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Posts: 272
| Read a recent post about this on another site. The post cited an article in the Pioneer Press about the Coast Guard supposedly now beginning to enforce an old existing law requiring kind of a chauffer's license of sorts, for guides, among other users, operating on some parts of the BWCAW, the Missi River, St. Croix and "many lakes in northern Minnesota."
Anybody heard of this?
The main gist of one of the persons quoted in this article is all of the new hoops he felt a guide would need to jump through now.
Among those were things like passing random drug tests, CPR training, a reasonable amount of time on the water, personal references, pass a physical health certification, yada yada. The source was really moaning about this. And the fee and some big test the have to take. Sounds alot like a captain's license to me.
At first glance, this doesn't sound all that unreasonable. As a client, it might be kinda nice to know my guide passes another set of inspecting eyes/criteria, isn't addicted to blow, could help save my dad should he have a heart attack, is fairly healthy......and has spent time on the water. I'm sure paying the extra bones to take the test and get your permit or whatever is kind of a downer for a guide. Totally understand that.
I don't know how the current guiding licensing process works. Does this law go too far? Why does it not apply to WI guides. St. Croix and Missi are WI waters too.
Just curious.
-Eric |
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Posts: 3147
| I dont know the particulars but make no mistake they are or have enforced it,,last year I know of two St Croix guides who the coast guard talked to, they even came to ones place of biz.
Edited by happy hooker 2/1/2010 2:43 PM
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| I was told if you do not have your 6 pack licence, and they find you guiding, they can take everything in your position, including your boat and truck. As the walleye guys on the mississippi. they will be enforcing it on Milacs, Vermilion, Leach, LOTW I was told |
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| On the Great Lakes, where we need that plus state inspection, we look at it as a blessing..... It keeps the fly by nighters from popping up and print a brochure, charging 100 bucks less,etc. And believe me they still pop up, last a couple years then are gone. |
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| Once this gets rolling, you will see all kinds of posts on the net asking if so and so is licensed, etc. Soon as a new guy gets in, people will be saying and questioning his credentials big time. Better off getting it done then looking over your shoulder like that....just a tip from the Great Lakes. Around here, people turn people in all the time. It's a federal offence. |
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Posts: 203
Location: Alexandria, Minnesota | Yes... It is true.
I will be taking my classes in April , but I know a large group of guides that are taking the classes this week. I am all for having some sort of guides license for Minnesota guides. I guess, what has most of us upset about having to get the Coast Guard Six Pack is the expense of it all. Just for all the testing and classes comes to around $1400.00. Once you add the cost of transportation, lodging, and the loss of income for the week of the classes. You are looking at somewhere in the ball park of $2000-$2500 bucks. You add that into your normal advertising, boat payments, equipment, and Guide Insurance cost. It is going to make it nearly impossible for some guys to see a profit, Therefore; you will see this putting a lot of guys, that just guided on the weekends or a couple of days a week , out of business. It is not the best thing for consumers either. If you look at what it cost to go fishing with a guide down in Florida or the gulf coast areas. Some of those guys charge as much as $600 for 8 hrs of fishing.
I just think it is bad timing for something like this. It has been hard enough to get people on the water the last few years because of the weak economy, but now it will be even harder when most guides are going to have to raise their prices so they can cover their operating cost.
Question...... Are you guys willing to pay $450-$500 for eight hrs of fishing?
Edited by Dave Williamson 2/1/2010 5:57 PM
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Posts: 244
Location: Mallard Island Lake Vermilion MN | Never heard anything offical myself...just crap from bars an disgruntled pepole got nothing better to do.
Dave Williamson....how did coast gaurd inform you all?
Never heard anything offical from anyone offical myself for Vermilion?
I'm pretty easy to find.
Last I heard stuff was on hold and being rewriten for inland waters?
DA!
Oberstars office says little.
Were working on it ...like that?
Weird.
Nothing wrong with it I guess, just bad timing money wise and no offical notifcation......an one more thing the man has to keep ya under his thumb.
Kind a silly to ask a kid that guides out of a resort to have a 6 pack.
Or weekend guides...kiind of sad for them.
I mostly do half dayz now dayz an only with I have either guided before or meet an hit it off with...so seriously an dobut I would bother taken any test to guide with that much money on the line.
Simply not into it or money except earning enuff to pay basic costs to keep doing it...
I would simply stop taken people out...go fish for me...period.
I hire me all the time.
Maybe someone reading this knows where one can inf dout where to read the offical notiifacation?
Keep on Rocken!
Tommy
Edited by KidDerringer 2/1/2010 6:04 PM
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Posts: 203
Location: Alexandria, Minnesota | Tommy.......I would give the coast guard a call. |
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Posts: 313
Location: Bemidji, Lake Vermilion | To the best of my knowledge, this is national and applies to anywhere considered Coast Guard waters. I am simply amazed at the lack of reasonably findable information on this. I have scoured the internet for it, and mostly can just find info on other forums. Exactly what will be required who it will be required of and what the full process is to meet those requirements is very vague at best. I will consider calling the Coast Guard but this is government at its finest again, can't get any answers and nearly everyone I've talked to are getting different answers all the time. I have been told there is a chance that you can still get a limited OUPV and that it would be grandfathered in? Answers are unclear at best and there needs to be a central source of information with clear and definitive answers. It is also a little crazy to believe a full six pack license would be required of someone to take out a small group of no more than 3 persons for a simple guide excursion on most inland waters. I have heard of some people pushing to establish a different license, that would still have requirements (not sure what they would be) that would be more appropriate, still work to ensure safety but be more realistic for part time or recreational guides taking out limited numbers in their boat at one time. Hope this thread starts to at least generate some info from people who have more information than myself and others do. Thanks in advance for those helpful people and I will stand back and wait for the conflicting info to fly!! |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Well I don't know how much help this will be for you guys but I found this on the coast guard website.
http://www.uscg.mil/NMC/cb_capt.asp |
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| It's true. I talked to 3 Coast Guard officers at the recent St. Paul Sportshow, they had a booth at the show. I asked them several questions concerning the rumors surrounding the Captain's license requirement. All stated that it will be enforced and they want all guides on certain waters that are named by the Secretary of the Interior to be in compliance with the law. They stated that it was a 1910 law and it will be enforced. There are several means available to obtain the license. Some are lectures and there are on-line courses. I am enrolled in an on-line course named the Mariners Learning System. I know two Captains that used the course. The fee is $600 for this course. I will be taking the final exam on March 3rd in Chicago. There are also several requirements that have been already mentioned in other threads that also must be met. There are serious consequences if you are caught guiding on these waters without the Six Pack license. The officer also made a good point in that your guide insurance may be null and void if you have an accident and do not have the required license. I know it sucks, but you have to do what you have to do.
Murph |
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| I had to get mine for the Fox Chain here in IL.
I'm glad I got it, one sleeps better at night knowing his Insurance will still be valid.
It was tough and a lot of work. I could see there be a valid point in having it on big water. It was very useful.
By the way I don't like the work captain lol...
Merchat mariner souds better. |
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Posts: 133
Location: Duluth, MN | I took the class last spring in Duluth. Anyone looking for info can PM me I can give you the number of the Capt. running the class.
It's a money pit license.
classes and test fees
twic card reqired
must be part of a random drug test screening
first aid course
physical
eye exam
plus license fees
Edited by yooper 2/2/2010 1:23 AM
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| what are the mn waters????? is mille lacs or not mille lacs???? anybody know where i could find a list of lakes? |
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| Mille Lacs is included. |
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Posts: 714
Location: Rhinelander, WI | Do all federal boating regulations apply to these waters or is it just a Guiding/Captain issue.
In a number of cases federal regulations are quite different than State regulations. For example, I believe every child under 12 must have a life jacket on at all times according to federal regulations, I know there are some other rules.
If this is the case these Coast Guard rules would not just affect guides but anyone visting those waters, if they don’t follow all federal regulations. Currently in Wisconsin federal regulations only apply to waters connected to the Great Lakes. But there are forces working to get them to apply to inland waters also. At least according to the last WDNR Warden I talked to.
Nail A Pig!
Mike
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| Is there a list of lakes somewhere? |
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| Hi
I am concerned on this matter. I guide for a resort on Mille Lacs Lake and am concerned about this. This is what I hear.
I talked with the owner of McQuoids Resort on Mille Lacs Lake.
He told me that he put allot of time and effort and investigated this into great detail.
He talked to the Coast Guard in Duluth and checked with numerous coast guard facilities through out the mid west. And checked with the state. As of now Mille Lacs Lake is "NOT" included. That is not to say that next year it may be.
The problem I see is that there is so many conflicting reports it is hard to determine what is what. I feel that it is up to our DNR or a state official to make it "PERFECTLY" clear who is all included and who is not. Other wise hold off on the tickets and fines until things are perfectly clear and spelled out.
Steve Scepaniak |
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Posts: 26
Location: Bayfield, Wisconsin | The link Pointer provided is the right one... The link, plus the website associated has all the info needed for MMC (Merchant Marine Credentials).
Those who are getting licensed this year will want to worry about OUPV or possibly the limited OUPV (if this license is available for your body of water - such as Rainy Lake or LOW - but then you are only limited to operate a boat for hire on that water). You could also get a masters license if you wish, it is overkill, but can be nice to have if you wanted to pilot other vessels in the future that have over 6 passengers.
There is a lot of red tape in this process, including the application process. It took me almost 4 months after being completed with the class to actually receive my creditial. The best thing I can tell anyone to do, is complete the application ASAP and send it in to be processed. Then, all they will need is that you passed your test and the next phase will happen.
For lakes listed, any and all that are federally navigable will be effected. I am sure Mille Lacs is not. But, Leech - Cass - Winnie - Vermillion - etc most likely are, just as Rainy and LOW. Call the USCG Station in Duluth with concerns on your body of water, to be safe.
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Posts: 244
Location: Mallard Island Lake Vermilion MN | Odd thing is past six months I have talked to many people, none have smae story...even coast gaurd...some coast gaurd guys don't even know where Vermilion is.
AND.....everyone taking a test seem to all be taking diffrent kinds of tests.
Coast gaurd going to patrol Vermilion now busting a kid for guding out of a resort.
Come flying in with a huge boat armed with deck guns an full armed crew.
Be fun to see.
DNR don't hardly patrol...be fun to see this enforced.
Bring on the big guns.
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| Having to get a US Coast Guard Captain's gig for inland lakes is a little much, I think.
Jim Stroede |
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Posts: 3147
| kid
On Vermilion would you know the diff
the big rigs come flyin in anyways
#10 Double blades or 5 inch Deck guns,your still gonna get hit with Schrapnel
Edited by happy hooker 2/2/2010 2:04 PM
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Posts: 76
Location: Bartlett IL | Did a Google search for "federally navigable waters" and came up with this link for the Ninth District http://www.uscg.mil/d9/D9Legal/Waterways.asp
Illinois, Wisconsin & Minnesota are split between the 8th & 9th Districts and I did not see a similar list for the 8th District. |
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| didn't see vermilion in the list but I did see a lake caled VermiLLion. they don't know where the lake is and they can't spell it either. |
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Posts: 244
Location: Mallard Island Lake Vermilion MN | Fun stuff hooker!!!
You been around long time an seen it change....I was retro fitting my rig with a bullet proof bubble like Prez Kenndy used to have an Hubert used sometimes. But them Deck guns is rather large....guess have look online, get me a few mounted to fire back!
D'OH!!!
Save some money an pay some crooked state, Fed an elected officals I know get me the papers I need for free.
IF they ever deside what papers ya really need.
But I aint no captain....I want creds say I'm an Admrial sir!
Yup...no more musky Tommy....address me as Admrial Wehler........period.
Was up 4300 feet over Chisago Lake Saturday in hot air Balloon we were in vited to ride in.....Better than a woodchipper......oh you won't do it eh....well get out...now.
LOL
Keep on rocken!
Admiral W.
BIG V
Good eye!
Two winters ago I seen a new guide to the lake in a parking lot before his seminar....we talked a bit as he aint a bad guy, just full of himself a bit.....well when he turned around I seen he had VermiLLion on his jacket as one of the big three he fished now......trying to have a bit more fun I said...dude....you would not be to good on Wheel of Fortune!
He saud WHAT?
I laughed...never said a word....he did not get it...but walking by his truck I noticed it had VermiLLion on it.
I said..dude...they have a buy one get one free on the L's.
Still he did not get it......I rest my case on that one.
Later in summer seen him by Food Station on run home......he had new printing on truck....must be a late bloomer....wonder if her restiched coat / jacket.
To fun.
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| Then after you get your Merchant Marine Officers License you will have to join NAVCO or another Charter Boat Assoc. that has Random Drug Testing.Renew Standard Firstaid & CPR Training every year.Also check U.S.Coast Guard Regs,your Vessel Safety Equipment may be different then State Guide requirements.For one you will need Type1 Life Preservers for each person onboard with Lights(batteries dated) and whistle attached.
You may also have to carry 1 Million Dollars in Liability Insurance and 50 Thousand in Medical Coverage for each Passenger.
Capt. Larry D. Jones
Vice Pres. of
Eastern Lake Erie Charter Boat Assoc. |
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Posts: 3147
| Being captains you can now mary people on your boat so besides just personal floatation you will have to store tuxedos and gowns too |
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Posts: 244
Location: Mallard Island Lake Vermilion MN | Cool, some poeple still do get married.
I would enjoy the right to bury people at sea thingy.
For sure know lots of people could test that one out on....well given they was crooked out an almost wormy.
I aint no killer.....well I guess I would have to say that ONLINE!
But betting could do this for people, save them money, we make some money, an leave some nice hunting an farm land open insted of filling it with boxes of stiffs.
Plus no doubt they hire ya next season, EVERY season to go visit the spot ya dumped the dead bastard.
As the young guys say at muskie expos when the floor is full an money is flowing with people buying pretty stuff they don't need, will never need.....CHA CHING!!
This is getting better an better.
Seriously have really no trouble with laws an regs, we always have followed everything told or asked to do...but this is kind a silly.......just the as mentioned above money pit and timing.
T
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| I would say when you have people for hire on board and it's big water or not you should know what to do in an emergency.
What I don't understand why a guy in a cigarette boat can go 70 mph and not even need a safety coarse and some don't have a clue about courtesy.
Edited by MuskyFix 2/3/2010 1:56 PM
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| I will post this as a new thread too so it doesn't get lost. I have arranged for Captain Rudy Beshensky to instruct a Captain's License Certification Course in the Twin Cities area. I got two very good reviews from different people that went through the course with him at different times/locations.
The course will run every day from 3/26 through 4/1 and the hours will be 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM with a one hour break for lunch. The cost for the course will be $845 per person.
Please contact me as soon as possible if you are interested in attending. There is a minimum and maximum number for the class so there are two reasons to act quickly. (If we don't get enough people, the class won't happen. If we get too many, you might miss getting your spot.) Please send me an email to [email protected] if you are interested. Thanks. |
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