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| Just fustated with the amount of dead fish lately...What will it take to do away with live bait (Large suckers) for muskies? In the last week I have seen 5 and I have only been on the lake three days. I didn't see that many all summer (i fish every day). The water temp is right around 50 fish should not be dying. Don't get me wrong I have fished with suckers and it is fun but, the way the sport is expanding and the amount of novice anglers that are out there I think it should be done away with.
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Posts: 968
Location: N.FIB | those fish could of died other ways than getting hooked by muskie fisherman,what state |
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| sucker fishing won't be banned, I doubt those 5 fish died from people sucker fishing, but it is possible and if they did the better thing to do would be to educate these "novice anglers" on the correct way to use a quick strike rig |
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Posts: 501
Location: S.Wisconsin | The temp outside is 55 and people are dying. Fish die all the time. I have used suckers for quite some time and have never killed a fish.....other than some suckers. How about other methods that kill plenty. Just have fun and go fish. I will be using suckers this weekend so we will see how it goes |
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| Minnesota... looked in the mouth of one of them and some had gut hooked the fish with a sucker rig. With good intentions they had cut the rig but reguardless still alot of fish dying. If i saw five I wonder how many I did not see. |
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| what lake is this? people should know if they have been fishing this lake recently.. my email is [email protected] if you do not want to post... folks need to know the results of their release to improve. |
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Posts: 743
| if Frustrated fishes these lakes all the time, he would notice an increase in the amount of dead fish and the increase in the amount of sucker fisherman. if you are seeing more boats fishing suckers and more dead fish, it's safe to assume the sucker fisherman are killing them. looks like MN is about to catch up WI on sucker consumption. wasn't it only 6 years ago with most MN fisherman would mock people who used suckers and preached how it's not sporting? now you cant import suckers to MN fast enough. |
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Posts: 400
Location: North/Central WI | I guess I'd be frustrated rather than fustrated, but that's just me. I'll bet my boat that more fish are killed on rubber baits on an annual basis than livebait. I've had a couple hundred caught on livebait out of my boat with 0 dead fish. Novice anglers can kill muskies in a lot of different ways...
Edited by NateOz 10/20/2011 3:13 PM
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| Sucker fishing has been practiced in Minnesota for as long as anywhere else. It's been a fall tradition for ages to fish pike with suckers, it's just that people don't seem to care as much whether or not pike get killed.
More anglers are fishing for muskies every day, and live bait is a natural switch for folks who have already been using it all their lives to catch pike.
More education (or continuuing it) about properly using quick-strike rigs and safe handling will help. Heck, Wisconsin just banned single-hook swallow rigs!
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| its obvious sucker fishermans kills some musky,its just like any other species when fished whit live baits
http://projectnoblebeast.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2009-01-01... |
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Posts: 400
Location: North/Central WI | Huh? |
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| frustrated
name the lake every lake in Minn is getting pounded so you wont be giving anything away..
I do know of one guy who fishes city lakes who has the policy when the fish takes the sucker,smoke a cigarette then its time to set the hook,,,is it metro??? |
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| happy hooker - 10/20/2011 3:29 PM
frustrated
name the lake every lake in Minn is getting pounded so you wont be giving anything away..
I do know of one guy who fishes city lakes who has the policy when the fish takes the sucker,smoke a cigarette then its time to set the hook,,,is it metro???
i would bet it is not a metro lake... i would bet further north...metro lakes hardly have enough fish in them to have 5 floaters when there is only 100 fish to begin with, unless its calhoun |
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Posts: 203
Location: Minnesota | Granted... I can see Frustrated's perspective... but on the other hand... I was there to witness my partner lose a presumed big one on a sucker rig... The muskie grabbed his bait and went for a fast hard run... As soon as he reeled up the slack and felt some weight, with me having the net ready and telling him to go ahead, he went ahead n set the hook... as he set the hook, his line broke... sliced clean... mind you, it was 80lbs superbraid and the whole thing transpired in less than 30 seconds... What the muskie do with that sucker, we'll never know... Also last year, I was using a Mag Pro Dawg... three headshakes later, the dawg along with 6-7' of 175# fluoro was gone... Yep... the fish apparently sheared off the leader...
Pretty much, when one loves muskie fishing... they'll have to approach the sport with an open-mind... You werent there when this fish was hooked... Yes I admit 5 sounds too high to be accidental, but who knows... Maybe the line or the leader broke while fighting the fish... maybe the angler was ignorant to know better... maybe this or that... We can only do so much to ensure the fish's survival but things do happen for a reason...
Edited by Rebel9921 10/20/2011 5:02 PM
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Posts: 285
Location: NE Wisconsin | I have fished for muskies in the Sucker State, Wisconsin for 50 years. If someone doesn't think many many muskies are not being killed by sucker fishing, they are living in a fantasy land. Sucker fishing for muskies has increased 10 fold in the last 20 years. There is not a sucker shortage, there are just 10 fold the sucker anglers trying to buy the same amount of suckers. There are popular lakes in northern WI, 1000 acres or so where on fall Saturdays there are 50+ suckers soaking at any given time. 2 to 3 per boat and 20 boats. If only one fish per Saturday is allowed to swallow the sucker too long, or if only one line is broken on the hook set, etc., per Saturday in Oct, and Nov., that is too many fish, especially if they are expected to live 20+ years to reach trophy size.
If no one ever thinks they may have killed a muskie sucker fishing, why are switching from single hooks to quick set rigs, why have we changed from 65 to 80 to 100 to 120 # test line???????
A muskie can not reach 50"s, if at 45"s it swallows a 12" sucker in 10 seconds and anglers are waiting minutes to set the hook.
There is a reason some of the well know muskie anglers "no longer" use suckers. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Those numbers apply to many other presentations too, and some are just as dangerous to the fish as a quick strike rig. I bet more are killed on soft plastics than are on suckers now that the kill rigs are pretty much gone and sooooo many folks are throwing soft plastics with multiple trebles. The multiple giant trebles on double 10s are not very safe, either. Muskies do eat 'em.
Your post indicates we need to stop fishing muskies entirely, if taken as it reads.
Why did the accepted quick strike rig switch to heavier line and no single hook in a quick strike design? Is that a serious question?
Folks need to use quick strike rigs properly, and all is pretty much well. |
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| Johnnie - 10/20/2011 10:44 PM
I have fished for muskies in the Sucker State, Wisconsin for 50 years. If someone doesn't think many many muskies are not being killed by sucker fishing, they are living in a fantasy land. Sucker fishing for muskies has increased 10 fold in the last 20 years. There is not a sucker shortage, there are just 10 fold the sucker anglers trying to buy the same amount of suckers. There are popular lakes in northern WI, 1000 acres or so where on fall Saturdays there are 50+ suckers soaking at any given time. 2 to 3 per boat and 20 boats. If only one fish per Saturday is allowed to swallow the sucker too long, or if only one line is broken on the hook set, etc., per Saturday in Oct, and Nov., that is too many fish, especially if they are expected to live 20+ years to reach trophy size.
If no one ever thinks they may have killed a muskie sucker fishing, why are switching from single hooks to quick set rigs, why have we changed from 65 to 80 to 100 to 120 # test line???????
A muskie can not reach 50"s, if at 45"s it swallows a 12" sucker in 10 seconds and anglers are waiting minutes to set the hook.
There is a reason some of the well know muskie anglers "no longer" use suckers.
Not sure where you are fishing, but in my area of N/WI there are far fewer muskie anglers than any time in the past. All the resorts are gone, and there are no longer dozens of camp boats on every lake every weekend. I believe the answer to your question is simple - the switch to Q.S. rigs and heavier line etc. is so we don't kill fish sucker fishing. I don't fish with live bait all that often, but I find your statement about the "well known anglers" not fishing with live bait to be laughable. Again, I'm not sure where you are fishing, but I've found just the opposite. All of the "well known anglers" I've come in contact with fish with live bait. In fact, most of the good ones stop casting all together when the water reaches about 55 degrees, and exclusively fish with live bait for the remainder of the season. If done right, it is a perfectly effective and safe way to fish, and I suspect no more dangerous to the fish than any other method we use.
If there are 20 boats on a 1,000 acre lake on a Saturday, all fishing with live bait... How many of them are fishing in an area where they are likely going to encounter a fish anyway? How many of them will actually hook a fish? How many, out of the ones who DO actually hook a fish, will kill it in the process?
I'm not exactly a champion of live bait fishing, probably only done it a few dozen times over the last several years. But it's been my experience that you still need to be in the right spot, with your suckers at the right depth. And the feeding windows tend to be very short - you may see action for 15 minutes, and if you're lucky it will happen more than once in a day. So again, 20 boats on a Satuday... I'd be very surprised of that amounts to 10 fish caught in a single day on that lake. How many guys are out there on a Saturday in July? And how many fish do you suppose are caught then? How many of them are caught by guys without good nets, good release tools, who drop them or put them in the floor of the boat, and hold them out of the water for 10 minutes taking a gazillion pictures?
When you set the hook and put 5/0 treble hooks into the mouth of a fish, and fight that fish, catch that fish, net that fish, and unhook it? Bad things are bound to happen. This might not be a popular statement, but when I go muskie fishing, I go out there to catch the #*^@ things. I do the best I can to release them unharmed, because I know that's the right thing to do. And, I do it so I can catch them again. And, I might add, as far as I am concerned, a muskie is pretty well worthless for any other purpose than catching them. They're certainly no good to eat. They're ugly, the smell bad, they eat everything, they're expensive to raise and stock. And they attract some of the most ignorant, obnoxious, self righteous and entitled anglers I have ever met. If they weren't so much fun to catch, I'd lump 'em in the same catagory as carp! 
Edited by esoxaddict 10/20/2011 11:34 PM
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | from reading some of the posts on here in the last week it's hard to believe there are any Muskies left in Minnesota....But From some of the pics I have seen this week from a few guides up there I don't think they have gotten the memo yet... |
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| i have seen many suckers video, everybody is using a qsr but i have not seen a single fisherman who have set the hook once the bait have been grabbed.was sure the primaly purpose of that rig was to avoid that long waiting
just a lil onservation
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| Rebel9921 - 10/20/2011 5:00 PM
Granted... I can see Frustrated's perspective... but on the other hand... I was there to witness my partner lose a presumed big one on a sucker rig... The muskie grabbed his bait and went for a fast hard run... As soon as he reeled up the slack and felt some weight, with me having the net ready and telling him to go ahead, he went ahead n set the hook... as he set the hook, his line broke... sliced clean... mind you, it was 80lbs superbraid and the whole thing transpired in less than 30 seconds... What the muskie do with that sucker, we'll never know... Also last year, I was using a Mag Pro Dawg... three headshakes later, the dawg along with 6-7' of 175# fluoro was gone... Yep... the fish apparently sheared off the leader...
I am sorry, but these are the types of things that really hurt lakes...if a fish swallows a bait fine... but in my experience and through buddies these types of things do not happen unless you have faulty equipment...CHECK your equipment and buy quality stuff... along these lines there are so many guys without nets and tools lately , casting w/ spinning rods these types of things are will sure help fishing in the future
Pretty much, when one loves muskie fishing... they'll have to approach the sport with an open-mind... You werent there when this fish was hooked... Yes I admit 5 sounds too high to be accidental, but who knows... Maybe the line or the leader broke while fighting the fish... maybe the angler was ignorant to know better... maybe this or that... We can only do so much to ensure the fish's survival but things do happen for a reason...
I am sorry, but these are the types of things that really hurt lakes...if a fish swallows a bait fine... but in my experience and through buddies these types of things do not happen unless you have faulty equipment...CHECK your equipment and buy quality stuff... along these lines there are so many guys without nets and tools lately , casting w/ spinning rods these types of things are will sure help fishing in the future
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Posts: 400
Location: North/Central WI | So Johnnie-
What method are these "well known" muskie anglers using in the late fall now that they "no longer" use suckers? Rowtrolling? Can't remember any trophy fish being killed using that tactic recently. Umm...wait...nevermind...can't go there...off limits... |
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| Im starting to wonder is "Frustrated" doing some SUCKER fishing right here???
fishing for a pro vs anti livebait debate |
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Posts: 11
| I refuse to fish live bait. Why? Becuase I want follows. Period.
Edited by Stine Ball 10/21/2011 10:37 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I haven't fished live bait alot, but when I have we had all SORTS of action around the boat without the fish taking, including follows. One mid 40ish fish followed the sucker for over 100 yards on a fairly slow drift. I got tired of looking at the thing. |
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| Follows make for some great pics! |
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Posts: 11
| Amused - 10/21/2011 10:25 AM
Follows make for some great pics!
And even better mounts! Got a solid 52.5 x 25.75 follow I had last year done up - its sweet!
Edited by Stine Ball 10/21/2011 10:37 AM
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Posts: 61
Location: Anoka | Hey fustrated your seeing 5 dead fish really concerns me if you dont mind giving me a pm to let me know witch lake.
I would like to look into this I spend alot of time on the water and if you seen 5 dead fish on a MN lake it would be worth going out and see whats going on thats alot of dead muskie to see in mid october thanks. |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | pepsiboy - 10/21/2011 1:12 AM
i have seen many suckers video, everybody is using a qsr but i have not seen a single fisherman who have set the hook once the bait have been grabbed.was sure the primaly purpose of that rig was to avoid that long waiting
just a lil onservation
Pepsiboy- Obviously you have never fished with Howie Meyer. His sucker fishing quick strike technique is to set the hook as soon as the clicker starts or as soon as you feel a hit/weight on the sucker if you're holding the rod - literally a matter of a few seconds. Also no multiple hooks, and no rubber bands involved in rigging the sucker. Lift off rig - what a joke. Howie's basic concept behind the hook set is to try & break the rod. Howie's sucker fishing quick strike technique really works, and it doesn't give the fish time to swallow. I was not a fan of sucker fishing before I fished w/Howie , as I had never done it before the first MF Presque Isle outing in late October, after the first time out with Howie I knew he had shown or more correctly taught me an effective tool to put big fish into the net. BTW: I grew up fishing pike w/ live bait.
The USA economy is in the tank, but I wish I could be up there in Presque Isle w/ the October Fish Club. Stick some big ones, guys. "That sucker sure is acting nervous". Is that Nessie? Nah, its Saint1 taking a dip in Presque Isle!
Have fun!
Al
(Presque Isle Oct 2006 006a.jpg)
(Presque Isle Oct 2006 011a.jpg)
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 Presque Isle Oct 2006 006a.jpg (50KB - 196 downloads)
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Posts: 22
Location: Minnesota | I fish suckers in november. that's all i do in late season. I have NEVER had a fish hooked even remotely close to the gut. Never. Hearing the clicker is just as exhilarating as seeing the follow. I spend alot of time fishing suckers, alot of time. As soon as I can get my boat behind the fish....which takes only seconds... the hook is set. I don't get how you can blame all this on live bait fishing because you saw ONE fish with what you PRESUME to be a rig in his gut. I spend countless hours on metro(MN) lakes and have never seen a dead ski in oct-nov. let alone one from rigging. AND THESE ARE METRO LAKES where the citidiots fish. I'm guessing you found a fish with it's esophagus ripped up and blamed it on the first thing that crossed your mind. Guys draging meat. Get real, sucker fishing is not going anywhere. It's here to stay. A novice angler today is a veteran for the future. Some one to stand up for the sport when we're all dead. Everybody has to learn sometime, especially in a sport as popular as muskie fishing has become. I feel bad when I see a HUGE buck dead on the side of the road in november, but I don't tell people to stop driving at night cause there rutting. Shoot... that's just life. We all die one day. |
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Location: Watertown, MN | Musky 03
We there has been several dead ones found with rigs still in the mouth, they broke the line, in he past 2 years in the metro. So never say never.
Troy |
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