|
|
Location: Contrarian Island | Having a discussion w a couple musky buds about this....one was saying in a particular season he had 71 total follows and caught, 55 fish...so he had action from 126 fish..almost a 1 to 1 ratio..which boggled my mind since the last 5 or so years I've been keeping track of follows, strikes, misses, lost, caught...and for my boat it usually ends up at the end of the season in the 5 to 6 fish follow for every one that hits the net...
ie, 600 follows, 125 in net...
best season was around 168 in net, but total action from 850 or so fish.
curious what others have seen for a season...could you get it to a 1 to 1 ratio? seems crazy for a caster to move 2 fish and catch 1 of the 2...???? again over the course of a season, not an hour, or day or week...averages...
Edited by BNelson 6/8/2011 1:06 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 1245
Location: Madtown, WI | That is very hard to believe.... 1:1..... Not that there isn't some crazy stuff that happens in this sport, but 1:1 sounds out there!! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | how many chicks contacted for every one netted smellie? is there a potential corellation there? could you be onto something much more cosmic??
Editors Note:
Chickens?  |
|
| |
|
Location: Contrarian Island | Sled..funnny. I'm much better at catchin muskies! ;o) |
|
| |
|
Posts: 785
| I Don't log follows but I know I'm at about a 1:1 ratio. Have lots of days with 2 or 3 boated with no follows. They either eat or I don't see much. Hearing guys like you makes me wonder whats up that I don't raise that many fish. I know guys who get 10-15 follows a day with not many in the boat and I'm sure they'd like to trade me lol. You've managed to get the best of both worlds though!
I count everything 30 and bigger and last 3 years my "average" has been right at about 45-46. Was thinking maybe that was a factor but I'm pretty sure some of you guys are running good average sizes and getting lots of follows so not thinking that's the reason. Weird.
Edited by musky-skunk 6/8/2011 1:33 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I'm at probably 7 to 1 lifetime, and it depends on the water quite a bit. One year we were literally 1 to 1 in my rig, but that was, apparently, magic caused by some cosmic interaction I can't repeat. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2088
| Definately depends on water you are on and time of year! LOTW you can catch ALOT of the follows some weeks 80% ..Also, thinking of one lake in the fall... if you can get them coming it's usaually game over! 70-80% of the follows eat!....getting them coming is the hard part. On the other side... I was on a heavily fished MN lake one september week and had 20+ lazy follows every day - you were doing well to get one or two to eat!......it wasn't about technique the fish just saw the boat and did the "slow sink" out of sight ....even the ones I caught....4 just decided to spin back around and eat.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 2088
| Other variable would also be baits used .....I assume 1-1 for a season the guy threw ALOT of 10's |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Depends a lot on fishing style as well. I am at a minimum of 1:1, but may be closer to a 2:1 or higher ratio but the other way of two fish to every one that follows. And the only reason for that is because of me heading shallow on occasion. If you do the deep water thing correctly you will get few follows in an entire year. |
|
| |
|
Location: Contrarian Island | actually no Justin, that was 06...pre double 10 craze...
yes, Travis I understand you don't get many follows out over the abyss but action and catching fish is fun...I guess there are more variables to the debate but let's just say casting, and not open water casting....
Edited by BNelson 6/8/2011 2:05 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 2088
| I almost wrote blades .....my point being if your go to bait is a Weagle or glide bait I dont think you could carry a 1-1 ratio very long ...blades however you almost expect them to eat in the 8....its more of a suprise when they eat away from the boat to me.
to me some baits move a lot of fish but converting follows to strikes is a lower % ..take those baits out of your arsenal and 1-1 may be possible....I agree with you though that is a very high %
Edited by IAJustin 6/8/2011 2:20 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | How the heck can you just ignore a complete presentation method?   Does "confined" open water count? How about deep structure fishing?
Let’s just say what is your catch to follow ratio just using bucktails on Saturdays that fall on a full moon phase, and a slight southerly wind!
You should have known I would have thrown a curveball at ya!
Edited by CiscoKid 6/8/2011 2:22 PM
|
|
| |
|
Location: Contrarian Island | Travis, so you are saying that over the course of a season you and those fishing in your boat only get "a few" follow? I guess that seems a bit fishy..
I won't ignore your presentation preference but it's just another one to throw in the mix for an avg... I will agree that the open water fishing I have done I did get about a 1 to 1 ratio of hits to follows...not the same in shallower water
Edited by BNelson 6/8/2011 2:30 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 3242
Location: Racine, Wi | Brad, I'm right there with Travis. While I do fish some shallower water, I tend to fish more deep breaks, structure, and open water, and my results have been the same. Either we're catching them, or staring at water. We do get some days where the fish will follow for some odd reason, but we usually get those to eat in the 8 as well (speaking of deep water fish).
Shallow water, we tend to "see" more fish. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | In general yes we get very few follows if any out suspended. Even when I fish shallow I get few follows. An aggressive approach of jerking cranks either triggers them or turns them off I feel. There are always exceptions on some lakes where the lake is notorious for followers suspended, but on the flip side there are some lakes I am not so sure I ever got a follow even though we have boated fish from the lake.
Sure I could get follows out deep, but what fun is that? Followers for the most part to me just mean I didn’t work the bait right to trip the trigger of that fish. That same presentation and theory is what I usually do while shallower as well, and likewise have similar results.
Also what is so "fishy" about not getting follows? What is there to gain in saying I don't get follows? Sometimes on the tough days we don't get a fish and someone asks how we did I would love to say "We saw 20 fish but none ate". Instead I get to say “ We didn’t get anything”, and when they come back with “did you see any fish” I get to reply “Nope".
To each their own I guess. |
|
| |
|
Location: Contrarian Island | I guess it just seemed a bit of a stretch to say you could fish a whole season and only get "a few" follows...maybe I took it more literally than you meant...
open water is def different than shallow....I will agree that if all a guy is doing is getting follows and no strikes he's not figuring out what they want...but some days they simply won't open up....I know we've had lots of days we see 20 or more and no strikes...getting them to eat is important but finding where they are is also critical. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 366
| It depends on the water and presentation, as has already been said here, quite a bit. I'm much closer to 7:1 follows:catches lifetime as well, if not even higher. I had a weekend on Bemidji last fall where we had 35 follows, and not one actually made it into the net. That is the worst ratio I've ever had by a long ways, but then again I've had several fall trips to LOTW with days of zero follows and 2-3 in the boat twitching DD and DDD's. I love it when they just crush it immediately or halfway back, and you don't have to worry about getting them to commit, and of course days of seeing AND catching nothing all day gets tiresome as well. Figure-8 strikes are amazing too though. Thankfully, they are muskies and ultimately do whatever they want to do, so sometimes its follow, and sometimes they only move to eat.
Ryan
Edited by Fishwizard 6/8/2011 3:54 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 283
| So, far this year has been really weird for me. 8 fish in the boat and only 2 follows plus few that got off. Either they have been striking or just not chasing at all for me. Over the years it seems like totally the opposite for me. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3926
| How do you factor in the deep follows that you don't see? These would be the big lazy fish that come in 6+ feet deeper than yer bait as you go into yer 8. Most people don't even know those fish were there. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 366
| I think you count the deep follows you don't see the same as you count the fish that you don't catch, so they even eachother out in the ratio game.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 3926
| Deep follows few folk watch for, follows you can't see due to turbid water, follows you can't see due to blooms and follows you don't see at night. Bunch of unmeasured contacts.
TQM drone: "data must be proven accurate, valid and reliable prior to evaluation and subsequent decision-making"
Still like the idea, just can't make it jive within basic stats rules. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1425
Location: St. Lawrence River | 6-8 follows/misses per catch i'd say. similarly to the rest of you guys, lots of lazy followers, or a miss on a WTD |
|
| |
|
Posts: 4342
Location: Smith Creek | About 4 to 1 in Wi, 20 to 1 in Mn. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 639
Location: Hudson, WI | IAJustin - 6/8/2011 2:13 PM
I almost wrote blades .....my point being if your go to bait is a Weagle or glide bait I dont think you could carry a 1-1 ratio very long ...blades however you almost expect them to eat in the 8....its more of a suprise when they eat away from the boat to me.
to me some baits move a lot of fish but converting follows to strikes is a lower % ..take those baits out of your arsenal and 1-1 may be possible....I agree with you though that is a very high %
That's interesting to me. I don't log physically log anything, but over time I would guess my rate of fish following blades to catching them on blades is in the 6-7 follows per fish rate, but my rate on jerks/dawgs is probably 2-1. Almost the opposite.
The blade rate is probably a little skewed though, since in the spring it seems like I have a lot of fish follow blades without going and come September and October they just slam them. |
|
| |
|
| I believe that this thread really has so many different factors that need to be figured in such as : Baits used, water temps, open water vs shoreline structure. The number one factor I believe is lure selection. People such as myself that use very high percentage lures that I am able to cut down on the overall amount of followers and turn them into biters! I may not have the action from nearly as many fish but my overall bite percentage is very high. Baits such as the Creeper, Hawg wobblers, Pacemakers and topraiders it seems that I have very few follow and many biters, whereas when I am bucktail fishing I may have 5-6-15 follows per bite. I look at just this last weekend up here in minnesota where many people were cranking bucktails or using jerkbaits and seeing many fish but couldn't get them to commit, whereas my boat partner and I changed to a different presentation where we saw literally 5 fish "FAR LESS THAN EVERYONE ELSE" and had 3 of them bite and boated a 50 and a 46.5. There was a part of the summer last year where I literally wasn't getting any follows for a week but I did boat 8 fish from 45-52" while other people i know said they were seeing 20+ fish a day and not boating any. The best advice I can tell you is just look in your tackle box and grab the baits that you have had the most success with and let em fly. This will up your overall numbers of catches to follows guarenteed.
Another thing to look at is the mood of the fish, usually if I have 3 follows and no strikes I tend to change things up such as color, speed, lure depth....etc. Too many people get caught up in saying, "Yeah we saw a ton but they just wouldn't bite", and i always ask them what they used and most of the time it was the same bucktail of crankbait all day because the fish were chasing them. Where had they downsized or upsized, changed colors, speed, lure depth or just change all around tactics they probably would have caught some of those followers. I have had days on the water where I have seen 20+ fish screaming in on bucktails but not eating, so I switched up topwater or crankbaits and boated 6-8 fish. Don't be afraid to change tactics to trigger those fish,
To answer the original post, I believe yes there are baits out there that will get you down to that 1:1 Ratio, its just a matter of do you have the patience to fish them. In my opinion often it is the follows from those giant fish that keep people from not going insane on that water. I however would much rather have one shot all day at a giant fish than see action from 15 smaller ones. I hope that what I have shared will help many of you come in contact with more biter and less followers. Good luck fishing this summer and catcha monster!!! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 272
| There's sooooo many factors to this.
When I'm fishing hardheads, I get near zero follows. Often I'm fishing deeper cover or am off the break. Its just a thud and a hookset. Hair and topwater.....lots of follows. Gliders....even more.
Level/amount of pressure on your body of water also factors in, majorly I'd say. I spent a short stint in NW Ohio and fished the lakes in NE Indiana. 20-40 follows a day is not uncommon there at certain times. Especially when Webster was in its heyday. But hookups were scarce, also depending on the day.
Interesting topic, but its like asking what the best muskie bait is....
-Eric |
|
| |
|
Location: Contrarian Island | Mike,
agreed that you can choose baits that can get more bites than follows but then are you sacrificing simply catching other more active fish by doing so? food for thought...if you get your contacts/bites to 1 : 1 I would bet a lot of money the total number of fish you catch per seaons will go down vs. a higher # of fish moved.....and there is no way to say you will simply be catching bigger ones w/ the 1 : 1 ratio...in fact I think you'll catch more big ones the more fish you contact...when I look at some of my trip totals the last 3 or 4 yrs we contacted/moved and caught a lot of fish based on the hours on water and we also had a large % over 50" in there too...
imo you can have the best of both worlds...moving fish...and catching them when done right...
I'd argue that if you are not moving many but getting a bite or 2 a day you are missing lots of shots at other fish....?
I also agree, I shake my head when I hear a couple guys moved a ton of fish but couldn't get a single one to hit...we are out there to get hits, not follows..(unless they were using mantas, ha ha) .but finding them is half the battle imo.
Edited by BNelson 6/9/2011 11:57 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | I don't know Brad who is to say because you have more followss that you are contacting more fish? Who is to say that me out in the basin jerking cranks isn't having a follow every other cast, but they peel away halfway to the boat. Or that they miss the bait, and don't keep coming to the boat after?
Follows are just a confidence thing. Some need it to stay in the game, and some don't. I am not the strongest minded, nor the weekest. However if I am in a tough stretch of not catching anything I may just stick a bait on that is good for follows in the basin and chuck it just to make sure I have the location factor correct. Usually I do.
I don't think there is anything that backs up the more follows you get through the year the more fish you will likely boat compared to if you get less follows. Quite the opposite for me actually. Way back when I decided to persue deep water fishing and change my way of retrieving baits I intstantly, and quite drastcially, increased the number of fish boated in a year. Quite conversly my numbers of follows decreased drastically.
Quite simply shallow water fish react differently than deep water fish. That is a huge factor here. I may just agree with you that if you fish shallow you will most definitely have to contact more fish to catch them. Or alter your presenation aay from the norm. Afterall these fish are usually the most pressured fish. Go out deep to the less pressured fish and you may just find that every other fish that you contact is an eater, or on some days it seems every fish you contact is an eater! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 551
Location: Columbus, Georgia | Converting follows into the net at a 77% ratio (initial post claim):
Can't say I have ever known anyone who could make that claim and still keep a straight face ...
Edited by cjrich 6/9/2011 12:57 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 366
| The measurement of success is subjective to each person’s interest. Most would say the ultimate goal is to boat fish. Some are happy even on a day with nothing but a ton of follows. Some guys might only be happy if they put a +50”, or +50lber in the boat. Just cause one guy can’t be satisfied without catching Girtha every time he wets a line, doesn’t mean that the guy who is thrilled with a day seeing 15 fish and only putting hooks into one of them is a poor fisherman.
Two scenarios: One guy has a day with 3 hits out away from the boat that all make it to the net and one other deep flash off that he caught a glimpse of; The other guy had 25 follows and managed to convert 3 fish (similar sized to the first guy) into hitters and put them in the net. Who is more successful here? Well what if, among the 22 fish that the second guy couldn’t get to convert, a couple of them where supertanker +54” types? Who is more successful then? Finding out spots where the monsters like to frequent is a huge success in my book, even if I don’t ever see or contact that individual fish again. Sure I didn’t catch it, so I was ultimately “unsuccessful”, but where there’s one there’s often likely to be others sometime later.
Judge Smails: Ty, what did you shoot today?
Ty Webb: Oh, Judge, I don't keep score.
Judge Smails: Then how do you measure yourself with other golfers?
Ty Webb: By height.
By itself, the follow to catch ratio doesn’t say much of anything about muskie fishing success. Just like if all you look at is slugging percentage, or batting average, OBP, or the number of walks, etc., etc. without looking at the rest of the factors that make up the player, you can’t really say how good of a baseball player the guy is. If all you judged pitchers by is batting average, then the pitchers are the worst baseball players on a team, versus the reality that pitching wins championships, not a single guy’s batting average.
Back to the fishing, I want to catch big fish. There are days that I might catch 3 low 30” fish and be unhappy because I didn’t contact any bigger fish. Some days, and on some lakes, 3 fish in the net is 3 fish in the net. On another day, just having a good shot at a giant is what actually can make the whole trip worthwhile.
Ryan
Edited by Fishwizard 6/9/2011 1:42 PM
|
|
| |
