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| Message Subject: Locked Drags | |||
MuskyMATT7 |
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Posts: 553 Location: 15 miles east of Lake Kinkaid | How many of you guys absolutely lock your drags when casting??? I know I do...and use my thumb and freespool if a fish needs to take a run. I have even had fish pull drag on a locked down 400B Calcutta when hooked in the 8 or close to the boat. | ||
| woodieb8 |
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Posts: 1529 | you are definatly going to have upset in your musky career. drags are on reels for purpose. . good luck. rod makers, baitmakers, will love ya. | ||
| Netman |
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Posts: 880 Location: New Berlin,Wisconsin,53151 | I try to lock down as tight as I can then adjust the drag after the hook-set. | ||
| MikeHulbert |
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Posts: 2427 Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | I highly recommend keeping your drag locked down while fishing and definately use free spool and thumb them when the fish need to run, try to do huge power turns or are head shaking like mad. Lock 'em down and lock 'em down tight! | ||
| Junkman |
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Posts: 1220 | For me there is only one time to lock down the drag. It is the nite before the opener--then leave it there until December 31 (for us SE Wisconsin folk). I don't use a channel-lock like some guys do, but I turn it as tight as I can with my fingers. I'd say the rule of thumb is that any fish over 38" will still have no problem surprising you with the line he can still pull even though you can't. Marty Forman Edited by Junkman 12/8/2009 7:50 AM | ||
| PIKEMASTER |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | Alot of the older reels only have about 5-9lbs of lockdown drag, so after 5-9lbs of force the drags will slip, but alot of the new reels like the TOROS comes with a Carbontex Drag Washers and have 22lbs of lock down drag power, which means if you lock down a TORO this reel will not slip until you reach 22lbs of drag force, hope your hooks don't rip out of the fish mouth or your line or leader has no weak spots or can we say pop goes your rod ????? This why most reel mfg will not make musky reels !!!!! | ||
| fishbag |
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woodieb8 - 12/8/2009 5:08 AM you are definatly going to have upset in your musky career. drags are on reels for purpose. . good luck. rod makers, baitmakers, will love ya. woodie is right we pay up to 300$ for good reel i just hope they have good drag at that price.i think maybe the guys who keep the locked drags are the kind of guys who play with cheap reel?musky are very poor fighter compared to saltwater species,and i have never seen a saltwater fishermans playing with his reel locked drag............... dont waist your time with that Edited by fishbag 12/8/2009 10:10 AM | |||
| Top H2O |
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Posts: 4080 Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Lock it down,, and set the hooks HARD !..........Teeth and a bones are not going to tear out of a mouth of most fish, especially Big muskies or pike. Once the hooks are set I losen the drag a bit for the fight... I need to learn to thumb the spool better. Practice makes perfect. Jerome | ||
| MikeHulbert |
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Posts: 2427 Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | I use all Calcutta TE's with power handels. Crank that drag down all the way, and like I said when the fish wants to run, turn or head shake simply hit free spool and thumb them out a little bit. Way smoother than any drag and I feel I have more control over the fish doing it this way. | ||
| muskydeceiver |
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| I lock my drag for a hookset. After the hookset I back the drag off and freespool when needed. | |||
| MuskyMATT7 |
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Posts: 553 Location: 15 miles east of Lake Kinkaid | Mike and others- Thank you for the reassurance....I have always liked "thumbing fish" as you said it gives me a better sense of control over the fish. Woodie, I respect your opinion and appreciate the response...I know muskie fishing is not all black and white...thats why I started this post. Fishbag- I respect your opinion as well, however, I disagree partly with your quote: "musky are very poor fighter compared to saltwater species, and i have never seen a saltwater fishermans playing with his reel locked drag............... dont waist your time with that". ALL Saltwater fish are most certainly MUCH stronger than any musky. However, musky can accelerate very fast and therefore create a tremendous amount of force when hitting a lure and when they violently head shake. Also, you are completely wrong about saltwater fish not locking down drags. Inshore and offshore light-tackle fishing a light drag is used (sailfish, tarpon, bonefish, permit, redfish, king mackerel, etc.) however bottom fishing as well as fishing around docks you can be assured the best guides on the planet actually use pliers to lock down drags. Fishing with a well-known West Central Florida offshore guide, I was first taught to lock down the drag as tight as it goes and then use the handles of pliers to tighten the drag more. This was using 80lb mono and I am guessing it only put about 40lbs of drag on the Diawas, whiles the Avets could lock down to around 55lbs. However, Amberjacks and big grouper consistently peeled drag out of these reels without a problem. The reason for locking down the drag has nothing to do with the hookset, but simply to keep the fish from slicing the line on the wrecks or hard bottom structure we were fishing. You will also see guys lock down drags when fishing for snook around bridge piling and piers, as this is the only way to turn them away from these barnacle-laced line shredders. I remember many times after hooking up on spinning tackle having to palm the spool in order to turn snook and striped bass from pilings because all but the insanely expensive spinning reels have little potential to lock down drags. Edited by MuskyMATT7 12/8/2009 10:29 AM | ||
| jlong |
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Posts: 1937 Location: Black Creek, WI | I've changed my position with regard to drag settings. I had always locked 'em down... but the past 5 years or so I've backed them waaaaay off. When I set the hook on a 35 incher, my drag will NOT slip. When I set the hook on a 35 pounder my drag will slip. Longer rods take up line faster.... so you end up pulling the fish more than with the traditional pool cue. If you have lighter hooks and no stretch line... you will either tear flesh or straighten a hook. And... if you tie into a monster fish... I do NOT want to turn 'em and promote a gator-shaking charge at the boat. I want to keep 'em swimming parallel to the boat and in one direction. A softer drag setting has helped me avoid over-powering and turning them on the initial hookset. As long as you don't give them slack... you should be fine. Reel down on them to seat the hook if you must... but do it at the right time (ideally when the fish is quartering away from you). Just some thoughts. Do what you wish with them...... | ||
| Will Schultz |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | jlong - 12/8/2009 11:29 AM I've changed my position with regard to drag settings. I had always locked 'em down... but the past 5 years or so I've backed them waaaaay off. When I set the hook on a 35 incher, my drag will NOT slip. When I set the hook on a 35 pounder my drag will slip. Longer rods take up line faster.... so you end up pulling the fish more than with the traditional pool cue. If you have lighter hooks and no stretch line... you will either tear flesh or straighten a hook. And... if you tie into a monster fish... I do NOT want to turn 'em and promote a gator-shaking charge at the boat. I want to keep 'em swimming parallel to the boat and in one direction. A softer drag setting has helped me avoid over-powering and turning them on the initial hookset. As long as you don't give them slack... you should be fine. Reel down on them to seat the hook if you must... but do it at the right time (ideally when the fish is quartering away from you). Just some thoughts. Do what you wish with them...... Agreed. I used to be a locked down guy too and have changed to tight but not too tight. I also put my thumb on the spool when setting the hook and this keeps the spool from slipping. Then I don't have to touch the drag or freespool during the entire fight. | ||
| esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8772 | I've gone back and forth on this... Lately I've been backing off the drag a bit, using it how it was intended to be used. It's a whole lot easier to tighten your drag a bit if necessary than it is to try to loosen it while fighting a fish if it's locked down tight. I will freespool when fighting a fish sometimes, too, but I've had too many times where the fish makes a run, you can't push down the thumbar, your drag is cranked down all the way, and you've got 3 feet of line out... I guess it's a matter of preferance, but I feel like I've got more control over the situation when my drag is set to that a fish can take some line if it needs to. As for getting a good enough hookset? I wonder if the guys having trouble need to sharpen their hooks?? | ||
| muskydeceiver |
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| I have been thinking about this. I lost, what I think, was a really nice fish while sucker fishing this fall. We screw the drags down so we can rip the hooks out of the sucker. When I put the screws to the fish it made a nasty dive and almost pulled me in the water. I couldn't free spool because of pressure and I didn't want to take a hand off the rod to mess with the drag for fear of losing the rod (not joking). I finally got the drag backed off a little and it was like Jaws....click click click as it just kept running. Then the hooks popped out. Devastation. Still think about that fish nightly and wonder if I could have landed it if I would have been able to give it some line. I have never thought about putting my thumb on the spool during a hook set. Is it possible to stop the spool when you are putting that much force on it? | |||
| Guest |
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| Big fish can straighten hooks on a drag that is locked down. When I say big fish I am talking in the 35-40lb range. I have seen this done multiple times when we got a big fish in the net and the hooks would be bent out on a locked down drag. This was enough to get me to loosen it up a hair. Something has to give when they make a power run and hopefully it is not the hook, line, or rod. I had a client last year decide to lock the drag down on the reel that he was using and it resulted in a straightened hook, Mustad 3551 6/0, on a Dawg and a very large fish that didn't make it to the net. Kevin Cochran | |||
| MuskyMATT7 |
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Posts: 553 Location: 15 miles east of Lake Kinkaid | Thanks for all the input!! It is always nice to see different sides of the issue. Kevin- You are right on as I know (if I am ever lucky enough to hook or even be on a lake that holds 35lb+ fish), I would want the hooks to be the weakest link b/w me and a giant. This is because after a good hookset the angler can decide how much pressure to put on a big fish. | ||
| Will Schultz |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | muskydeceiver - 12/8/2009 1:44 PM I have never thought about putting my thumb on the spool during a hook set. Is it possible to stop the spool when you are putting that much force on it? It doesn't take much pressure at all to stop that spool from spinning. Consider the limited amount of pressure needed to keep the spool stopped when you are casting. | ||
| esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8772 | muskydeceiver - 12/8/2009 12:44 PM [...] I have never thought about putting my thumb on the spool during a hook set. Is it possible to stop the spool when you are putting that much force on it? Surprisingly, YES. You wouldn't think your thumb would be a match for a fish who ate at the boat and now wants to get out of there as fast as it can go, but you can do it. | ||
| BNelson |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I agree 100% w/ Long, Schultz, KCochran.. never lock it down 100%...the drags on new reels are awesome... never ever free spooled a fish in my life...drag just tight enough so I can give it a hard pull at the reel and pull out line...loosen during the fight if needed....the only drags I lock down a touch harder are the sucker rods...and those I will loosen after the hookset if needed....works for me hooks don't need to be razor sharp..if there was a person who is fairly lazy about having them razor sharp it's me...now that is not to say they are dull but imo the difference between sharp and razor sharp isn't going to catch you any more fish...but that is just me...i take about 5 seconds to sharpen a treble...if it's sharp enough to poke my finger and draw blood it will do just fine w a musky Edited by BNelson 12/8/2009 3:54 PM | ||
| Beaver |
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Posts: 4266 | Softer rod tips are not just for casting. They help in the fight and help you keep from ripping lips during the hookset. (Read my post about the years worst screw up) I tighten mine down on rods that have some give in the tip Like the Slingblade, Lip Stick and Big Dawg by St Croix. On my jerk/glider rod, I'll set my drag so that I get a steady pull with the rod well flexed with a hook buried in the dock about 20' away. I think new rods designed to fight fish and better drags on mid-high price reels will still give a little when you set the hook. You still have to move the hook in the fishes mouth to bury the hook, don't forget that. I still will adjust my drag during the fight from time to time, because I've got Polish Hammerthumbs and trust the drag more than my thumbs. Edited by Beaver 12/8/2009 4:13 PM | ||
| ChinWhiskers |
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Posts: 518 Location: Cave Run Lake KY. | Love this Thread , The only way to learn how to play big fish.is to chatch a bunch of them, Muskies are the heavy weight fighters of fresh water. they will blow up at boatside and bust up your tackle, not a good time to have a locked down drag. I started fishing for muskies back in the 1960's and in all that time I have figerd out just about every way to loose a big muskie. Now I set my drag as tight as I can and still be able to back if off after the hook set. The best reel there is for fighting big muskie that I have ever used is a ABU GARIA 6500C SYNCRO no longer made, this reel was never liked much as it wasn't a good casting reel, but the SYNCRO DRAG is the best there is for fighting big fish. Crank the drag down for a good hook set and back off to let the fish run. I now fish with RECORD 50'S AND 60's but still like the old Syncro for a big muskie and sucker fishing in cold weather. | ||
| STUSHSKY |
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Posts: 375 | for those who have caught many big fish i suppose some things are now second nature. for me, i have only had two hooked that were easily over 50" and i must say they were certainly "in a different catagory / a different animal" from the many 40" plus fish i have hooked that came to the net. needless to say those two never made it to the net and with both of them (don't ask me why) i attempted to slightly loosen the drag while fighting them which i never had done with any others i had caught. for me i will never again play with a drag setting while fighting any fish! i really don't think one can "compare" setting a drag with the line tied to a tree vs. what a big powerful musky can do and will do when it's actually on the end of your line. for me, until i hook enough really big fish i will pretty much crank the drag down tight and let it do its' job while doing my job by keeping a good bend in the rod and doing my best with rod-angle in attempt to keep its' head in the water irregardless of what the fish may do to try to counteract that. jusy my $.02... | ||
| Ranger |
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Posts: 3864 | I guess I'll have to step forward again to represent the minority view on this topic.... In my humble opinion, if your drag system is effective then you should be able to use one setting to hook, fight and land your fish. If your drag system is working properly you don't need to thumb a freespool or adjust the drag tension while fighting a fish no matter the size of that fish. Benefits of drag system approach: 1) never have to fumble around with the rod/reel while figting a fish, instead you keep your hands in total control of the rod 100% of the time and allow the drag system to provide A) enough tension to achieve a gook hookset and B) enough tension to allow a fish to pull line as needed. 2) see #1 above Negatives of thumbing a free spool 1) cranked down drag systems means greater risk of lost fish and broken rods on boatside strikes 2) cranked down drag systems on Abu 4000, 5000 and 6000 series reels means you've flattened two concave metal washers that are critical to the drag washer system. 3) a freespool means there's a possibility that you'll lose control with your thumb and the freespool can do a quick "freespin" resulting in tangled line at the spool. Who can untangle a bird's nest while figting a fish? These are just some thoughts. I suppose if I fished like the real nuts above I would change my ways. There are too many experts that do the freespool thing. | ||
| MACK |
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Posts: 1080 | I find it hilarious that the guys that are locking down a reel’s drag so tight, basically eliminating the reel from having any drag function at all, are basically then just using a round can with a gear mechanism for when reeling. Which has them spending the big bucks on those reels for nothing more than bragging and chest thumping status symbol rights. They’re not using all of what the reel was built/designed for at that point. But our economy thanks you for spending those big bux on those reels, regardless of how you use them. You have to figure you’re spending the money in three places with a reel: 1) The types of material the gear mechanisms are made with to supply strength and durability over time 2) The types of material the drag mechanisms are made with to supply strength and durability over time and 3) Paying the inflated price for the company’s name/logo/label on the side of the reel and their R&D on that reel and ALL of it’s components that’s in your hands. If you’re completely and souly relying on only using your thumb as a drag mechanism while in free-spool when fighting a fish, why not save yourselves hundreds of dollars and just buy a lesser valued reel since you’re not using any supplied drag function anyway? Lots of people just have money to burn I guess. :shrug: It seems lots of fishermen go after the status symbols for the bragging rights by having what is supposedly the biggest, best, most expensive reel on the market, to end up not even using that reel to it’s fullest potential other than to just simply say that’s the reel(s) you use and have in your boat, but don’t bother to use all of it...just some of it....but mostly just for it’s looks. Spending $350 for a reel, but only using about $150 worth of the reel and just eliminating the rest from any use. All that said, there is a time and a place for free-spooling a fish while applying pressure with your thumb. Only time I like to do this is if I know, by visually seeing, if a fish is lightly or barely hooked and I might think that my current drag setting that I always have my reels set at, which is tight, but not locked down, might be just a tad too tight, that might not allow enough slippage if/when that fish should thrash or run when boatside allowing the hook to be thrown or ripped from it’s lightly hooked position. Anyone can yank a fish from the water using a winch. It’s like spending $350 on a custom rod, with a nice forgiving tip....why not just break the first 18 inches, or first two feet, of that rod’s forgiving tip right off the rod, and only use what’s left over, just to say you spent $350 for that custom rod....for bragging rights... LOL! | ||
| MikeHulbert |
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Posts: 2427 Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Cheaper reels will blow up even faster then my TE's, that's why I buy TE's. Not to pound my chest, but because they last me the longest out of any reel I have ever used. Please also keep in mind that when I free spool a fish during a fight, I might do this as little as zero or once or as many as 10-12 times, depending on the size of the fish, how the fish is behaving, etc... When you fish as much as I do, cheaper reels don't last much over 20 days. My TE's last me about 45 days of fishing. That is why I use them, not for bragging rights. | ||
| PIKEMASTER |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | If you have a reel that the drag is not smooth or no power, go to http://www.smoothdrag.com ask for DAWN and get a set of CARBONTEX drag washers and some CAL'S drag grease. It is funny watching guys slam open reels when fighting a fish, not using the drag of the reel. Lock down drag on a reel is so old school, try a set of CARBONTEX drag washers from SMOOTH DRAGS and you will never push the spool release again fighting a fish. Plus you will mess up a reel by pushing the spool release when a reel has pressure on the spool. A Calcutta TE only lasting for 45 days ????? keep pushing the spool release open when there is pressure on the spool and a Te will only last about 45 days, USE THE DRAG ON THE REEL and a TE WILL LAST FOR YEARS NOT WEEKS !!!!! Edited by PIKEMASTER 12/10/2009 12:12 PM | ||
| MACK |
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Posts: 1080 | No one should ever just simply try to push the spool release lever/button while there is a load on the reel's spool with a fish or snag on the other end of the line. This is a great time and place to use your thumb to apply pressure move that spool backwards a bit to release that pressure from the reel's gears before trying to push down on the spool release lever/button...it will require the use of both of your hands to do that, one thumb to back the spool backwards to release the pressure off the gears, and the other hand to then push the lever/button...it's the best for the reel in the long run. | ||
| MACK |
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Posts: 1080 | If you're only getting 45 days out of ANY reel, let alone a Shimano TE, you're doing something wrong. I don't think it has anything to do with how many days you spend on the water with that reel, it's HOW you're using that reel. By locking down a drag and the use of no-stretch lines, you're simply sending a jolting shock to that reel and it's internal components when a fish strikes and of course then you're shortening that reel's lifespan tremendously. Hence the reason and rational behind introducing a drag system to a reel. It's there for a purpose. If Shimano was building these TE reels and they only lasted 45 days, the design of that reel would then be deemed flawed and I'm sure a company such as Shimano would discontinue that reel and it's design in favor of something else, with much more strength and lifespa to it. That reel has no way of knowing if it's been used 45 days, consecutively, or 45 days over a three year span. That reel should last a whole heckuva lot longer than that. No matter who is using it...it's all in how it's used. I would think Shimano has to be laughing all the way to the bank to people that spend $350 for a reel, use it for 45 days and then turn around and buy another one due to it failing due to user error. I can't see a company like Shimano standing behind a reel to the same user, over and over and over again, 45 days apart from each other and replacing them for free. | ||
| Guest |
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| Hulbert is a the king of abusing reels. Just ask him. | |||
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