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Location: SE Wisconsin | Have your ears ever burned because you overheard someone chalking up fishing to be a game of luck with no skill or talent required? Mine have, but lately I've been trying to displace taking it personally to see the bigger picture. Like many of you, I was born with freshwater in my veins and I've dedicated myself to becoming more consistent with my catches of whatever quarry I'm chasing over all the years I've been at it, but still there's so much more to learn...
There's a strange twist between fishing for fun because there are those who are enthusiasts like us and there are those who happily gamble their time on the water on luck and hope. Many of us enthusiasts have the most fun when we're taking the game seriously and taking that extra couple minutes after a release to reflect on the why's, when's and where's of the catch, but for many others, that's just not the "fishing" they know. It's sometimes hard not to get hot-headed and sell your opinion to those whom you overheard make the comment, especially if it was a direct delivery to you. My opinion is that fishing isn't like juggling, where you're either your good at it or your not, it's a past time that can be what you make of it... I believe for the most part, if you're taking time out of your day to visit a musky website, you're probably amongst the enthusiast type, like myself, who can't breathe without the fumes of an outboard burning oil over open water.
So, how do you handle those instances when your feel your ears burnin'? Do you take to the podium or let it roll off your shoulders like a raindrop on a ducks back?
Edited by Sam Ubl 2/24/2012 11:37 AM
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Posts: 691
Location: nationwide | Ducks back . . . .every time.
Corey Meyer |
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Posts: 2361
| Well I guess those ears are burning because they are talking about your situation, and you are probably right to take it personally. Make an effort to fish better, and they won't talk about you like that anymore, you pitiful wretch.
They never say such things about MY fishing, or the people I fish with. |
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Location: SE Wisconsin | LOL, nice FSF. |
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Posts: 138
Location: Utah | Interesting and I hope my comments are in line with this thread.
Out here in the west we get lambasted by the bucket list anglers looking for a notch on the rod-butt. They'll send me PMs on the fishing forums I frequent asking where did I fish what lure did I use. When I simply relpy any lure will catch a fish plus the lures we use 95% aren't sold in Utah. Including I kindly tell them put time on the water and learn. I don't and won't give them the play-by-play nitty gritty details.
Now what I will do is give them info on proper tackle, having release tools, and proper handling and links to information. If they are serious and want to improve their skills they'll read and go from there. If they continually contact me I go from there.
However most of the time here's what goes down.. I see a thread and I get lambasted in the open forum as we should share all we've learned on our own with them. They just want to take their trout light tackle fishing gear with 6# test line maybe heavier and catch a Tiger Musky.
For us we have a passion for what we do, have taught ourselves along with expending numerous hours on the water many never seeing a fish and always employing our 3Ps (passion, persistence, and patience).
So I've come to realize I just try and let it go with them but it does irk me that some folks want everything handed to them disregarding trying to learn on their own. So for our skills we continually learn and improve skills and our own techniques as each outing is new and we learn something else...skills are alls improved as I see it.
Edited by k2muskie 2/24/2012 12:18 PM
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Posts: 143
Location: La Crosse, WI | There is and will always be some aspect of luck in any type of fishing someone does. However, people who consistently catch fish, no matter what the species, is doing something besides just being lucky. I would say I am somewhere between an enthusiast and someone who fishes for fun. If I knew that I wouldn't see even a follow in 8 hours of throwing muskie baits, I would still go simply because I enjoy being on the water. However, I'm constantly trying to improve so I can have more success. I don't know if I ever want to become so obsessed that I take every tiny detail into consideration when I'm fishing or after I catch a fish because to me that would take some of the "fun" out of it. I fish because I enjoy it and catching a fish is usually a bonus.
To answer your question about people claiming fishing is more luck than skill, I wouldn't waste my time because they clearly have no idea how much time, skill, and patience it takes to musky fish and to be good at it. There is a reason people higher guides, read books, and catch more fish. When I first started muskie fishing, I would just throw different baits at the shoreline hoping to get bit. Now I have a better understanding of structure, lure type, and how weather affects fish. I guess what I'm saying is I don't know everything and I certainly don't want to know everything but luck is a very small aspect when it comes to fishing. People who rely on using luck as an excuse why they don't catch as many fish know that they don't have the skill or the knowledge plain and simple. |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | No skill is required. KVD was lucky to born into a family that raised their kids to fish. But is KVD successful? As successful as the guy sitting below a spillway with his kids tossing out crawlers with a Zebco? That's the BIG picture. |
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Posts: 1425
Location: St. Lawrence River | Sure some guys get lucky and get a big musky, even a blind squirrell finds a nut once in a while, but there is nothin lucky about consistancy, IMO. Keep puttin 'em in the boat consistently and show them there is skill involved. |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | And some people are so BAD at fishing that they're on #10 of 50"+ fish they've lost in one way or another. |
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Posts: 433
Location: Cedarburg, Wisconsin | I get upset at just the opposite. When people try to sell me on the it's all skill aspect of fishing. BS! Luck has a tremendous amount to say in your catch. Most of us have to make reservations for a vacation trip up to a year in advance based on things you have learned about the water through research and past experiences. But what conditions you will face has got absolutely nothing to do with skill, it's all luck! If the fish are biting, your skill will make you look better than you really are, and if they aren't all the skill in the world isn't going to change that. Reminds me of a bass trip my friend and I took to a lake 100 miles from his cabin. First time we fished the lake we slaughtered the bass, and caught walleyes and pike and perch too. It was a total hoot. Went back the next day just because it was too good to pass up, and couldn't buy a fish even with live bait! The weather changed and nobody was catching anything. Same skill, different conditions. Another time, different lake, we had over 60 bass plus dozens of bonus pike in a little over three hours. The heavy clouds blew over, the sun beat down, and not another hit in the next two hours. Same skill, just no results for us or anyone else on the water after the sun came out. I've seen it musky fishing, walleye fishing, even to some extent trying for salmon. If you are lucky enough to be on the water when the fish are really on you win bigtime, and if not all the skill in the world isn't going to make it happen. So give luck it's share of the credit.
Now I'll admit that under more neutral conditions, where the fish aren't on or off skill will certainly make a difference in overall numbers and often size in the long run. Just don't try to sell me on skill will always make a difference no matter what conditions you have. |
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Posts: 100
| Just wanted to add that juggling is a skill...
In all serously I like the quote "you have to be good to be lucky and lucky to be good" for this question. Sure you could be walleye fishing and happen to catch a work record...cough cough, but that is dumb luck. If you know where the fish are and what they are foraging on than you will probably catch some fish, and may catch a monster if she is in the area and actively feeding. If you spend a lot of time on the water and know where a monster fish is located and know what it is eating you will have a better chance of landing it. That is why I spend so much time on fishing sites, so that I can have the proper presentation and be lucky enough for their to be a monster feeding at the time.
If I was starved and at work you would not get me to eat steak at home, even though I love steak. If I had just gorged myslef on ribs and was settling down to watch TV I would not want chicken wings, even though I love chicken wings. We do not know when a fish will be hungry, or where exactly it will be, but if we spend hours on the water and do a lot a research we may be able to make a good guess and get lucky.
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Posts: 8780
| I can think of no better way to make yourself miserable than to worry about what someone else thinks. Someone who thinks fishing is all luck, probably doesn't fish. Those are the same people who think all there is to hunting is sitting in a tree and waiting for something to come by so you can kill it. |
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Posts: 392
Location: lake x...where the hell is it? | fishing for me has always been bout the rush, its better then any drug or drink i ever had! when i got my 1st topwater ski i was shaken so bad after jerry scooped her...i can still see her just flyin out the water and taken my rough runner with her, standin on the bow durin the battle watchin this beast headshaking...i can close my eyes and
see it. i am a musky enthusiasts watch means that i know skis will test you and your gear. you have to take it seriously and know what your doin so you naturly get good at it. anyone who dont think it takes skill to consistenly catch fish dont really know what thay are talking bout. if its ask of me skill or luck i like to talk bout guys like KVD whos won over $5 million winning tournaments alone... thats alot $$$ left up to luck! so do you think thats hes just really lucky when hes fishing or is he really skilled? ..... i leave them with that food for thought!
but i think for guys like KVD its bout the rush. i have heard guys say that catching big fish in tournaments is huge rush....winnings the bounes!
just sayin! |
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Posts: 1360
Location: Lake "y" cause lake"x" got over fished | I personally believe that fishing and hunting is a perfect 50/50 balance between luck and skill.
when I am out trolling for with my wife and I have a 8" jake in walleye color on and she is trolling for pike using a 2" rattle trap... and she catches the muskie... (true story) that is all 100% LUCK, not a bit of skill in that one at all.
On the flip side when you have to keep a muskies attention when she followed you in and you have to go around in the figure 8 ten times, plus the oval, plus a couple of other tricks that you have up your sleeve and you still land that fish.... Now That's SKILL!!! and no one can take that away from you.
If we are taking conditions out of the equation, I think in the line of muskie fishing, skill has more to do with putting consistent numbers in the boat. However with all of the electronics and equipment that we use to make our lives easier it is kinda of hard to say that it is all or even mostly skill.
The ski hunters that use a unbalanced ratio of skill over luck. are the guys that used to fish, when they didn't have depth finder, they didn't have long poles for extra casting distance, they didn't have GPS, they didn't have lake maps, they didn't have all the lure mods that we do now... and hell some of them didn't even use motors. Now if you are the type of guy who has none of these things and can still consistently put fish in the boat... then yes you have more skill then luck. However if we are unwilling to give up all of the luxuries that we have come to depend on, I don't know how you can say that skill has more to do with it then luck does... Take all of those things away and your numbers in the boat would drop...
Edited by FAT-SKI 2/24/2012 2:12 PM
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Posts: 719
| People say..."Oh you have those fish finders, the fish don't have a chance then". I always reply, "Lady that could be a turd floating by and appearing on the screen as a fish". |
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Seeing them on a graph or just laying in the water for that matter doesn't mean they are going to bite. |
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Location: SE Wisconsin | LOL, like that..
I agree, fishing is part skill/part luck. Consistent proven results speaks volumes.. It's not an ego thing, you don't have to prove a thing to anyone, but for some, part of the "fun" is proving out your effort to yourself. I know that when I focus for hours and sometimes a couple days on determining a pattern that has the longevity potential to put a couple in the boat for me, there's a sense of satisfaction that goes beyond the glory of the catch, it's pride in what became instrumental in the catch. So I guess you can't tell someone who says fishing is absent of skill or talent that their wrong, because to them, sitting on the ol' dock in the bay with an aberdeen hook through the middle of crawler under a float is to them, what fishing is all about. I think we can all relate, though. Sometimes there's nothing wrong with taking a break to remind ourselves that it doesn't always have to be about improving our odds, sometimes it's nice to relax and soak a crawler and wait for something to happen by instead of continuing the hunt. Depending on how passionate you are about your fishing, it sometimes hits you a littel strange when someone says, "You take this too seriously!!" You begin to wonder if their right.. but in the end you convince yourself it's not that at all, you're just serious about your passion  |
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Posts: 64
Location: Crystal Lake, IL | "Luck is when opportunity meets preparation." I love this quote and it's basically saying that you create your own luck. So, yes, some could argue that fishing is a game of luck, but it was all due to your preparation along with being in the right spot at the right time. This also means that there is such a thing as "dumb luck." Those guys that are pan fishing with a crawler and slam a 45 incher, chalk it up to dumb luck.
As for the original post, next time someone says that's it's all luck, invite them out on your boat. Give em a rod with a crawler on it and wish em luck!!
Some people just don't understand it and never will. However, others just might be new to the sport and actually may be willing to listen to your rant and may actually take something away from it. You never know, so on occasion it may be worth providing your 2 cents.
-bigmckee23 |
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Posts: 2015
| Good fisherman control what can be controlled.... |
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Posts: 1220
| Just got back to my resort room after fishing all morning on the bank at a west coast Florida resort. Everybody but me were fishing with shrimp and they wer catching plenty. I caught less than the group but I got them all on crank baits and still did pretty well. I used skill against live bait and lost, but not by much. |
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| Vandam spends THOUSANDS of hours minimzing mistakes from propellor hubs to spooling fresh line. He talks about minimizing the mistakes that are within his control. Just imagine if you never had an equipment problem how many fish you could boat!!!! |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Personal thoughts: luck is when a guy who doesnt know what he's doing catches a muskie on a crawler. Skill is the guy that goes out year after year and boats great fish. Skill is knowing what you're doing in many different situations, knowing how to fish those situations in the right way.
But along with skill comes dedication, time on the water and location. You can be the best fisherman from a skill perspective but if you're not fishing enough, you're not fishing the right waters to catch those quality fish...you're not going to catch those fish in great numbers.
I admit it, I'm not a very "skilled" muskie fisherman. I like fishing, but I dont pay enough attention, learn enough new tactics to adapt to different situations, and am no longer willing to spend long weekends staying in crappy hotels and lodges with other guys so I can chase fish. Reality is I dont care that much anymore.
Therefore those who will do the above will always outfish me across any length of time. |
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Posts: 802
| I let pretty much everything roll off. Why?
1. alot of people take things waaay too seriously; leave the egos and agendas at home. Just shut up and fish...
2. Why do I care what others say? I fish, I enjoy, case closed...
3. Don't care if you like this post either... 
"Teflon Steve" |
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Posts: 1287
Location: WI | You create your own luck through hard work and persistance. I know people that complain about not catching big fish, but they won't throw big lures, keep their hooks sharp, or take care of their equipment. Who will be more (lucky) consistant, the guy who's chasing rainbows (hot lake syndrome), or the one who hunkered down and really learned one or two larger systems?
I had a good season last year, I also had 32 outings where a fish wasn't boated. Nobody brags about the tough days, so it creates a skewed reality of how difficult it can be sometimes. If someone says I'm just lucky I laugh, because I know how much time I put in and they're trying to make excuses for their own lack of results or lashing out in jealousy.
In the end, they're just fish and it means almost nothing in the bigger picture. |
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| Slamr - 2/24/2012 12:49 PM
And some people are so BAD at fishing that they're on #10 of 50"+ fish they've lost in one way or another.
Well... I'm at 4-5 at least!
But that's okay, because I am running out of ways to **** up a giant fish.
1. Missed hookset: Won't do that again
2. Hooks not sharp: Won't do that again
3. Not paying attention: Won't do that again
4. Fish ate at the end of a cast and swam right at the boat: What are you gonna do?
5. Boat partner freaked out and scared the fish away: Trust me, she will NOT do that ever again. And it's not just because I looked at her and said "I've been fishing for 35 years. That was the biggest fish I have ever seen. If you ever do that again, I'm gonna throw 'ya in the $^%&in LAKE!!"...
So unless #4 happens again, I should be good! If I can just get her to stop crying over scaring that fish away, we'll BOTH be good...
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Location: Home of the 2016 World Series Champion Cubs | Slamr - 2/24/2012 3:00 PM
I admit it, I'm not a very "skilled" muskie fisherman. I like fishing, but I dont pay enough attention, learn enough new tactics to adapt to different situations,
So you're saying you "appreciate the game" The results just are what they are. Whatever the hell that is. You're out there. Enjoying passing the time. Very interesting. |
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Location: 31 | Slamr - 2/24/2012 3:00 PM But along with skill comes dedication, time on the water and location. You can be the best fisherman from a skill perspective but if you're not fishing enough, you're not fishing the right waters to catch those quality fish...you're not going to catch those fish in great numbers. . Location-location-location, of the three I would go with the old real estate adage as being the most important. Most certainly a skilled angler will out fish even the luckiest guy who is using a crawler harness in a better location, but that's not the typical scenario. Nowadays a competent guy with only a couple years of experience and a few bucks pretty much already has the right equipment and enough knowledge to get the job done… if he's in the right location. I hope most would agree that a big shortcut on any given body of water is to hire a good guide. To me the best attribute (luck is for beginners) is being able to find the best locations to fish during the course of the year… your skill set could be just average (nothing wrong with that), but the guys who can consistently find fish will almost always achieve the best results. This is particularly true on the waters I fish, it’s all about the location because I can put them in the boat once I find them anymore. This may not be as true on highly pressured waters where everyone pretty much knows where to fish, then refining the techniques and boat control are more critical. Still, no matter how good someone is at that, cannot catch what's not there. For bass, I would consider the best "location" to be fishing from the back of KVD’s boat… the guy is truly amazing in every aspect and “luck” has very little to do with it.
Edited by Jerry Newman 2/25/2012 2:24 PM
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Posts: 908
Location: South-Central PA | Skilled people always seem to have better luck...coincidence? I think not. I think in certain situations, luck can get you further, but in the majority of situations, skill trumps luck.
jeremy |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Who was it that said the more I practice the luckier I get?
#1 Location
#2 Timing
#3 Presentation
#4 Preperation
#5 A little bit o luck
Edited by horsehunter 2/25/2012 1:48 PM
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| The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary. |
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