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| Question: Why do anglers stop fishing when the water reaches 80 degrees?
Lets not get carried away here. I am talking about water temps from 80-85 degrees.
To my knowledge there is no study showing mortality rates on fish caught when the water is above 80 degrees. I understand water quality goes down the higher the water temps, but you would think fish living in such conditions would adapt right?
Reasons I see it as not being a huge problem (if you know how to properly handle and release these fish):
- Fish become stressed regardless what the water temperature is
- No matter what the temperature most anglers take fish out of the water for a picture (fish are meant to live underwater, not out)
- Fish swim away fine (there are many other factors that determine delayed mortality and I believe they are much more of a factor when combined than water temperature)
- Certain lures like "swimbaits" (very popular swimbaits) kill lots of fish each year and in my opinion are more deadly than fishing in water temps above 80 degrees.
- Less anglers fishing/less pressure
- Fish can be much harder to catch when temperatures are this high
- Muskies prefer water temps in the 75 degree range yet we fish for them when water temps are well below 60. That is a 15 degree difference while 80 degrees is only a 5 degree difference and 85 is a 10 degree difference.
What are your reasons for not fishing in water 80 degrees or more? Do you have proof it is bad or do you stop because of what people tell you? |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
Maybe you should look a little harder for "studies" that relate to mortality rates of fish caught in hot water.
If that doesn't work for you than read some articles that have been printed in Esox Angler by MNDNR biologists Rod Ramsell and Dan Iserman.
JS |
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| Also please list reasons why you DO fish for muskies when the water temperature is 80 or more and why you don't see it as a problem.
To my knowledge much of canada's water temperatures are 80 degrees or better and people are still fishing. Same goes for Minnesota. |
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| john skarie - 7/14/2010 12:55 PM
Maybe you should look a little harder for "studies" that relate to mortality rates of fish caught in hot water.
If that doesn't work for you than read some articles that have been printed in Esox Angler by MNDNR biologists Rod Ramsell and Dan Iserman.
JS
We are talking true studies here not stuff written by musky fishermen. |
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| I am not trying to encourage everyone to go out and start fishing for muskies when the water temperature is extremely high but I do fish for them when the water is 80-84 degrees ONCE IN A WHILE and have gotten yelled at by people that have no scientific evidence to back up their beliefs. I handle these fish with extreme care and make sure they do go down and I have never had a problem with fish dying or coming back to the surface. |
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Location: Northern Wisconsin | From what I know its because the dissolved oxygen levels become significantly lower as water temperatures reach above 80 degrees... less dissolved oxygen in the water means less chance of survival for stressed fish. |
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| While I agree high water temps are hard on fish, I think it has to do more with how/where youre catching them. Casting a bucktail into 5 feet of water and catching a fish is a little bit different than running a crankbait 20 ft down and then pulling a fish up. I think the rapid temperature change combined with the warm water is where the real problem is. |
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Posts: 390
Location: Ohio | Despite my username, I cast probably 75% of the time. It drives me up a wall to see people out there when the temps are that high. Like the last guest said, it's how you catch them. I am one of the very few casters in Ohio. They pull these fish up from 20', there is less oxygen in the water as they are fought to the boat. So, with the combination of the fight and less oxygen intake it has to kill some fish. |
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| i'm no biologist but fish obviously have a hard time recovering in warmer temps. i'll trust what i've seen myself and don't really have to prove it or throw stats out there to satisfy anyone. as the previous poster stated fishing isn't all that great in this heat anyway, i can wait. |
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Posts: 462
Location: Syracuse, Indiana | Some time ago I searched without success for a scientific study "on point". I was referred to a great deal of literature, most of which had nothing to do with temperature as a stressor in muskie catch and release mortality. I believe the current Carlton University study will touch on that concept (although it is not the primary focus of the study). That said, there is a great deal of scientific literature dealing with other fish species and increased mortality rates related to catch and release fishing in higher water temperatures. Additionally, the anecdotal evidence is high. Does there need to be a study? Absolutely. Until then, I will err on the side of caution. |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
The articles wrtitten in EA by Rod and Dan are written by scientists who fish. Dan has a PhD in fisheries and Rod is a research biologist. Both work for the MNDNR.
If you want credible information than read it.
JS |
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Posts: 196
| I completely agree with John but why not have the data/info posted in a thread for the less informed anglers to read what they are doing to the fish when catching them in warmer water temps. |
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Posts: 968
Location: N.FIB | Guest - 7/14/2010 2:21 PM
I agree with this person,also why would a guide cancell with his clients because of high temps,guides see it first hand.
i'm no biologist but fish obviously have a hard time recovering in warmer temps. i'll trust what i've seen myself and don't really have to prove it or throw stats out there to satisfy anyone. as the previous poster stated fishing isn't all that great in this heat anyway, i can wait. |
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Posts: 203
Location: Germantown, WI | I am no scientist either, but I know that as water warms it holds less dissolved oxygen. That is a major reason why muskies often take longer to revive in mid-Summer than in late Fall. Try keeping minnows alive during the summer without keeping the water cool and providing lots of oxygenation. Trout, for example, become stressed as water temps go above 70 degrees due to the lack of dissolved oxygen and will seek thermal refuges if available. I'm not sure if 80 degrees is the magic number or not for muskies, but it makes sense to me that there is a point at which the dangers of unsuccessful live release in warm water temperatures outweigh the possible benefits of catching a musky.
I know that there are several reputable guides in KY, IN, and IL that stop fishing for muskies in the Summer in those locations. Some of them move North to guide in Minnesota or Northern Wisconsin during the Summer months where high water temps are not usually a problem. Like so many other things in life as well as in fishing this is a personal choice. I know there are many that feel strongly about the ethics of this issue, but I believe that name calling and bashing of those who choose to legally fish is not a very effective way to make a point. Gentle persuasion and education will be far more effective in the long run.
I have a guided musky trip planned for later this month in SE WI. It was an anniversary gift from my wife. As the trip gets closer I will talk to the guide to see what he thinks about it. If he thinks the water is too warm to ethically fish for muskies I will attemp to reschedule. This is someone that I trust and who I believe would not musky fish if he believed it was unsafe for the muskies.
I once had 2 trout die in one day on a day when the water temps were above 70 degrees because they would not swim away after I attempted to release them. These were fish that I did not even take out of the water. I vowed that day that I would not trout fish when the water was above 70 degrees. Did I do anything wrong by fishing when the water was above 70 degrees? I don't think so, but I did learn a lesson about the consequences of my actions. |
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Posts: 393
Location: Hopefully on the water | I tending to look at it this way of why I choose not to fish when water temps are that high. Generally speaking it is hot out and I am sweating myself and don't feel overally comfortable. Know if the kids want to play catch or run around in that weather I tire out easier. Now I haven't had delayed mortality myself, when I get done playing with the kids or off the water I just want to kick back in some AC. The fish don't have the option of finding AC when it is very hot out to cool off and recoop.
Now granted this is hear say but I had heard at 1 point that 1 in 5 fish we release will die due to delayed mortality in ANY water temps. Is this true, I am not sure but would like to see a study done on it.
We all preach and think we are carefully handling these fish. But what we don't see is after the fish swims away and what happens to it then. I hope the number I have heard are not correct but how much do we know under the water.
I thnk that Tom Betka has done some searching on the subject and maybe able to provide some more info if he is still around.
Each is to their own choices on the matter. What helps all of us is sharing our beliefs and being open minded enough to hear someone else's and agree to disagree or both come to agreeements. |
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| john skarie - 7/14/2010 2:31 PM
The articles wrtitten in EA by Rod and Dan are written by scientists who fish. Dan has a PhD in fisheries and Rod is a research biologist. Both work for the MNDNR.
If you want credible information than read it.
JS
Whos to say they do not have a biased opinion? No disrespect intended but did they put transmitters in all of the fish they caught during high water temps to see if they die or not? These are die hard musky fishermen giving you reasons not to fish without pure results to the conclusion.
Lets be honest with ourselves here. We have all caught fish that we had a hard time releasing regardless of the water temps. Just because they are slow to release or revive if you will does not mean the chances of survival is significantly decreased.
Do the same people that wish to not fish when the water is 80 degrees not use certain lures such as bulldawgs and tube baits because the chances of killing fish are increased? I've witnessed these baits kill more fish than I've witnessed high water temps kill fish. Just something to think about.
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Posts: 2361
| I think there is some confusion here. Water that is warm contains adequate oxygen, however the metabolism of the fish is so much higher, the requirements for everything exertion-wise is what I believe causes the fish problems. Fighting a fish is an unnaturally high octane activity for the fish, while feeding and digesting are probably within the range of things they can do in warm water. Being lifted from cool water into water 8-10 degrees warmer can be another problem.
80 degrees can hold the subsistence comfort 6 ppm the fish requires, but the exertion needs have to go up exponentially at the warmer temps. So lactic acid buildup and exhaustion may be an added somewhat overwhelming stress when everything in the body is already running on high.
the current Cave Run profile going from surface to the dead zone, copied from the information page, note at the 80 degree range the fish still have oxygen, and even at the 83.8 temps. Eventually this lake will heat into the mid to upper 70's to the 25 foot zone, with no oxygen below that, though much cooler water temps exist below that thermocline. The current fish zone for this lake would probably be in the 19-23 foot area for musky.
Depth Temp Oxygen
0 83.8F° (28.8C°) 7.9
5 83.8F° (28.8C°) 7.9
10 83.1F° (28.4C°) 8.2
15 81.0F° (27.2C°) 8.2
16 79.5F° (26.4C°) 8.6
17 78.6F° (25.9C°) 9.2
18 77.9F° (25.5C°) 9.4
19 76.1F° (24.5C°) 8.4
20 74.8F° (23.8C°) 8.1
21 73.0F° (22.8C°) 7.9
22 71.6F° (22.0C°) 7.5
23 69.4F° (20.8C°) 5.8
24 68.0F° (20.0C°) 5.1
25 67.1F° (19.5C°) 4.6
30 64.6F° (18.1C°) 2.1
35 62.4F° (16.9C°) 0.9
40 60.1F° (15.6C°) 0.3
45 59.0F° (15.0C°) 0.0
Edited by firstsixfeet 7/14/2010 4:33 PM
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Posts: 785
| Who needs a study? You catch a musky in 60 degrees water it can be out of the water awhile (though I don't encourage tht) and take off hard and strong and probably spray you in the process. In 78 degrees water a fish out of water the same amount of time often takes awhile at boatside to revive and SLOWLY swims away. I think quick and gentle handling is ALWAYS important but just on the water experience proves fish are more stressed as the water temp rises than fish in cooler water. The weight fish carry often goes down in warm water too. Studdies are great but I think we can use common sense on this issue.
Is 80 the magic number? I think it's close. Last night after work I went out for two hours and got a little 35. I hadn't been out for probably 3 weeks and just needed to go. I had it out of the water maybe 10 seconds tops and it swam away slow but immediately, 5 minutes later I seen it's fins surface as it was trying to go down, I went over to it but the fish had gone down again. My electronics read 78 degrees. To me it's scary when a little 35 seems to be having a hard time. Imagine how a 50 would do... and in only 78 degree water, not 85. |
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| You guys are all making true points about water temperature and oxygen but fail to prove one thing and that is does it kill fish or better yet does it significantly increase delayed mortality (just because it swims away slowly doesn't mean it kills them).
So it puts more stress on the fish when the water temps are higher but the fact is you are putting stress on fish no matter what if you are catching them.
I have seen fish die for no apparent reason with water temps well below 80 and have yet to see a fish die for myself when water temps are 80 or above. |
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Posts: 619
| heres a good example......had water temps around 80 4 or 5 yrs ago....hooked a 50 on topraider....average fight not too bad, no jumping.... had it barely hooked. it actually popped off about 8 to 10 ft from the boat. so i lost it really. it came unhooked and just sat there on the surface. i used my trolling motor went over to it and put my floating measuring stick by and measured. fish never came out of the water, never in a net, barely hooked and it wouldnt swim away. i sat there for about 30 minutes w/ it just holding upright and wouldnt swim away. |
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Posts: 717
Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Slow Rollin - 7/14/2010 6:17 PM
heres a good example......had water temps around 80 4 or 5 yrs ago....hooked a 50 on topraider....average fight not too bad, no jumping.... had it barely hooked. it actually popped off about 8 to 10 ft from the boat. so i lost it really. it came unhooked and just sat there on the surface. i used my trolling motor went over to it and put my floating measuring stick by and measured. fish never came out of the water, never in a net, barely hooked and it wouldnt swim away. i sat there for about 30 minutes w/ it just holding upright and wouldnt swim away.
That's amazing! I've never heard a story like that one. Must have been something to just "motor over" to a 50! LOL! |
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | I do this and it seems to help. If the fish doesn't take off right away (usually the case if you need to take pictures). Then I'll hold the fish steady for a little while, and then I sort of point the fish downwards in the water and give it a good shove. This seems to get the fish headed toward the cooler water and get water flowing though it's gills. The fish also seem to start to swim on their own. Rather than hold the fish by the tail and have it try to get away, which seems to me just tiring the fish out more, I give it a push and most of the time they swim off and are never seen again. Best thing to do is to just get the fish along side the boat, grab the hook with a pliers and get the hook out with out touching the fish. 95% of the time they will scoot off like they where never hooked. Once in a while in warm water you will need to work with a fish, but getting them swiming toward cooler water seems to help. Doug Johnson |
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Posts: 2894
Location: Yahara River Chain | I think the major reason we quit fishing muskies is because of dying fish after someone has caught fish in high temps. Its just not once but multiple times. I think we can all agree we can fish them another day or head north where the temps are better for the survival of the fish happens. |
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Posts: 539
Location: WI | Guest - 7/14/2010 4:09 PM
john skarie - 7/14/2010 2:31 PM
The articles wrtitten in EA by Rod and Dan are written by scientists who fish. Dan has a PhD in fisheries and Rod is a research biologist. Both work for the MNDNR.
If you want credible information than read it.
JS
Whos to say they do not have a biased opinion? No disrespect intended but did they put transmitters in all of the fish they caught during high water temps to see if they die or not? These are die hard musky fishermen giving you reasons not to fish without pure results to the conclusion.
It's all part of their master plan. Spend much of their time acting like they care about the resource and feeding this warm water crap b/c they know we're gullable idiots and won't fish them then and they will have the lake to themselves. 
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Posts: 224
Location: Madison | It's not an either/or thing. Muskies don't automatically die when the water temps hit 80 degrees. But studies show they are more likely to do so.
Muskies don't automatically die when you use a swallow hook sucker rig either. Some guys still use them because they're ignorant of the effects, or just don't care enough about the resource.
"Guest" will not be convinced no matter what because he really, really wants to go muskie fishing. There's nothing illegal about fishing in high temps, or using a swallow sucker rig in Wisconsin either. But the fact that "die hard" musky biologists recommend not fishing tells you how serious the effects of higher water temps are. They (and the rest of us who don't fish in high water temps) want to fish as badly as the anonymous poster. But killing fish that takes 10 years to get to a nice size just doesn't make sense.
Read the lake-link posts, in the last week there have been fish broken off on a crankbait and a topraider on Waubesa alone. That's just the fish that someone has POSTED about. Muskies in a pressured lake have enough to worry about from the guys who aren't serious muskie fisherman, they don't need to deal with high temps at the same time as pressure from the guys who know what they're doing. |
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Posts: 551
Location: Columbus, Georgia | It's frequently 95 degrees down here in Knoxville these day. The water is running around 90 degrees. The concern for fish mortality is primary, but I don't enjoy "melting down" myself.
Therefore, it's time to watch my Musky DVD's for the 100th time and simply wait.
If I was in a position to take a trip way up north I would.
Ho Hum. |
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Posts: 8774
| iDoWhatImTold - 7/14/2010 12:50 PM
I understand water quality goes down the higher the water temps, but you would think fish living in such conditions would adapt right?
[...]
No more than a polar bear could be expected to adapt to a tropical climate...
Muskies native range ends at about the latitude where 80 degree water temperatures occur. They can't be expected to fare well in those temperatures because they basically don't belong there.
That said, there is a big difference between 80 degree surface temps in a deep clear lake as opposed to a shallow weedy lake. The temperature may reach 80 on the surface |
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Posts: 314
Location: Bristol, IN | BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...These muskies DO NOT HIBERNATE @ ANY WATER TEMPERATURE. THEY STILL EAT. The one I Lost last week was in 82.5 degree surface temp. I had an upper 40" class muskie come up and tried inhaling my Large Rubber Bait in 84.0 degree water later that same day. JUST SHUT UP & FISH.
Life's too short to worry about such minuscule B.S. |
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| I always figured that people aren't fishing when the water temps are that warm mostly because the weather is a bit too hot for the fisherman, not a matter of the water being too warm for the fish. |
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Posts: 20211
Location: oswego, il | Nobody said they won't eat at any temperature. We can be careful but we are still going to have fish that are badly hooked and take extra time. All dead fish don't float or die immediately either. Does every one die when they are caught in temps above 80 degrees? No but it sure increases the chances.
Not every lake is the same either, some lakes are terrible when the water is hot, seen one(crappie fishing) thermocline with no fish marked below 8 feet in mid 80 temps. |
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