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Location: Maplewood, MN | with the weather so hot I've hung up the musky sticks for a while and headin for smallies tonight. How has everyone else been doing on different species? |
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Location: South-Central VA | Killing the bass right now!
jeremy |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Keep in mind you can kill other species as well in hot temps.  |
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Posts: 1150
| CiscoKid - 7/20/2011 1:21 PM
Keep in mind you can kill other species as well in hot temps. :o
Usually that's the point when fishing other species. Food for the frying pan. 
Walleye bite is improving now that the mayflies are done. Caught our limit (2 each) Monday night drifting harnesses across 15' flats adjacent to deep water.
Edited by MartinTD 7/20/2011 1:49 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Bass are no where near as susceptible to 80 degree temps as muskies. Plenty of research by FLW Bass alone to back it up. |
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Posts: 243
| CiscoKid - 7/20/2011 1:21 PM
Keep in mind you can kill other species as well in hot temps. :o
Great time for asian carpin'! |
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| killing the ants on the bike trails Im doing about 120 miles a week mountain biking killing my teeth too with 2 64 oz mugs of mountain dew everyday |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Steve, I hate to argue this but I will.
I think the key is NOT AS SUSCEPTABLE. However, they are still susceptible. Just like muskies there is often times a lower amount of oxygen available with high water temps. I won’t preach on D.O. other than I found bass need about the same amount as muskies which is 5ppm (or whatever the scale is).
Steve any links to those studies? I would like to read up on them. The little bit I have found thus far relates to tournament fishing which adds a bit more undo stress onto a fish compared to just C&R right away. However the ones I did find indicated as water temps rose, so did bass mortality immediately (well during that day), and delayed (up to 6 days later).
If you are going to eat them have at it.
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Posts: 468
Location: Not where I wanna be! | Bass are fine until the water gets to around the mid to upper 90s, then its time to consider leaving them be. However, 90% of the upper midwest will never see water temps like that... I fish a lot of bass tournaments and box our fish in heat like this with little to no problem, in fact we put ice in the livewells and keep the recirulators going full time and have had a very successful release rates. I fish the same lakes for fun throughout the week and see no delayed mortality.
Most studies show that the warm water temps don't affect the fish in livewells as much as the increased ammonium levels in livewells during warmer weather. When in the box the fish defecate often and that makes the water conditions poor, which only gets worse with warmer water temps. To avoid that, ice and constant fresh water is the ticket.
Bass are warm water fish and we will most likely never see too warm of water temps in the upper midwest to NOT fish for them...
Edited by THA4 7/20/2011 6:18 PM
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | This is all I have been able to find, or many similar to it: http://www.fish.state.pa.us/images/fisheries/info_sheets/cr_mortali...
http://www.texs.com/bass_mortality_study/study.htm
However, upon searching I did run across this interesting paper. It talks about more than trout as the title may suggest. Casselman is the author.
http://www.wildtroutstreams.com/CatchRelease/catch_and_release_revi...
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Posts: 426
Location: Perryville, MO | Yeah...I may take a beating here but I think Travis has a fair point .
Last year about this time my fishing buddy was on the Ohio river during the Golconda tourney. He took a whole lot of pictures of "bellied-up" bass after the weigh-in as he was sitting on the river in his boat (I'll see if he's still got them and post if it's necessary "evidence" to what I'm suggesting...but would rather not lest they get used for an unsavory purpose). Most disturbing was the fact that two of the "professionals" were laughing about the situation (he had a picture of that as well, in fact one of the guys was clearly pointing at a soon-to-be dead fish with a smile). He noted in the neighborhood of 30 fish that he could see struggling on the surface. Some had already completely expired. Best guess would be the rest were on their way to the same fate, not to mention the untold others that would eventually suffer the same but had enough in them to get below the surface.
I live in SE Missouri and fish Southern IL primarily. We do in fact see temps in the low to mid 90 range rather regularly this time of year. I grew up and still fish largemouth quite a bit. My experience is that high temps (low oxygen) will still kill even this hardy fish. Not as susceptible...true. But let's not assume (or even take only what we want to hear from solid studies) that high temps and excertion in low oxgenated water (apparently even a river) won't kill 'em.
My buddy didn't make a big deal over the situation. He's no "tree-hugger" or crusader. But it was a disturbing scene for anyone who loves the resource. I post this here because the likelyhood of someone using it for an animal rights (oxymoron in itself) agenda is pretty low. I/he has no desire to see tournaments recieve negative attention over this unfortunate situation and the lack of decency on the part of two anglers.
While I suspect that their exists some solid research that a fishery isn't significantly harmed by tourneys in hot weather conditions, I can't help to wonder if some of that isn't self-benefitting. Bass fishing isn't muskie fishing in many ways. Different "animals" for sure. Not only the quarry but also the trappings, i.e. money, big money. So it just seems a little too benefitting to me that Steve mentions studies undertaken by those that directly benefit from large tourney purses. Maybe I misunderstood. Like I said, I'm sure there is some solid research, but my experiences and the experiences of others say that those who truly love the resource might use better judgment or at least not kid themselves that every fish they release in a hot water situation has a great chance of surving. Of course there exists an untold number of vairiables. Including the fact that bass are plentiful, and in many systems even big bass.
I have no major issue with someone practicing C&R in a hot water situation, but that guy better then take it easy about his preaching to others on his standard of ethics. A little consistency goes a long way with me. Just depends on where you are on that scale, that's all. Further, I'd like to still trust the DNR biologists (maybe a little naive with all the politics involved) as to what will and will not harm a particular fishery. The reality is that on certain fisheries some attrition is likely beneficial.
I tend to leave them alone if/when we move into the mid 90 range. Maybe its for their benefit, maybe just my own as it gets hard to be out there. Thankfully I got so many "honey-do's" (and a frezzer full of 'gills) that I'm just thinking about October when I can return to chasing ski's.
Let the beatings begin for agreeing with Travis.  |
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Location: Yahara River Chain | Here another point that you failed see. The folks on this board are NOT keeping the fish in the livewell unless they are keeping them to eat. Makes a real big difference if you release fish right away. |
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Location: Ft. Wayne, Indiana | Fact is there are waaaayy more bass in a lake than there are muskies....so if a couple die it's not going to effect the fishery near as much as fishing for muskies in hot water. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | hawkeye9 - 7/21/2011 9:36 AM
I have no major issue with someone practicing C&R in a hot water situation, but that guy better then take it easy about his preaching to others on his standard of ethics. A little consistency goes a long way with me. Just depends on where you are on that scale, that's all.
This is the reason I challenged the thread. I am not a tree hugger, but if you preach about not fishing muskies in hot weather then you should also follow those same rules for all fish.
I looked more last night, and still can't come across any articles or research as Steve and THA4 mentioned. I could use some help fellas. |
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| its just the stress on the fish and taking off their slime...u touch a bass all over its going to leave marks or kill it the same it will with a musky or any other fish... some fish are a little hardier than others usually the bigger the fish the less it can take just like people ... chubby pple dont take as well to stress as skinny pple usually haha |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Billy B - 7/21/2011 10:14 AM
Fact is there are waaaayy more bass in a lake than there are muskies....so if a couple die it's not going to effect the fishery near as much as fishing for muskies in hot water.
It sure will make a difference if you are a good bass angler, and catch trophy bass. A trophy out of a system is a trophy out of a system. Shouldn’t matter if it is a Musky, Bass, or a Bluegill. Being ok to kill fish just because there are more of them is a pretty poor way to treat a resource. If you expect anglers of other species to respect muskies the way you do, you should probably respect those other species the way they do.
Again this all goes back to if you are one that preaches not fishing for muskies in hot water. If you don’t preach it and don’t follow it then it doesn’t bother me one bit if you target bass in hot water temps.
Edited by CiscoKid 7/21/2011 10:45 AM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | you're an entertaining sort travis ...
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I said Bass are far more able to handle 80 degree range temps than Muskies, and they are. A member of the sunfish family, they do much better in higher temperatures than Pike and Muskies do.
Listing a transport tournament as an example isn't even on the same planet as fishing bass as we do. I'm catching most of the Bass we are boating right now out of shallow water, pitching surface slop lures and spinnerbaits. The battle is usually way less than a minute, too. And the fish fortunate enough not to end up in the frying pan are released back into the same depth water they are caught from and never livewelled.
Bass are native to and survive well in systems that would not support muskies at all. OFM is also covering the FLW Bass and BASS Elite and Post Season events across the south, and the account above is an anomaly, not even a sort of almost once in awhile occurrence. The telling of it is a bit off too, painting Bass Pros with a VERY unfair broad stroke. All we've met were quite conscious of displaying a strong conservation ethic.
I'll fish bass in 80 degrees. I won't fish anything except gills I want to eat in 90 degrees or warmer up here, but that ain't what we were talking about...is it.
Muskies are not Bass, and Bass are not Walleyes.
Most of the studies showed that tournament delayed mortality was less of an issue in all species if the fish are not penned, and are cared for in the process of the weigh in when talking Bass. Many states now won't allow a transport/release Walleye event in summer temp warm water, shutting off Walleye tournaments other than AIM during that timeframe. AIM has catch, photo, immediate release, and even Iowa allowed a summer tournament for them this year.
Under Travis's deal, the South would have to shut down all angling in mid April through late September to protect the resource. Fishing there's pretty darn good, pressure is immense, and summer bassin' is a popular and far less harmful to the resource activity than is being portrayed here.
As an aside, I didn't fish league this Tuesday because I felt temps were too high on Boom for Muskies. I'll not fish Muskies until temps get below the 80's again. And...I'm not 'preaching' anything, I'm just personally following what I've been told by multiple fisheries biologist types to be sound conservation practices. Not one has advised me to avoid bassin' in 80 degree water. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Sled as your signature suggests I am just trying to keep it real. Lot of guys have an attitude that you can’t harm a musky, but who gives a rats tail about the rest of the fish.
Steve, I pre-cursed my links with knowing it was a tournament setting for the research. I also stated that is all I could find. I am asking for help in pointing me to the research that FLW BASS did to back it up. I would like to learn, and have a constructive discussion on the topic.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Don't have the time right now, I'm at the FLW Walleye Tour event on Bay of green Bay out of Oconto and am buried until weigh in, and then until about 10 PM. Much of what I have learned came from books that were written to be applied to fisheries biology ed. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | please don't use me as your excuse ... you're doin' a fine job on your own. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | sworrall - 7/21/2011 10:51 AM
Many states now won't allow a transport/release event in warm water, shutting off Walleye tournaments other than AIM. AIM has catch, photo, immediate release, and even Iowa allowed a summer tournament for them this year.
sworrall - 7/21/2011 11:09 AM
Don't have the time right now, I'm at the FLW Walleye Tour event on Bay of green Bay out of Oconto and am buried until weigh in, and then until about 10 PM. Much of what I have learned came from books that were written to be applied to fisheries biology ed.
Apparently the water isn't considered too warm yet? I know a few years back when the FLW was in town , and out of the fox River, there were a pile of fish that died due to warm temps.
Keep in mind Steve et al I did not mention what temp you shouldn’t be fishing bass or any other species. Take a look at my first post. All I am saying is it isn’t necessarily the right thing to do to target other species just because you have heard on here and other sites that you shouldn’t target muskies once the temps near 80°.
I would like to know what the guideline is for bass, or any other species for that matter.
From the link I posted above by Casselman: “Mortality has also been found to increase with water temperature in smallmouth bass (Cooke and Hogle, 2000), largemouth bass (Gustaveson et al., 1991; Meals and Miranda, 1994) and striped bass (Nelson, 1998).”
Problem is at what temps are we talking about?
Steve whenever you get a chance I would be interested in knowing what your books say as far as a temp we shouldn't be targetting them at. Whether you post it here, pm me, or email is fine. I sense most are taking my tone incorrectly, and some just drive to cause problems.
Edited by CiscoKid 7/21/2011 11:27 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Apparently not.
I'd like all tournaments to go to Paul Hartman's CPR...AIM did. That said, the numbers the tournament guys are responsible for are, according to my experience working with Walleye tournaments for over 30 years, deemed 'insignificant' as an impact on the overall population.
That said, FLW does a good job keeping the fish alive the anglers are successful bringing in kickin', take a look at their weigh tanks, in water weigh in, and state of the art release boat. |
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Location: Cedar Falls, IA. | I have fished a ton of farm ponds and private quarries in the dead of summer. One quarry in particular we fish 2-3 times a week and it is nothing to have 40 to 50 fish days between me and my brother. The only fish that die on us are the ones we keep for the quarry owner if he feels like a few bass for his freezer. That is enough scientific research for me to conclude that bass fair quite well in water temps above 80 degrees.
The OP said nothing about fishing a tourney.
Edited by MikeCf 7/21/2011 11:57 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | And, by the way, Bass fishing in Oneida County is off the charts good.
Bluegill fishing has even been better. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Steve, I assume Largemouth Bass (black bass) can handle higher temps than smallies. Any idea how much more, or at what temp we shouldn't target smallies? |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i been slaughtering the bass all summer long. they didn't like the cool-down a couple weeks ago and went awol for a couple days, but the action has been red-hot on the dock and boat-house fishing with wacky and texas-rigged worms, lizzards and tubes. deep water holes near rock weed combo have always held big largemouth bass on the chain ... find em and fish them finesse-style with soft-plastics.
bass = swimming turtle ... durable sob's that if allowed, will dominate ... they eat like gils and should be harvested without worrying about any ill-effect.
when we lived in tennessee we fished em with black-lights and fluoro line at night (full line-up of products for summer hot-weather night fishing) ... beating the heat has never been about the fish, but the fisherman.
Northern Wisconsin Bass Fishing is absolutely fantastic and if you haven't/don't do much of it you might be surprised at just how much fun and how much success you'll find ... |
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| In our farm pond the LM bass are in 9" of water right now with surface temps over 85 (its bath water).....they thrive in "hot" water. LM Bass are pretty hard to kill. No scentific study need in a 2 acre pond - you could see the fish if they died after catching. |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Not sure where the facts in this article came from, but it does list the high end range for largemouth bass.
http://www.bassfishingandcatching.com/largemouth-bass-habitat.html |
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Location: Ames, Iowa | Almost of us muskie guys fish in northern waters, meaning that the temps we are fishing are cooler- that's a fact. Southern Missouri, Illinois, Indiana that have been brought up are another story. If you fish in southern waters that are warmer, you will have a longer muskie layoff. That's a fact. Haven't seen surface temps past 84 degrees on Leech or any other Minnesota, Canada lake during my frequent May thru October trips there for the past 20 years. Like most muskie anglers, when it is over 80, I am after perch, bass, walleyes, northerns- fish that can handle those temps better that masquinongy. There is no issue to debate here.
"Steve, I assume Largemouth Bass (black bass) can handle higher temps than smallies"
Cisco- Now it sounds like you have it. |
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