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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Not sure if this is old news or not, but it comes up every year.
I was driving in N.Mn. 2 weeks ago and they were talking on the radio about it... they seemed to think it may become a reality in the next yr. or two.
Soooo,.... What do you think? Some think that this will HURT the fishery.
I like the Idea of being able to troll 2 lines in mid Nov. or have 1 line with live bait hanging over the edge while Casting..
Jerome |
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| Make it 2 lines per person and only 1 can have live bait |
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Location: 31 | My opinion as a conservationist is that it's a major step in the wrong direction. My opinion as an angler is, if two lines are good, three or four is better.
However, the conservationist in me would like to see Wisconsin and Michigan follow Minnesota's lead and drop down to one line per on inland waters sooner, rather than later. If sustainable healthy fisheries are truly the goal, one line per everywhere should be an eventuality in the future.
Edited by Jerry Newman 3/6/2011 11:13 AM
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| Jerry Newman - 3/6/2011 11:12 AM
However, the conservationist in me would like to see Wisconsin and Michigan follow Minnesota's lead and drop down to one line per on inland waters sooner, rather than later. If sustainable healthy fisheries are truly the goal, one line per everywhere should be an eventuality in the future.
I completely disagree with that. There are times and places that I very much appreciate the Wisconsin's legality to have two lines per angler in the water. Prime example is in the Fall, when you can have a Sucker rig hanging over the side while simultaneously casting a lure with your 2nd line. I wouldn't vote to give that up for anything, and I don't believe that it does one iota of harm to the fishery. |
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Posts: 1184
Location: Iowa Great Lakes | As a resident of a state that allows 2 lines, fishings not any easier with 2 than 1 if the fish are negative. For muskies 1 lines plenty for eyes 2 lines are nice to establish the days patterns but don't catch fish any faster just gives you another option to try to figure it out. BTW fishing is fantastic..... |
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Posts: 3508
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
I would have to say I would appreciate being able to have two lines given the opportunity for the most part. Jerome, you and I are in the same "boat" so to speak that being able to troll two lines in the fall would be a welcomed addition. I also would like the idea of being able to have a sucker out the back for an added opportunity for a following fish to come and take a bait, as overall I don't feel it would negatively impact the fishery (my own opinion on that one...)
For muskies, I would not see this as a problem as the large majority of us do not ever intend to keep a fish, except for maybe a really large one. Even with that, there is a high probability of it being released.
As for other species, if the limits are kept the same, I feel all the extra line does is allow someone to obtain the limit faster, or if out for just the sport, the potential of more action. If practiced properly (the major operative word here being properly), adding a 2nd line I feel should really be of no issue. I know if they followed Wisconsin's lead, where you could have 3 lines on the ice, I would really be happy. Two tip-ups and a jig rod would be welcome.
If this is something that could potentially come into being, I would like to see an impact study on a few lakes, just to see if there are any positive and/or negative impacts an implementation like this might make on the bodies of water selected.
Although I would be for an implementation like this as I see it currently, I would definitely feel better about it if there was evidence that would support making the move if there are no major negative impacts on the fishery as a whole. If evidence shows otherwise, or negative effects on populations of certain species show up, then I would be against making the move. I'm really good either way, since I have known no other options in MN, but would adjust my point of view as the evidence reflects.
I feel that open mindedness on something like this allows for a well-informed decision.
Steve |
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Posts: 2361
| The two line thing is going to change guide boats to 6 line trolling spreads. Or 3 follow suckers, as they go down a break.
More suckers more dead fish imo. I would rather see the move toward one line in KY and elsewhere. An uncaught fish isn't a tragedy. It is just a later opportunity. In WI they want to troll suckers and cast at the same time. Everything doesn't have to be about making fishing easier. We have electronics, lines, leaders, baits, topo maps, gps, high quality reels with drags, and sidefinders that have already done a heap of that.
Maybe the next big regs coming up on lakes and rivers should be that landowners have to restore tree cover to all banks, and all human habitations must be partially or totally masked from view of the water?? |
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| Well said Steve. I do think, though, it would be difficult to really do an accurate study on a small scale. I feel adding a line would increase two specific items that would negatively effect Muskies. First, it would increase the use of live bait. While live bait used correctly may not negatively effect muskies, if it is used incorrectly(single hooks) it's plain deadly! I'm constantly amazed by the number of live bait fisherman who still use single hook suckers for pike, bass and muskies. Novice guys who are fishing for whatever bites and are unprepared to handle and release muskies. I see these guys all over the metro and quite often on "vacation lakes" like Leech, Cass, Miltona ect. Nothing wrong with it, it's their right, but they could increase mortality.
Secondly, is walleye trollers on the big lakes that see major pressure.(Mille Lacs, Leech, Cass, Winnie) Walleye guys pulling crank bait spreads constantly catch muskies on light tackle and, again, are unprepared to handle and release. They catch a lot of them before the season opens which can effect spawn. Plus, we all know there are plenty of walleye guys who intentionally kill muskies because they are eating all of "their Walleyes".
Bottom line is: Minnesota's muskie management plan is working! Our fisheries are healthier than ever! The simple fact is: some percentage of hooked fish will die. Increase the amount of hooked fish and you increase the amount of dead fish. I'm not sure adding a line would dramatically increase the amount of catches by avid muskie anglers anyway. Guys in states where two lines or more are allowed catch slightly more fish but the best size averages come from MN.
If you look at it in a simple pros vs cons way; all the pros benefit anglers and all the cons effect the resource. I'm not willing the gamble our quality for a few more fish each season. My $.02; If it ain't broke...
Edited by Ben Olsen 3/6/2011 1:52 PM
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Here in Ontario we are allowed 1 line except for Great Lakes. Often when fishing alone in the late fall I would like to troll 2 lines. Could you have a law allowing a solo angler to use 2 lines and two or more in the boat 1 line per person.
I could put a inflatable doll inthe front of the boat and troll 2 lines or kids don't need a licence I could offer free boat rides and troll 8. ( get out of the way kid I'm busy) |
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Posts: 1270
| If it finally becomes law in Minnesota, which I doubt it will, I would love to be a a Rep for walleye crankbaits and planer boards the first year it's legal! You could make a killing!
As long as limits are watched I don't see a difference if someone catches their limit with one rod or two rods. |
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Location: Elk River, Minnesota | I would say good points to both Ben and FSF..
Piques my interest that if something like this were to be put into play, that there could be a way to have a maximum number of lines for certain situations, so we wouldn't see that 6-line spread out of a guide boat unless there are enough people to do so. I'm thinking...something like this:
1 person: 2 lines max
2 people: 3 lines maximum
3 people or more people: One line per person.
FSF...I would Highly agree in replanting shorelines. Would help run-off of many items, help control algae and water clarity....and a much more aesthetically pleasing experience for those who do not enjoy seeing someones well manicured lawn to water's edge.
Steve
Edited by VMS 3/6/2011 2:42 PM
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Posts: 1184
Location: Iowa Great Lakes | You guys are making to much out of this IMO, there comes a point when multiple lines become more of a problem than they are worth. A fishemans skill has way more to do with success than how many lines one can use. We may drag 1 sucker with 2 guys casting but 2 would be a pain trying to keep the rods out of the way and from them becoming tangled. When walleye trolling with 2 of us we run 4 lines with 3/4 guys still 4 lines just take turns. I would still own the same number of crankbaits if we were only allowed 1 line each rather than 2, how many lines I'm allowed has no bearing on my crankbait buying. |
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Posts: 3508
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Gotta keep in mind, though, there are times when a family goes out on a party barge for panfish...lots of room to spread out to fish, so limiting the number of lines to 3 - 4 would not fit this kind of fishing. Trolling, though.. no doubt more than 4 lines and it could get to be a huge mess...
Steve |
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Posts: 1184
Location: Iowa Great Lakes | True when we anchor up and slip bobber eyes everyone runs 2 set ups, different depth's/baits ect untill a pattern emerges. |
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Posts: 2361
| Shaley and VMS, you might be thinking of yourselves, but the reality is seen on Green Bay when they are running 6 lines with spreaders for just two guys. I can run 5 just with my boat, and I have done it just to see. Not difficult at all, and that setup can cover 20 feet without spreaders and no outrigging or specialty rods. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Ben Olsen - 3/6/2011 1:49 PM
I feel adding a line would increase two specific items that would negatively effect Muskies.
Bottom line is: Minnesota's muskie management plan is working! Our fisheries are healthier than ever! The simple fact is: some percentage of hooked fish will die. Increase the amount of hooked fish and you increase the amount of dead fish. I'm not sure adding a line would dramatically increase the amount of catches by avid muskie anglers anyway.
Well Ben, I understand what your saying and agree with most of it, but if more hooks are in the water and you say hooks kill fish than why do you guide 2 other guys each time you go out on the water?
I'd bet that you and fsf both use more than 1 line when fishing in KY or WI. I've seen Gregg T.and Tony G.,and Crash and Justin M. and Scott S, Jim S. Mike T. ,ect,ect, Troll 6-8 lines...... does that mean these guys kill more fish?
I fish by myself 80% of the time past Oct. 1rst, and I think I would like the choice of using 2 lines, but according to your philosophy,..... I would be killing more fish than I already kill.
Maybe let 2 lines go for a yr. and study the results,... then make a decision on whether or not it is hurting the fishery.
I don't think its gonna be a big deal...but If it does result in more dead fish I'll be against it.
Jerome
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Location: Iowa Great Lakes | Everyplace is different to, troll that same set up on my home waters I'll put my money on the 1 guy casting over the 6 line spread for boating fish. 2 lines are and always have been legal here, but other than the few guys who troll it's rare you see a muskie boat fishing more than 1 line each. |
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Location: Elk River, Minnesota | And that is where I say a limit is needed. If a guide and one other person are out there trolling 6 lines, I say that is too much...4 is plenty. Any more people, and it should then be down to one line per person. I'm not looking at this as about myself, I'm looking at it from the perspective of limiting the number of lines so messes don't happen out there and nobody is taking up such a huge amount of space on a body of water due to their planer board set ups. There becomes a point where it can be considered overkill for your set-up. Think of running 6 lines for walleyes (which I am sure probably happens) and you get into a good school that is biting. you could potentially have 4 lines with fish, only two hands to deal with it, and that only leads to longer fight times, and mortality, even when that is not desired. It would be highly doubtful to do that with muskies, but laws like this need to go for all people... It is much bigger than just us here on M1st
Not everyone is able to efficiently run 6 lines (I know I couldn't because I have never put it into practice).
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Posts: 43
| Most of the big lakes in Mn have special reulations right now, the DNR does this for a reason, if the two line bill passes the DNR will put even more regulations on the lakes. Is this what you want? The DNR is opposed to the two line bill and so am I. |
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| The points I was making related to non-muskie guys. I agree that 6 lines trolling may not be as effective as 1 line cast. The danger is that there are days where 6 walleye cranks will hook 6 muskies preseason. I also agree that, for muskie guys who don't use live bait, the difference is very small, however I'm with FSF more live bait = more dead muskies. G-rome, you and I have both fished many places with no line limit and, believe me; if guys are allowed, they will find a way to run as many lines as humanly possible. I personally have run up to 7 lines alone with no muss no fuss. I'm not sure one season of research would be enough to draw any real conclusion. If it was up to me I would allow you to troll two lines all fall on Vermi, I wanna see a pic of you with a fall giant this year, you deserve one! |
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Posts: 92
| FACT: Quick strike rigs don't kill any more fish than a bucktail, jerkbait, crankbait or bulldawg. |
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Posts: 2361
| Jim Stroede - 3/6/2011 6:00 PM
FACT: Quick strike rigs don't kill any more fish than a bucktail, jerkbait, crankbait or bulldawg.
And your point is??? |
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| Jim, I would amend that statement to say: If properly used, quick strike rigs don't kill any more fish.... I've talked to and observed many live bait guys who still use single hooks or use multiple treble rigs and don't "quick set." I'm not talking about a tiny sample either. I've talked to or watched 20 to 30 guys who were, IMO, using dangerous tactics. Most in the metro including 3 boats in one day on WBL all using single hooks, one of whom watched his bobber circle the boat for 10 minutes before setting. I've also watched several boats in a specific area on Leech using similar tactics. Again, the issue isn't well educated avid anglers! |
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Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
I think it was directed to the point that you and Ben brought up about live bait use means more dead muskies....
If the quick strike is used properly, it should not mean any more lost fish as compared to fishing artificial bait.
single hooks for muskies might be another story though, given they are being used as a swallow rig. I know there are multiple ways to hook your bait up with a single hook, so much of it depends on how they are being used as well.
Steve |
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Location: Grand Rapids MN | I'll admit I get a little jealous watching shows/videos of the guys that get to use multiple lines; both for muskies and walleyes. Would help with putting patterns together for sure and I'm one that actually enjoys trolling. If the DNR said they have info on it being a problem well then I'm for the resource first. We can only go so far to 'protect' muskies. There will always be accidental catches either walleye fishing or even tip-ups through the ice, which most don't use quick-strike rigs. Plus there are generations worth of varying live bait techniques, good or bad, that you just can't educate everyone on the latest techniques. I'm not sure where I stand on the additional lines. |
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| Targa, Last year when it was purposed, the DNR opposed it and asked T.paw to veto it along with several other items that were passed by congress. |
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Posts: 742
Location: Grand Rapids MN | I remember that being an item on that bill. It would allow an angler who bought the additional line 'stamp' to only keep half their limit. But anyways, I thought that whole bill was basically veto because proper due diligence was not done, especially with the walleye slot proposed for Fish Lake near Duluth where a Senator had is summer cabin. I never knew what the DNR's position was on the additional line. Thanks for reminding me about that bill Ben. I will be sure to read into it more so I can at least be better informed.
Edited by Targa01 3/6/2011 8:24 PM
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Location: deephaven mn | I agree with with Mr. Olsen as well 1 line is the rule for many reasons
Besides i have way to many rods and reels not to mention baits already |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Why does the DNR oppose using 2 lines?
Using 2 lines isn't going to change bag limits... I do agree that using single hook live bait rigs and uneducated people using them is just wrong.
KAP, What are some other reasons??
By the way, our new DFL Governor is going the raise license fees for fishing and hunting, and out of state anglers. I wonder how much of that money will go to hunting and fishing programs.
Jerome
Edited by Top H2O 3/6/2011 8:44 PM
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| As Muskie fisherman it may be a tendancy to limit the scope of this law to only how it affects Musky fishing. But there are a lot of other species that it affects as well--- Walleye, pan fish of all kinds, catfish, and so on. I'd have to think that the regulations are in place with the fishery as a whole considered?? |
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