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Posts: 90
| Alright, first off I know this topic has been discussed to death. I have spent hours looking back on posts about making fluorocarbon leaders, but I haven't seen anyone have the problem I have.
I'm tying leaders with 130lb hi-seas fluorocarbon and I am having trouble with knots cinching and staying cinched. I have tried every knot I have found:
Lee tauchens knot (centuri knot)
Nail knot with loop (knot stealth tackle uses)
More that I can't think of right now.
I just can't get them to cinch properly. The centuri knot cinches okay, but still not in perfect order like how lee tauchens diagram shows. The Nail knot with loop doesn't even cinch at all, stealth tackle must have some machine that helps them pull the cinches into place, because there is no way some can pull it by hand. At least with me.
I'm just curious, does anyone else have this problem with 130lb Fluorocarbon? If not, what knot are you using? I would prefer to have a knot that leaves a small loop in the end so I can replace snaps as needed and not have to throw away the entire leader.
Thanks in advance! |
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Posts: 379
Location: Thief River Falls MN | You try the crawford knot? Works pretty good with the heavy stuff
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1ay4OcifxI0 |
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Posts: 90
| looks like a solid knot, but it doesn't leave a loop.
Has anyone used the du-bro nail knotter tool? Looks like a tool that would make my life a lot easier. |
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Posts: 1352
Location: E. Tenn | How 'bout this one?
(Best-Knot-Fluorocarbon-Braid.jpg)
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 Best-Knot-Fluorocarbon-Braid.jpg (74KB - 3552 downloads)
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Posts: 90
| miket55 - 9/1/2014 5:03 PM
How 'bout this one?
I tried a uni knot originally, didn't work out so well. Line is way too thick to make a proper uni knot. I just bought the du-bro nail knotter, so I'll see how that works out. If all else fails, I will use the big game loop and double crimp the tag ends. |
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Posts: 134
| I use a du-bro nail knot tool and it works great. I down scaled and use 80 lb. floro. I've never had it brake or bitten thru yet. The knot is a lot smaller with the 80 lb. I use the same poundage for homemade sucker harnesses and have experienced no problems. |
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Posts: 756
| Simply 4 wrap clinch knot, lube with saliva and pull until 3/4th tight, apply five minute epoxy and pull it tight. Will NEVER come undone if done properly... |
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Posts: 90
| Mojo1269 - 9/1/2014 8:24 PM
Simply 4 wrap clinch knot, lube with saliva and pull until 3/4th tight, apply five minute epoxy and pull it tight. Will NEVER come undone if done properly...
so before you apply the 5 minute epoxy, the knot is only 3/4 cinched. After applying the epoxy you cinch it down the rest of the way and the epoxy holds it in place?
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Posts: 379
Location: Thief River Falls MN | I guess I have never had a piece of fluoro that outlasted a snap... If you are gonna be replacing a wore out snap why not replace the whole leader :o. If you tighten knot up first and dont jam it down on snap you should be able to weasle it back up if you are so inclined to replace a snap.
I use Jinkai sleeves and crimp only, easy to replace staylocs if necessary. Works great with 130#. |
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Posts: 1352
Location: E. Tenn | ImpactFishing - 9/1/2014 6:24 PM
miket55 - 9/1/2014 5:03 PM
How 'bout this one?
I tried a uni knot originally, didn't work out so well. Line is way too thick to make a proper uni knot. I just bought the du-bro nail knotter, so I'll see how that works out. If all else fails, I will use the big game loop and double crimp the tag ends.
It seems as if your issue was with cinching knots, so I threw that one out there since it cinches in two steps... first the knot then the loop. Passing the line throught the eye twice is some additional peace of mind as well.. All in all it works out pretty well for me, and my dexterity leaves a lot to be desired..  |
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Posts: 81
Location: Toronto, Ontario | Perfection Loop knot.....easy to tie, cinches down well (lube it up!) and the loop looks good and lays flat. |
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Posts: 1297
Location: Walker, MN | I have had good luck with this knot up to 80# but have not tried it with 130#...I just crimp the heavy stuff. It might work though.
http://www.intheriffle.com/fishing-videos/knots/figure-eight-tarpon...
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Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | First off, I think 130# is overkill and unnecessary...Second, I put a lot of time on the water and my leaders take a beating and I never use anything over 100# with 80# being my preferred choice.
Materials I use:
-250# Duo Lock SS Snaps
-300# SS Crane swivels (on the snap)
-80# to 100# Flouro - usually the least high price....Vicious, Vanish, Gamma, Trik Fish etc.
My leaders are primarily used for trolling, but I simply shorten them up for casting.
I first tie a Surgeon's perfection loop at the top end of the leader and also at the end of my line where they are attached. At the bottom, I tie my swivel and snap onto the fluorocarbon using a Palomar not. The reason I do not have a swivel at the top is so my lure knocker (in case of snags) does not get hung up at the top of my leaders which are usually 40+ inches long. All tag ends require a good pull with a pair of needle nose...Every connection is double lined strength and NEVER had one come un-done.
I have had leaders last me as long as two seasons.
Anything over 100# Flouro, I would crimp and I'm no fan of crimps. |
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Posts: 567
| 130lb flouro is NOT overkill. I've had a fish cut 100#, and I recommend at least 130#. Smaller may work trolling, but not casting baits like gliders and dawgs that fish tend to head shoot. Use a nail not and yes, buy the tool, it'll help. |
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Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | Fish "head shoot" trolling plugs as well...NEVER had one cut 80# or 100# leader material, not even in the net. And I've caught a couple over the years |
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Posts: 496
| I think with Gliders "saw it happen " is the fish hits the bait after it has kicked to the side and the fish grabs the bait and the line. Not a head hit but the line is in the fishes mouth .When you set the hook it pulls the line across the fishes teeth and can cut the leader . |
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Posts: 20281
Location: oswego, il | What slut said, the only leader I had cut was done this way. I suspect in that situation it would not matter what # flouro you were using. Lure floated up, was an erratic twitch bait. Its personal preference I have never had a failure with 100lb trolling. |
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Posts: 90
| I solved my problem with the nail knot. I just have to keep my loops in order when cinching down, which sounds easy but with 130# line it's a PITA. Takes a lot of practice and it is quite frustrating. |
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Posts: 333
Location: menasha wi 54952 | I use the Homer Rhode Loop Knot for flouro up to 180lb without any issues. Very easy to tie on the water. I only go back over the line once not twice like in the video. Make sure you lube the line before cinching down the knot.
http://www.netknots.com/fishing_knots/homer-rhode-loop-knot
MR |
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Posts: 622
Location: Seymour, WI | Can you guys post some pictures of what the different flourcarbon knots look like on your leaders?
I have been crimping mine, but I would like to learn a good knot that has a loop on the end and does not twist the flourcarbon up when you tie it. |
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Posts: 100
| NAIL KNOT!! |
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Posts: 90
| I would be very cautious of advice you get from any body that thinks 130 is overkill and 80 is fine.
You could bite through 80 with your own old dull teeth. Just because someone has NEVER had it happen certainly doesn't mean it wont.
I have had 100 cut through. And some Flouro is softer than others. Get soft 80lb and your asking for trouble.
No less than 130, Perfection Loop |
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Location: Canada | musky slut - 9/4/2014 11:52 AM
I think with Gliders "saw it happen " is the fish hits the bait after it has kicked to the side and the fish grabs the bait and the line. Not a head hit but the line is in the fishes mouth .When you set the hook it pulls the line across the fishes teeth and can cut the leader .
I saw this happen clearly to my flouro leader about 20' from the boat, sliced it clean. 100# or 80# seaguar, cant remember which. Fish mostly missed the jerkbait's head and clamped down across the leader. Leader sliced as fish turned one way and I set it the other. |
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Posts: 90
| Grass - 9/4/2014 12:57 PM
Can you guys post some pictures of what the different flourcarbon knots look like on your leaders?
I have been crimping mine, but I would like to learn a good knot that has a loop on the end and does not twist the flourcarbon up when you tie it.
Here is what my leader looks like. Nail knot, double crimped, and mushroomed tag end. Overkill but I am confident in it.
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leader.jpg (18KB - 504 downloads)
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Posts: 756
| ImpactFishing - 9/1/2014 9:51 PM
Mojo1269 - 9/1/2014 8:24 PM
Simply 4 wrap clinch knot, lube with saliva and pull until 3/4th tight, apply five minute epoxy and pull it tight. Will NEVER come undone if done properly...
so before you apply the 5 minute epoxy, the knot is only 3/4 cinched. After applying the epoxy you cinch it down the rest of the way and the epoxy holds it in place?
Correct
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Posts: 1150
Location: Minnesota. | ImpactFishing - 9/4/2014 8:15 PM Grass - 9/4/2014 12:57 PM
Can you guys post some pictures of what the different flourcarbon knots look like on your leaders?
I have been crimping mine, but I would like to learn a good knot that has a loop on the end and does not twist the flourcarbon up when you tie it. Here is what my leader looks like. Nail knot, double crimped, and mushroomed tag end. Overkill but I am confident in it.
Lucas, nice looking rig!!
"Overkill"? Nah, I don't think you can be too careful. We spend hours and hours, days and days, pitching for these guys, no sense in not taking every precaution.
For me, I'm using something of the same, no issues yet but I'm seriously thinking of going the knotted to twisted/melted wire and ring method like a friend uses.
Wire...I like wire!!
You'll do fine with that fix you have.
Jeremy.
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Posts: 532
| I find it so interesting how much effort goes into picking a snap or # test or knot used and how everyone has a way that is better than the last guy.
I am no better, i use 100# fluro, i feel i get better action out of my baits with the smaller lighter leader. I know i will get crap because what i use is "wrong" but I never had a leader break. When i snag up and cant get to it and i wrap a stick around my line and pull, either my hooks open or my main line breaks. Knowing my leader isnt the weak link is good enough for me. Yes i check my leader after every fish, if its nicked i replace it. Would any one keep fishing a 250# leader that has a nick in it?
I see no advantage to going heavier on leader material, if what your using is already not your weak link. But thats how i do it. |
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Posts: 286
Location: Eagan, MN | I'd like to ask a question for you knot tie'ers. What's wrong with crimping? It's what the saltwater guys do. Curious why folks tie up thick, heavy lb. test flouro. What is the benefit? I've never done it and wonder if I'm missing out on something.
Btw, I've had two muskies slice thru flouro...one on 80lb and one on 200lb. So far be it for me to say that thicker is better. Logic would say it is, but my real world experiences...not. I've settled on 150.
Brian |
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Posts: 567
| ShutUpNFish - 9/4/2014 8:13 AM
Fish "head shoot" trolling plugs as well...NEVER had one cut 80# or 100# leader material, not even in the net. And I've caught a couple over the years :-)
Let's hope you never loose one. I can tell you from experience it's a bad feeling. All I can say is education costs. Sin ce I swapped to heavier material I haven't lost any, but who knows. I have landed several nice fish over the years on 8lb line bass fishing, but that......well, it only took one fish to teach me..... |
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Posts: 2754
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | 80lb HiSeas flouro, the most tooth resistant fluorocarbon on the market. You might chip a tooth.... Nail knot/cinch knot tied with TieFast Saltwater (magnum) Knot Tyer and pulled very tight to the snap or swivel and a drop of Loctite superglue. Its not coming apart.
Warning! If you leave a loop the snap or swivel will wear the flouro carbon, and you will lose lures and fish, its simple physics.
Have fun!
Al |
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