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Posts: 43
Location: Roch NY | I hear people talking about these crazy expensive 150-200 dollar rods, this and that? why would I want those over the IM7 muskie rod I got on sale at Cabela's yesterday for $30?
what makes them so good? are they magical or something?  |
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Posts: 670
Location: Otsego, MN | Weight, Feel, Ease of casting, Longevity, Warranty, Durability, are a few. |
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Posts: 2894
Location: Yahara River Chain | Weight - Maybe, but when we are throwing pounders and we are worried about 1 or 2 ozes?
Feel - If you can't feel a strike on a bucktail, then maybe you have more issues than a high dollar rod can offer. If jig fishing walleyes, I can understand that then.
Ease of casting - I have no problem casting with my Okuma
Longevity - Mostly depends on how you treat them, even the best rods won't last if you are rough on them.
Warranty - My Okuma had a lifetime warrenty, do I need a longer one??
Durability - I don't believe higher modular graphite rods are more durable. |
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Posts: 43
Location: Roch NY | thanks Pedro.
ok. so theres a tiny bit of difference in weight. not like we're talking an ounce vs a pound. is it really going to make a meaningful difference in how long I can fish when I'm chucking already things 3-4x as heavy at the end of the line?
are the differences in feel and ease of casting real or is it just in the minds of those open to the power of suggestion. (i.e. would it pass the pepsi challenge?) and more importantly is it going to catch me more fish?
The warranty I can see, but for the difference in cost I could buy 5- 4 to fish with and a spare for that rare occurence. I've never broken a rod and I've had most for many a moon. Next?
c'mon. give me SOMETHING that might justify the cost or explain where my logic is wrong here. |
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Posts: 43
Location: Roch NY | thanks MN.
appears you took the words out of my mouth! |
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Posts: 431
| My thought is that if you're buying a high dollar rod, you're probably buying it for a specific application. Ex. buying a certain rod for fishing double 1Os or small twitch baits or topwaters. You can get high end rods that are light, fit your application and balance well, which in the end will make a difference in fatigue at the end of the day. There's no sense in buying one expensive rod to do everything when on a limited budget or getting started. Buy several nice lower priced rods that will do what you want. Because I don't like how one of my rods handles the application for which I use it, I'm buying a "high end" rod this spring. I think it will be much easier to cast, and in the end it will make a difference in my effectiveness. |
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| I'm with muskie nut. Like you cant feel a musky bite? I tried Gander rods and love em for everything. And if it breaks, I'll get another one and still have some cash left to by one of those $40 bull dawgs. |
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Posts: 670
Location: Otsego, MN | Anyone in the world can feel a muskie bite. What I meant by feel is how if holds in your hands. I've had many rods and some of the cheaper rods just don't have that "feel" when fishing. I guess maybe it's personal preference. |
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| There is a huge difference if you ever have a chance to spend the day fishing with high quality custom rods....They make the blank to the action you like...but to make it simple...any car will get you to where you are going for the most part...but they all do not drive the same..... |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | Best of luck with your Bargin Bin Rod, but when you go to set the hook on that fish of a lifetime and your rod goes POP like a weasel, then and only then you will know if you got a bargin.   |
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Posts: 43
Location: Roch NY | PIKEMASTER - 1/5/2009 8:15 PM
when you go to set the hook on that fish of a lifetime and your rod goes POP like a weasel, then and only then you will know if you got a bargin. ; )
thats what I'm trying to understand. are the blanks really any different from one another, or are many of the high and low end rods coming from the same blanks with the only difference being in the markup, as i've often heard?
for instance I've seen here that (at least in past years) Gander's are made under contract by other higher-end mfgrs, and the only meaninful differenence is maybe in the guide quality. I would think its the same for other store brands as well. no?
and once you get into IM6 or preferably 7, aren't you assured of some level of quality in the blank itself, or am I mistaken.
thanks guys. don't get me wrong I'm not against the high $$ if its worth it, just against paying for a meaningless, unjustified markup. I'm happy to spend it where it counts. |
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| I muskie fish alot. I fish in way below freezing and way above. The last time I broke a rod was 1998 on a rock and it was a St. Croix. I still use St croix, Falcon and Gander. Zero probs and they throw everything except 2 pounders. For those I pack em in a fire extinguisher and launch em. Sorry I couldnt resist. |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | NitroMusky Good ?????? I don't know, I have got some sale rods in the past and have found that the blanks don't go thru the handles, and very very thin blanks, something not right with the feel /action of the rod. |
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Posts: 43
Location: Roch NY | Richard,
I know what you're saying, and no I'm not talking about super low priced crap from 'bob's backyard rodmakers' or a zebco wannabe, no-name brand X.
lets say mid-range, IM7 blank-through cork handle, fuji guides etc.
sorry I said the price, I got it on deep discount.
I think the thickness of the blank is a fair point.
Edited by NitroMusky 1/5/2009 9:50 PM
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Posts: 2894
Location: Yahara River Chain | PIKEMASTER - 1/5/2009 8:15 PM
Best of luck with your Bargin Bin Rod, but when you go to set the hook on that fish of a lifetime and your rod goes POP like a weasel, then and only then you will know if you got a bargin. ; )
Are you saying this will NEVER happen to a custom or high dollar rod? |
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Posts: 4266
| I used some of the new St Croix Legend Tournament rods last year that were made for specific applications. I always add Bass Pro Shops weight balancers to the butt of every rod that I own, so I rigged them like that too. After a week of throwing big blades and big plastics, I found that I was far less fatigued from retrieving those lures, but even more, these rods were designed to cast the lures that they were specifically designed for. Now I own the entire series, and every one of those rods is an engineering marvel. They are all made for casting what they were designed for. Anything that I can use that keeps me on the water longer with less fatigue and pain is what I'm using. The crankbait rods are a casting and retrieving work of art. Minimum effort on the cast and just the right design for retrieving any cranks from 6" ers to 15"ers. The new rod designers are taking more and more into consideration before the rods head out the door. I'd say that the new St Croix rods are the best muskie rods ever made, regardless of length or action. Everthing is taken into consideration. You can buy cheaper rods and be happy with them. Every one is different. But I chose the rods that are the most comfortable for me to use, the ones that do the best job when it comes to casting, and retrieving, not to mention being Made in The USA with a lifetime warranty and durability that is better than any rod.
You're not doing anything wrong by buying an economical rod, but neither am I by getting the best that I can. I won't curse you and hope your rod breaks, but I do hope that you get to fish with guys like me who have lots of rods/reels/lures so you can feel the difference.
Beaver |
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Posts: 1636
| Be careful with cheap rods. An extra heavy "cheap" rod is usually, actually a medium heavy, or will turn into one quickly if you throw bigger baits or catch a lot of fish. My experience with cheaper rods is they will get flimsy pretty quick, which will give you a weaker hookset. Not all cheap rods are cheap, but when going with brands like Bass Pro or Cabelas, they most likely are. "Higher-end," "cheap rods" are the way to go. For example... a St. Croix Premier is a higher priced rod, but cheaper than the Avid. Hope this makes some sense. |
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Posts: 392
Location: lake x...where the hell is it? | muskie! nut - 1/5/2009 10:21 PM
PIKEMASTER - 1/5/2009 8:15 PM
Best of luck with your Bargin Bin Rod, but when you go to set the hook on that fish of a lifetime and your rod goes POP like a weasel, then and only then you will know if you got a bargin. ; )
Are you saying this will NEVER happen to a custom or high dollar rod?
my $120.00 8' TICA broke into 3 peices on hook-set on a 40" fish and it was only 3 months old. |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | I have 3 TICA rods that I have used alot, but a don't lock down my drag, guess I'm been lucky. I think the chances of you breaking a rod with a no name is higher then say a St Croix. Last year Gander Mtn had St Croix rods at half price on a blow out, that's a good deal to me. GOOD LUCK with your rods, I mean it, but I don't think all IM7 or 8 rods are made with the same specs
Edited by PIKEMASTER 1/6/2009 7:48 AM
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Posts: 401
| I am not going to comment on any of the rods I have not used but I will say that in my experience there have been two blanks that have been well worth the money. Diamondback (old series) and the New St Croix Legend (SC 4M series) rod blanks.
You can spend 300 on other sticks but there are none that I have built on that are worth the extra cash like the St Croix Legend series. I know I have said it before but when it comes to action, weight and strength there is nothing that compares. The new Sling Blade weight 6.2 ounces with an incredible action and strength that is second to none. The video of Saric trying to break a piece of the blank with his hands during his show says it all. What makes this blank different is you get that strength without the added weight. If you are looking to save money on the short term then this is not the stick…if you are looking to invest in a stick that will last with a series of great actions then this is your stick.
Their new ART/APC design will leave the others playing catch up.
Keith
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| just like with anything...boats, cars, reels, etc etc...you get what you pay for....
If you don't fish that much, say under 20 days a year do you need to go out and buy a $250+ rod? no.
if you are on the water A LOT...say 300+ hours per year..will you enjoy having a rod built for specific applications, imo, yes, again it's not a need, but a want for most.
I use to have a fleet of All Star Western Inshore series rods, at the time of purchase back in about 1999/2000, i could get an 8'6" for 120 bucks. to this day I think they are about the best value a guy can get if you get one. But after buying one of Keiths Diamondbacks (pre Cortland) in 9' length, my All Stars almost became obsolete, I loved the DB that much. you can easily get buy with cheaper rods, Ticas, Okumas etc etc all make a decent rod, I've thrown many other brands and they all feel ok...but spend a day with a custom rod built for the application you are using it for and you won't go back...if your wallet allows....I now have only one All Star left, and the rest are all Keiths...DB's, and I just got a 9' built on the Legend blank he mentions above...wow...that thing is awesome...soon to be added a 9' Sling Blade rod...Rods to me are just like tools..use the right tool for the right job and you will be happier...and if you are on the water A LOT..not 10, not 50 not 100, but say ~300+ hours as some of us are per season...try a custom and you won't be dissapointed....imo. |
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Posts: 743
| I don't care how many hours you spend on the water. I have Diamondbacks and this weekend will get a SlingBlade. It makes fishing more enjoyable and less physically exhausting. You will benefit from a high end rod no matter how many hours you fish muskies. I would think anyone on this board takes musky fishing seriously, no matter how many hours he gets to fish, and therefore should buy the best you can afford. You will notice the difference.
Edited by KSauers 1/6/2009 9:48 AM
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Posts: 8790
| I can think of a couple reasons one might want a custom rod...
(hopefully the rod builders can chime in here and correct me on some of this)
1. Guides are placed along the spine of the rod, so the blank loads up properly during a cast and while fighting a fish. Why does this matter? It affects your ability to put a lure exactly where you want it when casting, and your ability to control a fish at boatside.
2. Guides are spaced according to the characteristics of that individual blank. Why does this matter? It makes for optimal casting distance with minimal effort.
3. You can pick which type of guides you want. Why does this matter? Higher quality guides are less apt to crack, bend, break, and provide reduced friction when casting.
4. Higher quality reel seats. Why does this matter? They won't slip, loosen up, or come unglued from the blank.
5. Better balance. Why does this matter? Casting effort and effort required to work lures is greatly reduced with a properly balanced rod, as you are not fighting the weight of the rod.
6. You can choose blank/wrap/and guide colors. Why does this matter? It looks cool.
The bottom line here is that a custom rod is made specifically for you, for specific applications, with a level of care and detail that simply is not possible with a mass produced rod.
I would refrain from buying customs right away, though. It takes a long time to develop your own style of fishing, and to find out what you do and don't want out of a rod. (or any other piece of equipment) If you don't fish enough, or haven't fished long enough to be able to articulate that, the additional expense of a custom rod is probably not a wise investment in my opinion.
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| Aside from the quality difference in the rod blank, watch the eye inserts, tip and reel seat. Usually the componetns are not high quality and can cause some problems.
I do have a couple of low priced rods from Gander that I use when on vacations when the whole family is casting. The rods perform great, but I have had the inserts crack and a reel seat loosen up. The good thing about a Gander or Cabela's rod is that they will replace them with no questions asked. Like all equipment, it is a bummer when you are on a trip and you have equipment failures. That is one reason I use the higher priced versions you are referring to.
Hope your Cabelas rod works out good for you! (If not, my recommendation is to cut back on new bait purchases for the year and funnel some $ into a mid priced rod that works for you.)
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Posts: 164
| So what would be the advantage of buying custom rod over a St Croix legend tournament series other that custom color rod wrap? |
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Posts: 90
| Found this in describing what IM7 is. Pretty interesting.
The first thing you should know is there is no industry standard for IM6, IM7and IM8. Rather, it’s a “range” that manufacturers use to classify their rods according to the “modulus” content. Modulus is a term that describes the stiffness to weight ratio of the graphite that’s used to create the rod blank. Here’s how it works….when you cast a lure, the rod flexes with the weight of the lure, storing energy as it flexes. When the motion of the rod stops, the rod flexes and releases all of its stored energy to propel the lure. When you increase the modulus of the graphite, you increase the ability of that graphite to store and release energy. You also increase the speed that the rod releases the stored energy. That in turn, increases the lure speed that is generated in the cast. Increase the modulus and you increase the reaction speed and power of the rod blank.
DrPepin- You can purchase a St Croix tournament blank and make it a custom. What you would get as advantages by going custom are as esoxaddict listed 1-5 above or
1. Guides are placed along the spine of the rod, so the blank loads up properly during a cast and while fighting a fish. Why does this matter? It affects your ability to put a lure exactly where you want it when casting, and your ability to control a fish at boatside.
2. Guides are spaced according to the characteristics of that individual blank. Why does this matter? It makes for optimal casting distance with minimal effort.
3. You can pick which type of guides you want. Why does this matter? Higher quality guides are less apt to crack, bend, break, and provide reduced friction when casting.
4. Higher quality reel seats. Why does this matter? They won't slip, loosen up, or come unglued from the blank.
5. Better balance. Why does this matter? Casting effort and effort required to work lures is greatly reduced with a properly balanced rod, as you are not fighting the weight of the rod.
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Posts: 108
Location: Toronto, ON | Don't forget the "fat" cork on customs!!! |
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Posts: 90
| Also, I don't know if this was touched on but the spine of the rod is a kid of natural backbone, or in other words, every rod is designed to bend on it's spine, if it is not then it will try to, which if you have ever felt the rod roll in your hands is the rod trying to bend so it is on it's spine. This effects pretty much every part of fishing with the rod. There is not a single rod manufacturer that actually spines the rod. |
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Posts: 401
| Couple things besides what has been said above.
Stainless steel tip tops. No ring to ever come out.
Second coat of glue. Covers all the thread to include under the guide post. Water can break down thread over time.
Length/Size of cork. You design what works best for you.
Best components at any given time. Here is an example.
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| what makes them so good? are they magical or something?
they're not magical, but they're close!
in my experience, "feel" does matter even in a muskie rod. it may not be necessary for knowing when a fish smashes a bucktail, but there are times when they just hold or tap a bait and you need to feel it happen: jig fishing over shallow sand, big joes out suspended, a glider on the pause...
even moreso is being able to feel exactly what your lure is doing: is it ticking the tops of the weeds? is it thumping at the right speed? etc.
if possible for you, the best thing to do is to try out various rods for a full day of fishing to discover whether or not they feel any better for you and how you fish.
every rod, regardless of how much it costs, has different characteristics. there are some very expensive rods out there that don't feel right to me, there are some higher-end ones that i really like (Pro Edge Diamondback, St Croix Legend) and there are some relatively inexpensive rods (such as Okumas) that offer good quality and are a great choice for my style of fishing too.
try some different rods out and get the one that gives you what you want within your budget.
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