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Posts: 284
Location: Eagan, MN | In preparation for the fishing season ahead, I'd like to get a jump on strengthening the muscle group that gives me the most problem while spending long days on the water casting and retrieving big lures. For me, the area that needs the most attention is the lower back.
Does any one have recommendations for strengthening excercises I can add to my regimen which specifically targets the muscle group of the lower back that we over-use while musky fishing for long periods of time? What has worked for you? Other tips that might help in addition to strengthening?
Thx in advance!
Brian |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | http://troylinder.com/
Fitness tab
Lower back video
Take a look! |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | You need to gain strength throughout your core. Skip the situps but look up planks, side planks, bird dogs, supermans, etc etc. Stretch in the AM, PM, before you workout and before you fish. Also increased strength and conditioning throughout your body will make your back hurt less. |
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Posts: 7039
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Lastly, and possibly most importantly: fix your posture. All day long, sit up straight. When you walk, try doing so with your shoulders back and chest out (I know, great look). AND, when you fish, don't stoop over anymore than you have to. I have a theory that it's not the hefting lures that hurts our backs when we fish, but leaning over all day looking in the water, schlumping over your rod (sounds bad) and leaning way over to figure eight. Better posture when retrieving, bending at the knees whenever possible, etc. could make your back hurt less over the course of a day. |
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| In addition to core exercise, overall exercise really helps. A few years ago I ruptured a disc, putting a lot of pressure on my sciatic nerve. The neurosurgeon said after 4 months that surgery was the only answer, but I kept swimming on my lunch hour and never had to have the surgery. Swimming is easy on the back and provides a good workout for the whole body.
Another tip the doctor on a recent episode of "Musky Hunter" TV provided was to put one foot up on the gunnel or in some other way raise one foot, taking pressue off the lower back as you fish. Alternate which foot you elevate. |
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Location: Minnesota | There are many things you can do to strengthen your back. Some are easy, some are hard.
Do you have access to a gym? What do you do for a job? |
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| Brian is this your way of saying you have to carry Gman at work and at play!!! |
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Location: New Hope MN | What are you doing right now? What's your age? Any injuries? What resources do you have?
IMO, the best back exercise is deadlifting. Form is critical.
But frankly I would research on fitness websites for a good full body routine. Guys here curl beer cans, not dumbells  |
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Posts: 200
Location: Minnesota | IMO, the best back exercise is deadlifting.
That's not just your opinion, that's a cold hard fact. The biggest problem with it is that people will go to the gym without any clue of proper form and just start picking it up, causing major problems. If you're going to deadlift, make sure you have someone who knows what they are doing show you how.
For fishing, you're going to need to concentrate more on muscular endurance than on limit strength. To build your muscular endurance, you should be doing sets in the 12-15 rep range.
In addition to deadlifting, you need to train the entire posterior chain from the shoulders down to the calves, but primarily everything from the spinal erectors down to the hamstrings. One weak link in the chain will result in compensation for the weak area which will lead to pain in other areas.
Edited by lhprop1 2/6/2012 3:03 PM
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| I have to tell you that sitting in front of a computer for 12 hours a day is the absolute worst thing you can do to yourself. Even if you make an effort to move around throughout the day and eat healthy food, there is no amount of diet and exercise that can make up for being glued to a chair. |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | esoxaddict - 2/6/2012 3:05 PM
I have to tell you that sitting in front of a computer for 12 hours a day is the absolute worst thing you can do to yourself. Even if you make an effort to move around throughout the day and eat healthy food, there is no amount of diet and exercise that can make up for being glued to a chair.
Sure there is. Come to the gym to me for a week. Oh, and eat like I do and workout in the mornings before work, too. If you want to fix the pain, you can. |
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Posts: 97
Location: Milwaukee, WI | I'm sure 90% of the guys on here are afraid/unwilling to try it, but if you want to improve strength, flexibility, and all around fitness, I would strongly recommend yoga.
I started doing it a year and a half ago and the results have been great. Most of the stuff I do is more "power yoga", but there are literally hundreds of variations. I recommend giving it a try. |
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| "good mornings" "romanian deadlifts" "hyperextensions (backwards situp). It all really depends on where you are starting. If you are just starting to lift, i'd recommend body weight hyperextensions until you build some strength. The other two I mentioned are not exercises you want to find out youre not ready to do if in fact you aren't ready. |
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| Louis - 2/6/2012 4:15 PM
I'm sure 90% of the guys on here are afraid/unwilling to try it, but if you want to improve strength, flexibility, and all around fitness, I would strongly recommend yoga.
I started doing it a year and a half ago and the results have been great. Most of the stuff I do is more "power yoga", but there are literally hundreds of variations. I recommend giving it a try.
As ashamed as I am to admit it, I have done yoga and I agree it helps. With that said, I was required to take it for college credit and I was unable to graduate without the class. But being able to look at all of the pretty was worth any ridicule that may come my way.
In all seriousness, yoga does increase endurance and flexibility. I haven't done any since the class ended, but I did feel in better shape when I was in it. It would be better to do that than pounding doritos and mountain dew every right like I have for the last three months. |
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| esoxaddict - 2/6/2012 3:05 PM
I have to tell you that sitting in front of a computer for 12 hours a day is the absolute worst thing you can do to yourself. Even if you make an effort to move around throughout the day and eat healthy food, there is no amount of diet and exercise that can make up for being glued to a chair.
Amen to that. That is EXACTLY my current problem as well. Coupled with the fact that for nearly 14 years of beating up my body riding BMX/Freestyle biking and competitive downhill ski racing and competitive moguls skiing and extreme skiing.
I'm paying for it big time right now and I have some serious lower back problems that, even now, at my young age, I'm going to NEED to start doing something about it and going to have to have it looked at by a dr.
But..yes...being so active for so many years during my teens and thru my early to mid 20s with those kinds of sports and actively lifting weights...to now being almost 40 years old and doing nothing but sitting behind the desk/computer all day long pushing a mouse around...isn't doing me any favors and I can seriously feel the affects of it when out in the boat on the water all day long.
I'm forced to have to rotate between hours of casting and then getting off my feet and give my back a rest with some trolling. It's the only way I can put in the 14 hours in a boat anymore these days.
Too young to feel this dang old...
Edited by MACK 2/6/2012 3:52 PM
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| Slamr’s posts are absolutely correct. You’re in the situation you are in because of posture and your everyday mechanics. Core work is obvious, but it goes well beyond that. Your entire body is linked so something wrong in your lower legs can affect your back. Something in your neck can affect your back, and even something in your chest can affect your back. Then to flip it around something wrong in your back can affect any other part of your body. Any weakness anywhere in the body means something else is compensating for it.
So a total body workout is best for improving your overall health which improves any back pain or fatigue. Core work definitely helps, but be smart about it if you have problems with your back. If you end up with a very sore back the day after eliminate the exercise you suspect caused it.
Weakness in your upper back and shoulders can cause a lot of problems with your lower back. Make sure you are working that area as well. A BIG overlooked area of back problems arises from weak gluteus maximus muscles. If they are weak your hips do not move properly thus causing issues in the back and even your feet.
Do a complete body workout and you will see huge improvements. P90X works awesome for everything, and includes Yoga like Louis mentioned. Yeh Yoga sounds girly, but try it sometime. It is quite hard work and really stretches muscles out as well as strengthens them.
For some working out may be enough. For others like me it isn’t. If you have muscle strength and endurance that don’t mean anything if they can’t function properly. Back to mechanics and posture. If you have knots/tight muscles they can’t work properly, and weaker muscles then start getting over-stress. While stretching may work, it can also make some things worse. Think of untying your shoes. If you have a knot in them and just pull hard on the lace what happens? It just gets tighter. That same thing could happen with your muscles. In comes the aspect of muscle release through trigger points, or self myofascial release. Basically it is what massage therapists do. Gotta work the knots out to allow your muscles to function properly. I have added self myofascial release into my training and I am starting to see great results from it, and am not footing the bill for a specialist.
I may be going a bit extreme but it is needed for myself as exercise itself isn’t enough. By incorporating trigger point therapy, stretching, yoga, correct posture, and strength training you are hitting almost all of the necessary items you need to. Last thing would be diet, but that itself doesn’t affect your back fatigue like the others do.
Here’s a good site for learning about Self Myofascial Release: http://tptherapy.com/
Lots of other sites out there for similar info. Also search for Foam Rolling. Self Myofascial release hurts like hell when you have knots, but it feels so good when you correct a problem.
As far as a desk job you can do something about that. Exercising will help immensely, but also you can change your workstation. I am sure if you explain your problem with you company you should be able to make it more ergonomically friendly. I as well have a “desk” job, and have converted my workstation into a stand-up station. I now stand most of my day rather than sit. Much better for the back. I still sit a bit as like sitting too long being bad so is standing. Also look into workstation ergonomics. Proper monitor height. Proper seat height. Keep in mind if you are leaning forward as well as rolling your shoulders forward. Don’t talk on the phone with it pinched between your ear and shoulder. And so on. Don’t make it sound like you are a victim because you work at a desk because you CAN do something about it. Most of us are just too lazy to do anything. Believe me standing most of the day at work kind of sucks, but my back feels much better for it.
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Mack and others: go see a doctor. It sounds like the end of a pharmecutical commercial (consult a doctor before starting treatment) but the best advice I recieved around my back was "you're never doing another crunch/sit-up again" and since I started doing different exercises and working out smarter + having better posture, my back is worlds better and I CAN stand and cast all day. |
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| Back pain? Nothing a Mountain Dew, Cheetos, and Ibuprofen won't cure.
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Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI | Great advice so far. Have to agree with the swimming, yoga, and stretching. Overall fitness will greatly improve your lower back strength, with an emphasis on core strength. Strong abs = happy lower back.
JS |
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| I'm no Dr......and no....I don't play one on TV.....and no......I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night...but...I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that my problem is a compressed disk or two in my lower back.....sciatica....is that how it's spelled???? |
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| MACK - 2/6/2012 7:41 PM
I'm no Dr......and no....I don't play one on TV.....and no......I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night...but...I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that my problem is a compressed disk or two in my lower back.....sciatica....is that how it's spelled????
Mack, my issues started with left foot being numb. Then the right foot and shin. I saw a nuerosurgeon, several MRI's from low back to neck, and several X-Rays. I guess I could consider myself lucky but all that was claimed to be wrong with me was a slight bulging disc at T4-T5, and a protruding shoulder blade on one side that they thought may be pushing against a nerve. They said not bad enough for surgery (Thankfully) and all they could do was give me some shots since I already went through PT for low back. Doc said exercise wouldn't help.
I then saw a Kinseotherapist and he changed the way I think. Through some coaxing I became a believer all I had to do was exercise. Ever since I have been exercising, and you know what...my issues have significantly improved. Seldom now do my feet even tingle. Still some soreness in the low back and upper shoulders/neck, but that is usually when I haven't worked out in awhile.
Muscles knotted and pulling incorrectly can shift things inside you that cause sciatica/pinched nerves. In my case it isn't a strucutre problem, but rather muscle. That is good news I guess.
Best to see a doctor first, but don't be suprised if they don't find something drastically wrong. Also I wouldn't be so quick to jump at a surgery or shots as that usually doesn't alieve all the issues. Don't overlook the power of exercise, stretching, and trigger point thereapy/massage. I have already proven several doctors wrong in my case.
Best of luck to all persuing the venture of relieving your back problems. It is a tough road, but one that can be overcome if you are willing to put forth the effort. |
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| A good pilates instructor will have your core super strong and your body working in order. A sore back is usually a sign of things not working right, like an out of tune engine. Until you get everything working in order and learn to realize when you are falling back into poor habits it is hard to get better. H |
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Location: West Chester, OH | Cycling.
A fairweather cyclist but jacked up my riding last year in preparation for the MS150 bike tour. Experienced significantly less back fatigue while standing in the boat last season & dropped a couple pounds to boot.
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| Like stated above P90x and yoga which is part of the program. Simple and very effective. Build your core muscles up and you will be amazed. This is coming from someone that missed months of work and went through months of physical therapy. Core, Core, Core, strength. For more advice just get a hold of chuck norris |
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| Gettin' Healthy - 2/6/2012 8:21 PM
MACK - 2/6/2012 7:41 PM
I'm no Dr......and no....I don't play one on TV.....and no......I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night...but...I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that my problem is a compressed disk or two in my lower back.....sciatica....is that how it's spelled????
Mack, my issues started with left foot being numb. Then the right foot and shin. I saw a nuerosurgeon, several MRI's from low back to neck, and several X-Rays. I guess I could consider myself lucky but all that was claimed to be wrong with me was a slight bulging disc at T4-T5, and a protruding shoulder blade on one side that they thought may be pushing against a nerve. They said not bad enough for surgery (Thankfully ) and all they could do was give me some shots since I already went through PT for low back. Doc said exercise wouldn't help.
I then saw a Kinseotherapist and he changed the way I think. Through some coaxing I became a believer all I had to do was exercise. Ever since I have been exercising, and you know what...my issues have significantly improved. Seldom now do my feet even tingle. Still some soreness in the low back and upper shoulders/neck, but that is usually when I haven't worked out in awhile.
Muscles knotted and pulling incorrectly can shift things inside you that cause sciatica/pinched nerves. In my case it isn't a strucutre problem, but rather muscle. That is good news I guess.
Best to see a doctor first, but don't be suprised if they don't find something drastically wrong. Also I wouldn't be so quick to jump at a surgery or shots as that usually doesn't alieve all the issues. Don't overlook the power of exercise, stretching, and trigger point thereapy/massage. I have already proven several doctors wrong in my case.
Best of luck to all persuing the venture of relieving your back problems. It is a tough road, but one that can be overcome if you are willing to put forth the effort.
Hmmmmm. Muscles knotted and pulling incorrectly. Very interesting you mention that. I forgot to mention in my above post about my bike riding and downhill skiing being rough on my body....in addition to that came a serious back injury in my Sr. High School days. Muscular...not structural, ie, bone. Back then...if you didn't miss a single day of your Sr year of high-school...Seniors could be "exempt" from taking their finals at the end of the school year. So...of course, like any Senior, I didn't want to have to take finals, so I was bound and determined to NOT miss a single day of school that year. Motivation via incentive. Until the Winter rolled around that year and I got the flu, REALLY bad! But....I shrugged it off and still went to school. At that time, I was taking weight lifting/training classes and went in that day to the weight training class, told the teacher what my deal was and why I was there. He understood...but...said I'd have to take it up with the swim coach that week as we were switching from weights to swimming for that week. Oh GREAT! I always knew our school's pool to be so dang COLD! I went in...told the swim teacher my deal, why I was there. She was cool with it...told me I'd get credit for class that day if I'd "dress" for class...meaning...I put my swim suit on and sat on the bench next to the pool but didn't have to swim. All was well till class had ended and my friends thought it'd be funny to pick me up and throw me in the pool as a joke. Well...they did it and as soon as I hit that cold pool water...I tensed up so bad, that I pulled both my right and left Lat muscles in my back from the base of my neck clear down to my hips! I had three, HUGE knots in my back that sent me to the doctors to try and get worked out. Instead of missing maybe a day of school that year due to the flu, I was now bed-ridden for a week on pain killers and muscle relaxants to try and work out the issues with my back muscles.
The dr told me back then that I had pulled those muscles so badly, that I would inevitably have back issues with those muscles the rest of my life. Which..to this very day...some 20 years later, I'm still having issues with those muscles on and off on a somewhat regular basis. I could sneeze, cough, laugh, or get up out of a chair wrong...all I'd have to do is move just so...and I'd pull those muscles again rendering me nearly incapable of doing anything. It hurts so bad that I'm unable to take in a full breath of air, because trying to take in a full breath of air would then fill my lungs, which would then push on my ribs which would then push on those muscles and the pain, at times, is so bad it nearly brings tears to my eyes. Then I get so weak and tired because of shallow breathing due to not getting enough oxygen in my lungs.
So...long story short..I can see how those muscles being injured so badly 20 years ago, could very well be the culprit, or at least an accomplice to the problem with what I'm feeling in my lower back. And yes...I feel the dull pain which is at the base of my spine, down into my hips region and I feel it at times affecting my right leg. The dull pain I feel at times, is kind of what you feel when you feel like you need to crack your knuckles. And at night, when going to bed, and in the morning when waking up to get out of bed, I sit there and try and twist in ways that helps to "pop" that bone down there to "eleviate" that pain. Sure...probably not the right thing nor the smartest thing for me to be doing...but...it at times helps.
Yeah...I gotta start doing something... |
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| Surprised no one has mentioned the most obvious. Weight.
All the exercise is awesome, important and part of the picture. Most of the time however, a nominal loss of weight will help more than almost anything. Your gut is optimally placed to cause back pain if you are carrying any excess pounds. I was never "fat", but did have a bit of a gut. 20 pounds later and no increase in exercise, my debilitating back and neck pain is GONE. If you can grab a hand full of blubber on your belly it weighs something and is pulling on your lower back all day long. Losing that weight and doing a small amount of exercise such as walking, cycling etc along with a small amount of yoga will do more for you than hanging out at the gym getting "strong" but still carrying some excess weight.
All good advise, but it is whats going in your mouth that is usually a major part of the issue. |
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| Good call on the topic of overall body weight. I'm not saying it's my issue...I'm 5'-8" at 185 lbs, but more muscle than fat...but I'm not at like 2-3% body fat like I used to be in my teens... |
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| For the specific problem: sit-ups until you are used to them. Then sit-ups with a weight behind your head or on an inclined board. |
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Location: Eden Prairie & Pine Island | Hey, hey, hey! |
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Posts: 200
Location: Minnesota | The Swan - 2/7/2012 9:40 AM
For the specific problem: sit-ups until you are used to them. Then sit-ups with a weight behind your head or on an inclined board.
No. Sit ups are horrible for the low back. Not only that, but abs are the antagonist muscle group for the spinal erectors. If your low back is bugging you and you do a million sit ups, it's going to cause even more lumbar rounding and posture problems and cause more pain in the end. |
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