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Posts: 164
Location: Bloomington,MN | How do i move up in the muskie "ranks"? i love muskie fishing with a passion and i have no doubt in my mind that i want to make it my job, but how do i do that? I try and fish everyday and not only catch fish but learn something new everytime im out, but what can i do now( while im a teen) to start going on this goal? |
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Posts: 32955
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Take writing classes, as horrible as that may sound. Take as many communication/media classes as you can. Pay attention in English class. Learn about marketing, if your school has any marketing/sales classes, take them. Take a couple business law classes, and at least a couple economics classes. Go to College. Graduate with a solid GPA.
Focus on your fishing knowledge and skills as an avocation until you have both honed and sharp.
Most of all, if you are intending to be in the media spotlight at all on either side of the camera, grow a hide a 105MM Howitzer would bounce off of. Your 'friends' and associates and the general public frequently will take you to task (just ask any Pro Angler or Outdoors Sports Media type, they'll all have stories) very publicly, because they can and they are...people. Remember to network, and network like it's your survival, because it is. And once you have a strong network, when your 'friends' or associates take you to task, the payback...nice and quiet through the network, but right to the heart...can be a necessary deterrent; once folks figure out you can quietly swing a fairly large stick in their general direction, those who matter will treat you with what respect you have earned and built up or at the very least, avoid conflict with you. Don't worry about the rest the detractors that might surface and the noise they make, they are mostly trying to impress themselves. Stand up for what you believe and represent in a respectful and open manner. In public, treat others with respect, even if you feel they don't deserve it.
Learn how to sell yourself, as a Pro YOU are the product. NEVER bash a competitor or competitive product, simply indicate why your stance or product is viable and even perhaps superior to your competition's by feature/benefit.
Look for mentors. Pick a couple that are willing to share, and are mainstream successes. You would be shocked how rare it is a young up and comer asks for assistance, again, just ask any successful Pro out there. Remember, the Muskie end of the business isn't very big, so it may be a very good idea to be versatile and multi-task, targeting opportunity in the fishing business overall, while doing what you can in the Muskie trade. Remember, this ain't athletics, so honed athletic ability won't do much for you.
Good luck; I'd love to point a camera at you someday and ask you how you became a success. I'd never recommend this trade to anyone who isn't ready to rumble...are you? |
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Posts: 3242
Location: Racine, Wi | Get done with school first. You will always have something to fall back on, or even supplement your fishing with. Become a school teacher. Great benefits, good pay, and you get lots of time off. I believe Hulbert is a teacher (unless he retired).  That way, you have some good base income, and can still guide as much as you can handle.
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Posts: 2754
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | rumbler- Focus on science in school - read-research-read-reaserch, and learn as much as you humanly are capable of about fish, their environment, preferred habitat, life cycles, forage base's, aquatic environments, etc., and then apply it! But most importantly-> don't be afraid to try or experiment!
My 11 year old grandson Xavier thinks it's pretty amazing how I find fish and catch them. However, he's learning! I'm 61, he's 11, so who's had an education in fishing? I started when I was 10 years old, and I really enjoy short cutting his learning curve.
You want to learn about muskies? Find the oldest muskie fisherman(plural) you can in the local muskie club(s) and pay strict attention to everything they say about or do while fishing muskies or even talking about them. Question them. It doesn't matter whether it's gear or tactic's, or lakes, or preffered muskie structure, they have done it! Sure, a few of them old guys may be drooling like Norm W. But that doesn't mean what he's mumbling about is nonsense. If Norm says something halfway coherent - pay attention.
Then there's young guy's like Spencer Berman who are pushing the envelope. I fished with Spence in N. WI when he was ~19, and he's the real deal as a hardcore young muskie fisherman. I can't throw two pounder Dawgs (2lb'rs) all day like he can. He also has a off-season physical/weight training program.
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/watch.asp?id=1838
Don't even bring up "PlayStation", "Wii" , or on-line "Rune" games in any conversation. If you really want to know about muskies, they will teach you. But, girls are OK, you could also mention that the "big girl" over there looks pretty hot, and even if they're 90, they will probably look at her, and agree! Join a local muskie club, and go from there.
There is also a wealth of information on the internet and in old muskie fishing publications.
Have fun!
Al |
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Posts: 164
Location: Bloomington,MN | thanks guys. Reading some of this is actually kinda giving me a new outlook on school, never really cared for it to much, but if thats what it take to be a successful guide or a "pro" ill pretty much do anything. |
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Posts: 254
Location: In the cabbage | Id love to be pro, Ive done some smaller time bass fishing in louisana, but never the big times..... |
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Posts: 26
| Larry Dahlberg once said something along the lines that most fisherman look at their pursuits (fisheries) thru the spectrum of a door keyhole..................do you want to live a lifestyle that allows you to fish muskies or do wish to mimmick the lifestyle of someone who guides, sponsors a tackle company or writes for an outdoor publication?
If you focus your eyes the best you can thru that keyhole, you will have to consider Biology and the D.N.R., starting out working at a baitshop while talking fishing with everyone/anyone that will listen (with a smile), eventually guiding others (well)to quality fishing in your local area and then stepping it up and being capable of guiding in waters outside your home range. Given time, good contacts and your ability to mouthpiece ; advertise/sell yourself out thru your fishing capabilties, success will follow.
If you wish to live/breathe/fish muskies , consider looking outside the keyhole. That is.........maybe study your desired location to live first. Not to knock Bloomington, but if you wish to live and breath muskies.....the job you have in mind in your head may not be important as the location of your whereabouts. Would you move away from family/friends? Do want to catch muskies that grow up be a certain length or weight, or just catch a lot of muskies?
Mostly, don't listen to "naysayers" or be influenced by others. If you truly have a passion, NOTHING wil limit your time on the water; including occupation. |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | There was a question about being "sponserd" a few weeks ago. Being sponsored, and being a pro often go hand in hand if not being the same thing. I replied to his question, and I think alot of it applies here as well.
Here's my previous reply-
esoxfly - 8/30/2009 11:48 PM
One of the biggest things that alot of guys don't realize is that being "sponserd" is more than just getting free stuff and what they can give you. You have to remember that you're actually working for them as advertisement, which means obligations on your part. It means you have to produce -pics, tx winnings, guiding operation, something. They're not going to sponsor just any local schmo who fishes alot. You're an ambassador for their company. That means fishing with your shirt on, no fish pictures with a cigarette hanging out of your mouth, being somewhat well-spoken and well-written and then being the kind of guy and fisherman that others want to be....which starts with them buying the product of the company that's sponsoring you, which is actually the whole point of sponsorships. It's about them. Not you.
I used to be sponsored in competitive 3D archery, and one of the biggest things that I learned is that if they want you, they'll come to you and that they don't always respond like you'd like when you approach them. They get that all day long, and they know who's who. And I guess to put it bluntly, if you have to ask how to get sponsored, you're probably better off joining the North American Fishing Club and getting your stickers and baits from them. |
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Posts: 402
Location: Eagle River, WI | marry a girl with alot of money that doesn't care that you are never home. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Apparently my last post was somehow "wrong" in the eyes of the powers that be. Not sure what was exactly wrong with it, but when has that mattered. But I'll try again.
Becoming a pro takes money. Period, plain and simple. Many people try and make a living fishing for muskies. I'd love for someone to tell me how many people fish muskies for a full time career and have no other supplemental income. My guess is the list is very, very small. If you have rich parents that can float you what you need whenever, then you'll have a much easier time making it. Many have suggested getting an education. Good words of wisdom there, listen to them.
You also need to think about how you will like fishing when it becomes your job. I'm guessing that you're a bit young and have some time to think about your career choices. When things you enjoy become your job, there will be days where you won't like doing the things you used to love to do. Take me for example, I have always loved to fish. Right now I still don't have my UT fishing license. I work on a great tiger musky water several times a week. Now when I get a day off, I have a hard time finding the motivation to go back up there. I still love to fish, just would rather do other things when I get time off now. If an opportunity to fish with someone comes up, I'll go but just going out and fishing by myself has lost its appeal to me. Just another thing to consider. Don't think it will never happen to you. I thought the same thing. Fishing is still great, but when you spend time on the water every day it can lose its appeal. Not everyday or all the time, but on occasion it will happen.
Give yourself some time to grow up. Go to college. Study something you're interested in. I'm sure as you grow up you'll figure out what it is you want to do. If that is still musky fishing, good luck.
Hopefully that was within the posting permissions.
Edit to fix my horrible butchering of "within".
Edited by Pointerpride102 9/9/2009 10:24 PM
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Posts: 3242
Location: Racine, Wi | rumbler - 9/9/2009 7:19 PM
thanks guys. Reading some of this is actually kinda giving me a new outlook on school, never really cared for it to much, but if thats what it take to be a successful guide or a "pro" ill pretty much do anything.
Rumbler,
Definitely get through school. It took me a lot longer to get through because I used to think, I'll just guide. Well, I eventually saw things different and finished school (I should be a Doctor). I guide part time now which suits me fine as it allows me to show others how to catch these toothy dudes, and puts a smile on my face when they are holding fish or just having a great time in the boat. Bottom line is stick with school first, and you'll be happy you did. There will be plenty of time to fish throughout school (just ask Spencer), and you'll be educating yourself in the ways of fishing muskies at the same time.
Good luck. There's some good advice given above. (especially listening to Norm W when he's not talking about beavers) |
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Posts: 32955
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Pointer, it is. Great post. |
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Posts: 4342
Location: Smith Creek | Brian Long is another example of a Guide/teacher. Free time in the summer and benefits. You will need to build a resume. That resume should list your college degree first and foremost. |
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| Always have a fallback profession in case the fishing thing doesn't work out.
Look for a College major and profession that has summers off--like a school teacher. Then, you can fish all summer and work your teaching job in the winter.
Consider being a biology teacher and take some classes on fisheries biology. This will allow you the following job options:
- Guide
- Magazine writer/educator
- Fisheries biologist
Brian
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Location: Oswego, IL | The best thing for kids/young adults now is that HighSchools and College actually have fishing classes! Well just bass for now I believe, but come on seriously a fishing class?, They also have highschool and college tournaments! Lucky kids these days!!!! My silly PE class was just making us run a mile, or kickball. lol |
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Posts: 156
| In addition to the above I suspect it wouldn't be a bad idea to take up an interest in photography. I would guess there are quite a few local outdoor magazines that take submissions. Being able to take the pictures that go along with the story couldn't hurt in getting published.
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Posts: 83
| If you could get a USCG captains licence, and maybe a guides licence, depending on what the rules are in Minnesota, you might be able to get a summer job at a resort or lodge next season, if you are old enough, and willing to do a bunch of other work around the place.
I always wondered if i would have enjoyed guiding myself. It must be a lot different taking people fishing that you don't know, and have little in common with, as opposed to friends and family. you would need to be able to show someone an enjoyable time on the water, even when the weather isn't the best and the fishing's poor. |
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Posts: 1270
| esoxfly, I used to shoot 3D competativly also and was sponsored by a number of compnaies and you are correct that if they want you they will hunt you down and make you an offer. All the companies get so many requests everyday that they don't even look at most of them. |
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Posts: 692
Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | I noticed earlier the post that was understandably deleted about "Cowgirls and Bulldawgs" . As funny and as insulting that may have sounded it brings up a valid issue when talking about being a "professional". You have to look at lures and tackle like tools. Can a mechanic get by with only a screwdriver and a Socket wrench? In some cases yes. And a lot of people have found success with those 2 tools. But when a problem arises there are a many other tools that a "professional" needs to be proficient with. What happens when that blade bite dies, or a sever cold front hits and nothing seems to work? You are being paid some dudes week pay so he can fish with you? That is when those over looked forgotten baits come into play. And who knows, you may have to spend the next two hours showing your client proper technique with that specific tool. You better be well versed or you may end up looking like an amateur. |
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Posts: 20
Location: N.E. Ohio | Kudos to you guys and your advice for the young guy... i was not expecting the excellent responses that you have given. |
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Posts: 692
Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | One of the other things, when talking about being a "Pro". Many non-industry people believe that guide and such get a lot of their gear for free. This is mostly far from the truth. Many pay full price for everything while others manicure relationships with manufacturers and reps for "Staff Pricing". "Pro Staffs" are a interesting and often misunderstood topic. Many companies pro staffs or VIP's are comprised of their friends while medium to large companies like rod and reel seek out industry players that may represent their product in a positive manner and sell units for them. Then you have the super powers like boat and motor companies that have more of a ladder system. The deals you get with them off the bat are mostly miniscule, then as you spend time on their list of staff, and move some boats your price break may increase a bit. Unless you are, a BASS pro raking in a couple million in tourney and endorsement dollars, the comp'd boat is just a dream.
As for getting on staffs, I think Steve wrote something about writing for magazines doing seminars etc. These are your fastest modes of exposure. Muskies inc. is a great way to get pipelined in to doing seminars. But don't forget about your scheduled dates. I mixed up dates last year and missed one of my seminars for the First Wisconsin Chapter. WHen I got the call from Bunch, I felt like a complete idiot. In many cases as a fresh out of the box guide the relationships with possible companies and organizations needs to be carefully handled. Visibly represent and use their product religiously. Be informed and knowledgeable about their stuff, and chat them up about what you think. Don't be a pest, but be jovial, and insightful. Don't try and rush into it, and when the offers start to come, and if you are a good person and a successful guide they will come, don't accept every offer that comes a knocking. Don't spread yourself too thin. Represent products you believe in, and that you can properly represent without having to try and BS your way through just so you can get a decal and a few products thrown your way.
Don't forget the web is a great exposure medium but it can be dangerous as well, If you are like me, it is easy to come off like a jerk sometimes... So you always have to use a smiley face which as a dumb thing as it is really can diffuse a comment that may otherwise be taken the wrong way |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | Finish school, but while in school, hook up with a tackle shop. Look at how many people have begun/extended their careers in fishing by being associated with companies like Rollies, Thorne's, Smokey's and Gander Mtn. The exposure to folks in the industry is amazing and the discounts don't hurt either. |
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Posts: 829
Location: Maple Grove, MN | I would suggest dropping the whole idea now and instead focus on enjoying your fishing time and just learning how to fish. Here are some of my observations of guiding:
1. Most guides do not make much money. Yeah, $400 to $600 a day sounds like a lot, but you won't work every day and keeping up the boat, paying for gas, and providing tackle costs a lot more than one thinks.
2. Most people with regular full time jobs make much more money than most guides - especially college educated jobs like engineers, accountants, programmers, and medical jobs.
3. Being a guide will change everything about fishing for you. Suddenly what was fun becomes a job and a burden.
4. Being a good guide takes a huge time committment. You have to be on the water almost every day to keep the fish patterned.
5. You have to be a people person. That is much harder than it sounds when a "not-to-bright-know-it-all" gets in your boat.
6. Success rates are low. There are way more people trying to make money on fishing than the market has room for. Way to many lures. Way to many guides. And just like many tackle companies fail, many guides end up failing too.
Good luck with whatever you do.
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Posts: 15
| Guiding was a dream of mine until I started hiring them on a regular basis. When I saw the and understood the struggles, I decided I would just rather fish and leave all the headaches to the paid pros!
Joe |
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Posts: 156
| Reading the above posts the thing that is implied but not necessarily stated outright: Nobody makes a living fishing for muskies. Some people make money in the musky industry, but that is totally different than getting paid for going fishing. People get paid for taking other people fishing, writing articles, working for the DNR, and selling product to other fishermen - all of which may be related to fishing muskies, but the money making part is teaching, writing, selling - NOT fishing. If you think you are going to make it as a pro you better be sure you actually really like the part of your job that makes you money. |
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| There aren't a lot of real muskie-related career opportunities out there unless you're employed as a sales rep. Guys that go it alone typically work side-jobs for years before they can make a go of it full-time through guiding, writing, and making/selling lures. Even then it's generally a tough row to hoe.
You'll notice that you don't see any "pros" posting here. That's not to say you don't have some accurate responses, but you really should go talk to those guys at the muskie shows or wherever else you can. |
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| Herb---#3 good point, I know a guy (life long fisherman, businessman by trade) who fulfilled his dream a bought a fishing camp in ontario. It was just a job with little ROI. He didn't get to fish one time while being the owner. He worked his butt off keeping it together; making it work. He soon found better investments and could fish anytime he wanted. After 3 seasons the lodge was sold and now he's back to enjoying what he loves----fishing. Also remember part of the compensation package for a guide is being on lake, stream or ocean instead of an office, however its difficult to feed a family when part of the pay is a view of the great outdoors. Also "pro staff"-- in MOST cases there's no money. Its the manufacturers way to get their products in the field. Most anyone can be "prostaff", example look at st croix rods there's hundreds of "prostaff". A "professional" is someone who engages in a activity or sport that monetarily sustains a livelihood. In MOST cases, muskie fishing, the "pro's" are just legends of their own device with little or no $$$$$$$$$ |
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Posts: 15
| Guest - 9/11/2009 11:11 Am
You'll notice that you don't see any "pros" posting here. That's not to say you don't have some accurate responses, but you really should go talk to those guys at the muskie shows or wherever else you can.
Actually there are some "pros" that post here regularly. Jerry Sondag is a "pro" and he has dropped his 2 cents on this thread. If you really want to know how to try and make a go of it you should contact him. He is a phenomenal fisherman and a hell of a guy. I'm sure he would have no issue giving you some direction. |
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| Pointer,
without question, your finest post ever. |
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Posts: 1270
| Herb said it best! Finish school and get a really good job that you can afford to do what you want to do instead of what you have to do. |
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