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Posts: 374
Location: Bemidji | This is coming straight from the MN Darkhouse President Tim Spreck:
“In previous years, I wondered what had happened to spearing on Cass Lake,” Spreck said. “I was told it was a phony study that got the lake closed.”
“If we can make a case for this lake, we can make a case for others,” Spreck said. “This is the first domino, and it fell hard. Darkhouse association members and other spearers are responsible people; they are not out there to spear everything.”
This session the Darkhouse is letting it be known that they are trying to get other lakes lifted from spearing bans.
Here's a few reads from the Cass Lake Times:
http://www.casslaketimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=arti...
http://www.casslaketimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=arti...
http://www.casslaketimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=cate... |
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Location: Bemidji/Cass Lake | I softened some on this issue but I do have a real problem with how this got passed. This issue was shot down last year due to public input and then again this year when it came time for the governor to sign it. It was absolutely snuck into the special session bill signing during the government shutdown. People had no chance to voice their opinion on it for a third time. I dont know how anyone can argue that this was a proper way to get this done. It's a real shady deal.
I keep hearing about this "look and release" thing but all the spearers I know sure dont practice that, and I dont know why'd you spear Cass other than a better chance to kill a fish over 10lbs. There are many lakes in the area with better pike populations than Cass but the real big fish aren't there, and that goes for other lakes on the chain.
In the end though, more big fish will die but I'm not sure it will be significant enough to show. I just dont know what you do with a 13lb northern that four 3lbers cant do. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | '“I looked on what little I was able to do ... as my duty,” said Representative Persell. “I was happy to work on that.” He also gave credit to other key members involved in the effort. “It made it easier to do with your support. It takes the effort of the whole town,” he told those in attendance. “It was the right thing to do. We got Cass Lake open for everyone to fish the way they want. While I’m usually a big supporter of the DNR, they had some holes in their science in this study. Now we will work to protect it. We need to be conscientious and protect the resource for everyone to use.”'
Fisheries managers are scientists and hired to do the job based upon their education and qualifications, and politicians are not. It shows.
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Location: Bemidji | Interesting to see the creel survey that will take place in 2012. It might take a few years for the trophy nothern pike population to decline but it is inevitable.
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Location: The desert | sworrall - 10/17/2011 8:04 PM
'“I looked on what little I was able to do ... as my duty,” said Representative Persell. “I was happy to work on that.” He also gave credit to other key members involved in the effort. “It made it easier to do with your support. It takes the effort of the whole town,” he told those in attendance. “It was the right thing to do. We got Cass Lake open for everyone to fish the way they want. While I’m usually a big supporter of the DNR, they had some holes in their science in this study. Now we will work to protect it. We need to be conscientious and protect the resource for everyone to use.”'
Fisheries managers are scientists and hired to do the job based upon their education and qualifications, and politicians are not. It shows.
I'd be interested to hear about these "holes" that this learned politician was able to determine. |
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| i cant even read that stuff and see there faces in the pictures it makes me sick!!! |
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Location: Barrington, Il | I like how the resort owner claims it has hurt is business. He has been a local only 11 years and this rule has been in placce for 23. I think he needs to work on his math. If he wanted guests in the winter why didn't he promote ice fishing for big northerns? Many more people ice fish than spear plus the fish can be released. |
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Location: The desert | millsie - 10/18/2011 11:15 AM
I like how the resort owner claims it has hurt is business. He has been a local only 11 years and this rule has been in placce for 23. I think he needs to work on his math. If he wanted guests in the winter why didn't he promote ice fishing for big northerns? Many more people ice fish than spear plus the fish can be released.
I think you missed the point of the comment. These resorts that supported the effort were likely boycotted in both winter and summer, thus hurting business. He never specifically mentions anything about winter guests. You are making assumptions. |
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| Spreck obviously is a knobhead when it comes to both thinking and speaking.
"Spreck said he beleives most spear fishermen are mindful of conservation and only take what they need, as opposed to sport angling, which can actually have a much higher mortality rate."
So spearers "need" northern pike to put "food on their plate"?
And spearing has a lower mortality rate than sport angling?
Uhm........wouldn't that be 100% for spearing Mr. Spreck?
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“We don’t need to have limitations on the methods of taking fish,” he said. “No one wants Cass to be anything less than a multi-species fishery year around. This will give folks an opportunity to try another method of fishing.
This is another really dumb quote, but I have pointed out the stupidity of this in the past on M1 when people start going on about trolling, trolling multiple lines and trolling with suckers while casting.
We do need limitations. Clearly it is an issue or they would never have imposed ANY! We just don't seem to be able to agree on what those limitations should be. In this case a declining special interest group got their way and will shortly start slicing themselves a large slice of the trophy pike pie, and a collateral damage slice of the musky pie. |
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| Wait till they start spearing walleyes.
Tom
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| It wont be collateral in the future,,, were all in the darkhouse if we dont think they will go for muskies too upcoming,, has soon has they get something they go for something else,,cass now ALL and then whataya think is gonna come next |
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MuskyFlyGuy - 10/18/2011 4:33 PM
Wait till they start spearing walleyes.
Tom
Might as well ban bowfishing too then....
And northern pike fishing in the winter... And... And...
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The debate shouldn't be about the method used to kill fish. A dead fish is dead fish.
The debate should be about what kind of a fishery we want to have and what is the best way to achieve that.
That is how you win the battle in the public sector and hopefully bends the ears of lawmakers that my have some common sense.
JS |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The issue is simple. The MNDNR had a spearing ban on that water to preserve the Muskie fishery and perhaps preserve a trophy Pike fishery as well. This wasn't a fisheries management decision, it was a legislative debacle during a time when the public couldn't follow normal protocol. Politicians have no business acting as fisheries biologists, and this one stinks. |
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Guest - 10/18/2011 5:46 PM
The debate shouldn't be about the method used to kill fish. A dead fish is dead fish.
The debate should be about what kind of a fishery we want to have and what is the best way to achieve that.
That is how you win the battle in the public sector and hopefully bends the ears of lawmakers that my have some common sense.
JS
So I assume you are against the killing of any fish?
Do you feel the same way about Deer, Ducks, Elk, Bear, etc?
How about Cows should we stop killing them too?
There is nothing wrong with killing a fish to eat it.
It is not any more wrong than killing a Cow to eat it.
Both should be done responsibly, however there is nothing wrong with either.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I'm pretty sure that's completely off the mark from what JS was trying to say. |
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sworrall - 10/18/2011 5:50 PM
The issue is simple. The MNDNR had a spearing ban on that water to preserve the Muskie fishery and perhaps preserve a trophy Pike fishery as well. This wasn't a fisheries management decision, it was a legislative debacle during a time when the public couldn't follow normal protocol. Politicians have no business acting as fisheries biologists, and this one stinks.
You might want to re-think your position.
The truth is the MN legislature had a spearing ban on that water, not the MnDNR.
So using your logic;
The initial ban wasn't a fisheries management decision, it was a legislative debacle.
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Posts: 374
Location: Bemidji |
"So I assume you are against the killing of any fish?
Do you feel the same way about Deer, Ducks, Elk, Bear, etc?
How about Cows should we stop killing them too?
There is nothing wrong with killing a fish to eat it.
It is not any more wrong than killing a Cow to eat it.
Both should be done responsibly, however there is nothing wrong with either."
I have a question. When has spearing as a whole been done responsibly? Never. Atleast with the betterment of the fishery in mind. Some individuals may choose to harvest the smaller pike but this is not the norm. ALL the studies that I have ever seen show darkhouse spearers take the largest pike possible. Thus resulting in stunted northern pike populations. One of the most interesting studies that I have read was conducted in North Dakota after they opened a FEW select lakes to spearing. The trophy northern pike populations crashed in a few years.
Like Skarie said, "What is it that we want?" A fishery with hammerhandle pike or a fishery that can produce trophy pike? According to a recent study by the MN DNR the public wants a shot at catching trophy pike. Well that cant happen when politicians turn into armchair biologists.
I suggest all vacationers to the Cass Lake to find out who supports the Darkhouse and who does not.
Edited by kevin cochran 10/18/2011 6:45 PM
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| sworrall - 10/18/2011 5:50 PM
The issue is simple. The MNDNR had a spearing ban on that water to preserve the Muskie fishery and perhaps preserve a trophy Pike fishery as well.
The other way around, actually. The ban was was to preserve a trophy pike fishery and protect muskies from accidental spearing as a bonus, since we all know the Darkies would never throw at a muskie...... 
Muskie anglers need to be careful making statements like that, putting the muskie first, as that's what their propaganda and ill-founded retorts in this silly mess are based upon. |
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kevin cochran - 10/18/2011 6:43 PM
One of the most interesting studies that I have read was conducted in North Dakota after they opened a FEW select lakes to spearing. The trophy northern pike populations crashed in a few years.
Once again you are putting your credibility on the line here.
Here is one of those credible biologists you speak of.
Doug Leier - North Dakota Game and Fish Department
http://www.youtube.com/user/DougLeier#p/a/u/2/-lH89cSRnIw
Darkhouse spearing is so detrimental, yet they keep adding new lakes year after year?
Supposedly there were not going to be any northern pike left in Minnesota after Darkhouse spearing was opened to non residents 2 years ago. Once the real numbers came out and there were less than 200 nonresident darkhouse spearing license sales in the state we have heard little to nothing about this.
The same thing will happen with Cass Lake.
A bunch of hubbaloo about nothing.
Why you would consciously waste Muskies Inc’s credibility on such a non issue just amazes me.
But as they say... Carry On....
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Location: minocqua, wi. | ^ yup |
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kevin cochran - 10/18/2011 6:43 PM
I suggest all vacationers to the Cass Lake to find out who supports the Darkhouse and who does not.
Here is a guy who supported lifting the darkhouse spearing ban....
Thanks to all of the volunteers and participants who helped make this another successful event. To date over $6,000 has been collected for the Minnesota Chapter of the CF Foundation.
http://breakonthelake.com/cf.htm
I suppose we should boycott him... and all he does for the Minnesota Chapter of the CYSTIC FIBROSIS Foundation?
Boycott him????
For what?
Because someone’s ego was bruised?
The sad thing is that some muskie people actually listened to you and did boycott him and his tournament for Cystic Fibrosis.
Edited by admin. Take this as a last warning.
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Posts: 374
Location: Bemidji | This is something that MN does not have in comparison to North Dakota:
“The legislature did give us a lot of ability to
set rules and regulations as we saw fit,” said
Game and Fish Department fisheries division
chief Greg Power.“We did take the conservative
approach, and continue to do so.” |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i thought we were talking about darkhouse spearing ... where did it all of a sudden become dark-house hates kids with diseases??
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| Against killing, hardly.
Maybe clarification is needed.
The fishery belongs to all people of MN. What kind of fishery we want should be the debate first and foremost. The best way to achieve that goal should be left up to those that know how to get there.
Slot limits work, and work very well for many species. That is a fact.
Personally I don't want any bans on techniques to kill fish.
If a lake has a slot on it, then we all have the ability to choose whether or not to fish that lake, and what tactic to use. Spear, angle, tip-up etc.
Nobody is limited to fishing only one way. We aren't born with a stamp on our heads that says we can only fish with a rod and reel or only use a spear.
Nobody is being banned from taking fish for the table.
Just because you can't use your specific favorite way to fish 100% of the time doesn't mean your being discriminated against. Life is what it is. Adapt to what options you have and follow the same rules everyone has imposed on them.
There are times of the year you can bow-hunt, rifle hunt and muzzle load for deer.
We all know when those times are and choose where and how we want to hunt.
I suppose rifle hunters could say it's unfair that they can't hunt during bow season and get some legislature to listen to them and change it.
Or they can follow the rules that all hunters follow and go at and get their deer without trying to change the system to meet their own personal desires.
JS
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | To avoid confusion and clarify, GUEST 1 is the same person and clearly marked as such.
OK, I stand corrected... sort of.
As I understand it he MNDNR supported the regulation and whether anyone likes it or not, the spearing ban was on a Muskie lakes that is a trophy fishery...right? You said it yourself, the ban also stops incidental spearing of Muskies.
Alot has happened in the MN Muskie fishery over the last 23 years, and alot has happened with the CPR ethic and with protecting the trophy Muskie fisheries and Pike fisheries Whichever came first in this case doesn't matter to me. I'm from another state, and am looking at this from the outside, and am not too worried if I upset anyone.
The ban was removed by a move at a time where the normal process could not function. When the normal process DID function in the past, support for the spearing ban stopped the action. Right?
The logic in the post above talking about the out of state licenses is flawed. That wasn't and isn't the issue at hand.
Was Doug Leier an author of the study Kevin quoted?
Was there any DNR input when the original ban was suggested and placed into the books?
Who the hell are you to talk about personal credibility when hiding behind a monitor as an anonymous sniper? Weak.
Has Cass Lake been recognized as a top destination for trophy Pike and Muskies?
I'll make this prediction:
The big pike of Cass Lake will be reduced in numbers in short order.
Bad things happen when legislators think they should manage the fisheries.
And I'll put the muskies first in any conservation argument I can and if it's tried to turn that against me, I know how to respond..been there before. Didn't matter in this case anyway, they used an end around and beat the opposition by employing bad politics. My take.
Trophy Pike take a close second. Some lakes need to be preserved as trophy fisheries and that can only happen with CPR. I have nothing against darkhouse spearing. I do have a problem with how this went down.
Bad politics.
JS, an example of what you were saying. I'm a bowhunter, and also enjoy using a rifle and a black powder rifle. This year, the rules went weird here, and bowhunting is now allowed during rifle season. Why? Not because of any real issue other than maybe many bowhunters were upset they couldn't hunt with a bow in WI during peak rut. Going to be some confrontations out there this year, I think. Mixed feelings on that one, but there it is. |
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Guest - 10/18/2011 7:57 PM
Personally I don't want any bans on techniques to kill fish.
If a lake has a slot on it, then we all have the ability to choose whether or not to fish that lake, and what tactic to use. Spear, angle, tip-up etc.
Sounds good to me...
Time to put your money where your mouth is.
Work to remove the bans darkhouse spearing in the remaining lakes in Minnesota.
If they have a slot on those lakes keep the slot; if they don't; remove the ban without replacing the ban with a slot.
You know as well as I that a sportsman with a spear or pole decides to kill the fish not the pole or the spear.
We both also know that removing the bans on the existing waters will have a very small effect on the number of darkhouse spearers in Minnesota.
So the real question is, will removing the existing darkhouse spearing bans so on certian waters the same people are able to pick up a spear for 3 months a year, rather than them using 2 tip ups during that same time period increase the amount of fish killed?
We both know it won’t.
Once again this is much to do about nothing.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | No one said the numbers of darkhouse spearfishermen was the issue.
I am a tip up angler. I put the big girls back. So do all the other tip up anglers I fish with over here. Are you telling me the battle over spearing Cass was over 25" pike? Just asking.
Will spearing increase the number of big pike harvested on Cass?
Yep.
Is that a good thing or bad thing?
Depends on what you think of Cass as a trophy fishery now and into the future.
Would the Darkhouse folks support a slot on Cass that protects the trophy potential of the Pike there?
Would you, JS?
Is Hooker right?
It's 'much to do' about something. I'd say it is about MN trophy waters and what to do to keep them that way. Right? Wrong?
Again, I'm an outsider here...just asking.
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Location: Watertown, MN | Guest1
We know the non-resident spearing was pushed through because of a politicians son who was no longer a resident could not spear, good use of public officials and tax payers money.
So if you are all for the fisheries, and what the public wants why are you so against the re-introduction of muskys in lakes? Why is the darkhouse so opposed?
Troyz |
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