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Posts: 541
| I always assumed during more overcast days and cold fronts that fish would typically move to a little deeper water but while I was reading about Joe Bucher's slopmaster baits it says to cast and retrieve in heavy cover when muskies are hunkered down during cold fronts. So in other words during cold fronts they will be up in the slop? |
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Location: MN | Every lake is diffrent when it comes to cold fronts. Some are even diffrent from bay to bay just got to put in some time and figure it out. |
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Posts: 541
| That makes sense because the lakes I have always fished the most they went a little deeper and now somebody is telling me to fish in the slop and that din't really makes sense. I wonder down farther south if that is more likely to be true too them being in the slop more than deeper water! |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | It makes perfect sense if there's slop available. If it's there, so will be muskies many times, especially when it's tough to catch them elsewhere. |
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Posts: 315
| ill give you a tip...Bucher doesn't fish down south 2 often! |
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Posts: 2361
| Here is the point of the article, first buy a couple "Slopmaster" baits. You already bought the magazine. Joe might be doing ok, but wth, a couple extra bucks is always good.
Now, throw the slopmaster bait into the shallow weeds during the next coldfront, every fish you catch will be in the slop and on the slopmaster as long as that is where and what you are fishin! Guarantee! |
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Posts: 96
Location: Eau Claire | I know during the hard water season I've seen plenty of pike hunkered down in the the thickest stuff they can find tight to the bottom during a cold front. Not sure how much it applies to muskies however. |
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| Now that's funny!!
CR |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Here's another tip.
The question was whether it's worth fishing the slop on a cold front for Muskies. The answer, many times, is yes. I've caught muskies in the shallower thick stuff on the Cave, in New york, Minnesota, NW Ontario, IL, MI, WI, MN, and IA.
I use Spinnerbaits, but not Slopmasters. I never read the article. |
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Posts: 541
| thanks guys! I never knew! |
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Location: The Yahara Chain | I've done well on a Suick or Banana bait in the thick weeds during cold fronts. The Banana Bait gets through the real thick stuff a little better.
Edited by Bytor 5/9/2010 10:29 PM
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Location: Cedarburg, Wisconsin | Uh, maybe. But then again maybe not. They pretty much will be where they want to be. In the lake I fish the most the amount of slop available is minimal and the proximity to where muskies are is remote. I find it hard to believe the muskies look at each other and say, pack your bags, grab the kids, it's a cold front and we gotta take off for the slop 6 miles away. I found they will just slide deeper off the steepest breaking parts of the structures they were on or disappear from the areas they were suspended, probably going belly to the bottom along with the baitfish.
Certainly the fish that were using the weeds will bury into the weeds after a cold front has blown through and the sun is out full force. But you said overcast/coldfront conditions. I don't think they react that strong to just cooler weather if the sky is still overcast. Matter of fact, I have had some of my best fishing as a cold front is moving through and the skies are dark and the wind is blowing. It wasn't near any slop either. Rocks. |
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| Post cold front muskies are going to seek cover. If they're already shallow they need to only bury themselves in the weeds. This is where a spinnerbait ground through the weeds will work. Later in the day (if it's sunny) the muskies will often be extremely shallow in the sun-warmed water (inside weed edge) and a spinnerbait is a great presentation again.
If there are no weeds available muskies will use depth as cover. This is why rock fish are up shallow pre frontal but crankbaits bouncing on deeper rocks are better post frontal.
The more prolonged or more severe the cold front the greater the need for depth because that water is much more stable than the shallow water, which is being affected by fluctuating air temperatures. Fish that bury themselves in the weeds when a front hits may slide out of a shallow weedy bay to deeper water if the rotten weather persists. This is why deep water was the best option during much of the early muskie season last year.
firstsixfeet, Bucher does not own Muskie Hunter magazine. If you want to appear smart it really helps to know what you're talking about first. |
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Location: Pittsburgh | Dont know about the Bucher stuff but Guest hit the nail on the head,no doubt about it. another good presentation is weedless spoons with a tail |
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| Guest - 5/10/2010 12:18 PM
firstsixfeet, Bucher does not own Muskie Hunter magazine. If you want to appear smart it really helps to know what you're talking about first.
That's interesting guest, uhm, who claimed Bucher owns MH magazine? |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I didn't. So don't yell at me.
It's cold and raining and snowing and nasty in Minnesota. |
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Location: SE Wisconsin | Tell you what. . . I'll be out in about 2.5 hours and it's 39 degrees and the wind and rain has been pounding since over night. Rain is subsiding, so is the wind. . . Temps are rising to possibly 43 degrees and I'll bet shallow water temps are down to the low 50's or even high 40's, while last week they were in the mid to high 50's. I'll report out tomorrow. It's gonna be like fall all over again. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Sammy,
Lets hear your report...... I'm sure your thawed out by now.
Shallow, and in the Slop,.... or.... out a bit deeper...??? Sooo... Where are they?? Pics ?
Dr. Sammy, We need to know.
Jerome |
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Location: SE Wisconsin | Jerome, sorry, no pics this time. Shawn Killips and I hit the water yesterday in the misty cold, just as planned. Water temps were averaging 52 degrees, there was a moderate chop with 8-10 MPH breeze after a blustery first half of the day. Wind was out of the East-Nor'-East, air temps around 44 and as I said, very misty and overcast.
We started between 5 - 7', working the weed/rock transitions along a windblown shoreline. Our lure teamwork presented opposite presentations to see what would work, if anything, in this kind of cover. I threw an erratic twitch bait that was easy to present slow and/or fast with pauses, and Shawn worked a steady and slow jerk bait. I moved a 40 and had it follow a couple turns before dissapearing.
We switched up to a blade bait and a slow-rolling crankbait as we parted from the weed edge and tailed out over a rocky flat with spotty weeds between 10 -13' with nothing to show for.
Next spot had totally different water clarity. Where we had started was clear and where we were now was chalky from the pounding rain/wind from overnight into the morning. We fished similar cover (clumps of weeds with big pockets, yet no rocks) as we had begun, as well as similar depth. At this time, Shawn through rubber and I worked a glider with no success... Before the end of the drift, Shawn switched to blades again and I through a slow and steady jerk bait, which brought another window shopper up, but I couldn't make the sale as he flashed off.
Next try was the slop. We got into the thick of it and while Shawn thumped blades over the weed tops, I ripped the salad with a steady jerk bait. I'd rip it down, leaving a trail of broken weed stems in its path, then let it back out and float up before ripping it down again. This technique offered one jarring strike, which I missed.
We ended just at nightfall without a fish in the boat, but a couple sightings to show for our efforts. |
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Location: SE Wisconsin | It was a tough day for anyone, but like I told Shawn, I'd rather be out there learning than sitting at home wondering. Can't really divulge anymore detail - we can cover this more after the weekend  |
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Location: Contrarian Island | we were out a few hours for league in Madison last night finding fish to be a lot more active than I had thought they'd be...water temp at 56. we had action from 10 or 11 from 33 to 42...got one in the net and had the biggest one we moved swing and miss...all fish were contacted in new emerging weed growth from 6 to 8 fow. fish here didn't seem to be too bothered by the cold front that went thru. Window was from 5:45 to 7
oh and moonset was around 6:10pm...
Edited by BNelson 5/12/2010 9:45 AM
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Posts: 2361
| You guys are waay overthinking this I think. You can quote or paraphrase fishing articles all you want. It sounds like it might be a possiblity, it might work, hey they are not biting, maybe you need to change your technique? I would have you guys keep in mind that every month there is a new magazine, and it will have to have articles in it, as fill material in between the ads. Read them, enjoy discussing them, but strain them through your experience such as it is, and if you don't have much experience, and it appears some of the posters here may be fairly new, take all the articles with a grain, and sometimes a whole shaker of salt.
I would keep in mind that a cold front is primarily composed of light intensity and humidity level. Thinking cold has something to do with it confuses many people. "Cold fronts" can actually bring warmer weather rather than "cold". I always think bright and dry for a cold front situation. There is some talk that fish change their positions greatly, but I believe that is mostly theory rather than fact. If a musky has found a place to its liking...why leave? It is easy to theorize that a fish we saw yesterday, and don't see today is no longer in the vicinity. We all know however that a fish can be in the vicinity and totally immune to our lures. If you have fished for a while you have seen it. Ask yourself a question, that fish you saw or caught yesterday, would you have even seen it if it hadn't chased or bit your lure? My answer would be that most fish I see are active fish, and if they were inactive, I wouldn't have a clue they were in the vicinity. Of course there is always Lake Vermilion, and lake X, but a whole lot of those fish are simply there and they are not listening to your proposal.
You can cultivate a moved deeper theory if you want, but frankly as you move deeper contact becomes more difficult, and imo contacting fish is always going to be the key to the game. Cover? Muskys don't move to cover because it is bright or cold or the air is dry. They LOVE cover. They hang around cover when it is available. I doubt they even position themselves much differently in cover when relating to negative conditions. They might instinctively get into the shade line due to the contrasts and difficulty for baitfish eyes to adjust from one to the other, but I doubt they do a big movement in cover. Shallow weeds? I am guessing there are always some in shallow weeds as long as the water temps are favorable and the bait is moving through the area. The thing fish do in clear dry weather that is important to remember is that they become somewhat sedentary. They don't want to move a lot for a bait because most just aren't all that active. So, you can use yank their chain retrieves in very shallow water, or at the weedline, but they aren't successful because the musky have moved into these areas all of a sudden. They are successful because you will probably have brought your bait closest to a musky in these positions, and with less activity, smaller geographical strike windows, you have upped the odds a little. I would much rather have my bait within 2 feet of a fish rather than 6-10, it is just much more efficient. Efficiency is the thing you need to dwell on when you are in these situations, not theororetical movements or presentations based on questionable starting points.
I have a secret "cold front" method I am going to share with everyone. I go to my best spots and I fish them. Sometimes 3 times a day, sometimes even more than that. If there is a good shallow population of fish in the weeds, hey, I would hit them on a cold front day, but I would also hit them on a warm front day. If there is only a limited number of fish in the shallows, and usually the deep weedline, or rocks put out multiple fish why would you fish the thin population in shallow water on a cold front day? The only reason is that that scattered group of fish might be your best bet to contact closely on a day when you need to get within a couple feet of a fish to make it hit, or it only has motivation to move a couple feet to eat something.
I have found my best spots are my best spots from day to day, they might change seasonally, and they might change from year to year relating to cover availability but they are still going to be my best spots once established for the season. The people that catch fish all the time are usually fishing where the fish live in the water, and they are efficiently getting close to those fish with their baits. I think it is that simple. Doesn't mean they always bite though. |
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| Funny how your first sentence says everyone else is overthinking this stuff, then you go on to write 5 long paragraphs...
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Location: SE Wisconsin | A "cold front" is a cold front, no matter how you look at it. . . Many mid-summer cold fronts can bring cooler weather, not always muggy - although I do know what you're talking about.
There's more to it aside from your simplistic approach. Understanding why musky are slower and less aggressive after a major front has moved through is important and can have several reasons behind it. One reason is the feed bag that many muskies put on during the brink and climax of the "storm". Full bellies means a need to increase metabolism, which is where the warmer water is. Use the science behind the seiche effect and you can make predictions where and when the water is the warmest (windblown shore vs lee side). . .
Warmer doesn't always mean more aggressive, especially in the summer, but in colder months like May, where temperature fluctuation is rampant, it can make or break your day on the water depending on how you use it - my opinion.
Where we fished yesterday was loaded with fish the day before - why, after using the same tactics, was it so slow?? Were they still there? Maybe, but they sure weren't aggressive - why not? Could be me, but I would feel pretty silly preaching that changing temperatures and fronts don't impact your success rate on the water. . .
Exploring different approaches to different conditions is what educates an experienced fisherman - assuming no changes occur and everything is the same is a closed-minded approach to teeter tot your success between luck and the skunk.
Edited by Sam Ubl 5/12/2010 3:12 PM
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Location: Contrarian Island | I think Gregg Thomas had an excellent quote in a recent article...it went something like this... "muskies are just not biting today" and goes on to say the quote should say "the muskies are just not biting the way we are fishing today".
I have to agree with FirstSixFeets long winded post to some degree...Sam, maybe the muskies were where you were fishing but the baits and tactics you used simply did not get them to move or hit your baits... you say in your post you used the same tactics as the day before despite a front going thru? and you question why you didn't see fish??? and you go on to say that not exploring options is close minded but yet gave them the same tactics as the day before and use the weather as the excuse? sorry that is strange to me
to often, myself included think that if WE are not moving fish they are not eating and/or not moving for anyone else fishing the lake...how often that isn't the case though..think about times you had action from a lot of fish and you talk to other guys that didn't see much of anything...and the reverse....last nite we moved 10 or 11..boated one...out of 15 teams on the water I'd say half saw zero, a few saw one or 2 and I think the next closest was 7...and I didn't hear of any losing any..(tho one did get caught right before league hours) .and the other thing was we had at least 3 boats within sight of our boat all nite...not to say we were fish magicians as the reverse where we see squat has happened to me enough times to know that it can simply be how and what we are presenting more so than falling back on the excuse that they are not active..more times than not I think we take the approach they are not active merely because our egos are bruised we got our butts handed to us...
I've come to believe there are always muskies eating on any given lake any given hour of the day...it's on us to figure out where and what they want...
about the only thing I tend to do during these so called cold fronts is downsize my baits and start from there...it has worked on lots of occasions that simply giving them something small and erratic in the same place they were the day before gets them to move and eat
. some things to think about
Edited by BNelson 5/12/2010 4:13 PM
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Location: SE Wisconsin | Well put. |
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| My "long winded post" would not be long winded if I hadn't taken the time to highlight some of the tripe in this discussion and contrast it to the essential message in my post, my last paragraph. Sounds like B Nelson fishes his best spots too, and it sounds like all that "action" boiled down to 1 fish in the boat for two guys. On the one hand, doesn't sound like much, but on the other, one fish in the boat is the huge dividing line between what most of us look at as successful and unsuccessful musky jaunts.
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Location: Contrarian Island | I didn't mean to knock your post...I do agree... with what we had for conditions I'll take one in the boat over 3.5 hrs on a league night and action from 10 any day when all the other teams got skunked ..if you are getting a fish in the net every 3.5 hrs that equates to lots of 3+ fish days which to me is way above the avg, and what I shoot for each time out ...it's just like tourney fishing..there are always going to be teams that get some to hit and there are teams that don't, regardless of the weather at hand...I know which I'd rather be in...yes, fishing the best spots over and over at different times and presentations is one thing I definitely do...cold fronts or not fish have to eat ..and they will if given the right bait in the right spot
Edited by BNelson 5/12/2010 7:33 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I'm not over-thinking any of this, that would make my head hurt.
If a big, high pressure-blue sky-NW strong wind front moves through, I move to local, smallish dark water and fish the slop alot. Dark moving water is even better, and yes, I fish my best slop spots there. The structure elements are a little more complicated, but smallish dark water here means not much deep water available. If no dark water, I head to where few fish (the slop) and pound the fish that live there in fairly concentrated areas. Why don't I fish 'em there when the conditions are 'better'? Because it's messy, hard work, and when conditions are 'better' I fish my better spots on the edges, rocks, and other haunts.
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Posts: 2361
| BNelson - 5/12/2010 7:26 PM
I didn't mean to knock your post...I do agree... with what we had for conditions I'll take one in the boat over 3.5 hrs on a league night and action from 10 any day when all the other teams got skunked ..if you are getting a fish in the net every 3.5 hrs that equates to lots of 3+ fish days which to me is way above the avg, and what I shoot for each time out ...it's just like tourney fishing..there are always going to be teams that get some to hit and there are teams that don't, regardless of the weather at hand...I know which I'd rather be in...yes, fishing the best spots over and over at different times and presentations is one thing I definitely do...cold fronts or not fish have to eat ..and they will if given the right bait in the right spot
I didn't take anything as a knock, it IS long winded. I personally am amazed that a partner doubles my fish seen, hits etc. Changing baits and refishing a really good spot is another simple option to up your chances on cold front fish.
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