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| Just a question here but, how much would some one pay if they were to offer a no fish no pay deal for muskies? Terms being that most of your fish are between 35 and 45 inches . |
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| I've seen that offer before and after this year guides would be broke. |
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| If the client is Enjoyable to fish with and not complaining the whole time,a guide will sometimes offer a half day for free under these circumstances. Guiding is not an easy job and they Have to get paid In order to make a living. If you're a paying Client, don't complain, Put forth the effort, and take in everything the guide is teaching you. If I caught 35-45" MuskiesZ,I wouldn't Complain. |
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Posts: 18
| I think they would be broke in the first few weeks of the season. I dedicate about 20-25 days out of the season to fish with guides, and well over half of those days we don't boat a fish. Just because you hire a guide doesn't mean you guaranteed a fish, I'm sure everyone is aware of this. Fishing with a guide is expensive, there's no doubt about it........ But it's more then just catching fish. |
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Posts: 4053
Location: Land of the Musky | My buddy and I went out a few years ago with Jason Hamernick on Mil Lacs. We had no problems paying ~$400 plus a $100 tip and we did not even get a follow. It was a very cold Nov. day and the high was 18F. Getting the opportunity to have one on one time with a hard core musky guide is worth the money even if you do not catch anything IMO. You will learn a lot if you ask questions and listen. Plus it was fun watching Jason slide around on 1" of ice all day  |
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Location: oswego, il | Obviously an anonymous shot at a guide not named. |
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Posts: 203
Location: Alexandria, Minnesota | Good luck staying in business with that offer. It crossed my mind a few years ago to make that offer in November but I just figured guys would be pulling there lures away from or trying avoid catching smaller fish, just so they would not have to pay me. Factor in the cost of Advertising, Boat Gas, Insurance, Equipment, Capts License, and possibly bait and a guy would be broke in just a few short months.
Edited by Dave Williamson 11/29/2011 2:36 PM
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Posts: 8773
| Considering that starting a guide business is like taking out a second mortgage? Between boat payments, truck payments, having to buy enough gear to outfit two othr anglers, having to replace that gear when it wears out, breaks, or winds up on the bottom of a lake, insurance, gas, boat repairs, etc. I'd have to question why anyone who is trying to make a living would offer to work for no pay, especially when the inital investment just to get started is probably $100,000 or more.
I know that wasn't the question. But I think guide fees are what they are because that's what it costs to run a guide business. The guys I know (and there are many) who are guiding full time, are either A. poor, or B. Made their money somewhere else and are guiding because they love it.
I sure wouldn't want to try making a living at it. You figure $350/day, and you might book 200 days in your best year ever. That's $70,000. Think about that for a moment. Most years are proably close to 150 days, but let's pretend it's 200 days. WWhat can you afford on $70k? Probably a nice truck and a nice boat, and plenty of gear. But what about a place to live? A wife? A family? Maybe a vacation once a year? Probably not. |
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Location: Smith Creek | If you can't live on 70k a year you need to start a budget. Heck at 70k I could afford 2 houses. |
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Posts: 633
| The problem with the $70K is you have to pay all your expenses out of that, along with paying taxes on that amount. You have to pay all Fed, and State taxes, along with both sides of FICA. That $70K can get chopped down to $35k or less pretty quick. |
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Posts: 1141
Location: NorthCentral WI | esoxaddict - 11/29/2011 2:51 PM
WWhat can you afford on $70k? Probably a nice truck and a nice boat, and plenty of gear. But what about a place to live? A wife? A family? Maybe a vacation once a year? Probably not.
This statement tells a lot about the individual. Maybe I'm wrong but I would guess the majority of people on this board make less than 70K/year. (I know I do)
Lol. I can't say anything more but just laugh.
Maybe that is another big factor in why people hire guides. They have too much money. For a guy like myself, $350 for a day of fishing equates to at least 10 fishing trips for me.
BTW, not everyone owns a $40K+ Ranger, nor do they need to in order to be a guide.
Sorry EA, I can't disagree more with your post. I was shocked reading that. It made me a little sick actually.
Edited by MartinTD 11/29/2011 3:27 PM
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Posts: 8773
| You can live just fine on $70k. (depending on where you live) But can you afford a boat, and a truck to pull that boat, and enough gear to outfit a guide service? Could you then afford to repair and maintain all of that when it breaks because you're fishing 200 days a year?
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Posts: 8773
| Martin, you can disagree all you want, but let me ask you this:
Do you know any guides? Have you ever looked at how and where they live, or asked them if they have any money left over at the end of the month? |
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Posts: 1141
Location: NorthCentral WI | esoxaddict - 11/29/2011 2:51 PM
The guys I know (and there are many ) who are guiding full time, are either A. poor, or B. Made their money somewhere else and are guiding because they love it.
QUOTE]
Probably a true statement. They obviously have to make something doing it too though. Most of the guides I know have to work full time jobs to make it. They guide part time simply beacuse they love to be on the water and sharing the experience with others.
Either way you look at, 70K+ = you're rich, great person lol. |
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Posts: 233
Location: Iowa |
I'm guessing your tax bill wouldn't even be close to that. By the time you write off all of your expenses. Probably one of the major benefits of be a guide, is the money that most of us blow on a truck, boat, gas, and equipment just to fish, a guide can write off.
Its still no money making deal and I seriously doubt any muskie guide is grossing 70k a year.
Jeremy
Edited by jwelch 11/29/2011 4:00 PM
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| $70K a year for a guide is a ridiculous amount of money. Most guys with a good job in a specialized field don't make that kind of money. $70K is 70K regardless of what career you are in.
At 70K a year, hell 50K a year, I would take up guiding full time in a heart beat and not think twice. Being equivalent to a normal job that would equate to an est. $24 an hour, 40 hour week, to hit the 50K number. Lots of people would kill for that wage.
Guide fees are what they are. The guides set what they feel is reasonable. Doubt insurance, taxes, etc... is taken into account to what they charge a day. Usually the larger name guides set the precedence on what they will charge, and the rest follow suit. |
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Posts: 1141
Location: NorthCentral WI | Really, all of the guides I know work full time (or close to) jobs to pay bills. Guide fees are basically supplemental income.
I'm not saying they're rich either, but none of the guides I know (5-6 locally) are struggling. They're doing better than a lot a people. |
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Posts: 619
| a good portion of the income is take by the cost of gas.. you have to drive to the lake and pay for boat gas... when gas is close to $4 i would imagine its pretty tough to make much money to survive. even if it is a 30 mile one way, they have already spent $24 on gas and then figure in boat gas, that really dips in to the profit. |
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| Martin, you just made my point - the guides you know are doing well because they have TWO jobs. If they were relying on their guide business alone, I doubt many of them would be able to eat. |
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Location: The desert | MartinTD - 11/29/2011 2:51 PM
Really, all of the guides I know work full time (or close to) jobs to pay bills. Guide fees are basically supplemental income.
I'm not saying they're rich either, but none of the guides I know (5-6 locally) are struggling. They're doing better than a lot a people.
Probably because they have 2 incomes....... |
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Posts: 1141
Location: NorthCentral WI | esoxaddict - 11/29/2011 2:51 PM
WWhat can you afford on $70k? Probably a nice truck and a nice boat, and plenty of gear. But what about a place to live? A wife? A family? Maybe a vacation once a year? Probably not.
This was really the only problem I had. I know you aren't making that PP. Do you still have a place to live? A wife (to be)? A family?
HAHAHa
And you think startig a guide business costs 100K? "Like taking out a 2nd mortgage." |
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Location: The desert | MartinTD - 11/29/2011 3:09 PM
esoxaddict - 11/29/2011 2:51 PM
WWhat can you afford on $70k? Probably a nice truck and a nice boat, and plenty of gear. But what about a place to live? A wife? A family? Maybe a vacation once a year? Probably not.
This was really the only problem I had. I know you aren't making that PP. Do you still have a place to live? A wife (to be )? A family?
HAHAHa
What does this post even mean? |
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Posts: 661
Location: Roscoe IL | I know for a fact one makes over $100k a year with their line of tackle they sell on the side. That said, I would conside him to be a top 10 Muskie guide in Wisconsin. The variables on the income if just guiding are difficult to determine, but I can't imagine it's more than half of that. The tackle must be generating a very good portion of that through out the year. Either way, passion and love of the work would be a huge factor to pursue that. No catch no pay is a very risky sales pitch, I would still pay $350 at min if we got skunked. A full day should be in the $400 to $450 range for him and his boat, and a good tip would be in order if he did everyting possible to get us on fish. Split thart with you buddy and it's no so bad.. It's always nice to listen to them tell you about the lake and the structure your fishing, Luckly I have not had a bad experience with a Muskie guide to date, all have been worth every penny. |
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Location: NorthCentral WI | Pointerpride102 - 11/29/2011 4:11 PM
MartinTD - 11/29/2011 3:09 PM
esoxaddict - 11/29/2011 2:51 PM
WWhat can you afford on $70k? Probably a nice truck and a nice boat, and plenty of gear. But what about a place to live? A wife? A family? Maybe a vacation once a year? Probably not.
This was really the only problem I had. I know you aren't making that PP. Do you still have a place to live? A wife (to be )? A family?
HAHAHa
What does this post even mean?
About the same as your last 100 posts PP. Why get involved?
The point is trying to make EA realize how ridicoulous his post was. I thought you were smarter than that PP. Don't bother responding 20 times like you always do, I'm signing off now and this will all be erased soon enough. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | MartinTD - 11/29/2011 3:16 PM
Pointerpride102 - 11/29/2011 4:11 PM
MartinTD - 11/29/2011 3:09 PM
esoxaddict - 11/29/2011 2:51 PM
WWhat can you afford on $70k? Probably a nice truck and a nice boat, and plenty of gear. But what about a place to live? A wife? A family? Maybe a vacation once a year? Probably not.
This was really the only problem I had. I know you aren't making that PP. Do you still have a place to live? A wife (to be )? A family?
HAHAHa
What does this post even mean?
About the same as your last 100 posts PP. Why get involved?
The point is trying to make EA realize how ridicoulous his post was. I thought you were smarter than that PP. Don't bother responding 20 times like you always do, I'm signing off now and this will all be erased soon enough.
Actually we both pointed out a flaw in your logic. The relatively few guides you know all have full time jobs to pay the bills, and guide for supplementary income. Thus, they obviously feel that they cannot make enough money to live off of by guiding alone. |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | Really, getting bent out of shape over guides fees again....
I start the day out and run anywhere from 8-30 miles to the lake with my truck and boat. I will burn about about 5 gals of gas a day in my truck, if we aren't lake jumping. Roughly $20 in truck gas.
Fishing a normal day on the waters I fish I use about 12 gals a day, roughly $48 in boat gas.
My insurance because it is a business is much more expensive than typical boat insurance, lets say I guide 50 days a year, its an additional $25 a day to guide for insurance.
A typical day I usually lose a couple leaders to clients, as theirs are inadequate $5 a pop, probably a bait every other trip $10 a trip, and occasionally a reelful of line for a client that is using junk $5. I need to replace at least two rod and reel setups a year, which works out to $12 a day.
I need to maintain an operating website, $8 a day advertise $8 a day, not to mention the free trips given away to good causes.
I figure the additional 50 days a year on the water costs me an additional $500 a year in boat maintenance, stuff breaks, $10 a day.
Lets pretend that's all the expenses for the day, I charge $325, and I have out of pocketed $156.00. That leaves $169 to go toward my boat and I for a thirteen hour day (8am-9pm). $13 an hour.
Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining. I too have a full time job that grants me great flexibility during fishing season to be able to take people out fishing. I truly enjoy doing it, the smiles in fish pictures are priceless and some of the friendships I have will be lifelong. Please don't think its making me rich though, that's not why we do it. |
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Location: The desert | What is the flat rate for a guided beaver outing? |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Norm offers that as a surprise bonus. The Beaver is usually surprised way more than Norm. |
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Posts: 2011
| I think EA post makes a lot of sense .....How many businesses can operate on 70K gross revenue? I doubt many muskie guides NET 20k per year from guiding! trolling motors, batteries, big motors, reels, rods...they all break/ wear out. |
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Posts: 619
| I went on a guide outing 2 yrs ago in FL near Punta Gorda...we just stayed in kind of bay area for sea trout and smaller fish...$500 for 4 hrs and the guide had another guy waiting to go out when we got back...now that is making money. The guy maybe had a little more expensive boat - probably around $80k for the boat. |
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