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Posts: 512
| I love to musky fish, but the past few years its getting so crowded! I know its inevitable, but i miss being one of the few boats on the water chucking lures, and the fishing, which is hard to begin with, is getting tougher because of the pressure.. Thats part of the pleasure of fishing for me, getting away from it all. But now, all of its on the water too!!
Its not just musky fishing either, its all species..
Just wondered what your thoughts were on this. Dave
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Posts: 3157
| dont knnow where your from,,,but I think because of alot of what you listed, here in Minn your going to see people leave the sport similar to the flyfishing craze early 90's,, alot of people here have the same opinion,,, it is not the simple mid 40 fish anymore most times out,,,This year I have had less fish go around on a figure 8 then ever before,,
actually electronics and gps have brought a ton of pressure "still have to make em bite" sure but you have more time to concentrate on that now that you can just drive up to the reef
Edited by happy hooker 10/7/2011 1:09 PM
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| I share your option. Gotta find a way to escape the crowds (early hours, weekday fishing, different water) |
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| Every year I fish less and less during the summer months. I probably wont fish but once or twice in october. I'm waiting for november to roll around and most everyone to winterize their boats. I catch a buzz when I pull in to a launch and see the launch dock is pulled out of the water. |
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Posts: 697
Location: Minnetonka | Guest - 10/7/2011 1:23 PM
Gotta find a way to escape the crowds (early hours, weekday fishing, different water)
Or find a way to appreciate new things, all the while trying to set yourself apart...
Dave T. - I don't think you're being selfish, but I'm pretty sure humans are more bothered by the angling pressure than the muskies are. 
Edited by Hammskie 10/7/2011 3:31 PM
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Posts: 619
| The pressure is unreal.. there are alot of really good fisherman out there now that are pretty skilled.. if a fish is going to bite they will catch it and not leave many crumbs behind...in MN i would say in most lakes the populations have gone down pretty significantly on alot of lakes do to pressure..every year its getting harder an harder to catch fish. |
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Posts: 697
Location: Minnetonka | Slow Rollin - 10/7/2011 3:34 PM
The pressure is unreal.. there are alot of really good fisherman out there now that are pretty skilled.. if a fish is going to bite they will catch it and not leave many crumbs behind...in MN i would say in most lakes the populations have gone down pretty significantly on alot of lakes do to pressure..every year its getting harder an harder to catch fish.
I suggest trying to suck less, as a temporary solution to this problem.
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Posts: 1296
Location: WI | I'm having my best year ever on a body of water where the pressure is increasing each season. Put in more hours, don't live on the spots that delivered last year. If they suck this year, move on and find new areas. Maybe try lures that you don't see other people using, or slight variations of. |
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Posts: 2068
| It has to be all them darn out-of-stater's coming to mn  If you live in MN you are blessed!!! |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | I blame it on that internet thing the kids are talking about
Edited by horsehunter 10/7/2011 6:25 PM
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Posts: 797
Location: North Central IL USA | What lakes are you guys referring to? MN is the land of 10,000 lakes. They can't all be crowded??? |
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Posts: 512
| True, but not all of them have ski's in em!!
Dave |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | Or start fishing Big Body of water like LSC there can be 1000 boats on that body of water and will never see one all day. Plus LSC is on fire.
Edited by PIKEMASTER 10/8/2011 9:24 AM
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Hammskie - 10/7/2011 1:48 PM
Slow Rollin - 10/7/2011 3:34 PM
The pressure is unreal.. there are alot of really good fisherman out there now that are pretty skilled.. if a fish is going to bite they will catch it and not leave many crumbs behind...in MN i would say in most lakes the populations have gone down pretty significantly on a lot of lakes do to pressure..every year its getting harder an harder to catch fish.
I suggest trying to suck less, as a temporary solution to this problem.
Suck or not it's the truth. 10 years ago when I could fish as often as you do with dumber fish it was easy. You are part of a network of GREAT fishermen that spends 1000's of hours on the water a year. It's a hell of a lot easier when you're a part of a group like that (at least it is when I get the chance to descramble the signals of your network :} )
Muskie fishing has changed for the rank and file muskie guys, especially over the last 3-4 years. Now it seems you have to be fishing at a moon phase, outrun people to the spot, every fish has been pinned 3x a year, etc they're not quite as gullible and getting identifiable follows can be a challenge. Not to mention that they actually used to stay on the same spot and follow multiple times a day. You could go back on them multiple times a day because there was only a few others chasing them. Now you need to stick it now or not at all.
There is also the cumulative delayed mortality factor that I think we're starting to see as well. Your group catches 1000's of muskies a year. Now if you take a 3-5% mortality out of that you're looking at quite a few dead fish, and your group is pretty small. Now take a look at everyone in the state, most of whom are not as experienced fish handlers and you have a lot of dead fish. Now add in night fishing with semi-experienced guys and that goes up again.
At the end of the day muskie fishing HAS CHANGED in MN and will continue to do so. This is why we need EVERYONE's help getting new lakes, improving regulations, fighting the anti-muskie crowd, etc so we have a fishery that is worthy to hand down to the next generation of fishermen. |
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Posts: 20254
Location: oswego, il | You can't get away from the pressure. I think one thing that has happened to Indiana and Minnesota is that alot of the bodies of water have settled in to what they will be like. People also follow hot bites. You cannot get away from it. The people catching the fish are the ones getting there before the masses find out or find out how to fish it. Your never going to go to the same body of water and have the same success. |
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| 3 or 4 years ago when 50's were piling high the MN DNR surveys showed there were more females over 49" than under 49" in Mille Lacs. everyone knew then that the initial huge stocking year classes would start to fade due to a combination of natural causes, harvest, and delayed mortality. no surprise.
fewer fish plus more fishermen = tougher sledding, but it's still ridiculously fantastic. |
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Posts: 90
Location: Ohio | Muskie Treats - 10/8/2011 10:17 AM Now take a look at everyone in the state, most of whom are not as experienced fish handlers and you have a lot of dead fish. Now add in night fishing with semi-experienced guys and that goes up again. I am new to this game but why night fishing? is it because the release is slower and/or sloppier? I went night fishing once and thought it would be a PITA unhooking and releasing one at night?
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Posts: 566
Location: Elgin, IL | I don't think you are being selfish, but you are learning about reality.
Like Todd said, try some different spots.
Try multi-species fishing also as a break ?? I still like to hunt for smallies and wallys.
Or, accept the challunge of muskie fishing. Popularity and pressure, It's going to continue. Golf, duck hunting, snowmobiling, are all the same, you just have to adjust.... |
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| It's a dog eat dog world out there, why should musky fishing be excluded?
For the person who enjoys the solitude, peace and tranquility of musky fishing, look no further than the mirror if you participated in the social network for some sense of achievement. I've been apart of that group thinking my own discoveries and destinations would be shared within just the inner circle. How foolish was I ever to think so.
Within a particular metro area, I use to guide but my client rule was never to consider locals. I don't guide anymore; the new dogs on the block who guide will consider whom ever has the cash and with some, who has the most cash. Buy your way to the shortcuts instead of enduring the challenge and time; the feeling of self-accomplishment is diluted or not even considered.
The internet has local blogs where you can obtain several years worth of seasonal reports for various metro waters. Some of these bloggers experience the same results as you with their current totals far less than in years past; however, they still have the ability to put in the hours that the majority musky rank and filers cannot.
As their names advance within the upper musky world top echelon, you realize that any prior friendship or acquaintance was nothing more than a means to this end.
You're lucky to get a passing glance, a phone call today that was ever present in times past. Your knowledge core was absorded and they went onto their next victim.
Their popularity and continuance is fueled by the new; not the old. Any contact is like before, except the realization of them wanting something and not providing anything is the soup du jour.
Time marches on; nothing last forever. The current crop will be harvested, new seedlings planted. The cycle renews, yet again and again.
Guides pay their friends guide trip with another so long as the hand held GPS is online and recording.
Bow wow, bow wow, bow wow.
I don't think you're being self-fish for wanting the style of musky fishing that provides the most return back to you.
I do think though you maybe foolish for not realizing your part contributing to your problem. |
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| some truth,,but alot of extreme |
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Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'I don't guide anymore; the new dogs on the block who guide will consider whom ever has the cash and with some, who has the most cash.'
Really. I'm shocked. What a stupid way to run a business.
'Buy your way to the shortcuts instead of enduring the challenge and time; the feeling of self-accomplishment is diluted or not even considered. '
What a horrible thing to do. Shorten the learning curve by learning some of the ropes from a well seasoned protege, especially if one hasn't the time to put in to learn enough on one's own to begin the path to success. A guide trip does only that...way more to learn than a few guide days will teach.
'As their names advance within the upper musky world top echelon, you realize that any prior friendship or acquaintance was nothing more than a means to this end. '
Pick your friends more carefully, or quit resenting them, perhaps?
'Guides pay their friends guide trip with another so long as the hand held GPS is online and recording.'
That's just stupid. Any 'guide' resorting to that isn't much of a threat anyway.
---------------end of rant
Muskie angling can be just as exciting without solitude. It can be as rewarding as a group as it is alone. You ain't the first to decide to fish Muskies, and you won't be the last. There were those there before you and there will be more during and after you. Other anglers on 'your' water means you have peers, learn to celebrate and enjoy sharing the resource, as the other choice is purposeless resentment.
If you indeed need to be alone on the water, extend the effort, fish the 'off times' , or travel the necessary distance to find water where you can be alone. Don't expect that water to be nearby a major city or a popular destination. Go to the water that WAS hot but isn't anymore, it's likely to be near empty many nights. Find some small water that holds good fish of other species, if hard to get to or requires lots of work to fish the fishing will be even better, and a tight line is good for the spirit.
Muskie angling has been the fastest growing segment in freshwater fishing in the North and Midwest for years. Be happy you have a place to fish them at all, and that your choices are not just one or two destinations. Celebrate your successes and failures alike, it's fishing. Adapt, watch what others are doing and do something much different. Make sure you are on the fish, not fishing where they 'used to be'.
I'm near 60 years old, and have been a muskie angler since I was about 16. There's more opportunities for muskies now than there ever has been, and the fishing is better than I've ever seen it looking at big picture.
Enjoy.
Or not.
That's a choice, IMO. |
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Posts: 581
Location: deephaven mn | catching a muskie is hard to do, i believe in a day of muskie fishing on metro water your going to get one chance at a good fish........don't blow it, there are still times when pressure is down but its not on saturday |
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Posts: 8834
| The internet has brought all the best kept secrets to the great unwashed masses. It has also helped a great many anglers to advance in the sport, in ways and in a timeframe that a lifetime of fishing wouldn't have allowed 30 years ago. Armed with nothing more than an internet connection and the ability to read, the average angler can start out with a pretty good idea of what lakes to fish, where, and how and when, and with what. What rods work best, what reels work best, what lures work best, how to work them, when to throw them, where to throw them and at what types of structure, what times of the year, on what lakes in what areas, and even what to to trigger the fush when they follow.
And as the other guest mentioned, you can buy the knowledge, by hiring a person or 10 for a day or a week or a month who has dedicated their lives to catching muskies. As with anything else, money talks. Money gets results where lack of money never will.
Or, you can go out there, year after year after decade, blindly flinging baits at whatever and trying to figure out what happened and why, and trying to recreate that on some other lake, on some other type of spot, at some other time of year under completely different conditions, wondering why the spot you caught fish on once 5 years ago seems to be worthless today. And you can be completely oblivious to all the other resources out there, or flat out refuse to use them, because your way is "better"...
I think you will find that in the end we're all just out there to catch fish, and have a good time, learn something, and make sure that the fishing is as good (or even better) tomorrow, next year, or ten years from now.
We're all playing for the same team. How we got there really doesn't matter. If you fail to understand that, maybe you need to re-think your motivations for fishing in the first place.
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| Probably the number one element of consideration: business.
For some, musky fishing is a business, it's how they derive their lively hood.
For others, it's a sport or a form of renewal or an adventure into their concept of wilderness.
The business people will of course sell their wares and the consumer will of consequence be left to beware.
Resentment? Hardly.. Their snake oil was too transparent not to predict. Foolish for believing otherwize, spot on.
Again, look into the mirror for the reasons why, start with yourself.
And, if you wear glasses, put them on this time.
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Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | No reason for anyone here to apologize for your personal social issues, those are yours alone; deal with them however you wish without transferal.
This country and the rest of the world runs on business.
The marine and fishing business is all about actually going fishing which means all about enjoying the resource. Anyone doesn't get that can always join Green Peace or PETA for the alternate reality they seek.
The axiom 'build it and they will come' ain't just for baseball in corn fields. Tell Reeds and Thorne Bros and BPS and Gander and Stony Point and Frankies and Simply Fishing and MTO and R&H and dozens of Guides and even Treats himself and Musky Hunter and OFM and the PMTT and Paul Hartman and Spring Bay and alllll the rest of your woes and insist all these folks stop what they are doing because all the activity disturbs you. Good luck with that.
The lakes in your state and mine are not managed for your or my personal enjoyment. The tax dollars that support the framework that allows Muskie fishing to be what it is now and to expand in the future, and a few dollars from special interest groups like us and others make it so. It's a public resource, and the entire idea is commerce and public use that drives a pretty significant segment of our local economies. Without the model under which our fisheries are managed, fishing would totally suck. The more anglers we have involved the more the sport will grow and the more support we have for the sport, the more waters will be managed for muskies. Those are the facts....and it's obvious; every time there's an issue, this community is called upon to act. It's a bad idea to alienate a large section of the community...you may need them to help preserve the sport you love some day.
I openly support growing this sport and have spent most of my life doing what I can to help. Always have, and always will. No apologies there, either, and other than the fact I'm not as young as I used to be and need to lose some weight and my hair fell out, the mirror isn't a problem.
To the original question, no, 'selfish' isn't the right word. Adjust your expectations, adapt to the changes that will come your way, and support MI, your DNR, the folks who truly do try to assist in managing a good fishery and educating those of us new to the sport. Oh, and if you really do care and are up to it, find a way to engage in the battle with those who would weaken those efforts. Your state has a serious issue with special interests successfully micromanaging the resource through politics.
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| Of course you are being selfish, I can recall the last decade or so we have had to send emails and make phone calls to stop groups like no more muskie and try to stop the latest spearing bill on Cass. The internet and those people in other states made it possible for you to fish those waters as much or perhaps more than you. Not sure how involved you are in the process of protecting and promoting the fishery. We you see those other boats out there fishing realize because of the internet they were probably a key part in why the lake has muskie in it to begin with.
However I will add, nothing really wrong with feeling that way, also there are still spots to fish that have solitude and great muskies as well. Just wanted to mention the great fisheries of today are a big product of the internet and the support it allows us to organize. BR |
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Posts: 512
| Im impressed with some of the insightful people on this website..
Really interesting views..
Dave |
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| In a way. I'm with you. I enjoy being able to spend time on the water in solitude. But, more and more, you have to be willing to spend time on waters that are just plain harder to fish in order to do so. It doesn't mean you can't catch fish, it just means you have to rethink you're strategies and put some more time in imo. And learn to keep your mouth shut once you start figuring it out.
BUT.. I also think the fishing over all is far better than it was when I started fishing in the '80s. That is in no small part to fishing pressure. We all may enjoy 'solitude' but I have no reason to believe the state(s) don't look at fisheries as an investment. For them to get an ROI they need people (pressure) targeting these fish to justify their decision to manage lakes for musky - or whatever species in question.
Thats my opinion anyway. Could care less about guides, been around long enough to know most of them will come and go, its a pretty tough racket I hear. |
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| I hear what you're saying Dave---- I really do! When I started fishing the Indiana lakes around 17 years ago---there was literally NO pressure whatsoever. I fished the first weekend of Nov 1995 and only saw 3 other boats the whole weekend. As we both already know, those days are long gone. Although it has become more difficult--- good musky waters are plentiful--- and, if you can fish some off peak times/days you can STILL find some solitude. NO, you're not being selfish to wish for the "good ol' days"---just remember----the fishing, imho, has gotten better the last 17 years, even with all the pressure. Good thing that the muskies don't care how many of us are up here chasing 'em. Have a great fall---Jobu |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | At the end of the day you need to fish for the reasons that matter most to you. Larry Dahlberg has a great theory on the progression of an muskie angler:
1. Want to catch one
2. Want to catch many
3. Want to catch a big one
4. Want to catch many big ones
5. Want to catch them the way you want to catch them
If you can self identify yourself as to which category you fit into you can tailor your efforts on waters that can help you meet your own personal goal. There are still waters in MN that fit each of those categories, you just need to look around a little and be willing to travel to those areas. If you haven't, join a Muskies Inc Chapter and get to know the guys. This is a great resource that can help you get to where you want to go. (Sorry, couldn't pass on the chance to plug MI).
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