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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Ok guys, I have a question,well maybe two.
Why do some guys hire the same guide every year (sometimes a few times a yr.) to fish the same lake, and basically the same spots,..year after year?
I know of some guys that has fished a lake 20-30 times but still hires a guide. Why?
Are they lonley, or perhaps they are just insecure with their own inability to find/catch their own fish?..... Or do they just like "brown nosing" with the "higher ups"
I know that using a guide on a new(to you) body of water will really shorten the learning curve, but that's not what I'm asking here......... Some Guides have "regulars" every year, and some of them are pretty good Sticks..... I just don't get why you would shell out $400. bucks a day to fish water that you already know.
Any Thoughts ?
Jerome |
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Posts: 321
| Some people enjoy learning new tactics and see how others with a proven track record fish the same water. I think if you learn a new trick or two, get to use or see other equipment that is out there. How they control their boat vs how you do. The better fisherman you become the better you are at learning from others. H |
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Posts: 1348
Location: Pewaukee, WI | They may not have their own boat or invested in a sufficient tackle. |
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| because you cant learn everything in one day. i fish with the same guide every year on the same lake. have been for the last 6 years. i make sure to book at differnent times of the year each year to learn about the lake and whats going on at different times. also i just really enjoy fishing with him. all the times i have gone out with him i have never felt that i came away not learning something new. |
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Posts: 567
| because they are filthy rich lol...i think many possibilities are there, but many just like to learn and some build relationships with guides that have done them well in the past. |
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| Well, Jerome... I am that guy you speak of. And here are a few of the reasons:
I don't have a boat. I can't afford a boat. My current living situation leaves me with no place to PUT a boat. So it's either fish with others, or not fish at all.
Granted, the money I have spent on guides over the years would have bought a nice Ranger, but I'd be out there on the lake in my Ranger flinging whatever baits around blindly, and would likely catch one fish for every 30 days on the water, when I happened to stumble across a hungry stupid one that was eating no matter what I did.
Now, as to why I hire the same guides year after year? I've become friends with some, and we truly enjoy fishing together. I have a few "mentor guides" that I've been fishing with since I started 8 years ago. Those folks have continually helped me improve my game. It started with basic casting technique, lure selection, figure 8's, and has grown from there to comprise everything from seasonal patterns, baitfish migration, when and how and why the fish transition from one area to another... I still learn something from them every day, and now it is subtle things that I'd likely never discover on my own, because they come from their knowledge and 50 years of fishing and guiding on a daily basis. I simply won't live long enough to put that kind of time in.
Still others? Well, on Eagle for example, we usually fish East and way down South. Being in the boat with someone who has spent their life on that lake, and knows where all the reefs are, even the ones that aren't marked, knows whare there is something to avoid that Navionics doesn't know about? That to me is worth it's weight in gold. If I was down there by myself in my own boat, it would only be a matter of when and not IF I left a lower unit on the bottom of the lake.
I go up there to concentrate on fishing, enjoy the scenery, and worry about catching fish. I go up to get away from hassles and problems and worrying about this or that that is broken. After 6 years, I know the spots well enough. I've studied the maps, I've been over them on clear sunny days where you can see how they lay out. I've watched time and time again how they work that spot, talked about the points and humps and inside turns. I've seen how they turn on when the wind hits them from a certain direction, and how they can shut down when it doesn't. I could certainly fish them effecrtively. If I was able to have a boat, I probably would do just that. But I'd also probably fish with many of them regularly, because We enjoy each others company.
There's also the advantage of having someone who is out there day in and day out, and knows what's been happening where. Killing three days of a six day trip just trying to put a pattern together is three days I can't afford to lose. The same goes for the weekend trips. First time on a lake this year compared to 20th time on the lake this year, there's no comparison. I live two hours away from the closest muskies, and I work for a living. It's simply not possible for me to be in tune with what's going on out there.
I go up there to concentrate on fishing, enjoy the scenery, and worry about catching fish. I go up to get away from hassles and problems and worrying about this or that that is broken. After 6 years, I know the spots well enough. I've studied the maps, I've been over them on clear sunny days where you can see how they lay out. I've watched time and time again how they work that spot, talked about the points and humps and inside turns. I've seen how they turn on when the wind hits them from a certain direction, and how they can shut down when it doesn't. I could certainly fish them effecrtively. If I was able to have a boat, I probably would do just that. But I'd also probably fish with many of them regularly, because We enjoy each others company.
And lastly? It's a matter of cost. You can hire a dozen guides a season, and it's STILL cheaper than owning a boat. You don't have to fix a guide when it breaks. You don't have to pay to store them somewhere. You don't have to put gas in them, or insure them, or deal with impellers and busted props, lower units, electronics failing, trailer lights, trailer tires, trolling motor pedals, dead batteries... When something goes wrong, it screws up your day, but it doesn't ruin your trip or your season, because it's not your problem and you don't have to pay to fix it.
That said, I will own a boat. When I have a place to put one, and I have the money to buy one and can honeslty tell myself that it wasn't just another stupid irresnposible expensive purchase, using money that I desperately need to pay my bills with? I will have a boat. And when that day comes, I will probably fish 100 days a year. And I will still hire a guide here and there, for the knowledge, and the freedom to have nothing else to think about than what to throw next. |
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Posts: 49
| That's a good answer........
Also note:
If you go back in history, you will find it common for many a man to sail the seas with many men..........sometimes for months at a time......
So there's that.........
Edited by Jolly Roger 11/26/2011 1:51 PM
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| I know that last answer was long winded... For me, it also comes down to what you do when you want to learn anything. You seek out the people who know the most, who have dedicated their lives to it, and have lived it. When I wanted firearms training, I took tactical wepons courses, NRA courses, etc. When I wanted to learn guitar, I took lessons. When I wanted to learn Karate, I took lessons. Just like you've done with your education, college, and most likely your job and career, you seek out those with vast amounts of skill and knowledge. There's lots to be learned on your own, and lots to be learned simply by doing and making mistakes. But there's also a lot to be learned from the best, that you simply can't get any other way then spending days and weeks in the boat with them.
Besides, it's good to watch someone with that kind of experience blow a fish or two from time to time. Keeps you from beating yourself up over your mistakes. Of course it also gives them something to hound you about for years when you blow it, so I guess that knife cuts both ways  |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | EA ..I get what your saying,..... so If it's cheaper for "You" to hire a guide than Why bother thinking about buying a boat?
I guess I'm different , in that I like the freedom of having a boat and finding my own patterns/spots......I'm talking about lakes that I am familiar with. I just wouldn't hire a guide. I also don't think it takes 3 days to figure out a pattern. Sometimes the pattern will change a couple times a day.
Lakes that I don't fish, I would consider hiring one (like Kincade), just to shorten the learning curve.
I just was curious as to why some guys hire guides that already know the water that they are being guided on.
Some good answers so far.
Jerome |
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Posts: 8772
| Well, Jerome... I hate having to rely on someone else, but that's just the way it is for me right now. Why bother buying a boat? So I can fish when and where I want for as long as I want. Change lakes if I want, stop and take a swim if I want, call it until the sun goes down if I want, fish at night if I want, start at 5:00am if I want, try a new lake if I want, or even fish part of a lake that I want without having to talk someone else into it.... Or to make another run at a spot at a different angle intead of blowing through it and moving on, or to quit a spot instead of beating it to death when it's just not feeling right today... I need a boat. That's just the way it is. I like to do things my own way on my own schedule. You don't get that with most guides. There are some who will oblige when I say "hey, let's go hit _____, or when I say "let's give that one more pass..." But more and more I find myself wanting to do things a bit differently and having no choice because it's not my boat.
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Posts: 18
| Top,
I know for me, oh by way long time forum viewer, but lazy when it comes to posting and signing up. Anyways, I can't speak for others, but im sure there's quite a few guys out there in my situation. I have very few friends, not because I'm not a decent guy, but I'm a business owner and extremely busy. So guides are a great resource for me when "I want" to go fishing. The few guys and family members that I fish with can't just take Wednesday off because it's overcast with an eastward wind. But the professionals can, because it's there job. And after a few years, those guides, become friends to fish with. Even if you continue to pay them for there services.
Don't get me wrong, I fish a ton by myself. But after fishing Mon-Thur mornings before work and couple nights after work. Then putting in Saturday morning for an extended morning of fishing before going to the office still with no one to talk will drive a man crazy. |
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Posts: 470
Location: Blaine, MN | Top
Just me but I hire the same guide every year, same lake, different times of the year, and I do it for a few simple reasons... It is the day I refer to as my vacation day. I dont have friends who realize what it takes for a day of fishing, so for most of the season I feel like the guide. my truck, boat, lures, rods, gas, oil, and most of the time head lamps, food, drink and rain gear. So hiring the guide seems inexpensive, and worth it when I compare everything in that light... funny thing is I offer the opportunity to all friends to share the guide day with me, but they all claim 150 for their share is to expensive. So i go solo and use it as my "vacation day" of musky fishing, no decisions to make on my part and no worries, I can relax, not run the boat and just cast... plus the guide and myself have become good fishing friends. it's fun bouncing ideas off of someone who chooses to be on the water most days as well. Not trying to be "cool" by association, just fun fishing with people who share similar interests, and I dont mind paying for 1 vacation day a year. |
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Posts: 1529
| guides provide a great service.
knowledge
great stories. they put you on fish.
many dont get the time to stay on the bite. guides cut learning curves.and yes many friendships are created outs fishing with great folks |
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| Do the math on 10 guide trips a year for yourself...4-5 grand? Versus owning a $20-50,000 boat and the insurance, depreciation, gas, oil, finding the fish, storage, various equipment problems, broken skegs, bearings, plus all the tackle and equipment.... |
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Posts: 968
Location: N.FIB | you can buy a boat for 4-5 thousand |
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| Why go to multiple packer games? Why go to multiple Dead shows? They are never the same and always a good time. |
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| Do fish caught on a guided trip bring the same satisfaction as a fish caught on your own? I have never hired a guide and my biggest hurdle in doing so is that a significant amount of joy I get w/ muskie fishing is putting my boat in the right place at the right time w/ the right presentation. I guess I understand the learning curve, but not year after year b/c it would almost seem like the lake would become a nothing more than a bunch of places a guide showed me. Maybe this is why I can't watch hunting programs and the "pros" on them hunt from fortresses on ranches and then brag about their "trophy." |
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Posts: 32881
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | If you don't want to hire a guide, don't, that's your call and fits if it fits. Many folks enjoy a guided trip; I had clients who returned for 15 years, same days each year. I am absolutely sure it wasn't just about catching fish. I also had clients who hired me one time to learn the water, and I saw them regularly each year after. Made allot of friends guiding, and miss it...a little.
The parallel with hunting shows comparison is weak. |
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Posts: 501
Location: S.Wisconsin | I bust my balls running the boat all year (so friends can catch fish) so for me i kind of look at it as a break. A little treat to myself and i always have a good time with the couple guides that i fish with every year. As far as not being secure in my ability to find and catch fish....ha. Why do people blow hundreds or thousands every year sitting in a bar? To each their own but for me I love the sport and most of my spending money goes towards it. |
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| Why would someone worry about what others do????? |
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| Is this thread for real? "Insecure", "brown nosing with the higher ups"? Seriously? Wow! hahahahahaha Thanks for the laugh (although I'm not laughing with you)
What do you care what people do with their time and money? It isn't your time or your money!
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Posts: 802
| EA and little one nailed it. Jerome, you need to look at all the different anglers and all the
different circumstances involved, not just yours...
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Posts: 427
Location: Wausau | To answer the original question;
If I were to hire a guide, my first consideration is if the guide donates his talents to charitable events, such as Operation Muskie or other localized events where the money raised helps make a difference in peoples lives or the $ raised goes back to help the local system. My second consideration is where. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | esox69 - 11/27/2011 9:39 AM
EA and little one nailed it. Jerome, you need to look at all the different anglers and all the
different circumstances involved, not just yours...
Thats exactly why I asked this Stupid question ! .............And to see how many of you dor ,...er,errr, Gentalmen got your panties in a bind.
And if you guys don't think that there isn't any "brown nosing" going on in the Muskie world, than you don't have eyes to see or ears to hear.......I'm starting to feel like P.P.! How Wonderful !
Jerome
Edited by Top H2O 11/27/2011 1:34 PM
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Posts: 802
| hey, if you're going throw out a question with attitude, don't cry if
you get some back... |
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Posts: 556
| I use guides and I fish on my own---I think every guided trip I have been on was worth every cent I paid for it. Lots of info picked up during these trips and i have enjoyed every guide I fished with. Also like to fish on my own and use the info and techniques I have learned on those guided trips for myself. I say if your thinkling of a guide go ahead with it and try it out--I think you will enjoy the experience. JIM |
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Posts: 566
Location: Elgin, IL | Jolly Roger - 11/26/2011 1:46 PM
"If you go back in history, you will find it common for many a man to sail the seas with many men..........sometimes for months at a time......
So there's that........."
LOL...Classic
Edited by Northwind Mark 11/27/2011 5:31 PM
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| For many people muskie fishing is purely something recreational... something they enjoy. Each person enjoys it for different reasons and some people don't care about learning. I've probably been mini-golfing 20-30+ times in my life but it wasn't because I wanted to learn how to become a better mini-golfer... it was because it was fun. The list of why people hire guides is very long. Some reasons might be because they are lonely, insecure with there own ability or they just like brown nosing (those are some very nice reasons to choose as your examples by the way)... but I think more likely it's because they are looking to enjoy themselves, don't own a boat or the right gear, enjoy the scenery etc. To answer your question, maybe some people's motivations for going muskie fishing aren't the same as yours... that is a possibility.
Steve |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Top H2O - 11/27/2011 12:19 PM
esox69 - 11/27/2011 9:39 AM
EA and little one nailed it. Jerome, you need to look at all the different anglers and all the
different circumstances involved, not just yours...
Thats exactly why I asked this Stupid question ! .............And to see how many of you dor ,...er,errr, Gentalmen got your panties in a bind.
And if you guys don't think that there isn't any "brown nosing" going on in the Muskie world, than you don't have eyes to see or ears to hear.......I'm starting to feel like P.P.! How Wonderful !
Jerome
Welcome to the club! I will get your membership card and complimentary hat in the mail. |
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Posts: 32881
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Hey!! Where's mine? |
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