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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | After consideravle thought, I have decided to forgo putting trim tabs on my boat(690 Tiller) and have decided to try one of the hydrofoils. My rig(underpowered with a 90 on a hull rated for 175 if it were a console) gets on plane just fine by myself, ok with another guy, horribly with three guys or two guys and alot of gear. Moving weight around any more than I have is not an option. I am running a 16 pitch power tech prop, and have considered a solas 4 blade 15 pitch as the next best prop to try, though I really don't want to lose the top end speed I have now(37-39 alone, 35-37 with a passenger or two).
So, I am running about 6100 rpm wide open with another guy so that is perfect. I already have trtansom wedges to tuck the motor further beneath the hull for take off. I wonder if I should move the motor up a hole, and perhaps have the prop ventilated before or along with trying the foil.
So, I have been told the Cobra Edge pro series was the 'best' by several folks. Have also heard the doel fin to be a good product.
i guess, i will need to adjust the motor so the fin is out of the water when trimed up to maintain speed and handling, and I can manage that. at this point, I just need to get out of the hole quicker to improve the safety in my rig, and also preserve my nice outboard from the many hazards on the waters I run.
Lastly, I too(like another poster) have noticed maybe a slight decline in top end and hole shot. After inspection I don't have water trapped in the rig. I installed an inline yamaha fuel/water separator when i bought the outboard, but last week when changing the bilge pump, noticed a merc fuel filter as well. I would not have been changed for 4 years at least. Do you think having two filters could be robbing the engine of need fuel flow?
Sorry for all the questions, and thanks in adavance for any and all help.
Jason Schillinger
Edited by Reef Hawg 6/29/2010 2:44 PM
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | I guess to follow up here, been reading alot about the smart tabs by nauticus. Has anyone used them?? Again, I know I can get a better hole shot with a 15 pitch prop but top end suffers. |
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| if only variable pitch props like planes can get were cost-viable on boats!
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I'd install trim tabs on the hull. More efficient because the work is done at the hull, and not at all expensive. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | I just had the same conversation with the fella at DAH propeller Mike. That would sure be sweet. Either that or a variable speed tranny in the outboard(which had been tried a time or two).
I am going to look more closely at the Smart Tabs. If they do work as designed, might be worth a shot. Hope my transducers etc. are not so much in the way that I have to drill too many holes. |
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Posts: 333
Location: menasha wi 54952 | Jason,
I would go with the hydrofoil. I had a similar situation. In 1998 I purchased a brand new 18' Mirrocraft with a Merc 60hp tiller. This boat was rated for a 150 console. Same situation you were in. Right around 37-38 top end. Great by itself...poor with extra load. Boat was very underpowered. I worked with Tony at Fox River Prop in Little Chute. Eventually went with a hydrofoil (Dont ask what brand) and I was amazed at how the boat planed off and stayed on plane even at low speeds under heavy load. No difference in speed and did not effect the way the motor handled. Either way I am sure it will make a difference. Good luck!!
MR |
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Posts: 994
Location: Minnesota: where it's tough to be a sportsfan! | I'd install the trim tabs on the boat. That is the cheapest option to gain some performance. You will also find that the trim tabs will most likely outlive the hull! I would then save my money and get to the point where you could either trade rigs or trade up on motors. |
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Posts: 791
Location: North Central IL USA | Got a 70HP on a boat rated for 120HP. The hydrofoil I put on did WONDERS for my whole shot and as MR stated, I got a much lower plane speed. I highly recommend one for your situation!! This is the one I got:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=00009...
Best 60 bucks I've spent on this boat to date!
Oh - and the top end speed; I lost maybe 1 MPH at the most. I'll take that trade off any day for the much improved hole shot!!
Edited by gregk9 7/1/2010 12:37 PM
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Wow, thanks guys!! Mike, you have me thinking now... You know, they sell a few hydrofoils that can be clamped on. I might check to see if I can try one of them, and if works, mount permanently. Jake, I just did upgrade motors from a merc 2 stroke to a 90 four stroke two years ago. The merc didn't come up on plane any better, but it had a higher pitched prop. Just couldn't stand the noise and all the smoke. Wouldn've kept it if it was a console as it was a good running motor. I wish I would've just put a 115 and switched the stickers to a 90 like I've seen done, but didn't feel right doing that...
I checked alot of reviews and that SE sport 300 and the cobro hydrofoils keep coming up. I did check on the SE as you have linked and some say they need to be modified to fit a Yamaha 4 stroke. I'll have to look into that as they also make a bracket for attaching temproarily so I don't have to drill through the cav plate.
Thanks for all the comments. |
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Posts: 82
Location: Cottage Grove, Mn | Reefer,
Like you I purchased a slug of a boat.....Lots of room, big tiller (at the time) but would never crack 40. Lund 1900 with a Merc 100. Plus a Yami T8. I liked to run the boat from the back and ran the T-8 in reverse and moved it with my foot when working an edge or weedline. I thought of how I could make it faster, but eventually I realized it would never be fast enough ....... I sold it when I didn't use it enough. Man I loved that boat.
You are not going to make a pig fly!
Sell it and buy a 250 horse tiller!
Happy Independence Day.
greybeard
Edited by greybeard 7/1/2010 7:07 PM
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Posts: 791
Location: North Central IL USA | Reef Hawg - 7/1/2010 3:19 PM
I did check on the SE as you have linked and some say they need to be modified to fit a Yamaha 4 stroke.
That might mean simply filing the slot a little bit. I had to use the Dremel on mine to make it fit my Johnson. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Yeah, I knew that going in beard, though I know I can get better hole shot than what I have. I don't mind going 37 mph as that is almost 10 mph faster than I'd gone for the past 13 years and I never minded that so much. Just want to get that bow down safelyquicker.
OK, just talked to another guy who went with the SE 300 on his 681 with a 60 hp tiller and said it worked wonders for him. Leaning that way again, and at least I have some great ideas now, thanks! Now, off fishing with the beater stump jumper, my prefered rig. |
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Posts: 941
Location: Freedom, WI | Jason - Got a white hydrofoil that you are looking at sitting in the garage (bolt on), when I went to a 115 they gave it back to me from my 90 (it was a Johnson 90 though). Worked good with the 90 do not need it for the 115, it is yours if you want it. |
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Posts: 333
Location: menasha wi 54952 | Jason,
If you want to go that route, I can easily get the hydrofoil from Roger and over to my dad. You could pick it up from him whenever you want.
MR |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | I think I'd like to take you up on that Roger. Mike, if it isn't too much trouble, I'd also take you up on the transport. Gives me a reason to stop in and shoot the bull with your dad again over at the marina. And, I'm in no hurry at all on this Mike. Whenever it works to meet rog, and you have a family gathering planned is just fine. The rig has been fine, just want to optimize.
Roger, Mike, I'll square up with you however you feel fair, $$, lures, fishing trip, etc.
Thanks much guys!! |
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| I put the edge hydrofoil on my Triton and the change was great. Like driving a new boat!. Best 100$ Ive spent on a boat. Also I did not lose any top end and the ride in rough water is no comparsion. |
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Location: north central wisconsin | Reef, so did you go with the stainless steel version? |
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Posts: 176
Location: Tomahawk, WI | Reef Hawg,
I have a 98 690 console with a 175 Opti on it, i dont have a problem getting on plane, but the boat porposes real bad at anything under 4100 rpm's or 40 mph. Was watching this thread to see if you put on a hydrofoil and if it helps or not before i get one. I would love to be able to run on plane at slow speeds with out porposing. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | I ended up installing a stainless steel hydrofoil the other day(Cobra Edge). I took the boat out the next day, albeit by myself, and it seems to get up on plane much quicker than it did before. I have never had alot of trouble planing while solo, but I had a half tank of gas, gear, and it seemed to get out of the hole with less throttle. I did notice less porpoising on the top end and mid range, but again, the real test will be when I have one or more adult passengers. However, the porpoising reduction was quite noticable so far. That said, I did see a slight reduction on top end(about 1 mph), and the boat was a bit touchy in the turns at top end, where it used to turn on a dime. I can live with that if the hole shot and porpoising both prove to be improved with more dudes in the rig.
Edited by Reef Hawg 7/19/2010 12:55 PM
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Posts: 176
Location: Tomahawk, WI | Sounds good Jason, keep me posted please. Mine porposes alot more when i have another person along also.
Mike |
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Posts: 551
Location: Columbus, Georgia | "Nobody puts a hydrofoil on a Ranger"
This was the anthem that I heard from numerous friends (who drive Rangers). I purchased a 619VS with an Optimax 200 and the front end stood straight up in the air unless I put the throttle to the floor in order to get on plane.
I personally don't enjoy running at 50 miles per hour when I need only to move the boat short distances from spot-to-spot.
I purchased a Stingray hydrofoil for a mere $80. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! I can now get on plane at much lower speeds. The propoising has decreased by 95%.
It's like the guys were telling me, "Why use an umbrella when it's raining? We are real men and don't mind getting wet."
Personally, I get pretty annoyed when a guy fishing near me starts his boat and has to gun the thing just to get on plane. I used to think such folks were just trying to p- - s me off, but I now realize that they could use a hydrofoil on their boat!
My experience on two boats (one aluminum and one glass) is that hydofoils work.
Edited by cjrich 7/19/2010 8:09 PM
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Posts: 176
Location: Tomahawk, WI | Jason, Im ready to pull the pin on purchasing the Cobra edge from cabelas. Does it look huge on your motor? Just waiting for you to give me a little more on the water comparisons. Good luck |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | haven't had the big rig out lately, fishings been too dang good in the small craft in the skinny.
One of the reasons I bought the cobra is that it is not as big as others. I have limited space in my garage, and it only sticks out a few inches behind the cavitation plate. It is also nice in that it mounts from underneath so it runs smoother and has the entire cav plate for support. |
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Posts: 176
Location: Tomahawk, WI | Reef,
Have you had a chance to try the big rig out with more people in the boat? If so, how did it work out for you? porposing at low speeds? |
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Posts: 1462
Location: Davenport, IA | Makes a big difference on my 16'8" Javelin with a 115. It came with a hyrdofoil. I tried using it without and it took longer to plane. There was no difference in top speed. Then again, on my 16' Alumacraft w/ a 25 a hydrofoil lowered top speed by 10 mph and it went from 40 seconds to plan to a couple minutes. |
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Posts: 791
Location: North Central IL USA | Schuler - 8/3/2010 5:45 PM
Then again, on my 16' Alumacraft w/ a 25 a hydrofoil lowered top speed by 10 mph and it went from 40 seconds to plan to a couple minutes.
Whoa! did you have it on upside down???? |
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Posts: 1462
Location: Davenport, IA | gregk9 - 8/3/2010 5:52 PM
Schuler - 8/3/2010 5:45 PM
Then again, on my 16' Alumacraft w/ a 25 a hydrofoil lowered top speed by 10 mph and it went from 40 seconds to plan to a couple minutes.
Whoa! did you have it on upside down????
No, it was on right. Maybe not having power trim was part of the reason it didn't work. |
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Location: Mt. Zion, IL | Schuler - 8/3/2010 5:45 PM
Then again, on my 16' Alumacraft w/ a 25 a hydrofoil lowered top speed by 10 mph and it went from 40 seconds to plan to a couple minutes.
My dad has a 25 hp 4 stroke suzi on a 16' lund 1625 classic (about a 700 lb boat) and it only took away 1/2 mph. no power trim......something is wrong with your setup IMO.
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Location: North Central IL USA | RyanJoz - 8/3/2010 10:15 PM
something is wrong with your setup IMO.
I agree. Something wasn't right there. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Yo, I just returned from a week trip with a friend(230 lbs) and alot of gear in the rig at all times. It definately seemed to get up on plane more quickly than I did prior to its' installation, though i wouldn't say it 'jumps' on plane. I am satisfied with the hole shot now, which was my goal. That said, I did lose about 1.25 on the top end. I cruise comfortably at about 34.5-35.5 when before it would have been 35.5-37. I also lost a bit of RPM on top end am at about 5700-5800 vs 6000 with two guys. That also said, the boat porpoises much less through the range which is great, but is a bit touchier at the top end trimmed all the way up. It all seems to depend on wind and wave conditions, and how fast I trim it up, but overall I am happier with the setup. I still plan to pursue the use of a different prop and/or possible vent the one I have. Does anyone have experience with venting a prop they are using? I know Lambeau has a vented prop on his tiller, and said it helped quite a bit as well. |
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