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Posts: 39
| I am a relatively new angler looking for tips on fishing suckers for the first time this weekend in Eagle River. Any info on techniques, hookset, etc would be appreciated. Thanks for your help!...
Edited by Believer 10/21/2008 5:42 PM
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | This clip explains how to rig a Howie Rig and is in my opinion one of if not the best sucker rig I've ever used. It's very simple and has the best hookup ratio I've seen compared to others I've used. I know many other guys on this board use this rig.
http://upload.outdoorsfirst.com/watch.asp?id=790
Edited by Merckid 10/21/2008 6:05 PM
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Posts: 454
| Please use some sort of quick release harness. I like the Mania Lift off Rigs. Put a treble on each side of the sucker, one towards the stomach, one towards the back on opposite sides. One should also be closer to the head and one towards the center of the body. When you get a muskie to take your sucker make sure it is moving away from you before setting the hooks. Some people like to use the trolling motor to "chase down" the fish and set the hooks from right above them. Do not let the muskie hold the sucker for a long time as that will increase the chances of the fish swallowing hooks.
This type of rig requires a rubber band run through the nose of the sucker. Pretty easy to do, but takes a little practice.
Set the hooks as hard as you can, try to break the rod when you give your hookset.
Good luck! |
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Location: Des Moines IA | I like the howie rig also, but I use a slightly modified version. It's the same rig, swivel at one end, hook at the other. I then attach a larger snap around the tiger material so it can slide up and down smoothly, then instead of putting a hole in the lip of the sucker and running the whole rig through the hole, I just push the opened snap through the top of the lip, and close it. Pretty simple, very effective. |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | Want easy?
1) 2/0-4/0 Single Circle Hook (emphasis on CIRCLE) Mustad Demon Circles are great, especially red if you can find them
2) 80-100 lb fluro carbon (100 lb will require a crimp, 80 can be tied)
3) Large Thill slip bobber float
4) 1/2 - 1oz rubber core sinkers
5) Small Twister tails (walleye size), whole or parts to slip over the barb once you hook the sucker through the lip.
Float goes under, wait about 10 minutes, use the trolling motor to get along side the fish, lift straight up, not a snapping hookset, just pressure at all times. Net. Enjoy.
I've heard all the "you can't do that's", "you're killing fish", "they swallow it".
I've had two fish, in the 5 years I've been running flouro and circles, swallow..of about 100 fish that have taken the rig. 9 times out of 10 the circle is in the corner of the mouth and many pop out when there's slack line after the fish is in the net.
I see at least 2/3's more fish than running lift offs, suckers alot more lively and their longevity is 5x that of a lift off where you puncture the sucker.
To each his own. |
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| so 2 dead fish is ok to you then? Do you have a lift off rig and circle hook rig out at the same time to figure out your "2/3rds more" stat? |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | 1) Yup. I am pefectly fine with 80-90% survival. You? And you think by running lift-offs you get 100% survival? What's more stressful, a hok that comes out by itself in a net or cutting out 2-3 trebels?
2) Running lift offs for upwards of 20 years then circles for the last 5 gives me a pretty decent idea of how many more fish I'm seeing. Same holds true with Fluro leaders.
Edited by Gander Mt Guide 10/22/2008 12:12 PM
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Posts: 454
| I have never used a cirlce rig so I am not going to comment on their effectiveness or the danger the have on a muskie (that is documented).
I use lift off rigs and I can't imagine my suckers being any more lively than they are. They swim and do whatever they want in the water with the Mania lift off rigs.
I will sacrifice a couple of missed fish to ensure they live once they are caught.
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | There's absolutely zero garuntee they'll live. How do you know what happens after it leaves the net, the bump board, the gunnels of the boat when you take time to cut hooks, take pics and/or degorge. you have no idea, I have no idea.
Fish swallow hooks no matter if its a circle or a trebel..that's documented. |
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Posts: 371
Location: Dixon, IL | 2008 Illinois Fishing Information from IDNR....Recreation Use Restrictions..All live bait in excess of 8" must be rigged with a quick set rig on Muskie lakes in Illinois!
Believer, there's famous tackle shop in Eagle River on the Main Street close to downtown of Eagle River and they would be happy to help you how to take care of suckers, rig, etc! They have ready made rigs! |
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Posts: 454
| Yes, they will swallow hooks (circle or treble) no matter what as long as you give them the time (10 minutes) before setting the hook. The premise behind a quick strike rig is that you are setting the hook QUICKLY and not allowing the fish time to swallow the hooks.
We are talking different things here. Do fish die from handling them? If not done properly yes, and even if you do everything right is there a chance they won't make it, yes. But you still net fish with circle hooks, use a bump board, take a picture, and release it. Those are different reasons for a fish not to survive. I was only talking hooks. It isn't the circle hook killing the fish, it is the 10 minutes you give it to ingest the sucker. If the sucker gets swallowed, so does the hook.
As stated, I have never used a circle rig, nor do I plan on it for the reasons stated above.
As you said, to each his own... |
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Posts: 691
Location: nationwide | GmG,
I have used circle hooks (daiichi improved circle hooks) for over 8 years and would agree with your survival rates. In that time I have never released a fish with any part of a rig still with the fish. Yes I have had to cut rigs and hooks but never sent a fish away with any part of a rig. With that said I would still think there is some mortality, I also believe there is some mortality in the fish I release in the summer, it's just a fact and part of fishing.
I originally used a single circle hook rig and have since graduated to what I call a circle hook quick set which is one circle hook attached to a rubber band through the nostrils and another circle hook near the rear of the sucker attached with a rubber band wrapped around the sucker. The time to set the hook, or in this rigs case engage the reel and start reeling is the same as any other trebled quick set rig, the sucker is not ingested. One of the two circle hooks usually end up in the corner of the fishes mouth. I say usually because I do miss fish on this rig just like any other.
I would be interested to see how the term "quick-set" is defined in the regulations for Illinois.
I hate to see this post turn into a rig bashing thread when all a guy wanted was some quick info on sucker fishing.
Corey Meyer
Edited by muskymeyer 10/22/2008 2:06 PM
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Posts: 371
Location: Dixon, IL | Quick set rig was idea from England Pike Anglers. They care to release fish! When float go down or you know the fish take a bait (no float) with quick set rig then you do firm set the hook then take easy until the fish land. Long rod is other thing is great for quick set rigs. In' Fishermen magazine discussed about it in 1980's!
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Posts: 371
Location: Dixon, IL | 2008 Illinois Fishing Information IDNR
45) When using live bait, all live bait in excess of 8 inches in total shall be rigged with a quick set rig. The Hook shall be immediately set upon the strike. Quick set rig is defined as follows: a live bait rig with up to 2 treble hooks attached anywhere on the live bait, single hooks prohibited. The rule does not apply to trotlines, jug lines, etc. , if allowed on the lake. |
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Posts: 691
Location: nationwide | Hmmmmm . . . . interesting description. If Wisconsin changes to this rule it looks like I will need to solder a couple tiny treble hooks onto the circle hooks to circumvent the rule.
Hopefully by that time motor trolling will be allowed on the Chippewa Flowage. 
Corey Meyer |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | "All live bait in excess of 8" must be rigged with a quick set rig on Muskie lakes in Illinois!"
When I fish Illinios, I'll be sure to bring a ruler measuring no longer than 7.875" |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | "The premise behind a quick strike rig is that you are setting the hook QUICKLY"
What about lures with trebs? Ever have a musky take one gullet deep? Happens all the time and I'd bet dollars to doughuts that hook set is 5x quicker than one with a lift off....first you hear the clicker, then you find the rod, then you hope the fish is swiming away from you, then you set....that can be at least 15-20 seconds. Far from QUICK in my book.
You fish your way, I'll fish mine. I won't change your mind (although I have changed others) and believe me, you wont change mine.
Don't worry, be happy. |
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Posts: 1316
Location: Madison, WI | I've used both, and had success with both. Used more circle hooks on catfish and pike. A couple pike come back gut hooked, but way more in the in corner of the mouth. I personally like to quick strike everything muskie, that's just cause I'm partial to setting the hook rather than reel into the fish.
Edited by Magruter 10/22/2008 3:10 PM
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
The notion that allowing a fish to swallow a sucker, and then pulling it back out is harmless is absurd.
If you think that, than you aren't thinking.
JS
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| Hope not too many minds have been changed; even the most experienced guides don't do better than 70% with circle hooks. Some of the lakes in northern Wi. are still suffering from single hook use 10 years ago. Swallow one yourself and see if you can cough it up without hurting yourself. |
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Posts: 395
Location: NW WI | As I'm still a relative newbie on QS rigs (just started to use suckers a few years ago -- just never believed in using live bait for muskies) I was looking forward to reading how some go about this...as I find the Maina rig cumbersome (just don't do it enough I guess).
It's sad when a simple question turns into a bash fest...an all too common occurrence on the Internet. |
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Posts: 454
| I think for the most part people have been respectful and just shared info and their thoughts. I hope none of my posts were considered bashing.
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| I have to agree with John Skarie on this one...just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. If a fish under the size limit swallows a rig and you cut the line...imo should be ticketed for killing a fish under the size limit. no different than the guys on shore with swallow rigs.
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | "If you think that, than you aren't thinking."
You fish with hooks John? because more trebels kill fish per year than circles do.
BN? What if an undersized fish ate 2 trebs up to the gullet? Whats the chances of survival then? I think you folks using trebel rigs, that don't set IMMEDIATLY, should be ticketed as well then.
I think some of you aren't understanding the premise behind CIRCLE hooks. Not jusy plain "j" hooks. |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | "Swallow one yourself and see if you can cough it up without hurting yourself."
Should I try a pair of 3/0 trebels and see what's worse??? |
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Posts: 344
Location: Musky Country | Believer - 10/21/2008 5:41 PM
I am a relatively new angler looking for tips on fishing suckers for the first time this weekend in Eagle River. Any info on techniques, hookset, etc would be appreciated. Thanks for your help!... |
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| no, GMG i perfectly understand your premise..I use circle hooks for cats all the time...we set once they take off with the bait...we don't let them swallow the bait for 10 minutes like you do...
sorry, I just don't agree with allowing a fish to swallow a sucker with any type of hook in it....quick set, j hook or your circle hooks....
the laws are written so you can, but that may not mean it's right.
I also find it very hard to believe you think you would have had action from 66 less fish by using a quick site over the last 5 yrs...very hard to believe..i fish in vilas all the time and we get tons of action by using quicksets ...i get way more than 20 pickups per season using my quick sets... |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
I fully understand the premise of circle hooks.
You can use them in "quick strike fashion", and not let them take it for 10 minutes.
You don't let any fish swallow something if you intend to release it.
If you don't agree with that, fine, but don't pretend you know you aren't hurting fish by pulling a sucker back out it's throat with any kind of hook.
You're using this method because it catches more fish, not because it's more fish friendly.
JS |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Well Said John. Kingfisher |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Gander Mt Guide - 10/23/2008 1:48 PM
BN? What if an undersized fish ate 2 trebs up to the gullet? Whats the chances of survival then? I think you folks using trebel rigs, that don't set IMMEDIATLY, should be ticketed as well then.
QUOTE]
You guys have both made good points and You G.M.G. just made a case against your allowing cirle hook to be swallowed. I have followed this debate for as many years as I have had a computer. Here in Michigan I have watched guys use Treble hooks on wire leaders to tip up fish for pike. They allow the pike to swallow the minnow completly and then rip thier guts out. If the pike is too small they stick it back down the hole. Dead pike every time. Now in Wisconsin SOME OF YOU GUYS think that this rig has somehow magicly become a quickstrike rig????? I can not now or ever have been able to grasp how a treble hook swallow rig can be different in another state? Many of you have Demonized the Single J hook as a fish Killer. Granted if the fisherman allows the fish to swallow a Jhook and rips the fishes stomach when he set it that J hook is going to kill that fish. BUT------ a swallowed treble is going to kill one even faster because it has three barbs not one. I have said this a thousand times there is no such thing as a Quick strike rig. Any hook can be used to quick strike a Fish and any hook can be swallowed and cause death.
The best example I can give is Brook trout fishing with worms. I used to let brookies eat a worm until it was in the stomach before reeling them in. I killed hundreds of sub legals before I realized that I had to change my whole Idea of what is ethical. Now when mr Brookie hits my bait I hit him back. If I hook him cool, thats great! Trout for supper if its a keeper but if its a small one I remove the barbless J Hook and he goes back to grow. You see I learned that I dont have to hook and land every fish that takes my bait. So what if I dont hook them all, those fish live on to bite another day.
Now comes the truth that most of you are conditioned to disagree with. A BARBLESS J HOOK used properly is the easiest on Muskies and pike because they cause very little damage to jaw tissue. But No one uses them properly. This hook has been labeled a swallow hook when in fact it is just a hook. The truth about single hooks is that there have been instructions on packages that teach fishermen to allow pike and muskies to swallow the bait before setting. This is what you all should be fighting are these instructions. Just for the sake of sub legal pike the instructions should be banned not the hooks. I know several guys over here who use barbless 7/0 single hooks and quick set with them using tip ups and they do not kill sub legal pike. SURE THEY MISS A LOT OF FISH but they kill zero sub legals. The key words here are quick set.
So what I am saying is this, If you add what Gander and John said in the last several posts #1 We should not let a Musky or Pike or any other fish for that matter completly swallow (ANY TYPE) of hook.
#2 Any type of hook swallowed can Kill fish even Circles.
#3 Any type of hook can be used to quick set a Musky or any other type of fish.
Quick setting is an action not a thing. Its a mind set that starts with this ethical premise. I would rather miss a few and hook them all in the mouth then kill a few and risk many others so I can hook them all by letting them run with the bait.
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