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Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | The NYSDEC wants to move to a Uniform Season for Muskies on Great Lakes Waters.Presently the Upper Niagara River & Lake Erie close on Nov 30th and the Lower Niagara River,Lake Ontario & St.Lawrence River close on Dec 15th.NYSDEC Region 6 Steve Lapan is thinking of changing the season to close Nov 30th for all NY Great Lakes Waters.This will mean no more chance at the Big Giant Muskies that are caught in the 15 days of December and extra pressure on Ontario portions of Great Lakes Waters that are open till December 15th.Please email NYSDEC Region 6 Steve Lapan and voice your opinion on how cold water periods there is little to no stress on muskies being handled with care and that if NY Waters are closed on November 30th that you will have to take your Tourist Dollars to other waters that are open till December 15th.Also closing NY Great Lakes Waters on Nov 30th will have more fishermen headed to the Detroit River,St. Claire & Green Bay adding more pressure on those fisheries until Dec 15th!
Send emails to [email protected]
Capt. Larry D. Jones
NY M.I. Chapter 69 Reg. Rep
Edited by LarryJones 2/23/2013 11:49 AM
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Minnesota waters close on Dec. 1
Not a big deal plus it protects the Muskies an extra 15 days against the Meat Harvesters in their pontoons.
Jerome |
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Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | Minnisota is much colder in November then we are in NY state,the waters here have been getting warmer every year to the point where most of the migratory big giant muskies from the Great Lakes do not move into the rivers until December.The only fishermen out the 15 days of December are diehardt muskie fishermen that know how to safely handle the big girl's with good less stressed release in cooler water temps. |
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| Top H2O - 2/23/2013 12:19 PM
Minnesota waters close on Dec. 1
Not a big deal plus it protects the Muskies an extra 15 days against the Meat Harvesters in their pontoons.
Jerome
Applying "Protect the muskies from the meat hunter" logic to this scenario would be a shame to say the least. These are fall trophy waters that more often than not have very difficult conditions late season. Big waters and high winds can leave few fishible days some years and the fish in question are just beginning to move in to targetable waters as temps begin to drop into there preferred range mid Nov. These are fish that spend their lives roaming the open water of the great lakes and may never see a musky bait during our summer seasons. They are untouched, unpressured giants and it would be a waste of an amazing fishery to close the season before they even show up. |
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Location: new richmond, wi. & isle, mn | Many years you could fish open water into December in the metro. TopH20 if you're scared of meat harvesters why even have an open season? Muskie season been shrinking my whole life. Now you have more people "pike" fishing in may and now in December when they can. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | jchiggins - 2/23/2013 12:49 PM
Many years you could fish open water into December in the metro. TopH20 if you're scared of meat harvesters why even have an open season? Muskie season been shrinking my whole life. Now you have more people "pike" fishing in may and now in December when they can.
Why do you guys think that the NY. DNR are considering closing muskie season 15 days early ?
I'll tell you why. it's because they want to protect those giant muskies from:
1) meat eaters
2) delayed mortality
3) and to keep these giants in the system for their eggs
What other reasons would the NYDNR have to shorten the season other than to Protect the Muskies
Don't tell me there aren't any people fishing out there looking to KEEP one or two of those fall fatties.
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| I couldn't agree more with the above comment about wasting the fishery. Actually I would favor moving the entire season in our glorious state to December 15th and unifying it that way. All the inland lakes that have muskies are stocked and do not have natural reproduction occurring.... On Lake Erie and the upper niagara river we stop fishing the American side after November but continue to fish a few feet away on the Canadian side through the 15th anyways...... And this was a crazy year for fishable weather, but most years it's all but impossible to fish in December. So what's the difference? They should be spending their time improving our outdoor opportunity not reducing it.
Edited by bryantukkah 2/23/2013 1:40 PM
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| Top H2O - 2/23/2013 2:32 PM
jchiggins - 2/23/2013 12:49 PM
Many years you could fish open water into December in the metro. TopH20 if you're scared of meat harvesters why even have an open season? Muskie season been shrinking my whole life. Now you have more people "pike" fishing in may and now in December when they can.
Why do you guys think that the NY. DNR are considering closing muskie season 15 days early ?
I'll tell you why. it's because they want to protect those giant muskies from:
1 ) meat eaters
2 ) delayed mortality
3 ) and to keep these giants in the system for their eggs
What other reasons would the NYDNR have to shorten the season other than to Protect the Muskies
Don't tell me there aren't any people fishing out there looking to KEEP one or two of those fall fatties.
Jerome
Yeah, those guys are down fishing off concrete piers in the city.... They could care less if there's a season or not!!! They don't know what the size limit is or when the season opens or if there even is a size limit or a season for that matter!!! They will keep anything. Who are we kidding here? |
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Location: new richmond, wi. & isle, mn | Fifteen days now fifteen days later. Why not make it October first. Careful for what you wish for. The tree hugger attitude will have them protected with a closed season for our grandchildren. H20 I understand what you're saying about harvest. But is a fifty inch female in July less important to the fishery then a fifty full of eggs in December. I think not. Let's get back to pushing a size limit issue. Let's not cut off our noses to spite our face. |
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| jchiggins - 2/23/2013 2:46 PM
Fifteen days now fifteen days later. Why not make it October first. Careful for what you wish for. The tree hugger attitude will have them protected with a closed season for our grandchildren. H20 I understand what you're saying about harvest. But is a fifty inch female in July less important to the fishery then a fifty full of eggs in December. I think not. Let's get back to pushing a size limit issue. Let's not cut off our noses to spite our face.
When exactly these fish are caught is not the issue here... It's that those fish aren't around or catchable to the masses all year. Only when the water temp drops and the bait moves into the rivers are those big "egg laden" fish even there for the taking. Hardly anyone is out muskie fishing the open waters of Lake Erie and Ontario in July. Guys are in fact fishing the rivers in July as they are in December. What h2o is saying is that by closing the season in November, the possibility of seeing one of those huge ones we're talking about here is far less... In essence wasting the fishery. The size limits here aren't an issue either.... 48 inches in the rivers and ontario and 54 inches in the buffalo harbor Lake Erie. And like I just said anyone who is keeping fish probably doesn't care what the regs are anyways... Kind of like gun control all you're doing is taking away from people like you and me that obey the law because criminals here or there aren't going to stop breaking laws because you tightened one here or there. |
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| Let's also not forget the imbalance caused by the NY side closing early. Currently waters on the Ontario side close Dec 15th. Cutting a waterway in half down the center just pushes fisherman to fish the open side and Ontario has no intentions of closing their season early. This is the case currently on the Niagara, after Nov 30th the east side of the river closes while the west side remains open to fish until December 15th. Sounds pretty silly to me. |
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| this is a toss up for me Larry, i don't mind much either way. Theres the UNR and the harbor which I don't think would matter if the season stayed open until the 15th and then there is the st. lawrence...I certainly don't think a Nov. 30 ender would hurt that fishery.
The St. Lawrence populations aren't exactly in great shape in that area regardless of the pics everyone sees of big girls being caught out of there. Its possible those fish are a sub-sample of the very small population of spawning females that come in from the lake to spawn and are crucial to that fishery. Larry I will agree the die hards in those weeks are probably excellent handlers but you and I have both seen the videos of very poorly handled big fish from a well-known clayton charter boat that shall remain unnamed...
Ideally it'd be nice to have one without the other but thats not how it goes, the less ink the DEC has to pay for to define the NYS muskie season is the way they'll go!
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Location: Eastern Ontario | 80% of the Americans are on the Canadian side of the Larry in Dec anyway. It is not crowded you can't fish out there in Dec in a 16 foot open boat ( at least if your reasonably sane ). I under stand there is going to be a big push checking American boats for licences and paperwork and checking the many American guides for work permits.
Edited by horsehunter 2/23/2013 2:21 PM
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Location: new richmond, wi. & isle, mn | bryantukkah - 2/23/2013 2:04 PM
jchiggins - 2/23/2013 2:46 PM
Fifteen days now fifteen days later. Why not make it October first. Careful for what you wish for. The tree hugger attitude will have them protected with a closed season for our grandchildren. H20 I understand what you're saying about harvest. But is a fifty inch female in July less important to the fishery then a fifty full of eggs in December. I think not. Let's get back to pushing a size limit issue. Let's not cut off our noses to spite our face.
When exactly these fish are caught is not the issue here... It's that those fish aren't around or catchable to the masses all year. Only when the water temp drops and the bait moves into the rivers are those big "egg laden" fish even there for the taking. Hardly anyone is out muskie fishing the open waters of Lake Erie and Ontario in July. Guys are in fact fishing the rivers in July as they are in December. What h2o is saying is that by closing the season in November, the possibility of seeing one of those huge ones we're talking about here is far less... In essence wasting the fishery. The size limits here aren't an issue either.... 48 inches in the rivers and ontario and 54 inches in the buffalo harbor Lake Erie. And like I just said anyone who is keeping fish probably doesn't care what the regs are anyways... Kind of like gun control all you're doing is taking away from people like you and me that obey the law because criminals here or there aren't going to stop breaking laws because you tightened one here or there. |
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Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | Lake Erie use to get down to 45 degrees water temp by the first couple weeks of November and the Buffalo Harbor would be a couple degees warmer.With the Lake having colder water temp then the Harbor the gizzard shad schools would move to that warmer water and the big muskies would follow the forage base in.Now the last 8 years Lake Erie has had no Ice at all or only partially frozen because the mean summer water temp is near 80 degrees.This has pushed the water cooldown to 45 degrees into December when the NY state waters are closed in Lake Erie & Upper Niagara River.Some of those big lake muskies do go down into the Upper Niagara River,but more go to the warm water discharge of the Huntly Power Station or Tonawanda Coke that are in NY waters that are closed.So everyone is fishing one peice of water between Strawberry Island and Canadian shore,stressing the same group of muskies.If the NY side were open the muskie fishing pressure would be spread out accross all the waters instead of one place.The 1st week of December up on the St.Lawrence River the surface water temp was 44 degees,the year before it was 34 degrees by the 1st week.So most of the giants moved in from Lake Ontario up there in December as well.The NYSDEC wants a Uniform Season,either Nov 30th or Dec 15th,to me it makes more sense to have Dec 15th the same as the Canadian waters spreading the fishing pressure accross all the waters.So it will come down to who the NSDEC Region 6 Office hears from,not much responce they will most likely go to Nov 30th accross the whole Great Lakes Waters of NY. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Larry, I understand what your saying and agree with you, but my question to you is:
Why does the NYDNR want to close the muskie season 15 days earlier ? Is it to protect the fish,?......Or is it a Political stance ?
Jerome |
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Location: Detroit River | Bad idea IMO. I definitely don't want more guys heading the Detroit River or LSC in December. There's already too many guys there now. |
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Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | Top H20, The NSDEC would find it easier to change the St.Lawrence River & Lake Ontario to Nov 30th because there are no musky clubs on the St.Lawrence River to put up any oposition.Here we have the NY M.I. Chapter 69 that is for Dec 15th and the NMA that has taken no offical position,even though the board is leaning toward Nov 30th,but maybe not the majority of the membership,we will find out at the March 5th NMA Meeting when the NYSDEC will be present talking about the issue.They are saying the 15 days of December will over stress the fish,but who is kidding who the 15 days of everyone fishing in one spot in Canadian waters is over stressing those fish,the fishing could be spread out through out the river stressing all the fish less. |
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| in reality ya cant have it both ways. buffalo harbour area has more trophy hunters then fish..there must be biological data and reasons. |
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Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | George,In the month of November in the Buffalo Harbor most days I'm the only boat on the water,on weekends might see a couple more boats.On Nov 12th it snowed 8" and then the wind blew 58 mph pushing the cold surface water to our end of the lake,this cooled the water down to 45 degrees outside the walls,with 48 degrees behind the walls.This brought in the gizzard shad schools and following big muskies.There were 15 muskies caught by 3 boats in 4 days,then the winds blew out of the NW and pushed the cooler water away and it became a dead sea again.There are no muskies in the Harbor in November anymore unless there is a wind induced water temprature change.The water temps don't get below 45 degrees until after November 30th,not many fishermen fish here anymore because they know this.So lets shutdown the St.Lawrence River on Nov 30th so we can save the muskies of the Buffalo Harbor that do not show by Nov 30th almost all of the time,so we can protect what is not here yet and over stress the Canadian portion of the Upper Niagara River with all the pressure in one little area instead of spreading the fishing pressure accross all the waters of both sides of the river.
Edited by LarryJones 2/24/2013 6:38 PM
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Maybe Ontario could close the non resident season Nov.30 ( not my idea but I like it ) |
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Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | The best you can hope for is NY to open all Great Lakes. Waters till Dec 15th to take a little pressure off Canadian Waters! |
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| living in an area that see,s pressure and plundering,is there data. larry i see your calling,but to evaluate whats the other,s data.. |
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| woodieb8 - 2/25/2013 7:10 AM
living in an area that see,s pressure and plundering,is there data. larry i see your calling,but to evaluate whats the other,s data..
There is data, most of which shows next to no natural reproduction in the harbor and that its an area of concern with pollution...the place is a sh*t yard. From listening to the guys who have been doing research out there for a while now its likely that the glory years of the harbor were just a period of high productivity that pumped out the big fish it did and over the years the ecosystem has been changing as it always does and with the spread of invasive zebras and gobies it's not nearly as productive anymore...there are still big fish in eastern lake erie just probably not in the harbor, no reason to go in there. |
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| living on st clair i have seen tremendous changes in my life.in the 1950,s-1980,s there was no invasives. then pollution,zebra/quagga mussels,the dramatic changes came. thats what my thoughts led to asking why a season change.larry i guess wants answers as he is a stakeholder in that region. i commend that.as i asked before data/studies are welcome before i could even evalue an opinion.i do know eco-systems weather patterns/invasive species all play major parts.
good thread for thought. |
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Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | That is why I have asked in the past for there to be shocking study for young of the year muskies in other parts of the Harbor like beetween SBH & Cargill Pier.There is also the possability that the muskies in Lake Erie are spawning near Port Colburne and Dunkirk where there is warm water discharge to bring in gizzard shad schools.They are spawning somewhere or there would not be 53 1/2" to 35" muskies present under the right water temps.All the older fish from the late 90's have been gone for sometime,new recuitment came from somewhere.If two boats can catch 15 muskies with many over 50" in 4 days and mark hundereds of fish mixed in with gizzard shad schools durring that time frame,there has to be a sizable amount olf fish still present.Yes,maybe they do not show in the Harbor anymore,but they do not show out in the lake infront of the walls unless the water temp gets below 46 degrees either.If you look back at the NMA Release Data you will see when ever the water temp was 46 degrees or under big muskies 50" or bigger were caught,the years that the surface water temp was 49 degrees or higher the last day olf November,No 50" Muskies Were Caught!The warming of Lake Erie has pushed the fishery into December and even then it might still be to warm of water to catch anything by Dec 15th.Lets quit kidding ourselfs,you can't catch what is not here because the forage base is not here for them to feed on until the water surface temps drop below 46 degrees.I have been recording muskies caught by water temp from the Buffalo Harbor since 1990,I'm on the water in November up there more then anyone else,most of the month of November my boat is the only one out.To keep the season closed to protect muskies that don't even show up in November most of the time ,so we can only fish canadian waters the 15 days of December and over stress those fish in UN2, when the pressure could be even accross both canadian & NY waters,is just not right!Those 15 days of December the wind can blow,the water can be brown or snow could fall and releasing muskies in higher oxygen colder waters is less stress,but you still have to be on the water to catch them,not many boats out,not much pressure,no impact on hurting the fishery! |
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Location: Muskegon Michigan | I have to agree with Captain Larry. Here in Michigan the east shore of Lake Michigan there is no closed season and there is no threat of pressure either. The few who would fish are brave indeed and with colder waters there is much less stress then during hot water months. Come on people we all know this stuff. I think the the entire st Lawrence should be open till the end of December or have no closed season like we do here. Asking for the 15th is not asking for much. You get my vote. Mike |
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Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | I also want everyone to know,I do not guide in December and do not plan to in the future. I however have been fishing muskies since 1975 and have had a couple muskies of the 50 lb class to the boat for a short visit and many muskies from 50" to 54".I live to fish just like most muskie fishermen,I would like the chance to catch that 60 lber,that posability is only going to happen late in the season in the cold water period.So are we so protective now that we are going to keep ourselves from ever having a chance to catch a giant muskie by fishing for them only when they are not here,because the time frame for those fish showing has moved later?The season should start on the 3rd Saturday in July and end on December 30th,a whole month to the right,the July start alone would do more for the fishery then any other move,except maybe if fishermen would avoid the high water temps of August in the Upper Niagara River in the highest stress time.
Edited by LarryJones 2/25/2013 9:32 AM
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Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | Steve Lapan from the NSDEC Office at Cape Vincent,NY just emailed me the locations for this years "State of Lake Ontario Meetings",one topic will be NY Great Lakes Muskie Season Changes.Go to a meeting ,listen and voice your opinion!
• Wednesday, March 6, 2013: 7:00 p.m. – 9:30 p.m. at the DEC Training Academy, 24 County Route 2A, Pulaski (the former “Portly Angler Motel”), Oswego County. The meeting is co-hosted by the Eastern Lake Ontario Salmon and Trout Association.
• Tuesday, March 12, 2013: 7:00 p.m. – 9:30 p.m. at the Carlson Auditorium, in the Chester F. Carlson Center for Imaging Science building (76-1125) on the Rochester Institute of Technology (RIT) campus, Rochester, Monroe County. The meeting is co-hosted by RIT and the Monroe County Fishery Advisory Board.
• Tuesday, March 19, 2013: 6:30 - 9:00 p.m. at the Cornell Cooperative Extension
Building, 4487 Lake Avenue, Lockport, Niagara County. The meeting is co-
hosted by Niagara County Cooperative Extension and the Niagara County Sportfishery Development Board
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| Larry is totally right in my opinion. The time of year we are talking about has almost no meat hunters out fishing when it's that cold plus it has probably the lowest mortality rate possible due to the colder water. Imagine how you would feel if the DNR came in and stopped fishing during your favorite waters best trophy fishing period? |
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