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| I know there are some good photographers around here that can shed some light on this subject for me. My wife and I are looking for a camera that will allow us to shoot around the house and also out on the water and outdoors in general. What would you suggest for a starter camera? We are considering a Nikon 3100. Anyone have any experience with this? Other suggestions? |
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Posts: 1184
Location: Iowa Great Lakes | Wife got me a Cannon SX20 a couple years ago, great camera IMO fo a novice, at the time it was the best there was without going DSL. |
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Posts: 32901
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | D5000, D90, D3100, all are great cameras. The 3100 is especially nice; shoots HD video with full time auto focus. Excellent glass and serious options in that department, too.
I have a Canon T2i as well, better video and availability to use wireless and wired microphones. Not as advanced in the image department, but very still very good. |
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| Thanks! A little reinforcement in the decision is always nice. I am excited to get it and start shooting.
Let's see some images from the water everyone! |
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| I have the Nikon D3100. It's my first DSLR and has been a blast to use. The picture quality is so much of an improvement over my old Olympus that it's almost laughable. The kit lens is apparently quite good, though I am finding myself wanting more range and may upgrade to a longer lens soon. Haven't shot much video, but have noticed that you can hear the auto-focus during filming. I am having problems viewing my HD videos, but that is likely a function of my flash card (Extreme SD 8 GB).
Lots of good reviews on the internet. www.dpreview.com is a good site. |
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Posts: 32901
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I recommend an SDHC Class 10 to seamlessly transfer/read that video.
I'd not use the auto focus function unless you are prepared to work on the audio track.
I highly recommend this lens for flexibility:
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=Nikkor+18+to+200&oe=utf-8&...
sweet glass...
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| I shoot still photos professionally. Shot at newspapers for ~12 years, now portrait work for going on 4. The digital SLR HD video thing is tempting, and they're making great strides, but from the pros I know in both fields, and from what I'm reading, pro publication reviews, etc., the HD video/still combo is still sub-par. Video is really jerky, AF has been somewhat problematic, etc. At least on the Nikon end of things, its a tripod-only situation.
If it were all that and a bag of chips......you wouldn't see newspaper shooters buying HD video cameras for their website stuff. They'd be buying digital SLR bodies that also do video. They're not. Obviously, your video only cameras come with alot more options, but newspapers are cheap. And even they are spending thousands on individual video only units, rather than eBaying old still bodies and buying the new video/still capable bodies.
IMO, you should buy one or the other or both, but not one to do both.
-Eric |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I disagree. The idea isn't studio photography or get the perfect shot for a magazine...then I'd ask Billy Lindner to get the shot and pay accordingly. The idea is a consumer camera that does it all, and does it all very well.
The TV show 'House' will air an episode shot entirely DSLR.
We shoot hundreds of interviews a year for the web for Anglers Insight Marketing...some with $thousands production HD cameras, and some with DSLRs. I challenge you to tell me which are shot with which.
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'The Fox drama House is known for its quirky title character, but now photo geeks are bombarding one of the show's main directors with questions on a quirky filming technique used in the season finale.
Greg Yaitanes, who directed the finale, announced on his Twitter page that the entire episode was filmed using Canon's EOS 5D Mark II digital SLR camera. He also opened up to followers who have questions on the process:
"'ll answer any questions you have about the canon 5D that we shot the finale on. yes, a stills camera that shoots amazing HD. go!"
Among the questions posed were on lenses used--"[A]ll primes and zooms made by canon for speed we often stayed on the 24-70&70-200."
And how they kept the image stable--instead of using brackets, the crew "mostly gave it a hand held feel" or used "a small tripod."The bottom line might be in one tweet, summing up Yaitanes' feelings on using a $2,500 digital camera traditionally used for stills on one of the most popular shows on network television:
" loved it and feel it’s the future."
The episode will air on Fox on May 17.
http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/the-tech-observer/2010/04/14/s...
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We see more 'live' outdoors sports video shot with DSLRs every year, and our crews receive compliments from some of the sport's top outdoor photographers and videographers regularly for the versatility and overall quality while shooting under what can only be called 'challenging' conditions. I know of at least one major fishing show using DSLR segments regularly.
Outdoors, trying to get all the action, I believe the DSLR IS the future for versatility, form, function, and lens options for the prosumer and consumer market. One thing for sure, they are the NOW for the crews trying to do what we do at the Classic Elites, FLW, AIM and MWC, etc.
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Posts: 123
| I use a D90 with various lenses. For indoor and closer outdoor shots you may want to look at a lens like the Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8. It would let in more light than similar lenses that are f/2.8-5.6, and is of good quality. I'll be taking pictures of sturgeon with it later this week on the Rainy river.  I never use the video on my D90. The focussing is quite bad without a tripod and if I wanted to shoot video I'd buy a video camera. Good luck. |
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Posts: 123
| One other thing I forgot to mention was that there are some who don't like to change lenses and would recommend an all-around lens to use for everything. That is not always the best option. It's kind of like using a cresent wrench. Sure it will work for large and small bolts, but not as well as a wrench designed specifically for each bolt. You mentioned you'd be taking pictures inside around the house. A 50-200mm would cover a lot outside but wouldn't be as practical inside as a wide angle zoom, or better yet, a 35mm f/1.8 prime. Actually, those 2 together might cover all your needs. I use a 50mm f/1.4 indoors and outside I use a 17-50mm f/2.8 or a 70-200mm f/2.8 depending on what I'm taking pictures of. As a previous poster mentioned, you can try dpreview.com and learn a lot from their message boards, which are geared to specific cameras and lenses. For example, if you're thinking of getting a Nikon 3100, you may be able to ask questions and get answers from someone who is currently using that camera on a daily basis. That can be much more helpfull than talking to the clerk at Ritz Photo. |
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| Lens Creep - 4/11/2011 6:08 AM
I never use the video on my D90. The focussing is quite bad without a tripod and if I wanted to shoot video I'd buy a video camera. Good luck.
!!!!!
Steve-
Look, to say DSLRs do it all "very well" is just inaccurate. No offense. They can do some things very well, but suffer while trying to do what most people pick them up and try to do with them. Couple snippets....
That camera is a $2400 body or a $3500 combo. That's getting pricey. If I were going to spend that kind of money, I'd get a straight video camera with no limitations. And a hulluva nice one for that price, to boot. Or a decent video camera and a decent still camera. And IMO, most consumers would come out ahead on the other end in terms of something they could pick up and get usable stuff out of.
How many muskie boats have a tripod? How many actually use it? Pretty much a requirement with DSLRs.
Professionals using a camera to shoot a TV episode, and two buddies shooting video of their musky trip are two different things. Great equipment in a novice's hands does not automatically make for a great end product. Knowledge and skill set of the consumer himself is the missing puzzle piece. It is on an increasing level the higher end you go on your camera technology.
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My advice. Whether you're buying a video cam or a still cam or a combo.....get the lens (or buy a separate lens) with a very wide angle. Most combos, most point and shoots, come standard with ~ a 35-40ish mm lens. That's pretty tight. You'll struggle to get two guys in the shot in your boat. In your ice shack, you'll have to back up to get all of one guy in the shot with a 40mm. Camera manufacturers like to offer "zooom, zoom, zoom" but few people ever use it, nor do they know how to obtain a good shot with 'zoom.' Buy a wide angle, 20-24mm. Wider if you can find it. You'll use it WAY more than your zoom.
Get what you can afford. This is truly one of those situations. And remember, all megapixels are not created equal. My D3 and D700 cameras for work shoots about 5.3mb files. At least that's what we leave them set at. Your cell phone might have an 8 megapixel camera on it, but the sensor is TINY. Your sensor is smaller than mine and your pixels are grains of sand. My sensor is 10x the size of your phone camera's sensor, and my pixels are the size of peppercorns. (Those are not scale comparisons, just for a reference) Do your homework. Learn about sensor size.
If you buy a DSLR and wish to use a flash on it, I suggest getting a "puffer." Cool little product, really softens and spreads out the very harsh and directional light from a pop-up flash. Awesome accessory.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtcFA4ep2Ic
Just my opinions. Like I said, I shot mostly stills all my career. Mostly Nikon. IMO, if you're looking to run and gun with a DSLR, and you want handheld video, you'll likely be unimpressed. Honestly, one of the best entry level video cameras I ever used was about a 1999 vintage Sony Handycam. Nice picture, very smooth video. Hi-8. Old school. But very, very nice video.
-Eric
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | http://bass.outdoorsfirst.com/watch.asp?id=3548
http://bass.outdoorsfirst.com/watch.asp?id=3535
http://upload.outdoorsfirst.com/watch.asp?id=3240
Which of these videos from the last Bassmaster Elite was shot with a Pro video camera and which with a Nikon DSLR?
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Priorities... if you want good video and decent stills buy a video camera that will do still capture. If you want great stills and mediocre video buy the DSLR. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Will, Please tell me which of the above was shot with a DSLR and which with a Pro HD shoulder mount unit.
The question wasn't about asking to do a TV show, it was which entry level camera to buy to get images and video on the water and around the house. In order to capture high definition stills using a video camera, one needs to spend too much money to get a good one, and it's not anywhere near as easy...or fun. Most of the consumer video units are video first, still if you absolutely demand one.
The Nikon 3100 will do a great job.
The new consumer priced Canon T2i offers more video flexibility than the consumer Nikon models under $1000.00. Here's a great review comparing the Nikon D5000 which I have, the Nikon D7000, which TJ is using and is not by any means a starter camera, and the T2i.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/T2I/T2IA.HTM
Zach and Carlos shoot D300s models. Note what the camera can do with lens choices and manual video settings and tell me how the resulting video is 'mediocre'. I bought mine, with everything you see here, for under $800.00 from Adorama for the camera and accessories. We literally have under $800 in the setup including the battery grip, 'roughing it' wireless microphone, shotgun mic, hot shoe video light, and extra batteries.
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 DSC_0004 [640x480].JPG (123KB - 129 downloads)
DSC_0005 [640x480].JPG (119KB - 133 downloads)
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | The audio isn't good in any of them but it's bad in the KVD video this could be the compression but probably not. The KVD video also has some ghosting and stuttering that shouldn't be there if it was shot with a good HD cam which would make me assume it is the DSLR. Some ghosting, stuttering may be the compression and not the cam. Basically it comes down to use and if hosting the file as a low quality flv or other compressed web vid is the goal then the HD vid from a DSLR will be fine. Heck, a $100 Flip shoots "good enough" HD web video. CNN even sends out some of their people with Flip cameras when the video only needs to be "good enough". I don't want to argue, this is only my opinion and I'm not saying you're wrong.
Edited by Will Schultz 4/11/2011 10:09 AM
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Location: Downers Grove, IL | Addict and Will -
You guys should know better by now then to argue ANY subject with SWorrall, particularly one that you do professionally for a living (Addict)! Just shake your head, and save and wear and tear on your keyboard.
Jeff |
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| I'm holding my SD Extreme 30 Mb/s SD/HC 8Gig card. If this is a similar card to what you and your crew use, then I'll have to continue trouble-shooting the HD video thing. That 18-200 is what I'm looking at (or possibly Tamron's 18-270mm), but am also considering a Sigma 10-20mm (in addition to the telephoto). Brad, the fast glass is nice, but my pockets don't run that deep (yet?)!
Here are a few images taken with my D3100 and its stock lens.
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DSC_1200-1.JPG (183KB - 139 downloads)
DSC_1241.JPG (166KB - 133 downloads)
saw-whet_1-2.JPG (219KB - 134 downloads)
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Hey Jeff,
Read the original question. These folks came in and offered what they would do as professionals; that wasn't the question or issue and their answer is, from how I read the question, beyond what this person wants to do.
The question was what camera would work well around the house and for general use, and I'm trying to point out what 'general use' folks all the way to the Pros are saying about the products in question while showing some examples so an educated decision can be made as a consumer. If you don't see the difference between clarifying and offering additional information and 'arguing', well....
Will, thanks, that was exactly my point. The KVD piece is for his personal blog, and done very quickly while the Bassmaster Elite event is underway covering a base for social media exposure; in short, it's a Web Blog/Facebook piece. Sure, he could be miked up with the Senheisers (or even a Sima, in this case) and placed in front of a backdrop, kick in AE lock, and roll with a Canon T2i or Nikon 7000, which will remove most if not all of the objections... but that removes the 'live, right here, right now' atmosphere.
Of course I'd recommend using a pro video camera for a commercial or TV piece most of the time, the point is that the DSLR units are successfully entering that arena as well. Some Pros bemoan the fact that the web has introduced the willingness to accept 'lower quality' while introducing the 'misery' of reality TV programming content as acceptable. Others point out that Outdoor Channel, Sportmans Channel, etc cable programming has allowed anyone with a Canon GL1 to shoot and produce a 'TV show'...some are pretty rough, some are nicely done, and that's a reflection of the editing and production... and equipment used.
Depending on what our client is looking for, we shoot from a D5000 to a D300s for stills and our DSLRs to HD DTE shouder mount cameras for video which meets 85% of the needs out there in this industry.
Beyond that, as I said, we'd call in Pros like Billy Lindner and Lindner Media for our outdoor clients, or someone like muskie-addict for our studio produced material...of course, I'd need to know how to hire the guy first.
In short, Jeff, we DO actually perform tasks described by Addict, Lens Creep, and Will professionally from web to print to studio productions for TV to voice overs and commercial production for radio...anything a client would ask for from an agency. And we know which gear is needed and who should be running that gear, and charge accordingly.
I'm admittedly a mildly educated 'hack' with far more formal education dedicated to the writing and editorial functions of journalism than experience with the technical aspects of professional photography/videography, but that said I know what folks want to see and know my way around a cmaera well enough to most of the time get the shot that tells the story, and as Will expressed, it's plenty 'good enough' for the web....and I cost way less money than Billy would charge.
The class 10 SDHC cards we use have an advertised transfer rate of 10MB/s but are limited by the machines in which they are used at times. It could be your camera will like a class 6 better, I actually see that in the Nikon D5000...it likes the class 6 SDHC 16 gig card I have better than the Class 10 for replaying video on the camera. If you are talking about viewing/editing the video on a PC, it's quite data intensive with 1080 pixels VS the old 640, and a processor under a dual core 2.2 GHz might have issues; heck, my 2.8 GHz Dual core Gamer is slower than I like sometimes. Download MPEG Streamclip or Any Video Converter to convert the HD files down to 'puter friendly compressions and run them off your hard drive instead of from the SDHC card, both are free programs and are easy to use. |
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Location: APPLETON, WI | I have a Fujifilm S200EXR. Got it for $350 brand spankin' new from B&H Photo. I have a Class 10 SDHC card for it and I'm quite pleased with the still images that I take with it. (I also have a Nikon D70) but lately, I pick up the Fujifilm S200EXR more often than not. I've been shooting D-SLR for approx. six years now and I'd like to think I'm an avid amateur photographer. I use it more so for the photography aspect than I do for the video... but of the little video I have shot with it, I'm pleased.
I currently participate in a 365Project online where you take one photo every day for a year.
All of the images that I've uploaded for 2011 were all achieved with my Fujifilm S200EXR with full manual capability.
It's not going to rival a Nikon 3100... but it's all $3,000 LESS. 
http://365project.org/scottwong |
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Just so we are on the same page, the Nikon d3100 runs around $500-$600.
I want to be able to shoot inside and out. I was figuring we would need 2 separate lenses for that. We plan on framing a lot of photos and my wife likes to scrapbook. The ability to shoot short videos is nice, but how often do you really go back and watch your kids videos? Might take some video in the boat, but don't plan on using it a lot.
I am looking for something with a faster shutter speed than the point and shoot we have. It seems like what you wanted to shoot is often moved or different by the time it makes it's adjustments and actually shoots. Pics also don't always turn out well. Figure it is a time in our life where an upgrade makes sense.
Thank you everyone for the discussion. It's helping me understand the ins and outs |
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Location: APPLETON, WI | D'oh!
Wrong Nikon model.... sorry about that. |
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Location: Downers Grove, IL | Steve, thanks for the follow-up. You clearly have a good grasp on the subject and great info to share with the original poster. I guess MY point is that when you offer a rebuttal to another's post starting with the words 'I disagree', well...
that strikes me as argumentative.
Regardless, thanks all for the info...very interesting and informative. Maybe i can figure how to get some pro quality pictures with my D5000 on a different setting than "auto".
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Posts: 167
Location: Ontario | Check out the PEN from Olympus. A lot smaller than a DSLR and I would put the quality of picture/video up against a lot of the DSLRs out there. It is a new twist on an older style camera. Do some research on it, I think you will be surprised. |
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Location: Nordeast Minneapolis | Matty got to it right before I could! IMO, I agree with the old line- 'What's the best camera to use? The one you have on you.' You could have the greatest camera in the world, but if it's too large/bulky/complicated/precious/whatever, it's going to sit in it's case in the kitchen rather than in your boat/backpack, travel bag. I convinced myself I needed a DSLR this past winter, and was studying a bunch of models... then my exploring brought me to the Olympus EP-1 (and other PEN line cameras). Considerably smaller than your normal SLR, it actually fit in the camera case of my old 35mm point and shoot. It fits in my shoulder bag (ahem.... man-purse, I know. But Jack Bauer uses one, so it's ok.) along with a bunch of other stuff, and the body is all machined metal, so I don't worry about it. Fully functional, shoots HD video, stereo audio, great still shots, etc. Plenty of reviews out there will give you all the specs. The only drawback for some people with the model I got is that it doesn't have a built-in flash, but there are other newer models in the line that do. For what I use a camera for, I don't want flash 98% of the time... and if I do, I'm probably not taking a great photo, anyway- at least not one that requires a great camera. That's what I have the inexpensive pocket camera for.
Just my opinion, but I love mine, and I know I'll have it on me all the time. Not something I could confidently say with a full-size 'normal' DSLR. |
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Posts: 123
| If you're looking to buy new, you probably can't beat B&H Photo. They're a reputable company in NYC that I've bought from for years. Google b&hphoto and you can do a search on their website. You can get used lenses from keh.com without having to worry about getting ripped off. Personally, I shy away from Craigslist and E-Bay. Good luck.
PS. If you're shooting indoors and need flash you might want to look at an SB600. Works really well to cut out red eye and gives results well worth the cost of it. |
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Location: APPLETON, WI | I cannot say enough good things about B&H Photo. I've purchased numerous items from them over the years and have not had one issue. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Same here. All of our production cameras except for an XL1S we bought there. |
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Location: Wayzata, MN | muskydeceiver - 4/10/2011 8:34 PM
I know there are some good photographers around here that can shed some light on this subject for me. My wife and I are looking for a camera that will allow us to shoot around the house and also out on the water and outdoors in general. What would you suggest for a starter camera? We are considering a Nikon 3100. Anyone have any experience with this? Other suggestions?
To the OP -
There are a couple of different ways to go. Many have weighed in on DSLR's - and they are fantastic. In DSLR's it really comes down to Canon vs Nikon, and it's a Ford vs Chevy discussion. You can't go wrong either way - but once you start buying glass you are committed to a platform. I'm a Canon guy, but Nikon is a great brand too. DSLR's will give you the most flexibiity with all the glass available, but it can get pricey in a hurry. I just keep investing in glass for my camera. After a couple of bad experiences with aftermarket (Sigma / Tamron / Tokina / etc) lenses, I won't buy anything that isn't an L series lens. The image quality is simply that much better. It's like a $20 pair of sunglasses vs Maui Jims / Costa Del Mar etc.
Another great choice is the "DSLR point and shoot". This is the Nikon P7000 or Canon G12. They do everything an SLR does without the interchangable lenses - at a $500 price point. I've got a Canon G11 that I use as my "carry around" camera.
Finally, there are the regular point and shoots - they are solid all around cameras that are made for the user who just wants to push the button and take pictures. Nothing wrong with them, but if you are looking for some creative control, look elsewhere. I've got an older Canon SD7XX that I keep in a small Pelican case in the glove box of the boat for fish pictures.
I'd summarize by asking yourself a few questions (which will help narrow down your choices)
What's your budget?
What do you want to do with the camera (you said on the water, around the house, general photography)?
Do you have kids?
What's your comfort level (AND that of your wife) with playing with technology and learning new skills?
Is portability important to you (ie - do you want to be able to put in your jeans pocket)?
Ask yourself a few of these questions and it will help narrow it down for you.
I love B&H as well - and have had a lot of good experiences at Best Buy as well.
Good luck!
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| I just purchased a D3100 kit with 2 lenses and a bag, I got the 18-55 and 55-200 both VR (vibration reduction) lenses which are a must for taking pics on the boat or without a mono or tripod. I too wanted something easy to shoot with while fishing and to have a camera that is a step above a point and shoot. A couple things, I purchased this camera as a starter model because I'm a noob and didn't want to drop a ton on glass or the body...yet the D3100 is small and I like that and guide mode has helped me a ton, I went with Nikon because my brother has a D90 and Nikon just felt right to me just like I'm a chevy guy vs ford. Ilike the menus and style of the Nikon over the Cannons better as well The D3100 does not have a motor in the body like the D90 not sure about the D5000 or the brand new D5100 I know the D7000 does, so the glass you buy will have to be able to auto focus on your own.
I have a very nice sony HD camera so this DSLR was not purchased to take video, and honstly I don't even know how to take video with it although I've read about it and it's short comings I have yet to even try, I have a camcorder for that.
For the money the D3100 can't be beat, I think it's a great buy and it will defintely suite your needs very well if it's your first DSLR, the picture quality is awesome and it has the same sensor as the other Nikon models. Check out ken Rockwells http://kenrockwell.com/nikon/d3100.htm for his review of it. |
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Anybody have any experience with the Canon t1i???? pros and cons? Looking for a camera for good outdoor shots.....The camera come with a ef-s 18-55mm lens and im thinking of getting a canon 55-250 f/4-5.6 telephoto zoom lens with it also....And a decent tripod...
If anybody has any info that would be great....
Thanks,
John |
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