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| I've been working on a little something that you can help me with. It's a "code of ethics" for muskie anglers. Eventually, this will be presented to our club, and hopefully to international. In the end, it will provide a few "rules to live by" that just might help make your time on the water more enjoyable....
1. In regards to the resource: (muskies in this case)
Please make every effort to release the fish you don't intent to keep unharmed, using proper release techniques and tools, minimizing time the fish is out of water. Please consider releasing legal sized fish as well.
2. In regards to the environment:
Please try to leave the waters where you fish, boat launches, etc in the same condition in which you found them. (no trash in the lake, food wrappers on the ground, etc.) If you see trash laying around or floating in the water, pick it up.
3. In regards to other anglers:
Please treat your fellow angler with the same respect you'd like bestowed on you. Do not follow too closely, do not cut someone off, do not cast over their lines, do not run between them and the shoreline.
4. In regards to the boat launch:
Please try to get your boat in and out of the launch in a quick and efficient manner. This means your rods and reels, tackle, etc. are already in the boat, ready to go before you put the boat in the water, not in the truck. This means you do not leave your boat sitting in the launch while you unload your gear, talk to your buddies, walk two blocks to get the truck, etc. If you need help, please ask. If you see someone who needs help, consider offering. They might be very grateful. Please be patient with other anglers and boaters. Experience levels vary greatly.
You'd think it would all be common sense, but apparently it is not. We all hear the same complaints over and over, and we all see the same things again and again, things that make our time on the water (or waiting for the launch) much less enjoyable.
So here's your chance to help the future of muskie fishing by educating those who might not know any better.
What would YOU say to the current batch of upcoming anglers, and those who may have forgotten? What things do YOU see happening that don't necessarily represent the ideals that we as sportsmen and responsible anglers should have?
Help me write the code of ethics. In the end it will benefit all of us.
Thanks in advance for your reasonable and well thought out input.
Jeff Lietz
FRV Chapter #39
Edited by esoxaddict 1/27/2009 4:11 PM
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Posts: 2865
Location: Brookfield, WI | You forgot play it as it lies and count every shot.
Kevin
Honor |
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| I'd have it say "the condition you found it OR BETTER"
I'm always picking up garbage when I'm on the water. |
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Posts: 5874
| A noble effort. Allow me to modify some of yours.
esoxaddict - 1/15/2009 2:42 PM
I've been working on a little something that you can help me with. It's a "code of ethics" for muskie anglers. Eventually, this will be presented to our club, and hopefully to international. In the end, it will provide a few "rules to live by" that just might help make your time on the water more enjoyable....
1. In regards to the resource: (muskies in this case)
You agree to make every effort to release the fish you catch unharmed, using proper release techniques and tools, minimizing time the fish is out of water.
2. In regards to the envrionment:
You agree to leave the waters where you fish, boat launches, etc in the same OR BETTER condition in which you found them. (no trash in the lake, food wrappers on the ground, etc.)
3. In regards to other anglers:
You agree to always treat your fellow angler with the same respect you'd like bestowed on you. Do not follow too closely, do not cut someone off, do not cast over their lines, do not run between them and the shoreline.
4. In regards to the boat launch:
You agree to get your boat in and out of the launch in a quick and efficient manner. This means your rods and reels, tackle, etc. are already in the boat, ready to go before you put the boat in the water, not in the truck. This means you do not leave your boat sitting in the launch while you unload your gear, talk to your buddies, walk two blocks to get the truck, etc. You agree to offer help to a boater who may be struggling to launch/load his /her boat efficiently.
You'd think it would all be common sense, but apparently it is not. We all hear the same complaints over and over, and we all see the same things again and again, things that make our time on the water (or waiting for the launch) much less enjoyable.
So here's your chance to help the future of muskie fishing by educating those who might not know any better.
What would YOU say to the current batch of upcoming anglers, and those who may have forgotten? What things do YOU see happening that don't necessarily represent the ideals that we as sportsmen and responsible anglers should have?
Help me write the code of ethics. In the end it will benefit all of us.
Thanks in advance for your reasonable and well thought out input.
Jeff Lietz
FRV Chapter #39
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| amen brother. thanks for posting it. just like gun safety, always a good reminder. |
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Posts: 720
| Jeff,
This is a great idea. A code of ethics is exactly what this sport needs. I don't know maybe I'm getting older and more like my dad, but people seem to be getting meaner, more in a hurry and less into the moment. Sometimes and myself included here. We forget that fishing is suppose to be fun. Here is what I would add to your list.
The resource- I would add learning or adopting a procedure for handling a caught fish. Setting up ahead of time some sort of release list and going threw that list each and everytime before you make your first cast. This will cut down on time searching for pliars, camera or whatever else folks would need to release a fish quickly. Nothing kills fish faster than having them out of the water too long.
The Enviroment- Leaving things better than you found them is a must have on this part of the list. Also and this gets back to the (me turning into my dad) turn down the stereo in the boat. There is a thing called noise pollution and I've seen that part of our enviroment taking a beating. I'm not saying turn it off. Just adjust the volume so you are the only one that can hear it. Same thing with a persons truck at the landing.
One other thing the enviroment is our connection with the fish. If you don't take of this the whole list of ethics means nothing. I'm a firm believer that we are stewarts of this planet and being able to musky fish, hunt, camp or just go walking outside is a gift from whom ever you call it. Be it God or whatever. Make no mistake this something each and everyone of us is lucky to do.
Other anglers- This seems so simple. Just treat others the way you want to be treated. For a little clairification. This includes everyone outside musky fishing. Mom and Dads out with the kids who might have pulled in front of you by mistake. Or Grandpa pulling up to you just to see how your doing. Treating people with kindness and respect. Its a great feeling when you can pull off the water knowing you were decent human being. That is the best way we as musky fisherman can uphold an image of class. Something we as a group sometimes struggle with. But please don't think I'm preaching here I'm just as guilty of having a bad day as anyone else. But I try to remember how I would want to be treated.
The boat ramp- I dont' think I can add anything at this point. The point Jeff about offering to help is huge. I completely agree. Offering to help is not a bad thing. However, I want to put the shoe on the other foot. If you are the one who is alone don't be to proud to take a offer of help. Its a great way to speed things up and often it can develope into a disscusion all be it a quick one about the fishing and the lake. So take the helping hand its a win win for everyone involved.
Ethics is a very touchy issue for a lot of folks. I for one don't think I need to be told how to act. But after talking with you Jeff at the last meeting I've thought a lot about this. And no at 42 I don't need to be told how to act and behave but you know what a reminder from time to time isn't a bad thing either. |
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Location: Kronenwetter, WI | Most people who do immoral things know what they are doing is immoral...what is needed is more people to do what they know is right. Like someone on a radio talk show says, "Now go do the right thing." |
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| I think it is pretty great and I might get shot for posting this, but I don't think catch and release has anything to do with ethics...perhaps we should learn to respect fellow sportsmen or women regardless of whether they catch or release...
Edited by BenR 1/15/2009 10:33 PM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | winter's getting pretty cold and pretty long eh boys |
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| jonnysled - 1/15/2009 9:36 PM
winter's getting pretty cold and pretty long eh boys
Nope great snow in the mountains and pleasant sunny weather in Denver...supposed to hit 60's on monday and spending the next few days snowmobiling and snowboarding....pretty great winter so far... |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | This one is kind of a combo environment/boat launch entry. All boats should be inspected prior to launch and inspected/cleaned after removal to prevent the further spread of invasive species and VHS. A minor inconvenience perhaps but think of the consequences of ruining one of your favorite lakes because you couldn't be bothered to do it. |
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| good intention, but I think this is somewhat preaching to the choire. making this available to those on the boards and your club will serve as a reminder, but the people in need of seeing this most are those you only cross paths with outdoors doing the very thing you are petitioning against.
kinda of like the government wanting to outlaw guns. all of the good honest people turn theirs in and all of the criminals hang on to theirs. |
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Location: Muskegon Michigan | How about a code of ethics for people on personal watercraft(jet skis) water skiers? I dont know many Muskie fishermen who are unethical. The Michigan guys all seem to work pretty well together. Most of the good points have already been mentioned. Mike |
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Posts: 434
Location: searchin for 50 | I have found that if you treat people the way you want to be treated everything usually works out. I have helped out a lot of people at the boat landings. Then there are some people who don't want to be helped and some that don't have a clue even after you give them one. Life is to short so I deal with it and move on.  |
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Posts: 1083
| Maybe some code within the code of conduct or ethics is that if someone is working a drift, with obvious signs of not having their boat under power, by any means other than wind/current, ie, gas powered outboard is tilted in the up position and the trolling motor not even deployed, give way to these people working a drift if you're under power. Again, this is a huge common sense thing I would think. But I can not tell you how many times I'd be working a drift of an area, I had been there for hours, then someone comes screaming across the lake, with either their gas powered motor or maybe using their trolling motor and come within touching distance of hitting us and give ME the look as if I need to watch where I'M going? C'mon. Get real.
Had an instance like this a few years back where there was three people in a boat doing what I'm describing. Two were mature adults, one was a young child. Probably one of the "mature" adults was the boys father.
I bit my tongue so hard, forcing myself not to say or do anything rash or uncalled for, I just let them pass by, again, within touching distance. I wanted to take the higher road and be the better man for not leashing out. But I so wanted to turn to the boy and simply say: "Son, please do not do anything of the sort of what your father is teaching you. He's leading by very poor example. Not a great role model."
Again...I just went about my way and did my own thing. I did not move my boat off of it's drift course, I stood my ground, bit my lip, turned around and cast the other direction.
I just know they wanted to get a reaction out of me and I wouldn't give in. I just feel bad for the boy. If this is just one classic example of how NOT to behave on the water, I can only imagine what else this boy as been taught over time. Sad.
Edited by MACK 1/16/2009 9:44 AM
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| guest - 1/16/2009 8:56 AM
good intention, but I think this is somewhat preaching to the choire. making this available to those on the boards and your club will serve as a reminder, but the people in need of seeing this most are those you only cross paths with outdoors doing the very thing you are petitioning against.
kinda of like the government wanting to outlaw guns. all of the good honest people turn theirs in and all of the criminals hang on to theirs.
Absolutely agree!! |
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| guest - 1/16/2009 8:56 AM
good intention, but I think this is somewhat preaching to the choire. making this available to those on the boards and your club will serve as a reminder, but the people in need of seeing this most are those you only cross paths with outdoors doing the very thing you are petitioning against.
kinda of like the government wanting to outlaw guns. all of the good honest people turn theirs in and all of the criminals hang on to theirs.
Guest, I used to think that, too. But there really are some people out there who simply don't know any better. And this is not jsut for us here, or jsut for Muskies Inc members and long time fishermen -- it's for people coming into the sport who might have the blinders on a bit - not even realizing that you just cut someone off, or that it's NOT ok to go between a boat casting a weed edge and the shoreline.
Honestly, some people just don't know any better.
And another thing I want to mention here:
Think about how some of our efforts to get size limits passed, or get muskies stocked in new lakes, have been stalled or defeated as a result of our own behavior. If we're going to present a united front here, paint ourselves as muskie fishermen, we need to make sure the rest of the world doesn't automatically label us as a bunch of jerks. And that ALL starts out with how we act.
Don't get me wrong here -- I'm no saint. I can be downright mean to people sometimes, cussing them out or whatever.
Like Dave said: no, I don't need to be told how to act. I don't WANT to be told how to act. But you know what, sometimes I DO need to be reminded when I'm acting like a big a-hole, and I'll readily admit that.
The people we cross paths with, we have ONE chance to leave an impression on them. As muskie fishermen, and because muskie fishing is such a small segment of fishing and sporting community, it's important to ALL of us that we make that impression a good one. THAT'S what this is about.
We have a responsibility to make things BETTER and not worse, and that's what this excercise is about. A few guys writing some code of ethics on some website somewhere isn't going to do anything, but a whole bunch of guys having input in something that ultimately will find its way to someone who might not have even thought about how their actions affect others certainly will. We've got the heartbeat of muskie fishing going on right here on MuskieFIRST. Here's your chance to have your voice heard. Here's your chance to be that mentor for that 17 year old kid with his first boat on his first muskie trip. Here's your chance to maybe prevent someone from doing something that's going to ruin YOUR day on the water next spring.
Edited by esoxaddict 1/16/2009 2:24 PM
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Posts: 720
| Jeff,
Stick to your guns man. A lot of new fisherman visit this site. See a list of what to do and what not to do helps out a bunch. Its very interesting to see some of the response here. I really like the preaching to the choir. Seems like a lot of "Its never me but always the other guy" going on. For me I already have read a couple things I could do better. I just wanted to say thanks for starting this thread.
Dave |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin |
Ethics...slippery slope and somewhat of a buzzword, since what is considered 'ethical' has much to do with the ever changing landscape as the sport grows. It used to be if I saw another Muskie angler on Pelican, we'd intentionally fish toward each other and sit and talk for awhile, then move on across all that 'used' water. No big deal.
Courtesy. Well IMO that's different than ethics. A person can have medicore ethics by standard, and still be exceptionally courteous on a social scale. I think the two are seperate, but that's me.
It's tough to design an ethics 'code' to any positive end unless Muskie anglers decide to join an organization that puts one forward, and take the pledge, display that behavior, and move the ethical practice of the sport into the primary spot in the eyes of those who partake.. I believe MI tried that, and some folks use that mantra to beat up others in a very courtesy lacking manner. How does one win?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics
From Wiki:
Normative Ethics
'The Right and the Good. Here Ross argues that moral theories cannot say in general whether an action is right or wrong but only whether it tends to be right or wrong according to a certain kind of moral duty such as beneficence, fidelity, or justice (he called this concept of partial rightness prima facie duty). Subsequently, philosophers have questioned whether even prima facie duties can be articulated at a theoretical level; some philosophers have urged a turn away from general theorizing altogether, while others have defended theory on the grounds that it need not be perfect in order to capture important moral insight.
In the middle of the last century there was a long hiatus in the development of normative ethics during which philosophers largely turned away from normative questions towards meta-ethics. Even those philosophers during this period who maintained an interest in prescriptive morality, such as R. M. Hare, attempted to arrive at normative conclusions via meta-ethical reflection. This focus on meta-ethics was in part caused by the intense linguistic turn in analytic philosophy and in part by the pervasiveness of logical positivism. In 1971, John Rawls bucked the trend against normative theory in publishing A Theory of Justice. This work was revolutionary, in part because it paid almost no attention to meta-ethics and instead pursued moral arguments directly.'
So we are discussing an area where most are lost in the very definition. Suffice it to say, from my very limited perspective one should endeavor to be reasonable, respectful, and conservation minded when in pursuit of our quarry
One should respect the varying subsets of experience displayed by one's peers, and respect that it is not an automatic upon exposure to the sport, but compounding experience itself that educates us what is good courtesy, and ethical by any definition.
There will always be the disrespectful and discourteous. There will always be those who behave in what is considered an unethical fashion. I think what you seek are probably closer to 'Guidelines' which have the purpose when read of educating our peers in what is and is not considered by the majority at this point in time as reasonable, ethical, and courteous behavior while enjoying our sport.
It could be a really long list, or a short one.
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| This thread reminds me of the many meetings I sat in back in the early 90's when "mission" and "vision" statements were the buzz in Corporate America. No really wrong answers or right answers.
Behavior on the water is something that I wish more of the pros would talk about during seminars and on their DVD's and TV shows.
As far as why people are all up in arms about the MAC and not this, well tournaments just seem to get people excited.
The MAC is taking the same internet abuse that the Widlackis took when they started the PMTT and that Tom McInnis took when starting the WMT.
John |
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Posts: 2865
Location: Brookfield, WI | I'm always surprised there isn't more discussion on Angler Ethnics. Italian, Chinese, Mexican, etc. The local Sendik's grocery store has a whole aisle of ethnic foods, yet there is no thread or forum for a discussion of ethnic influence in angling.
222 posts about tournament fishing, 17 posts about ethics, but no one cares enough to even mention Angler Ethnics.
Pretty sad commentary IMHO. Awareness needs to raised. The sooner the better.
Kevin
Three or four clicks from some one's wife dancing in a bikini.
Edited by MuskyHopeful 1/24/2009 10:45 AM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Vocabulary Gymnastics at it's best ... if it were up to musky fishermen, they'd regulate themselves out of a sport for all the crap they create themselves. |
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| Other than being extremely boring, non-productive, and failing to reach the people who need ethics training most, there's nothing wrong with talking about ethics. |
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Location: WI | If catch and release is the only way to be ethical, then try to change the regulaltions. Don't play the guilt card with all musky fishermen. |
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| As a long time MI member I have to ask about the intent and how you plan to implement?
What exactly is the intent of this program? I know I wouldn't want to be a member of a club that required me to sign any form of a code of ethics document. I didn't join a club to be turned into a lemming. Some things like harvest, within legal lmits, should always be a personal choice. I fear your intent is solid but it will likely exacerbate the problem that is so many people view MI an an elitest organization. In a time when membership and donations are declining, I don't think this is healthy.
If you were successful getting this implemented, what would stop a group of members from adding silly stuff to the list? Have you seen some of the absurd motions that have been submitted in the last decade? There's always a few at every International meeting. Imagine if some of these bafoons tried to put metrics to your idea about how long you have to get out of a ramp area with your rig? I don't see how people's perceptions of MI will improve if we train MI members to get upset because we have established 10 minutes is too long to unload a boat.
You can't teach common sense and you can't fix stupid no matter how good your intentions are. |
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| This is a great subject with the best of intent. The problem lies within the fact that many people in general today do not take responsibility for thier own actions in this world. Not just fisherman or others on the water. We are becoming a society of it is not my fault.
It is not my fault the fish died I tried to release it
It is not my fault he got to close to me, I didn't cut him off
It is not my fault I was at the boat launch first
It is not my fault the bank lent me to much money
It is not my fault the government should have done something about it
When people take responsibility for thier own actions they treat others the way they want to be treated. Think about it. |
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| Guest - 1/26/2009 3:21 PM
[...]
You can't teach common sense and you can't fix stupid no matter how good your intentions are.
That's true. But you can educate those people who just don't know any better.
The intent here is not to create membership criteria, or sign any contracts or anything like that. It's simply to create awareness about the things we do out there that may negatively impact the resource, other anglers, the people who live on the lake, or whoever we happen to interact with. There are a lot of people out there who don't like muskie anglers, often times because of the interactions they've had with us on the water.
As for adding silly stuff to the list? If it's something a majority of anglers are seeing out there that makes your time on the water less enjoyable, presents a danger to the resource, or (and this is perhaps most important) paints all muskie anglers in a bad light, there's nothing silly about it.
I'm glad you mentioned people's perceptions of MI -- that's a big part of this. The way other anglers percieive us interferes with of many of our efforts. It's exactly the point John Skarie is trying to make in the MAC forum. Obviously we don't want to be viewed as elitist. We want to be viewed as stewards of the resourse, courteous and conservation minded anglers, who want what is best for the fishery, and conduct ourselves in an intelligent and respectful manner.
Getting mad when someone takes too much time at the launch? That would probably fall under poor conduct on our part. In fact I will add that:
BE PATIENT WITH OTHER ANGLERS...
I don't know who you are, but the fact that you have taken the time to ask those questions is a step in the right direction. Your input is encouraged.
Edited by esoxaddict 1/26/2009 4:02 PM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | just put a big sign up at say rockford stating simply ... "while you're up north try not to be a dumb-a$$" or something simple like that. |
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Location: Elgin, IL | I also believe that this is a good subject with the best of intent.
Why does everyone seem so edgy lately????? |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | GMG and sled,
You guys kill me. veryvery funny stuff.
Of course no one else would get that stuff.
Classic. |
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