Posted 12/2/2012 9:04 PM (#601116) Subject: Fish for a Living
Posts: 572
Location: Maplewood, MN
As a college student, I am studying Fisheries and Wildlife for my major of choice. With that being said, there is no question that I see myself working in the outdoors in some shape or form. Lately I have been thinking about how I could possibly make a career out of fishing or hunting. I can see myself working with a tackle company, rod company, boat company, or even starting my own sort of business. What I would like to know is, how many of you actually make a decent living my working in the outdoors? How many of you started your own business? How did you get affiliated with this business? I am not looking for any jobs or anything like that, I simply want to know HOW you got started.
Posted 12/2/2012 9:12 PM (#601123 - in reply to #601116) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Been in the business one way or another since 1976. I'm co-owner here, and LOVE my job.
Go to the News tab on this page and read the Dave Landahl OutdoorsFIRST articles 'So You Want To Be A Pro Angler' from part one to part five. Good start in understanding what it takes.
Posted 12/2/2012 9:12 PM (#601124 - in reply to #601116) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
Posts: 1270
How many make a living working in the outdoors or in the outdoor industry? I would bet that for every one person actually making a living in the outdoors there are 10's if not hundreds of us making a living in the industry.
I generally recomend kids who are all crazy about the outdoors, like most of us were, to get a great education and a job that pays enough that they are able to afford doing what they want in the outdoors.
Posted 12/2/2012 10:08 PM (#601145 - in reply to #601124) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
Posts: 572
Location: Maplewood, MN
reelman - 12/2/2012 9:12 PM
I generally recomend kids who are all crazy about the outdoors, like most of us were, to get a great education and a job that pays enough that they are able to afford doing what they want in the outdoors.
I have been told this by a few people. I originally listened to it and was on track to major in physical therapy. After a full year of internal debate, I decided I wanted to work with what I enjoy most.
Thank you for the article, I will check that out soon. I have also read Mike Iaconelli's 'Fishing on the Edge,' a quality read for the bass enthusiast. It also gave me ideas of how to get into the industry.
Posted 12/2/2012 10:29 PM (#601150 - in reply to #601116) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
Posts: 2024
There are many degrees you could get that would enable you to work in an outdoors related field, while you build up your connections and skills to enable you to do it full-time. That's the pragmatic parent in me, but if you can afford to struggle until you "make" it I would say try to do what you really enjoy.
Posted 12/3/2012 2:03 AM (#601161 - in reply to #601124) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
Posts: 8773
reelman - 12/2/2012 9:12 PM
How many make a living working in the outdoors or in the outdoor industry? I would bet that for every one person actually making a living in the outdoors there are 10's if not hundreds of us making a living in the industry.
I generally recomend kids who are all crazy about the outdoors, like most of us were, to get a great education and a job that pays enough that they are able to afford doing what they want in the outdoors.
And that's advice that nobody wants to hear...
If you want to make a career out of fishing and the outdoors, you best bet is to make a career out of the most lucrative thing you can find, bust your butt at it, and save your money, so that one day you can quit, and pursue what you REALLY want to do, without having to rely on it to pay for a mortgage, car payments, insurance, kids, etc.
It's one of the great injustices of our time that nobody sits kids down and asks them how and where they want to live, what they want to have, and puts a dollar figure on that, saying "okay, here is what you will need to earn in a year, to obtain those things. And here is what you can expect to earn if you pursue your "passions" in life."
For some, the dollar amounts are secondary. For some, the ability to "live the dream" is worth far more than stability, or security, or a house or kids, or a wife.
But for most, the revelation comes one day when they want to get married, buy a house, start a family, buy a car, put kids through college, or not have to work until you are 75...
"the best way to have pursued the things I really love would have been not to try to make a living at them, and rathter make a lot of money doing something else, so I would no longer have to spend my life trying to make a living, and be free to dedicate my time to my passions..."
If you want to spend you time fishing? Figure out how to make a lot of money so you CAN.
Posted 12/3/2012 7:05 AM (#601173 - in reply to #601116) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
Posts: 2011
get your masters and be a college professor, teach fisheries and wildlife. Have your summers off to fish or own a business (different than being self-employed) and have the right pieces in place, allowing you to leave for extended periods. It takes a lot of time and money and getting in the "industry" is most likely going to give you very little of both.
Edited by IAJustin 12/3/2012 7:59 AM
Simple
Posted 12/3/2012 8:44 AM (#601184 - in reply to #601116) Subject: RE: Fish for a Living
Or you could simply move to Alaska,where almost everyday can be a outdoor adventure for real. There you can be as safe or as sorry as you allow yourself to be.you can have all the normal things there along with true wilderness. One piece of advice marry before you go with a adventurous and hardy wife.different world there.truly hope this gives you another option!
Posted 12/3/2012 8:59 AM (#601190 - in reply to #601116) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert
Do you want to work in fisheries or do you want to fish and/or own a tackle company or something similar. If it is the latter, I'd suggest switching majors to a business major and pursue that degree of a fisheries degree. If you want to work on the natural resources side of things then you are in the right degree. Having a fisheries degree can be beneficial for a guide, but it isn't crucial. I believe Chad Cain received a fisheries degree, but the majority of guides out there don't have or need a degree like that.
If you are pursuing fisheries, remember that when you start working with fish on a regular basis it quickly becomes a job. I do a lot of work with trout here in Utah. Right now, you couldn't pay me to go fishing for trout. Ok, that isn't quite true, I do sometimes get paid to go fish for trout. But when it comes to the weekend or days off I have no desire to go trout fishing. I still love to fish, but when you choose something you really love to do as a job sometimes it becomes just that, a job. Perhaps it would be different for me if I were working with warm water species more often, but out here we don't have a ton. Also, if it is the fisheries field you are pursuing don't expect to get rich.
Posted 12/3/2012 9:05 AM (#601191 - in reply to #601116) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
There are lots of great jobs in the fishing and hunting industries, limited as are all industries by the economy at any one point in time. These days, people with an education including business/communications/media with a good grasp of marketing and/or sales and a personal dedication to and understanding of the business behind the sport are the folks finding work. Learning the fundamentals in this business isn't any different than deciding to be a (pick a career).
State DNR jobs are tough to find in this economy as are Federal positions. That will, of course, change as the economy comes back and revenue begins to flow again. Pointer's post above comes from experience, my son works for the WIDNR and his experience and advice would be similar.
If you actually want to 'fish or hunt for a living', then marketing, sales, communication skills, and media need to be your other selections, which will allow you to work your way into that position. If you, as you stated, want to go to work for a company that builds and sells products related to the sports you love, the same is true.
Guest
Posted 12/3/2012 10:30 AM (#601218 - in reply to #601173) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
I agree w/ what a previous poster stated, in that you should really focus on getting a good educational background to fall back on. Find a career path that would entitle you to still enjoy the outdoors in your free time. High school teacher, college professor, self-employed professional etc.
Personally, I'm 28 and really enjoy my job duties. It's in finance/wealth management and pretty flexible, so I can schedule a week off from time-to-time to go up to the northwoods. I just bought a cabin on the Turtle Flambeau Flowage in Mercer, WI and am going to get up there about 6-8 times a year to fish. I'll probably get into a couple musky tournys, too.
Basically, what I'm suggesting is not to put all your eggs in one basket. Many of us love the outdoors but we need to have a stable living first and foremost. If you venture down the right path, you can have both. Or if you're lucky enough to find a profession in the fishing industry, and it offers everything you need while still being enjoyable on a daily basis, many will be envious of you.
Posted 12/3/2012 4:31 PM (#601301 - in reply to #601116) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek
Here's the deal, if you work in the "industry", you won't have much time to fish, (nobody wants to hire a guy who spends all his time hunting and fishing, that ain't productive) but you'll make decent money and get some benefits. If you work outdoors, (guiding, I assume) hunt and fish to your heart's content (although it will be work, and you likely won't enjoy it as much) and you'll make less and have no benefits.
I agree with simple above, go to Alaska for a summer. Get a job taking rich people down rivers for salmon and trouts and whatnot. See what you think. 80% washout, 20% never leave or come home wanting to guide for the rest of their lives.
Posted 12/3/2012 9:54 PM (#601363 - in reply to #601116) Subject: RE: Fish for a Living
Regardless of what area of study you choose, the best advise I can give you is to network. Very few people have the clarity to understand exactly what it is they want to do and how to get there. You will always need help along the way from other people and you never know who those people are going to be. Building relationships is key and is a trait that is important to work at so it becomes natural.
Start building your network of contacts now with professors, people you meet in college, parents of friends in college, peole you meet in casual settings like a fishing outing and at fishing expos. Trade contact information with them and store it in your address book on your computer. Be sure to get their email adress, facebook if applicable, phone number. Then in your "notes" section of your adress book be sure to jot down a few things you know about them; occupation, interests, familly status, etc. Very important to store it electronically so you will have it easily accesible for years to come. Most importantly drop some of them a note now and then so they rember you. Doesn't have to be anything big, just a quick note like "Hey, just drove through your hometown over the weekend on a fishing trip...hope all is well!" Simple way to stay connected and keep your name current.
The old adage that it is not what you know, but who you know is important to remember. You will be surprised as you may get a call someday from a contact who has a job opportunity for you or maybe is looking for a fishing partner for a trip. Keep in mind just as you're building your contacts they may be as well....so make a good impression by being friendly and just being yourself. I can assure you this is never a waste of time and you will develop some good friendships along the way.
Guest
Posted 12/4/2012 12:59 PM (#601433 - in reply to #601116) Subject: RE: Fish for a Living
The guys that get to fish a lot...
Teachers
Firemen
Dentists
...basically, guys that make at least a reasonable income that also have time to fish.
If you walk around a fishing show, most of the guys you see "working" aren't making a majority of their income from the fishing industry. Most of them are doing it as a second "fun" job, or are basically doing it for fun (maybe they get their expenses covered and get some free baits). Just ask them!
Busy guides work crazy hard for very little money, both on and off the water, and spend most of their time on the removing backlashes, retrieving snags, and generally killing himself to help and unskilled angler enjoy himself so that he'll leave a decent tip at the end of the day.
Whether we're talking guides or tackle manufacturers, the vast majority of guys come into the industry for 5 years or so. After that period, they head for greener pastures by choice or because they have to financially. Find guys that have 20+ years in the industry and ask them how much money they make, what they do to get by, and how much they like their jobs. Also ask them how many of the guys they started with in the industry are still around. Many of them will tell you they like their job and have no regrets, but you have to ask yourself if you have the same motivation and would be willing to make the same sacrifices they did.
There's a reason you keep getting the advice that you should get a good job that pays you well enough and gives you enough free time to pursue your outdoor interests. If you don't, there's a very high chance that you'll look back 5-7 years from now and wish you had.
Posted 12/4/2012 1:21 PM (#601436 - in reply to #601433) Subject: RE: Fish for a Living
Posts: 473
Go to college and get a good education met a nice girl who lands a good job and doesnt mind you fishing all the time, put a ring on her finger done!
seriously though good luck
Posted 12/4/2012 1:33 PM (#601437 - in reply to #601116) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
Posts: 255
From a current business owner. If you start a business that you love you will never work another day in your life. But, you will also make less money and you will work more hours than you ever have in your life to make it successful
Posted 12/4/2012 1:38 PM (#601438 - in reply to #601437) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
Posts: 8773
Don't make your hobby your job. It becomes work. And then what will you do for fun to get away from work? What job you get really doesn't matter. Spend half of what you earn. Save the rest. Retire Early. Go fishing.
Posted 12/4/2012 2:46 PM (#601459 - in reply to #601437) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
Posts: 2011
Musky53 - 12/4/2012 1:33 PM
From a current business owner. If you start a business that you love you will never work another day in your life. But, you will also make less money and you will work more hours than you ever have in your life to make it successful
I don't agree with your last sentence. I know dozens of successful business owners and money and time is rarely an issue. Now if you want to be self-employed I know those people as well...they fish and hunt very little.
Posted 12/4/2012 2:50 PM (#601460 - in reply to #601116) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
Posts: 8773
Owning a business doesn't take great amounts of time or money. Starting a business, and building that business takes great amonts of time and money. Once it's running and successful, and you have others employed to do all of the work and manage the day to day operations, THEN you can fish.
Posted 12/4/2012 3:17 PM (#601466 - in reply to #601460) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
Posts: 980
im in the exact position as you muskiefever and the best advice, or thought to consider, i received from my school advisor is to make sure that if you do decide to work "in the field" (i quote that since it is a general statement that can mean you're doing one of many things involved with the outdoors) to make sure it won't go from being a passion to being a job or inconvenience...just like esoxaddict said.
if you spend numerous days working very hard emptying fish out of trap nets, netting fish during electrofishing or seining surveys, dissecting fish in a lab, etc....just make sure on your days off you're still going to want to go fishing and not be fished out
Posted 12/4/2012 3:29 PM (#601467 - in reply to #601116) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
Posts: 255
"I don't agree with your last sentence. I know dozens of successful business owners and money and time is rarely an issue."
Guaranteed they put in more hours than 9 to 5 to make it successful and the big money does not come right away. If they tell you they always worked 9-5 and started making tons of money right away, they are lying.
Posted 12/4/2012 3:39 PM (#601470 - in reply to #601466) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert
Ronix - 12/4/2012 2:17 PM
im in the exact position as you muskiefever and the best advice, or thought to consider, i received from my school advisor is to make sure that if you do decide to work "in the field" (i quote that since it is a general statement that can mean you're doing one of many things involved with the outdoors) to make sure it won't go from being a passion to being a job or inconvenience...just like esoxaddict said.
if you spend numerous days working very hard emptying fish out of trap nets, netting fish during electrofishing or seining surveys, dissecting fish in a lab, etc....just make sure on your days off you're still going to want to go fishing and not be fished out
This is correct. I suggest attempting to work with species that you don't have a large desire in fishing for. I work with trout for this very reason. If I worked with muskies, pike, walleye etc all the time it may take away some of the enjoyment when I'm not working.
However, this can also lead to developing new hobbies that you previously didn't think you'd enjoy much. I've gotten way more into duck hunting than I ever though I would since I've been working full time.
Posted 12/4/2012 3:41 PM (#601473 - in reply to #601116) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
Posts: 2011
This is not the forum to discuss business. But one last point: an idea, capital, and the right people is what makes a great business (in the simplest form). A great business owner doesn't have to have any of these 3 things, but they know how to leverage all of them. It doesn't take 60 hrs a week to start a business and if you think it does you don't own a business the business owns you.
Posted 12/4/2012 4:04 PM (#601477 - in reply to #601467) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
Posts: 661
Location: Sussex, NJ
My father has had his own radiator business for 35 years and he is self employed. He has worked a lot longer than 9-5 on on multiple occasions. He always had time to take me hunting and fishing by leaving work early or taking days off. However he had to work even harder to make up for that lost time. He has to make time to enjoy the outdoors
he cant just leave work anymore whenever he wants. Especially with this economy his business is struggling and he is 58 and cant retire anytime soon. Time and money did not come easy for him
Posted 12/4/2012 4:55 PM (#601485 - in reply to #601470) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
Posts: 2024
Pointerpride102 - 12/4/2012 3:39 PM
This is correct. I suggest attempting to work with species that you don't have a large desire in fishing for. I work with trout for this very reason. If I worked with muskies, pike, walleye etc all the time it may take away some of the enjoyment when I'm not working.
However, this can also lead to developing new hobbies that you previously didn't think you'd enjoy much. I've gotten way more into duck hunting than I ever though I would since I've been working full time.
Mike provides great advice here and above. I can also attest to the last sentence of the above first paragraph. That said, I feel that it was a blessing in disguise and have discovered my creative outlet through photography, which I am incredibly thankful for for a variety of reasons.
You sound somewhat confused, which is completely NORMAL. If you weren't a bit confused about your direction in life as a college student I'd be worried. More importantly, you have something that interests you, excites you, and drives you, which is invaluable. You cannot predict whether a career in fisheries management/research will lessen or ruin your passion for fishing or the outdoors; you'll just have to take a risk and see what happens.
I'm a believer that you can accomplish anything with the right attitude, desire, passion and dedication.Think about it, we're musky fisherman! We don't spend our time racking up numbers of bass and walleye, we put hours and hours into chasing a fish that we are happy even to catch a glimpse of. If you want anything bad enough you can get it.
All men are created equal.. some practise harder in pre-season - Emmitt Smith after winning the Superbowl.
Posted 12/4/2012 5:48 PM (#601494 - in reply to #601116) Subject: RE: Fish for a Living
Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn
I have some thoughts about this.
I know a few people who have been successful in the fishing industry (Doug Stange, Mark Windels, Pete Mainia, John Gillespie, Chad Cain, Greg and Paul Thorne, Greg Thomas, Crash Mullins, and many others). These guys have been successful in the fishing industry. Some are writers (very hard work), some have gotten into TV, you'll need a interesting personality, some are lure makers, lots of long hard hours of boring work, a few are guides, but have other things going for them that help with the bills. a few ran retail stores that worked because they put in very long hours and where knowledgeable. Most did a combination of all of the above. I also know a few manufacturers reps, who spend long hours trying to sell product, just like any other sales job. A few of these jobs will allow you to fish quite a bit others won't depending on your location. Very few of them will provide a real large income.
I too was a fishery major. I worked for a few years as a biologist for the MN DNR. The work was extremely interesting and I greatly enjoyed it. However, I felt that people who where setting the wage scales must have felt that if the work was this much fun the pay rate should be low. That was almost 50 years ago, but I have the feeling that the same feeling exists today. It always surprised me that most of biologists that I worked with didn't fish much. Working daily with fish didn't seem to lower my interest in fishing, may have even increased my desire.
Here's what I lucked into. When working for the MN DNR I happened to get stationed in Warroad on the LOTWs for two years. When the research project ended (we where working with catches of commercial fishermen and the mink industry) I ended up taking a job with a local window manufacturer, who through hard work became a major window manufacture. This allowed me spend 50 years fishing the LOTWs, evenings and weekends while working and full time after retirement. Nothing wrong with getting a job where the fishings good.
I got to experience many years of great fishing, and slowly got into writing, guiding, with a little TV tossed in. Never made much money with this, but met many great people along the way. It helps to be able to write a complete sentence that makes sense.
A fishery degree is a great start. Where it will lead is unknown, as it was with me.
Doug Johnson
Edited by dougj 12/4/2012 6:18 PM
Guest
Posted 12/4/2012 9:56 PM (#601562 - in reply to #601116) Subject: RE: Fish for a Living
Kid,
Go read j. sloan's post about giving up his company. That's about how it goes for most.
Posted 12/4/2012 10:05 PM (#601566 - in reply to #601485) Subject: Re: Fish for a Living
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert
esox50 - 12/4/2012 3:55 PM
Pointerpride102 - 12/4/2012 3:39 PM
This is correct. I suggest attempting to work with species that you don't have a large desire in fishing for. I work with trout for this very reason. If I worked with muskies, pike, walleye etc all the time it may take away some of the enjoyment when I'm not working.
However, this can also lead to developing new hobbies that you previously didn't think you'd enjoy much. I've gotten way more into duck hunting than I ever though I would since I've been working full time.
Mike provides great advice here and above. I can also attest to the last sentence of the above first paragraph. That said, I feel that it was a blessing in disguise and have discovered my creative outlet through photography, which I am incredibly thankful for for a variety of reasons.
You sound somewhat confused, which is completely NORMAL. If you weren't a bit confused about your direction in life as a college student I'd be worried. More importantly, you have something that interests you, excites you, and drives you, which is invaluable. You cannot predict whether a career in fisheries management/research will lessen or ruin your passion for fishing or the outdoors; you'll just have to take a risk and see what happens.
I would completely agree that it was a blessing in disguise to get more into waterfowl hunting. I still love to fish muskies and warm water species, but when fall rolls around it is all bird hunting. Like Sean, I also got more into photography. Haven't gone nuts with it yet but saving for my 1700 dollar lens.....
I recommend trying to grab an internship or something like it to get your foot in the door and to see if you would even like what fisheries work entails. You likely know a bit about what it is, but it is good to put in a full summer and see how you like it.
It is a fun career, PM me if you'd like to bounce more questions off someone.
Posted 12/4/2012 10:11 PM (#601569 - in reply to #601562) Subject: RE: Fish for a Living
Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Guest post above:
That's a very very tough portion of this business. Fishing TV and Video for consumer consumption by an independent company is a hard (crushing) business in any economy as a career and this one killed more than one good one.
That clearly isn't the only choice of a career in the fishing and hunting businesses.
Check out Chris Gilman as a shining example of how mixing a career in the business with fishing professionally can work. I make a living on the other side of the camera, opportunities there as well, and the pay ain't bad.
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or own a business (different than being self-employed) and have the right pieces in place, allowing you to leave for extended periods. It takes a lot of time and money and getting in the "industry" is most likely going to give you very little of both.
