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| http://www.startribune.com/sports/outdoors/136859558.html
I don't even know what to say. Beyond comprehension and surely illegal.
Have at it ladies and gentlemen!!! |
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Posts: 389
Location: Corning, Iowa | Last year they couldn't keep the rest stops open. Not a bad idea, but. O well. Doug |
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| Explain to me how this is illegal? Why do you have a problem with this? These officers are trying to protect the resources you and I use for enjoyment. You're getting your undies in a bundle because of a minor inconvenience that has much greater implications for our fishery? If a CO were to stop you they can ask you, or look themselves, inside your boat so if you think this is illegal because they don't have the right to do so, you're wrong.
Get real and get over yourself. |
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| Why is this a bad idea? It's people like you that don't give a crap that is making this happen.........  |
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| Are you guys serious am I on candid camera? Why is this a bad idea, where do i begin. First of all it's exactly like DUI checkpoints which are illegal in MN. Why are they illegal? There is zero probable cause to assume all drivers have been drinking just as there is zero probable cause to assume all boats are transporting invasive species. Quite frankly this is all I need to say but I'll continue.
Do you and others want your two hour drive to Mille Lacs to turn into 4 hours to stop at some DNR checkpoint? NO
The barn door is already open read the article. 30 some lakes already have Zebra mussels. It's to late like it or not every lake in MN will have them at some point. The money should be spent on eradication through chemical, biological, or mechanical means.
Checkpoints to pee everybody off is absolutely the wrong way to handle the situation. |
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| Minn (D) mindset: if the police pull over a minority for a traffic violation that is racial profiling.
if the police pull over every boater, even in the absence of visible infractions, that is fine.
So the state is hiring new officers to man these police checkpoints. I doubt all the tickets they give will cover the salaries, benefits, insurance, and eventual retirement benefits for these newly-hired State employees. Perhaps a small tax state income tax increase will be required eventually as well.
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| I wonder if somene could ballpark what this "project" will cost? Much better ways to spend state money in my eyes. Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% for DNR funding and for keeping invasives controlled, and always check and transport my boat by the law, but think about it...i'll go out on a limb and say milfoil and zebra muscles are not the first invasives that these waters have seen in their existence. Milfoil and zebra muscles will spread, if not by boat, by other "uncontrollable" methods. We can be as careful and regulatory as we want, but there is no way the DNR can realistically control this (delay, certainly). The positive here, if there is one, is that Mother Nature is a tough old bird that has been around an awful long time...she has a way of taking care of herself. Lets be clear, being checked by the DNR is not my issue, the financial requirements to process such a task is. My concern is that I fear other areas, of greater (or realistic) needs, of the DNR will suffer cuts to fund this. Not looking to ruffle feathers, just my .02. |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Ummm, actually there's plenty of probably cause when they set it up a few blocks from one of the main landings around a lake with AIS when you pull your wet boat by it. The difference with a DUI checkpoint is that there in no way for a cop to know if you've been drinking just by you being on the road.
Not saying it's right but I just came from the meetings where they talked about this and from my understanding it's going to be around/near the high profile infected lakes. If anything it's going to be more of a pain to "decontaminate' in a line with everyone else when I just do it at home with a bottle of bleach. |
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| Please tell us more Treats. In or around infected lakes, what does that mean? Are we talking on side roads or on the main higways? Will I be able to drive up 494 and go past 394 on my way to Alexandria without getting pulled over? What if my boat is bone dry and decontaminated at home? I won't have an option to not be inspected, will I? |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Checkbook,
At the DNR Roundtable yesterday when I got my chance to speak I likened all this to the terror attacks.
-When the Embassy got bombed everyone was like "wow, that's bad." The Rivers
-When the USS Cole got bombed everyone was "I can't believe they did that." Mille Lacs
-When the Twin Towers got bombed all hell broke loose and everyone demanded the gov't did "something". Minnetonka
So the govt did what it does best: over react to a crisis. Now we have grannies getting strip searched, wars everywhere, etc. I don't want to get into a debate on the War on Terror, just make the analogy of how gov't works. Just wait it's going to get worse. The big battle is that all these lake shore assn's are trying to use this as their silver bullet to keep us off "their lakes." I've already had conversations with the lake shore ass on Roosevelt Lake (new muskie stocking). They want MI's support in them "controlling our lake" with a gate or the like.
So to make a long story longer Checkbook, there is money from boat licenses designated to AIS. There are some other areas, including general funding that will end up getting thrown at this thing along the way as well.
At the end of the day, if people would just pull their heads out of their donkey's none of this would be an issue. Pull your plug, tell your buddies to do the same, and educate your friends and family to check their docks and lifts before they move them from lake to lake. It's that simple folks but the public is too dumb to do it so now we have the alternative: Big Gov't wiping our donkeys. |
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| I am glad the state is finally trying to do something. I live around lakes that have zebras. So many people just are too ignorant or just don't care. Some even have the mentality that its too late to try to stop them. I still am not sure that pulling drain plugs alone is enough. What about the water in the livewell drain line that isn't fully drained, what about wet bunks, what about ballasts on wakeboard/ski boats. I have watched multiple bass boats go from a lake with Zebras directly to a lake that doesn't have them with their drain plugs pulled, but their bunks soaking wet with water from the zebra infected lake when they land in the non Zebra infected lake. What about the musky boat that has bunks that fishes Tonka in the morning and drives to Independance with wet bunks to fish? What about a wakeboard/ski boat that has its plug pulled, but has water from an infected lake in its ballast? In my opinion boats need to be drained and dry at minimum. (bunks dry included) I think a lot of people are way to ignorant or stubborn to care when it comes to spreading zebras. That includes us musky fisherman as well. |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | DJS, as I understand it will be around lakes that are infected and NOT on the major highways. This was in fact a matter of controversy as a lot of people wanted the thing on 94 in the Rogers area for people coming up and down. I think time will tell as they are putting this together fast and it's evolving every few months.
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| Thanks for the information treats. Please keep us updated of you here anything new. |
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Posts: 406
Location: Stones throw away...finally!! | Guest: "dry your bunks"...explain how one would effectively dry carpeted bunks if they were lake hopping? Getting a little carried away dont you think? |
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Posts: 243
| If the concern is being directed at/around specific lakes, why wouldn't the check points just be at the boat launches on those lakes? I also agree it's very probable a number of other lakes have already been contaminated by AIS (we're dealing with the same issues here in Michigan).
Some lake associations in our area, or summer state/fed grant funded projects, have posted up at "problem" lakes to provide education, help in cleaning your boat on the way out, and even sometimes a portable wash station with a heated cleaning solution at the ready. Maybe all of those options have been tried in MN? It does seem that mandatory staffed checkpoints statewide would be a pretty expensive way to address the issue. |
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| Marshall,
If the larvae of the Zebra mussels are all over the bunks and the bunk is wet, then what is to stop the spread from lake to lake even if the livewell is drained and dry, but the bunk full of larvae of the zebras are put in the next lake. The point I am making is that a dry clean Zebra Mussel and their larvae free boat is something that I am not sure the boating public is willing to do. And if so will pulling plugs, checking boats on roadsides, or anything else really stop the spread? |
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Posts: 111
| Would someone explain why this is "surely illegal"
It appears that Committee Chairman Bill Ingebrigtsen (R-Alexandria) was the chief author of the bill, Senate File 1115.
http://www.senate.mn/members/member_pr_display.php?ls=&id=3896
And was signed into law by the Gov. Dayton
http://www.msrpo.org/2011/6/1/gov-dayton-signs-aquatic-invasive-spe...
So how is this surely illegal??? |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Guest, the chance of there being enough pillagers that could survive on wet bunks, transported and then reinfect a new lake has about the same likelyhood as someone contracting HIV from a handshake. Is it possible under the most ideal circumstances? Sure. Is it likely? Not really.
You need a significant amount of infested bilge water (more then just a wetted surface) to transport them via water. This also needs to happen at the right time of year when the larva are in concentrated enough numbers to for there to be a realistic chance of not only transport, but to procreate in the lake.
The best way to seed them in a new lake is with mature species on fixed structures. This could be docks, lifts, docked boat that have them attached, veg that is being transported that has them attached, etc.
On the infection spectrum a handshake would be like a wet bunk, and a dock would be like a blood transfusion and a bilge would be in the middle.
Like I have said over the years: use common sense and error on the side of caution. |
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| Maybe a lawyer can chime in but I am fairly sure "probable cause" is still located somewhere in the 4th amendment.
In fact here it is!
" The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. ”
If you are in favor or roadside inspections you also have zero problem with DUI checkpoints everywhere and anywhere.
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Also on having the inspection stations at the landing, can you imagine the cluster that would turn into? It's bad most days without that bottle neck. Also in some areas there are many lakes that are infected. it would be cost ineffective to have a separate station for all the landings. |
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Posts: 1638
Location: Minnesota | if it stops the spread im all for it i was stoped at the landing several times last year they were done looking my boat over before i was even ready to go by the time i put the cover on tie the boat down they were done nice guys to talk to talked to them befor i put the boat in gave me a heads up where to fish so i think of it as a good thing |
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Posts: 144
Location: Loves Park, IL | I see it as being "all about the money". When they pull you over they can ticket you for revenue and maybe get you for something else while doing so. If it's NOT about the money, why not take the money used for the new officers and hire part time people (you could hire more that way, plenty of workers out there) to man the busier launches they are targeting and have them monitor/educate people on the proper procedure to drain livewells and clean weeds from boats. This would make sure there are no boats leaving the problem lakes with invasive species. Once people see how easy it is to clean/drain a boat they will begin to do it on their own. If I clean my boat and pull my drain plugs the way I have been, I don't want to be pulled over for no reason, i.e. check points.
Jeff |
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| Musky treats,
Thank you for you analogies of the handshake etc... I still wonder though if a bunk is soaked with the larva (veligers), the livewell drain line has a pint of veliger filled water in it, and there is a lot of boats going from lake to lake that are only a few miles apart if that alone increases the odds of transport greatly over a dry bunk and livewell? |
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Posts: 22
Location: Minnesota | Boat launch checks are a great idea, before and after you launch. But don't pester me when I'm crusing down the road.
Edited by Muskie03 1/7/2012 2:29 PM
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Jeff it's not about the money. In fact they've been issuing warnings instead of tickets up to this point. Sometimes a few people need to be hit in the wallet before people start to pay attention.
DJS, according to your logic a weight station for semi's coming into MN would also be illegal. Since they're not I have to believe that the courts don't see this as falling under the 4th.
Guest, possibly but if people are dropping from infected to non-infected then we need to educate to basically tell them not to because of the risks. Even still, bunks are in the water for a very minimal amount of time and the density of larva in the water would have to be sooooooo high I just don't see it happening. Think about it, would maybe an ounce of water would be transported and exchanged. You would have to have such a density of pillagers that it would choke out the lake you just came from. |
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| Treats, of course it falls under the 4th amendment. Just because I have a boat attached to my vehicle doesn't mean I can be subject to unreasonable searches. It would be like saying DUI checkpoints are ok if they are within a quarter mile of a bar or restaurant.
Might as well pull over all trucks , vans, and SUVs. Maybe they are transporting firewood with emearld ash borer. I mean how would you know unless you stopped everyone and poked around for a look see. |
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| DJS, when you approach a checkpoint this summer just blow through it and see what happens. Then, after you get ticketed go to court and see what happens. I'm sure the judge will be impressed the combination of by your knowledge of the Constitution and cheerful demeanor.
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| "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."
It's called FREEDOM and I happen to be a big fan not about to apologize for it because some clowns at the state capital make a B.S. law. |
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| libstateblues - 1/7/2012 8:35 AM
Minn (D) mindset: if the police pull over a minority for a traffic violation that is racial profiling.
if the police pull over every boater, even in the absence of visible infractions, that is fine.
So the state is hiring new officers to man these police checkpoints. I doubt all the tickets they give will cover the salaries, benefits, insurance, and eventual retirement benefits for these newly-hired State employees. Perhaps a small tax state income tax increase will be required eventually as well.
Check your facts. A Republican submitted the proposal, a passed into law.
I am pretty sure that the majority of lakeshore association members on Minnetonka are not Liberals. Remember that when when you start complaining about how they gated all of the launches on Tonka.
Stupidity transcends political parties or affiliations, as you have demonstrated. Dumb people are dumb people. |
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| That should say,"a dem passed into law" . My grammar mistake. Sorry |
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