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| Hey guys,
Looking to get back on the water. Last boat, 04 Crestliner 1650 FH, 125 Merc (long gone.....just ok imo).
I've narrowed it down to 2 boats. The 165 Navi Alumacraft or the Lund 1675 Pro Guide. The boats are in the same range dollars wise. Would put Yamahas new 70 on the Nav, and a Merc 60 on the PG.
Any opinions would be great!
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| Hmmmm......I registered but showing as guest.
Maybe it takes some time.
Anyways, from central WI.
Materospizza. |
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Posts: 485
Location: On my favorite lake! | Alumacraft navigator would be my pick. I like the yamaha better than mercury and can't say anything bad about my alumacraft. . |
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| Navigator.
Bigger live well in case you need it (54" vs 40")
Longer Rod Box (7'6" vs 7' - though I don't use my rod box for rods)
Flat decks all the way around - For the life of me I can't figure out why Lund doesn't make their decks (front, sides, & back) all the same height
Price - though Lund will have the better resale.
Everything else is a wash (beam, length, HP, storage, etc)
You won't be disappointed with the Navigator, an excellent boat. Ditto on the Yamaha as well |
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Posts: 619
| Navigator all the way...super nice boat....handles both big and small water.....easy to put in and take out even at shallow landings....easy to handle if your by yourself and big enough if you want to fish 3 people out of it. Big livewell. 91 inch beam. Dont have to have a big truck to tow it either. I have 165 now and will probably buy another one. |
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| Umm, I would have thought Lunds reputation would have won over here. Sounds like the Navi is the boat for me.
One more question......Tuffy Esox mag? Pros, cons, etc?
Thanks guys.
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Posts: 32944
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The owners of Alumacraft 165 models are just responding better than owners of the Lund. Both are great boats. Sit in each, look over the interior appointments and make your decision based on YOUR preferences.
I like the Mercury better than the Yamaha. I'd choose the Lund.
The Esox Mag is a specialty 'Muskie only' design. If you are fishing lakes to 4000 acres and do not plan on being out on rough water (3' 0r more) regularly, it's a gem. |
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| I did sit in, and check out both......thats why I'm struggling with my choice.
I've always wanted an Esox Mag, and will mostly (95%) fish northern WI lakes and the WI river (jigging for Eyes and some Musky stuff up north).
I kinda like a little deeper boat (Lund/Aluma) for my girls (6 and 11, both swim like fish and are fearless when it comes to water), but can not get the Esox out of my head.
Urgg! LOL.
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Posts: 32944
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Kids in the Mag are not an issue, the boat is incredibly stable, and they can run the entire surface safely. |
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Posts: 469
Location: Downers Grove, IL | I run an Emag and love the boat for almost all fishing applications. The one problem I have is taking waves over the nose when casting into the wind or from large ski boats that cruise by. On plane it handles like a champ! Very stable and surprisingly dry. |
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Posts: 485
Location: On my favorite lake! | The esox mag is a good boat for smooth water and can go shallower than the lund or navigator. However if you get in a chop the Navigator or lund will bet you up less. The fronts on the boats are different and are desgined for different lakes. Esox mag smaller lakes or ones with less wind, Lund and Navigator small to medium with more wind but not more than 4ft. . |
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Posts: 233
Location: Iowa | A 16' boat in true 4' wave? YIKES! |
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Posts: 67
| I'm now leaning twords the Esox Mag......I've wanted one for 20 years (now 41)........I think Im gonna treat myself.
I hope I dont regret it. |
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Posts: 67
| Oh yea, I saw Joe Bucher at a restaurant in St Point......was very hard not to bother him with a few boat questions......LOL.
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Posts: 3508
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
No doubt the esox mag is a good boat. I'm a bit partial to the navigator....have owned one since the 90" beam model came out.
couple of things you may want to consider: If it gets windy (even on a 1000 acre lake) will you still try to fish? The one nice thing about the v-hull boat is that even in wind, if you are working into the wind, you will have a much better time maintaining your balance, it will be much smoother ride overall as well. If you have to get somewhere in the Esox with people, it will be a tough go...the water has nowhere to go, so the boat bounces and bounces and bounces... Probably not as bad as the old Tri-hull boats of years past, but it could get painful in waves of a foot or so...let alone being a wet ride in cross winds.
Also, if you are fishing anywhere with rocks, the aluminum can get dinged and you are in most cases no worse for wear, whereas you crack the glass, it most likely is a repair issue.
Granted the esox will have less draft as compared to either the lund or alumacraft, I feel it falls short in the variety of waters you can fish... The front deck of the esox would be quite welcome, although the alumacraft has a very nice sized deck as well...it is almost too high off the water at times, though (advantage esox on that level) The back area of the alumacraft (console model) is a wonderful place to fish from. Stable right up to the edge of the boat, and a figure 8 can be huge around the back corner.
I am not extremely familiar with the layout of the lund, but if memory serves me correctly, the back deck is not at the same level as the side lockers (that has always puzzled me..trip hazard for casters IMHO).
I would also take a bunch of time to consider where you want electronics mounted and how easy it is to do the rigging. Also consider the type of storage you need....lots of big boxes take up room on floors quickly, which may need to come into play when you start loading up the boat for trips. Dry storage needs, terminal tackle needs, etc.
Biggest thing regardless of boat... Watch the load rating of the trailer. If the trailer under the boat is only enough to take the boat and a little gear, it will take it's toll over the long haul. Best to get a trailer heavy enough to handle a fully loaded boat (gas, gear, and extra), then add another 500 or so pounds to play safe. If you go too light on the trailer, it will create undo stress on many things, and on-the-road problems can very well come into play. Many dealers put a lighter capacity trailer under the boat to make a rig seem like a good deal, but that can cost more in the long run...
I know if I had the $$ for a second boat for small water, the esox would get the nod... If it was a choice of just one boat, I'd be looking for something a bit more versatile for bigger waters as well.
which ever way you go, enjoy the purchase of the new rig!! That is part of the fun of the later portions of winter....then the wait to get the boat becomes killer!!
Steve
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Posts: 67
| All great points.
Wind.......if its THAT windy, I'm staying home (just not that hard core I guess).
Boat and rocks........you're right, alloy will wear better and take abuse better......hmmmm?
Trailer......I WILL get a great trailer. If I have to pay to upgrade, I will......a good trailer is key!
I will mainly be fishing the WI river (Point and Plover stretch) and some up north small lakes (Arbor Vitas, Squirell, Boulder Jct area, etc.
I WILL say, the Navi in a 60hp tiller is $2500 less too. I could do the Navi in a councel with a 90 e-etc for the Esox/60hp Merc money. Then maybe the Navi/90 e-tec could pull a tube or young daughter skiing......hmmmm.
Resale....???......what will have a bigger audience when it comes time to sell???
Thanks for the help.......I'm spening 20 grand....a little home work is good......LOL
Chris |
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Posts: 3508
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
I would say resale of the Navi will be better....The esox mag is designed species specific whereas the navi will do multi-species and family boating (to an extent) fairly well.
all of the boats can pull tubers and skiiers, although a prop change to a lower pitch might be in order to get good hole shot to pop the skiiers up easily.
I will say this about the navi....they are very conservative on their HP rating, especially in their tiller models. with a max 75hp on tiller and 90 on console, it will be no speed demon. Power to weight, that etec is a good motor....I've been considering one on an upgrade just for better fuel economy as compared to my 90 2 stroke yamaha.
in a 15+ mph wind, a lake of about 500 acres can get choppy if it is open enough.
If you can find a dealer that carries both brands (or even all three if possible) you could really have some fun tossing different ideas back and forth to narrow down your choices...some things will stand out with one over the other. Side by side comparison is a great thing!!
Steve |
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Posts: 32944
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I have fished a Magnum on LOTW, Wabigoon, guided on Pelican (3600 acres) and other windswept lakes, and never had an issue with 'bouncing' in one foot waves, and ran the hull easily in real live 2 to 3' seas which is a HUGE wave on a 4000 acre lake.
I have owned several 16' class aluminums. I'd select the Mag every time for ride, fishability, storage, and open floor space. The hull design is a sponsoned V which has absolutely nothing to do with a Tri Hull, features more actual 'V' than most 16' class aluminum, and there's OBVIOUSLY somewhere for the water to go; the hull design is very similar to a Boston Whaler.
The resale on used Magnums is unexcelled. Call any Tuffy dealer and ask them how they like taking in used Mags. Money makers.
That said, 3' to 4' seas and you will probably leave the water, as you would in any of the hulls asked about, hence the reason Tuffy builds the Esox Deep V models. The Magnum is absolutely and positively a drier ride is crosswinds than ANY 16.5' aluminum V and controls FAR better in a strong wind, and NO 16' class aluminum rivals that boat at rest in fishable winds as far as stability at rest. 3 250# anglers can stand on the side tank in any wind on Pelican and the boat is stable and yaws hardly at all. I regularly ran a Magnum into the wind with my electric motor...even whitecaps..and there were zero stability issues.
The Magnum storage compartments are sealed fiberglass laminated compartments that are gasketed and sealed from the top and the bottom and are very large. The side tank livewell is 60" and rear baitwell plenty big enough to carry a limit of walleyes.
As far as rigging, the Mag electronics connections are run from a computer base with accessory 1&2 to the nose of the boat, and 3 & 4 to the rear, all the wires are pre-run, labeled, and controlled from the brain box keypad. Large areas are set aside for mounting, and easy access is provided. The Magnum matched trailer has 14" chrome rims, swing tongue, matched welded bunks, side guides, LED lighting, stern retractable straps, spare and carrier, 1/4" plate step pads, and is custom fit and matched to the boat.
The description of where he intends to use the boat is perfect territory for the Magnum.
Aluminum is absolutely POSITIVELY no more resistant to damage from impact than fiberglass and is, in fact, more susceptible to puncture.
In fact FRP is FAR more resistant to serious damage from impact, and if there IS damage, it's repairable'. Aluminum is not other than a weld, which ain't pretty. I promise you, if you strike a well built fiberglass boat hard enough to 'crack' the FRP, you would destroy an aluminum hull as badly. Set the Magnum up with a keel guard to eliminate constant wear going through the gel coat on the nose portion of the keel, and you are set. You would think from that post Tuffy, Ranger, Yar Craft, Triton, and all the other FRP hulls are eggshells waiting to break. Not even close.
How many really big water cruisers are made of aluminum? Why are most made out of FRP?
Remember, Lund builds high quality glass boats as well.
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Posts: 258
Location: Mayville, WI | Another option, especially for rivers, I'd look into mod-v jons. Less expensive, not much to go wrong on them, plenty of space to fish from (experience w/ an 1860 lowe) they're light (good b/c it's easier to trailer & cheaper to powers up, bad for when it gets windy), and the shallow draft (super handy for rivers). However, you typically sacrifice on rod-storage & livewell.
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Posts: 67
| I've had John boats, and for what they are, they're fine.
At 41yo, I work too hard not to get the boat I've always wanted 
I plan on keeping this boat a while.......gonna do it right!
If both boats (Navi and Tuffy) were the same money, Tuffy all the way. But the Navi is cheaper by about 2 grand.......is the Tuffy 2 grand better??
Edited by materospizza 2/21/2011 10:52 AM
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Posts: 684
Location: Sycamore, IL | I have the Esox LTD model which is the same length as the Mag. but only a 70" beam and really enjoy this boat. It is very easy to trailer and launches into the skinniest of water. It fishes three comfortably and two like a dream. I think both boats are extremely well made. You should think about all of the ways that you are going to use the boat and then actually go out and drive the models you are considering. The Tuffy rides very smooth and is quite fun to drive...plus, it's sparkly! I have the tiller set-up but imagine that the console set-up on the Magnum would really move. Also, the resale value on these boats seems very strong.
Have fun with your search and let us know what you choose!
Matt |
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Posts: 238
Location: Rhinelander | I'll throw my 2 cents in........the first post is yours?? You sold a 2004 Crestliner 1650 fish hawk with a 125hp. Well the 1650 fish hawk was only rated to 90, you must of had a 1750 fish hawk or the rig was overpowered. 2004 was the 1st year the 1750 fish hawk went to a 125hp rating, previous they were maxed at 115hp.
Now your downsizing into another tin boat.....nothing wrong with downsizing but why didn't you keep the fish hawk? Really there is not much different with the fish hawk you had than the Alumnacraft Nav. your currently looking at, except increased cost.
Ever fish out of a Tuffy esox mag? I never owned one, have fished out one and would buy one in a heart beat if between the esox mag and the 16' alumnacraft or 16' lund....with out a doubt. I currently own my second 1750 fish hawk......
I probably would have kept the fish hawk if your leaning the navigator decision.
But your decision.....do your self a favor and take the time to run/fish out of both before the greenbacks are laid down.
Edited by Hodag Hunter 2/21/2011 4:05 PM
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Posts: 67
| It may have been a 175, I know I maxed out the HP (for sure 125 Merc......not a fan of that motor), boat was ok. Sold the FH to open a restaurant if you must know. I have never fished out of a Mag.
My boat history starting at age 20ish.
1) many John's....15hp, fishing, duck hunting.
2) 1st new boat, 95 Basstracker TX17 with a (again, maxed out) 75HP Merc. Was basicly a John bota with a 75 Merc. Just starting to fish muskies up north (WI). Traded for Princecraft, wanted tiller and wider.
3) 2nd new boat, 96 Princecraft 167BT/40hp Merc tiller. LOVED the boat (compared to TX). 80" wide (was wide back then), just had lots of fun fishing in that boat (but still looking hard at Esox's driving/fishing by). Kept boat for 3 years or so, sold to buddy.
4) 3rd new boat, 04/05? Crestliner 1750 Fishhawk w/125HP Merc (max hp again). Hated motor.....had that transition from 2 to 3 cylinders at around 3000rpm.....yuck!! Boat was fine. Did not like going down the river sideways when buy myself cause you sit on the councel side......picky that way I guess.
5) Bought a used early 90's Glastron with 4.3 Merc. Wife loved how quite......miss having fishing boat, sold.
Have been boatless since about 2005 (only had Crestliner for 1 summer). Opened restraunt and built a 30x50 shop to house boat that have previously "been in the way" of everything!! I've got the room, I'm gettin' a new boat!!
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Posts: 279
| I bought a used Esox Magnum and ran it for one full season so far and love it. Will more than likely buy a newer one for my next boat. It is a very stable platform my dad is around 250lbs and is in his 70's and always wanted to sit down on boats but with mine he will stand up on the back deck all day. I fish a lake that is around 3300 acres and it got scary one time when the wind was blowing 30mph plus, but it didn't keep me off the lake. It drafts very shallow as it will float in a little less than a foot of water. My brother loves my boat but he is about to buy a navigator because he says it will suit him better. So like everyone says buy what you fits you the best. As steve said the magnums have great resale value just look at this site and almost everyone posted is sold quickly even the old ones. |
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Posts: 67
| One funny thing I noticed.......when I page through my Musky Hunter Magazine, I never see anyone fishing out of an Esox Magnum. The one boat built to fish Muskies, and no one is fishing in one in the MH mag. Just an observation.
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Posts: 743
| LUND all the way. I've had 3 Alumacrafts before this Lund. I traded a Magnum165 for an 1600 Explorer. Everything is better with the Lund. Couldn't get any prop to perform the way I thought it should. The Mag porpoised like mad and could never be totally fixed. You had to fix it yourself by bending the very end of the hull down by the transom with a hammer and a chisel.. I think you shouldn't have to do that with any new boat. I don't know if they ever fixed the problem. My Explorer handles and rides infinately better. Don't make the mistake of thinking their ips hulls are a gimmick.
I believe the Pro Guide is rated for a 75 and probably the Nav too. Get a 75 . You will regret being under powered.
Edited by KSauers 2/21/2011 6:01 PM
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Posts: 684
Location: Sycamore, IL | Aren't most of the Musky Hunter Guys sponsored by Ranger?
Matt |
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Posts: 67
| Even all those pictures in the back of Muskies, in a lot of them you can see the boat they're in.....no Esox Mags (at least in the few MH mags I have. Again, nothing more then just a weird observation.
I think Bucher and Yar-Craft are a team now.......I have seen him years back in an Esox Mag guiding on Little Abor Vitia.
Edited by materospizza 2/21/2011 8:09 PM
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Posts: 238
Location: Rhinelander | In MH mag your getting a lot of big fish pictures from MN and Canada.....alot of the water there is not conducive to esox mag use. Sure the boat will work some of the time just not all of the time.
The waters you described previously are perfect for the esox mag.
If I had the dough my second boat would be an esox, or esox mag tiller....just love them for casting and bobber fishing with the family. As for now my second rig is a dinky 14' foot jon with a 15hp.
I do travel some bigger water and not that the mag couldn't do it some of the time....again, just not most of the time. Also my 1750 fish hawk is not a perfect fit, it was a deal I couldn't pass up. Currently looking for another 18-20' deep v fiberglass boat again. |
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Location: Not far enough north! | I just sold my esox mag. I had it for six years and loved it 99% of the time. They are extremely stable and fish well in waves up to I'd say 1 1/2 ft. If you can get on plane you won't have any trouble navigating in two footers but if you can't get the nose high enough you'll take on water. The only reason for getting rid of it was because on my annual trip to lotw there has been at least one day each year when I couldnt take it out and had to rent a boat from the lodge. This mainly just peeed me off because of the set up in rentals (trolling motors and electronics) and I want to fish in a boat I set up. The only advantage the deep vs have is they can get out in rougher water. The esox wins hands down in fishing comfort and musky casting. If i was fishing northern wisconsin all the time thats what I would go with.
Rick |
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