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Posts: 40
Location: WI | I was informed of this earlier this week and saw this post on another website:
"In the last 24 hours I was informed that the Cass Lake Chamber of Commerce is going to have a vote amongst their members to see if they would like to have the spearing ban lifted on Cass Lake. From what I am told there is likely only one member of the Chamber that is against this.
Cass Lake, being a native muskellunge water is one of the few protected lakes we have in the state. Not only is it protected because of it being a native water, but it is an excellent fishery for bigger pike. For many reasons, we do not need to open this water up for spearing. There are many other opportunites in this area for spear fishermen.
I strongly encourage people to contact the Chamber of Commerce to voice your opinion against this. This vote is going to take place next Tuesday, January 5th. If they vote in favor, they will then pursue this with the DNR or perhaps another group that they feel can influence the DNR better than them. In my opinion, this needs to be stopped before it even gets off the ground.
Cass Lake Chamber of Commerce
105 US Hwy. 2
P.O. Box 548
Cass Lake, Minnesota 56633
Toll Free: 1-800-356-8615
Local Phone: 218-335-2250
Email: [email protected]
I just got done sending them an email of my own. But phones ringing off the hook against this would be great as well."
I have already called the Chamber and expressed my opinion. I urge you guys to do the same. Thanks. |
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | This is a huge deal. I have no idea what the chances are that this might happen. But if it would, it's going to have a major trickle down effect. The Dark House Association will have a field day and will start going after each and every lake in the state that has a spearing ban in place, of which there are currently 26 or 27. If you remotely care about this issue at all, please take a minute to call or email to voice your concern. That's all it takes. I sent an email last night and received a response by email this morning. They even called me this afternoon. They're listening. The chamber is taking any feedback they receive to the board members when they have their meeting. They won't think twice if there's very little feedback against what they're looking to do. But maybe they'll think twice if they hear that there is a lot of opposition.
Ultimately, this would be the DNR's decision. But when things become political, you can no longer predict what direction things will go.
Aaron |
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| It does make one think about how other groups feel when expanding the muskie range with stocking new places. Lots of different groups of outdoorsmen with different interests...curious if people will actually debate or just insult each other....Snow |
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | The thing about expanding the muskie range is that it will NOT result in taking away spearing on those lakes. This is what most spearers believe will happen and one of the reasons they are against expansion of muskie waters...the main reason for most, actually. When they find out this is not true, most change their tune.
Aaron |
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| Other groups have clear concerns similar to muskie fishermen concerns...equally important to their pursuits. That is the point, no desire to debate whether you are right or not, you have already made up your mind....Snow |
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | I agree that all groups have their own concerns. No matter what the topic is, if these groups would look to where they have common ground first and to what's best for the resource, coming to an acceptable outcome would be a lot easier for all involved. Unfortunately, the first thing people usually look at are the differences, which creates immediate conflict. Bottom line should always be - what's best for the resource?
Aaron |
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| I encourage everyone here to please call and voice their opinion. I am calling tomorrow to get more details. |
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Posts: 3147
| Ive already called,,Hope other muskie Minnesotans do the same. would be nice to have their voice mail totally "stacked" with concerns about this when they replay their messages after new years. |
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| I've set a email yesterday and will be be calling today sometime. He!! if showing up the day of the vote I'll be there if thats what it takes. I just want to say thanks to the people who brought this vote to our attention before this ban lift could have slide by all of us. |
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | Snow there is actually a rountable with Muskie rep, Darkhouse, and DNR that talked about the Esox Long Range Plan. Not one sided, these meetings setup the long range plan. The one thing the want is the spearing ban lifted, bigger fish, and no slots. The spearing bans will not be lifted, the slots have proven effectinve in reserecting fisheries that were once over harvested, and protect the spawning years classes, to ensure good distribution in year classes. The only way to get bigger pike is not to harvest everyone and selective harvest, which slot and CPR does, but they want no part off it. The biggest inpact could be the walleye fishery after several years of removing top end northern and hammerhandles take offer the could severly hurt walleye hatches.
Troyz |
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | I am a musky fisherman by summer and spearer by winter. I am all for spearing cass, huge pike. I am more likely to spear a musky lake than a lake with a 24-36" slot. When in doubt you don't throw the spear. Simple process. I also got this in an email from muskies Inc. Musky waters are not the holy Grail. There are lots of other fish in them too. People are spearing on leech every day. It is still an exceptional musky lake. Walleye are also speared every year but you don't here the walleye guys going bananas. It is a fish people, not life or death. We don't close duck hunting because people shoot birds out of seasons. We shouldn't ban spearers because of a few bad apples. You punish the bad and take their rights away. I am curious as to how many of the no spearing advocates have tried it. You get the same adrenaline rush when a big pike swims through your hole as a musky follow during summer.
Edited by bassinbob84 1/1/2010 9:31 AM
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
Grew up spearing.
Claiming that you are taking someone's rights away is a bit of a reach.
Nobody has the right to spear, it's a regulated activity just like every other aspect of hunting and fishing.
There are areas of our state where you can only bow-hunt. You don't see rifle hunters up in arms about thier rights being taken away.
We have C&R fisheries, is that taking people rights away?
We have areas where you can't drive ATV's or use motorized vehicles of any kind.
Some people just need to appreciate what then can do more and not worry about the few things they can't.
They also need to understand why things are the way they are, everyone can't do what they want all the time. We're all different and want to use our resources in different ways.
JS |
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | Well said js. My point is there is a lot of water and big pike on cass. It just seems most of the musky advocates seem to think musky waters should be off limits. I have gotten into this with a few guides as well. What makes one species better than the other? Spearing a 40" pike is more of a trophy for me than cathching a 50" ski. The pike would be on my wall the ski would obviously go back. Just because you see big pike doesn't mean you spear all of them either. I mostly take pickelers it selective harvest. You can spear on lakes in the cass chain just not cass. It doesn't make very much sense. |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
I'm not for or against lifting the ban based on muskies.
I put just as much value in a healthy pike fishery as any other kind of fishery.
I feel the decision should be made based on what the DNR feel is the best for long range pike management.
It's my understanding that the pike fishery is much more balanced with more mature pike than Cass had before the ban.
If that's the case then the whatever happens on Cass needs to ensure that the fishery doesn't go backwards.
MN has had it's pike populations go downhill over the decades and new regulations/protections have had dramatic affects on lakes that were hammer handle lakes.
How you can incorporate spearing into special regs or slots etc. is a problem the DNR will have to wrestle with and decide what to do based on what is best for the fishery.
JS |
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| that's exactly the right approach, John.
i support spearing in MN - it's another way to enjoy fishing and it has deep historical roots. it's still even pretty popular in certain areas of the state. i have family members who talk about it a lot like Bob here: the thrill of fishing paired with selective harvest. when i move to MN full-time at some point, i'm sure i'll try it out.
unfortunately, not everyone practices it that responsibly, and local harvest pressure can have a big impact on a single lake, especially with spearing which tends to target the largest fish available. this doesn't make spearing "bad", it just means that it needs to be regulated in a way that protects the fisheries - both pike and muskie.
there are some muskie lakes right now that co-exist with pike spearing, and there are some that clearly need protection. it's not an issue that's as simple as "always right on every lake" or "always wrong on every lake" and taking that stance eliminates the prospect of cooperation or negotiation such as what Troy describes at the long range plan meetings. advocacy is good, and people should definitely call or email to voice their opinion, but be open to the reality that pike and spearfishing is a part of the long range plan too...
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | I think what will hurt the northern and musky pop worse is that the dnr opened up spearing for non residents. If I am on a local lake I care what happens to it. If I travel 100 miles or 500 miles I want a trophy. There are going to be uneducated people throwing at everything that moves through their whole.
Lambeau if you are ever around leech in the winter hit me up. I would be more than happy to take a newbie spearing.
Edited by bassinbob84 1/1/2010 11:16 AM
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | john skarie - 1/1/2010 10:34 AM I'm not for or against lifting the ban based on muskies. I put just as much value in a healthy pike fishery as any other kind of fishery. I feel the decision should be made based on what the DNR feel is the best for long range pike management. JS This definitely summarizes my stance on it. Based on what I've seen first hand and what I've heard from more educated people than myself, I believe that a healthy pike fishery is more critical to the overall health of an entire fishery than any other species. Aaron |
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | I agree with you Bob on the non-resident, but that was passed because a Rep son cannot spear because he lives out of states. right choice. My fear is that opening Cass up to spearing will destroy the Big Pike population. I hope the Chamber talked the local fisheries rep.
Troy |
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Posts: 100
Location: Bemidji/Cass Lake | If it's illegal to spear a muskie, then spearing shouldn't be legal on lakes known to have reasonable muskie populations. I've seen a muskie speared before, a 39" that was mistaken for a pike. This was on the Cass Lake chain. I believe those that avidly spear that say they can tell the difference between the 2, but that's just not the case for the lesser practiced which there are plenty of. Mistakes are gonna happen, or in some cases it will be intentional. I've heard enough stories about somebody plucking one off on purpose, saying muskies eat all the walleyes so they're doing everyone a favor. That mentality still exists with some. There are so many more lakes without a muskie population, it just makes sense to have those that do, or at least the majority, absent of spearing completely.
Edited by Sackett 1/2/2010 1:42 AM
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | There are other lakes in the cass chain that are already open to spearing. There are also quite a few musky lakes not open to spearing. We don't see deer hunting closed in zones where deer have been poached. We don't see duck hunting closed even though lots of people shoot cavasbacks out of season thinking they are redheads. There are even musky fisherman that keep their fish ( gasp ) to eat. There needs to be a better defined line for spearing on the cass chain. You can spear andrusia but not cass. They connect and are right next to eachother. What sense does that make? |
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| Heres what I am trying to figure out, Cass Lake is probably one of the healthiest lakes in the state for all types of fishing. So why try and ruin it?????? It just doesn't make sense! If the pike are so big, there is obviously a reason for it! Lake Bemidji is a perfect example showing that spearing definitly does hurt the population of big pike and if Cass is opened watch out, because everybody and there brother will be headed there to slaughter these giants. We used to be able to go out on Bemidji in november and catch anywhere between 20-30 pike over 35" in a day Now your lucky to get one over 35! Then the spearers came and now all I hear about is complaning that nobody is seeing big pike in there spear holes anymore "DUH WHEN EVERYBODY SPEARS A 35-38 INCHER, A LAKE CANT HANDLE THAT"! Its not rocket science spearing kills fish that are vital to a lakes eco system! Why do you think Muskie fisherman practice catch and realease? Just two days ago I heard from two different people that they both speared 37 inchers "WHAT SENSE DOES THAT MAKE"? And yes both of them spear almost every day so they are not newbies! In my opinion go spear the lakes that are connected to cass, they hold the same genetics and same size fish! There is no reason to allow spearing on Cass, the lake is perfect right now! |
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| bassinbob84,
I'm curious what your take is on why the population of pike in Cass is so much better than the rest of the chain.
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Posts: 100
Location: Bemidji/Cass Lake | BassinBob, you are comparing unrelated species, and species that are managed for the full intention of having 100s and/or 1000s killed each and every year. Trophy pike and muskie do not fall into that category. The DNR ATTEMPTS to help manage deer, ducks, bears, geese, fish, etc on a basis of how much of the species can the resource afford to lose without major impact occurring. That is difficult to do, but better than doing nothing.
Big pike are fragile and tough to manage, and now we're adding in another fragile fish(muskie) that will suffer a small percentage of loss also that absolutely does not need to be incurred. The sizes we like these things to attain just dont happen without regulation these days. Cass Lake also has no stocking efforts either. Not that this is a great comparison, but we try to keep some of our forest/parks in as pristine a state as possible, or at least with minimal effects caused from man, doing the same with lakes is a great idea too, plus it shows results.
You also do not understand the fish movements on the chain. Big pike LIVE in Cass the majority of their time. There are far fewer over 10lbs in the chain lakes than Cass on it own. I've basically lived on and fished Andrusia for over 20yrs, and can 100% guarantee you that comparing the other lakes on the chain to Cass itself would cause plenty of inaccuracy.
Edited by Sackett 1/2/2010 12:49 PM
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | They are different lakes I agree. Each lake is it's has it's own ecosystem. As for why? I love to watch these big creatures. Apparently according to you guys I'm not the normal spearer. If I know a fish is over 20lb I'll spear 1 for the wall. Otherwise I try to spear 24-25" fish. I passed on a 13-14 Lb fish last weekend. Just watching her stalking around was enough to get my heart pounding. If I caught a 20lber with rod and reel it would go back. Without a doubt. Maybe a pic if I wasn't alone. That's it. I spear 1-3 days a week and have not speared a fish yet as I've been on big fish waters and have not seen a fish either big enough, small enough, or too small. |
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| I met with the director of the Chamber and the meeting is being held tonight. It is a closed meeting and not open to the public. An open meeting will be scheduled if they wish to move further.
The Darkhouse Association is pushing the resort owners into backing them for lobbying spearing to be opened on the main body of Cass. They are promising them a financial increase from the amount of spearers that will be on Cass if it is opened. Even though the major percentage of spearers on the area lakes are local. The MN DNR has not been contacted by the Darkhouse or the chamber for their input. This is something that can be quietly coat-tailed and passed by a representative much like the French Lake lift.
If you have not called or e-mailed please make it a point to do so before the meeting is held tonight.
Thanks,
Kevin Cochran
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| Is there any update on the meeting from last night? |
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| I don't have anything yet but will stop in and talk to the director today. |
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| By the way, the director had 7 pages of names from people that were not in favor of lifting the ban on spearing and 2 pages of people that were for lifting the ban.
All the calls and e-mails showed that the resistence to the lift was much stronger than the people in favor of it.
Thank you to all that took time to show their support.
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Here's a response someone forwarded me from the Chamber:
"The Chamber of Commerce has no affiliation with the Cass Lake spear fishing movement at this time and neither supports or condemns this movement in its current state." |
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| That was a mass e-mail that they sent to the majority of the people that e-mailed them. |
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