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| Why do muskie fishermen have to take pictures of every fish they catch? I think by now we have all seen more then enough pictures of muskies. I would love to see that the only pics taken are those of someones first,biggest to date or simply a huge fish. Sure there will be exceptions to this but it makes me wonder if this is the biggest contributor to musky mortality.
Now I knopw alot of you do this very fast and in those cases it probably does not hurt the fish. Do we really need photos of every fish we catch? Most of the fish I catch I release boatside. I know it can't always be done but it sure is better for the fish.
I guess there is too many doubting thomases out there that we feel we need the proof. The fact is you know you caught and anyone with you does, that should be enough.
I hope that more anglers will start doing the water release and spare the fish any added stress. Why bring it inot the boat to measure it? Does it realy matter if it was 42 and not just 40. I would love to see more muskies clubs encourage wayer release.
Don Pfeiffer |
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| Personally, I don't take pics of MOST of the fish I catch....being that I pretty much try to stick to only taking pics of fish that break or come very close to the 40" mark. I would be willing to wager that a good percentage of muskie anglers that frequent this site at least TRY to handle their fish with the least amount of messing with the fish. One of the nice things about the internet is that information can be disseminated en mass....and it has seemed in the last 3 years that I've been on the muskie sites there has been alot of information on effective C&R techniques. But of course, more is always better.
Slamr
*not debatin with ya Don, you know that. |
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| Just like every other topic regarding catch and release, I must just say that as usual there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If done properly and swiftly, I don't see any harm in taking a picture of a fish that you catch. Should you take a photo of every fish that you catch? I don't think so, and I don't believe that there are any guys out there taking pics of every fish that they catch. I'm sure that we all do the basic "shake off' or something similar to it with most fish that we catch.
I enjoy taking and saving pics of the better fish that I catch, and I don't see anything wrong with it....if it's not a drawn out affair.
If you are prepared, the picture taking process shouldn't take long and shouldn't be overly stressful to the fish.
C&R, CPR, I don't care, just do it right and do it fast.
Beav |
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| I have a sort of rule of thumb myself. I only net a fish if it is 45"+ or it is hooked awkwardly where I can't hand land. I take pictures of those fish. Though I take every caution in the world, and am(not to boast) very quick at getting fish unhooked photoed and released, my hand landed fish always take off a little quicker. |
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| I am sure I am opening myself up to a word processor lashing, but here goes.
I used to take pictures of every fish over 30 inches, that was kind of a bench mark, Musky Inc. used, so I also used it. I have now graduated to pictures of only fish in the upper 30s if their nice and even not all of those.
But here’s the deal to get good pictures you need to take a lot of pictures, it’s just like anything else. The more you do of it the better you get at it. If you don’t ever take any pictures or only take a few pictures of a few fish a year, guess what the odds are that you will have good pictures of the queen when you catch her? Not very good, and the picture taking probably wont go as smooth as if you have had the practice with smaller, easier to manage fish.
This year I had problems with my camera, so I used a different camera and didn’t take as many pictures. On the last trip of the year I caught my biggest fish of the season and guess what, the pictures where not the best. Lesson learned. After switching to new equipment relearn the best way to do things.
In the world of Catch and Release all we have at the end of a day is awesome stories and if you want it, HOPEFULLY a nice picture, there is no reason you shouldn’t take one. The more you take the better you will get and the healthier the fish will be when you release them.
Like anything else in this sport, think about what you are doing and use common sense, if you think you might be harming the fish change the way you do things. These fish can be caught, tranquilized, put under the knife for a surgically implanted transmitter, revived and still live a long life, they can stand having their picture taken. Unless conditions dictate otherwise.
Nail A Pig!
Mike
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| Mike:
Get a digital camera. The pictures cost you nearly nothing and you can immediately see the results and adjust to take another if it doesn't come out right. You can get the cameras for as low as $150 for a 2 megapixal. You won't regret it. |
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| Don, I am not trying to start anything with you but I am a little confused.
On one hand you don't want anglers taking pictures of fish because of the "delayed mortality." On the other hand you are a very avid tourney angler with a ton of experience and anyone that has fished a tourney can tell you that the fish definately do not get water released. Seems somewhat like a double standard????
As for me, I take pictures of a lot of fish for the reasons that Mike Roberts described. I use common sense and if the water temps are high I will do a quick release. I took pictures of a low 30 inch fish this season that I caught because I had a young lady in the boat with me that wanted a picture of the fish.
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| I take pictures of alot of my fish. Not all of them. It's the only time they come out of the water. I only measer those I feel are close to or over 40". The rest I estimate, lord knows I catch enough of those. It's all about getting it done quickly. |
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| I don't photograph every fish I catch. When I do I take the pic while the fish is in the net as I often fish alone and don't have a system yet. NOT the greatest pics but something for me to look at once in a while and refresh the excitement. At this point in my fishing I am not concerned with a detailed measurement and a pic of me with the fish but that may change when I hook into a big one...I think if people do it responsibly then shouldn't be a problem. |
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| Mroberts, good you mention that. I do have a limit for that too though. I use an olympus stylus without zoom(the camera for a 179 dollar job, has one of the finest and durable lenses available). This camera has been with me for 5 years now. My partners and I have a good working knowledge of it as its a what you see is what you get camera like an SLR, no little boxes. My rule of thumb is, under 40, no pic. or a very quick one. 40-44"(or so) one pic or two if you want release shot. Bigger fish get two out of water quickies(if the angle wants it). I always(on fish 45"+) take a good quick horizontal first. If fish behaves and things are happening in seconds, I take another slightly more vertical(but belly weight still being supported) and slide her back in the drink. this can happen very fast, and does( I do keep all out of water stuff under 15 seconds if possible). |
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| Most of us would love, to catch our last muskie again, 5 years from now. The more we catch, the better we get, at releasing. When most of us started we not only talked of photos, but, we discussed how big it would have to be to throw on the wall. Some first timers want to put anything legal on the wall. The more fish, the more we realize, this is a trophy sport.When I'm alone I don't take the camera. When I fish with my son or with one of my other partners of 20 years experiance or more its only personal best pics. A new partner has to be in your picture book, but, also must be taught to give the rest, of those muskies a better chance to be caught 5 years from now. Take the memories anyway you want them, just, leave the wall alone! |
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| Dandy Don
I've got to disagree with you on this one. Photos are lifetime memories, first, last, biggest, whatever...not to mention bragging rights.
Just look at Musky Hunter, Esox Angler and Muskie Inc magizines photo section...check out the faces, those grins and smiles are what put me in my boat every morning. Clients look at thier picture 4 or 5 times before we get back in at the end of the day,,,That's what its all about.
I think most of us are very carefull with the fish and are doing our part to educate... That's it EDUCATE.
Let's work on little Johnny's dad who let's him kill a muskie caught while wayeye fishing...EDUCATE
I have great story from this past summer, Gregg Thomas, David, Mike Hulbert and I were at Herbie's (Andy Meyers Lodge). There we meet a young boy from Kansas who told us at supper he caught, killed and ate for lunch a 6 pound Smallie he caught off Herbie' dock upon his arrival NO photo just full bellies. Well to say the least we tried to educate...All the little guy could talk about was catching a muskie the next day and killing it..We continued to EDUCATE. The next morning at breakfast he still was in the muskie kill mode. We did more EDUCATING. That night at dinner the young man had a grin from EAR to EAR, he caught, photoied and RELEASED his first LEGAL muskie off a remote lake with lower size limits. He couldn't wait to tell us...and said he was going to catch him again in a few years.
He also shared with us his dissappointment with his dad for not EDUCATING and letting him eat such a beautiful Smallie. He then said I really don't like fish that much anyway.........
That little guy will be a conservationist the rest of his life. I don't DOG someone who keeps a trophy, hell I've killed enough in my pre-educated days, yes I too needed to be EDUCATED....
As lond as we continue to EDUCATE the muskies will be fine.
Let's don't get so carried away that people want us to stop fishing for them. Regardless of quick release or not, I'll bet most of us have killed a muskie without knowing it.
Educate---Educate---Educate
And that's what's great about this site..........
That's just one muskie man's opinion..Thanks for listening
Tony Grant www.kymuskie.com www.muskiesup north.com
MuskieFirst Southern Field Editor |
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| Personally it depends on the situation. If its the first fish of the year and its 36" and your with a buddy and having fun...why not.
Take Shep for example: I fished with him during his 3 month dry spell and he got a 32". That was time for a celabration photo no doubt!
Kids...pic are priceless
Trips are fun times too. I normally take pics of fish 40" and above and have for years unless the situation deserves it..
Read my signature, if you plan it right and are ready for a quick pic the release works out just fine. Just pull out of the net that is still over the side of the boat....10 seconds or less and get the fish back in.
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| I am with Tony on this one. EDUCATE, EDUCATE, EDUCATE. Thats what it's all about.
Another thing is that practice makes perfect, I am sure I was not the only one having non perfect releases of my first few fish over 50 but after releasing many of them every year I now have confidence that I can have the fish back in the water fast enough not to damage it.
Photos are memories of the release and thats is what we are trying to EDUCATE others to do. What about CPR instead of killing.
One thing you have to make sure is water release all fish caught in 75+ degree waters as thats when they get stressed the most.
I am not saying one needs a picture of every fish they catch. I for one only want pictures of big fish or tourney fish as well as at least one picture of clients with a fish as I do something special with that picture for my clients. [:sun:] |
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| I too take pictures of alot of my fish when I have the opportunity.. I often times fish alone so when I have a fish and a photographer in the boat the chances are she's gonna have a mugshot taken.
The actual picture taking takes so little time. Grab the fish out of the net, snap a couple pictures (I use the same two holds Jason does) and get her back in.
Where a lot of time is burned up is trying to get the exact measurement of a fish. I very rarely measure a fish out of the water. After taking the pictures I get the measurement boatside using a floating ruler. It is a little harder getting within 1/2 and 1/4 inches, but whats the difference. You can round down to the nearest whole inch and be sure the fish you caught was a 45 incher.
A lot of people I've seen measure fish in the boat do it on a straight vertical hold. It takes up to a 30 seconds to make sure they can squeeze every last 1/4 inch out of it. I really feel more damage is done to fish measuring them in the boat than there is taking pictures.
Just this muskie guy's opinion. |
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| Hey Tony, great post. I couldn't agree with you more. God bless. |
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| I am with Tony as well. It is a personal descision and what makes THAT person happy. I think it is less so they can post the pic than for personal enjoyment after the fact. A person who hasnt caught many fish may freak on a 35". That person deserves to have a picture taken of it if they wish. All with proper handling of course. |
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| As long as there not being held up by the eye sockets, I see no problem with taking a few QUICK snap shots.
But I ask you Don, What about the photo's of your tournement catches???
Why is it ok for you but not my 11 year old son to have his photo taken? |
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| It's all about time out of the water....plain and simple. I truly believe Jason has it right with his statement about 10 seconds. Be prepared in the boat with the camera out and ready to go....
There are those that disagree with the time premise, who foolishly believe that muskies can stand more time out of the water spanning a minute, two or three....
Also, water temperature is significant. Warm water (perhaps over 70 degrees) makes the time even more important. The bottom line for my boat is photos are o.k. as long as concern for the resource comes first...not our need to get the extra 1/4-inch in measurement by measuring 3 or 4 times...or shoot 4 or 5 different photos. Ontario's Gord Pyzer constantly preaches time when taking fish out of the water.
Let's all try to use Jason's 10 second rule....The resource should be first....
Russ
Senior Research Editor
Fishing Hot Spots |
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| Ok thanks for all the good replies.
I have made my point I think by bringing attention to it. For those of us that handle many fish we can probably get away with taking pictures. My point is do we as an avid anglers need pictures of everyone.
Look at the last musky hunter magizene and how of the pictures of fish caught. The majority of them are holding them the wrong way. you should not hold a fish in the vertical position. In fact its funny when I looked at those pictiure the ladies did a better job holding the fish then the guys did.
In Larrr'y R article he talks about the holding of fish and how when the slime comes off them we may be doing them harm.
I agree tony the memories are good from a photo and they are good for our guide business and with the number of fish a giude handles I think they are better suited to this. But I still say that the fish we catch as avid anglers we really do not need a photo of everyone.
John to answer your your question most of the tournaments I fish are water release on the spot. I wish all tournaments were run that way.
Again thanks for the good response and keeping this civil. This is the way posts should be.
And Tony I never argue about what watering hole. You always pick good ones.
Happy holidays all.....Don Pfeiffer |
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| Bill you have the P.M.T.T and you know its part of the rules. they take a picture usually of the fish being measured and held by one of the anglers. I have no choice there. I rarely take fish out of the water to take a picture of them. In fact in my seminars I stress the point about taking photos and the importance of getting the fish back into the water.
Don Pfeiffer |
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| Don,
I beg to disagree. You said you have no choice. You DO have a choice about taking a picture(s) of the fish in a tournament. Don't fish those tournaments that require a picture(s).
I feel that a picture is important to me, as I fish with my kids alot, and friends, too. I want to record this, and be able to look at the pics later, and recall the fond memories. I don't think my taking a quick picture is hard on the fish. Certainly much less than using the bump board, AND taking a picture(s)!
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| Too bad this thread didn't end with Tony's comments.
It's good to see that the Kentucky state motto of "Education Pays" has paid off! I'm not kidding either....that's the motto!
Great comments Tony!
A picture speaks 1000 words!! Damn Pfeif always srirring the pot! LOL!
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| Did not mean to stir the pot. I was just wondering why pics of every fish are needed. I have no objection to some being taken and especially by those that handle alot of fish as they know how to. My point ws simply is it nessesary to take pics of everyone. I think we have covered it all here so I let me the one to say all comments appreciated and have a great esox xmas
Don Pfeiffer |
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| You know what, this is asinine, ludicrous, and absurd..... Everyone here will take pictures of fish that they catch if it's not injured. They are sweet to look at and to show others. Some people here in this post say they don't take pictures of all of their fish, but I have seen them posing with 28" fish, so don't feed us this B.S. If you have an opportunity to get a shot of a muskie without injuring the fish, take the picture. If it's in bad shape, get a release picture by holding the tail with one hand and put the other hand just under the bottom of the jaw, and lift ....weeeeeee! It actually makes for an unbelievable picture, especially if the picture is taken from another boat. |
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| What next?Barbless hooks,down-lined silk landing nets! [:knockout:] |
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| Don,
Shep is right. In the PMTT you do not have to have your photo taken with a fish. It is the anglers choice. |
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| Photos, photos, photos, i admit i used to take pictures of every muskie i caught, no matter if it was 20"-50". But i have been after these fish for 14 years. I never had a fish die on me until this year, and we lost two fish. Its funny, cause they were 2 of the msot active fish i ever had in the net and fisghting.
However, I realize that i dont need photos of every sub or small legal. In Ky legal is 30", but i tend not to take photos unless the fish is mid-thirty or better. I feel this is a decent fish for the state, but when i go north like St. CLiar, i wont take photos unless its 40" or better.
Its funny though, as much as I have practiced with photos, this year i caught my 2 biggest fish, a 49.5" and 50" and I never can show off my photo. the 49.5" i accidently left the camera on my buddies bumper and it bounced off and my 50" the digital camera batteries werent strong enough to save the photo. oh well, the fish are still swimming. |
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| Don I would have to agree with Tony and some of the others, as a guide our job is to teach our clients the proper way to handle the catch. When we get a fish to the boat from a client I treat this like a valuable chance to teach them. Most of my clients last year thanked me for going into great detail on the correct way to handle fish, also teaching them that the water tempature dictates how some fish should be handled or not handled at all. Temps 70 and above call for releasing the fish at boatside unless a picture is absolutly nessesary. Some of my clients have settled for a picture of their catch in the water while held by the tail, these pictures turned out great because of proper two hand holds while in the water, one on the tail and the other just behind the gill plate as to hold the fish just above the water line, I see no harm there. As for a good camera for pictures the digital camera is awsom, besides showing them their picture on the screen in the boat the picture is sent to them via e-mail for them and all to see when they get to work the next morning. Believe me that when they get to open that e-mail and see the pictures of yesterdays catch it will be sent to everyone they know, can you think of a better way to promote buisness than word of mouth. A picture is worth a thousand words and when done correctly is a priceless item that will be saved for a lifetime. [;)] |
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| Mike I agree with you and tony it is important to teach the how to's. My original question why do we take pictures of every fish. My question was really aimed the muskie angler that takes pics of every fish so they show they caught it. I Don't think we need to take pictures of everyone. Some pictures are great and I to enjoying seeing a pic of a beautiful 45 or 50 inch. I was rally trying to make the point that I think we have all seen enough pics of small fish. I believe most guides do a great job of getting their client a nice pic and the fish back into water.
I would just like to se us all more selective in what fish we take pics of. And I know someone is wondering so I'll say it. Yes I have taken pics of fish, but I do not take them of every fish brought to my boat. I am not against taking some pictures at all.
Happy holidays all
Think we have said it all here
Don Pfeiffer |
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