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| I'm throwing this out here for discussion and consideration. If muskie anglers are serious about protecting the muskie resource, why then do you continue to use multiple treble hooks on lures? Crankbaits with 3 sets of trebles, plastics with 'gang-hooks' hanging all over, bucktails with more than 1 set of treble hooks. My experience has been the more hooks on a lure, the more damage done to the fish. Is it really ethical and moral to utilize lures(sucker-rigs too) with so many hooks? Some muskie anglers condemn, intimidate, threaten an angler who kills a legal muskie but then turn right around and use lures with way too many hooks. If we are serious about limiting damage/death to the fish, shouldn't we limit the number of hooks on a lure or bait? How about 2 sets of trebles on a crankbait or 2 sets of double hooks? How about eliminating sucker fishing completely, Minnesota is experimenting with hookless rigs for suckers, why? |
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| I do my best to release the fish healthy and think I am successful at it. That being said, I am out there to catch them and hooks are part of it. I do barbless for my safety not the fish. I am a catch and release fisherman, but "catch" is part of it. Ben |
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Posts: 182
| It would be great if people actually signed a comment like this. |
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Posts: 221
| Well, why don't we just ban musky fishing then? That's the point, right?
The lake I fish has been getting stocked for 20 years and isn't very big. It gets fished extremely hard all season. And I still manage to catch giant fish that barely have a scratch on them.
Catch & Release efforts are working. They aren't perfect, but it's working. And that's the point. |
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Posts: 619
| Some good points here...i agree w/ too many hooks...with a bucktail i will cut 1 prong off each treble.. no reason for that many hooks and gives me alot better chance if the fish swallows.
Now with a rubber bait - alot of times they barely get hooked so having 2 full trebles is worth it.
Edited by Slow Rollin 10/4/2013 12:16 PM
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| Happy now? |
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Location: Minneapolis | I'd argue that minus the stress of being caught, fish that have just finished spawning, and river fish can be more beat up than one that has recently been poked by hooks. |
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| Did I say anything about banning muskie fishing? Curious then, why aren't you catching more fish that have been hooked previously? I have caught some pretty beat-up, scary looking fish, mouths totally disfigured, etc. all I'm sayin is, shouldn't we at least consider less can be more? |
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Posts: 8856
| Good points.
But I don't want to look at the #*^@ things. I want to CATCH them. Aside from ridding the lake of less desireable fish, they're not good for much else except catching for fun.
We could all take the hooks off our lures completely if we cared that much about not hurting them. But I suspect that the only reason people care about not hurting them is because they want to be able to go out and catch them more than one time. |
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Posts: 1220
| There was a great article in Midwest Outdoors a couple a weeks ago where the author pointed out that musky anglers are often more prone to look up to the angler who is best at releasing fish safely than the one who maybe catches the most or the biggest. For me, I am really proud of both the quality and variety of release tools I have at the ready, including a cutter that will almost effortlessly cut through the biggest trebble in my box. I don't think (IMHO) that the hooks provide much of a problem if you are prepared to deal with them properly. Big nets, and tackle that avoids a needless prolonged battle along with good teaching about release is what's important. |
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Posts: 1000
| i like to pinch my barbs down w/ trebles.
For the record, switching to single hooks often leads to better hooksets (all fish). Two reasons:
1.pressure goes to one point and not spread across three or more
2. you dont have separate points working against each other.
How often do you lose fish on weedless spinnerbaits or big jigs?
i also like to file down barbs. easier release, less damage to the fish, and easier to get out of limbs.... |
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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Next Bend - 10/4/2013 12:01 PM
How about eliminating sucker fishing completely,
how about....not. |
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Posts: 720
| Who said we were serious about protecting musky?
I think we should all carry a small bat instead of a net. Hit those buggers until they come off. This is a stupid topic of conversation on this site. Guest its a fish. A fish that we spend thousands of dollars and countless hours to try and catch. Of coarse we want to protect these fish. If for only one reason and that's to catch another one just a little bit bigger. |
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| GREAT SUBJECT. It's like, do they make these websites to protect the future musky nuts? |
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Posts: 32952
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | It's like... no. And who's 'they'?
--- To the original question
Elimination of hooks on a lure may or may not do anything to protect the next one or twenty fish that hit it. Fewer hooks may actually allow for deeper hooking of the fish (some folks actually claim a higher hook up ratio taking a treble OFF a crankbait), as may a perfectly honed barbless 7/0 hook. Single hooks are not an answer either, I have killed a few with spinnerbaits and jigs, guaranteed.
A balance of fishing to catch the Muskies and as careful handling as one can accomplish is a good idea. is it ethical to use any legal method to CPR a muskie? Yes, without question.
bringing morality into the equation...that's a stretch. These are fish, not little children. |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | I have been doing a few of these things for years, as much for a clean release as for my own safety. I remove or put a single hook on most of my big minnow baits since the rear hook usually just ends up in a fishes eye, back, net, or my hand. I put a single with a grub on there and haven't noticed a difference in hook-ups. I also go barbless and put a single hook on most of my Cowgirls that I used nightfishing. Again as much for my own safety as the fishes.
As far as MN experimenting with hookless sucker rigs; Larry Dahlberg is the one that has been trailblazing that one (although others have been doing it for quite a while a well, maybe before Larry). As far as I know the MN DNR nor MI/MMPA doesn't have any agenda to push for that, just responsible sucker fishing is all (quickstrikes, fast hook-sets, etc). |
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Posts: 32952
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | D Bahlmann - 10/4/2013 12:23 PM
Did I say anything about banning muskie fishing? Curious then, why aren't you catching more fish that have been hooked previously? I have caught some pretty beat-up, scary looking fish, mouths totally disfigured, etc. all I'm sayin is, shouldn't we at least consider less can be more?
Actually, you inferred it, yes. If you can't see that, you need to take a closer look at your first post.
'Curious then, why aren't you catching more fish that have been hooked previously? '
As a community, we are. In fact, on many lakes, a HUGE percentage of the adult fish have been caught and released before.
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | To further what Steve has said, in the MN metro most fish have been caught at least 1x a year during their adult life and some many times each year by the numbers.
Over the last decade angler ethics, new technology as well as scientific data have greatly increased a muskie anglers ability for a successful release. I would guess that we're having a factor of 5x+ better releases then a decade ago! |
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Posts: 20269
Location: oswego, il | Who is to say how that beat up musky was hooked? Maybe it was more about the person who caught it and their methods of releasing the fish and their tools? I use big baits with 3 trebles. I make no apology for it. I am after muskies and trying to catch them. I sucker fish too, no apologia being made here either. Usually put 2 trebles on the sucker. Never gut hooked one. I have the right tools and take every precaution when releasing fish. That's way more important than the things you suggest. |
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Posts: 160
| the fish get really messed up from trollers. look at a lot of fish mouths and deformed jaws on clair. |
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Posts: 32952
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Uhhh, no, that's too broad a statement and isn't at all accurate. They get messed up by being caught and sometimes mishandled. |
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Posts: 720
| There is one thing I would like to add to Todd's post if I may. Having the right tools is essential for a good release. We can all agree on that. But it doesn't mean a thing if you don't have them accessible. I've been guilty of this myself so I'm not calling anyone out here. But having the tools in the boat is one thing. However if the tools you need to make that release are within arms reach anywhere in the boat, well that is what is really preferred.
Which leads me to my question to the guest that started this thread. If you're that concerned about these fish than may I assume that all of the musky you catch are being water released without pictures? How many pictures of mid thirty inch fish have you taken? My point being you are providing a very slippery slope in which to walk on. I'm not suggesting you are wrong in your thoughts. But maybe just a tad bit of a hypocrite. Hooks are sharp, lactic acid is bad and time out of the water will seal their fate. But with proper tools, having them available and keeping the fish in the water as much as possible more often than not a release will be successful. Are fish going to die anyway. Absolutely, but if ever gets to the point where that means more to me than having the equipment/effort that goes into releasing a fish successfully. Then its time to find a new sport.
Edited by Hunter4 10/4/2013 4:19 PM
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Posts: 390
| It is my honest opinion that more are hurt/killed/damaged during pictures and release than by hooks. I feel that incorrect use of a jaw vice or whatever you call them causes many of these issues. It drives me crazy to see an angler pick up 20+ lbs of fish by its jaw and expect it to be fine. Now i know the physiology is not the same but try picking your friend up by the jaw... |
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| Treats...honest question here, though a little off topic: Is the hookless sucker thing a good idea? I just think that it puts an awful lot of strain on the internal organs ie...prolapse! To the original question: I want to protect them for the purpose of catching them! I see and catch many fish with hook damage that are thriving! |
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Posts: 1530
| well guys. my first musky was q1956. we ate it amongst hundreds of others.
fast forward. we have become fishing,s ambassadors. musky guys all 18 per-cent of ud spend more time careing. that's not wrong.i can remember thousands of walleyes/perch that never went any further then the dinner table.
just fish have fun.
oh ya do you realize we have more muskies now then in 56. |
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| you got some good point.i have seen a lots of video about ''quick''strike rig and i have never seen a single anglers setting the hook instantaneously right after the bite,its always the same long awaiting time |
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Posts: 1358
Location: Lake "y" cause lake"x" got over fished | Great topic - Now these are the types of topics/debates that I love to read on this forum. To be able to read and see that almost everyone is on the exact same page with their techniques and how much they DO care about releasing the fish safely. Sometime fish die, (a lot of the time) it was not intentional. And trust me, for the ones that do die unintentionally - that angler has some feelings about what they think they may be able to do better next time, and sometimes even feel bad for what had just occurred.
I think we are going in the right direction as anglers and as conservationist. Every bad experience we have just teaches us a lesson for the next time. Sometimes bad things have to happen (death of a fish) in order to learn and grow from it. I'm sure in the future there will be new advice and advances that help us to be better anglers and conservationist. But until then we all just try to do our best to catch as many as we can and release most, if not all of them safely. Just my 2cents
Edited by FAT-SKI 10/4/2013 5:35 PM
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Posts: 791
Location: WI | I agree with Todd and hunter. It is way to often that is see people with too small of a net fishing for Muskies. Recently I watched a show on St Claire Muskies and the guide would lift the fish up in the net, lay it on the floor of the boat, and use a jaw grip to hold the fish! Talk about delayed mortality! Even a 30 inch fish should not be lifted by a one inch spot on its jaw. This is where the problem lies. Poor handling and release. Get your self a big net proper hook removal pliers and hook cutters. Don't drop the fish on the floor of your boat and don't drag the fish backwards through waves and you will be fine. I have never to my knowledge killed a fish. Again I understand delayed mortality but with care 99% of your fish should be fine.
Many of us enjoy hunting deer and ducks and for that matter nearly every thing that roams this earth. I can't think of many creatures on this earth that are sought after and not killed as trophies so catch and release is a HUGE step towards preservation. Instead of dwelling on hooks spend your time informing people about catch and proper release. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | It's a fish. The sun will rise in the morning, even if a musky dies. |
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Posts: 1416
Location: oconomowoc, wi | YES. next question. |
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