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Posts: 280
Location: Pewaukee WI | Is there a limit as to how many fingerlings the DNR allows for stocking purposes in GB? Is the amount of fish stocked limited by the amount of funds raised by private clubs?
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Posts: 2893
Location: Yahara River Chain | Due to VHSv stocking is no longer an option. The only place the WDNR can get eggs now are from the GB/Fox River and when VHSv showed up in the Bay of Green Bay, that put the end to taking any eggs from there. They are trying to secure eggs from Canada's Georgian Bay, but the real question will be if the Feds will allow the WDNR to do this.
This is one reason that many of us sponsored a bill at the Conservation Congress Hearing to raise the size limit from 50 to 54. This will almost be certain that all muskies get release back because there are no more young ones to replace those getting harvested. |
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| Thanks for the info! This is bad news. |
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| That's terrible --hope they get approval for the eggs from georgian bay. That VHS is really starting to mess things up!!!!!!! |
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Posts: 129
Location: Glenmoore PA | not trying to hijack the thread, but i was wondering if any natural reproduction is taking place for the green bay musky? Is there suitable habitat that promotes natural reproduction? |
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Posts: 2060
Location: Appleton,WI | there was a study this year at the end of may to early june that the DNR was going to spot light the shallows out in the bay looking for paired up muskys for 3 weeks then come back and sift for eggs.Im not sure if this actually happened.I will email dave and find out.They also had hoop netting from the fox river to the mennominee and also up the east side looking for spawning fish in shallow bays and weedy areas,i know the water was clearer further north and less fish were captured in the nets.
Actually here is the response from the green bay DNR office:
We will begin working our spring nets for muskies on the Fox River tomorrow April 30th. We will fish the nets for the next week and probably stop next Friday. We could use an additional pair of hands each day. If you are interested and are available, I will be accepting one volunteer for each day. Please email me back and let me know which day you would be available to help and I will schedule you in. Depending on the catch it could be a half day to a full day of work. Right now the river temps have dropped down to the high 40's but as they warm into the mid 50s we should have good catches.
Also as the Bay starts to warm we will begin night-time spotlighting for spawning muskies, this will likely begin next week or the week of the 12th. We could also use some volunteers to ride along and identify spawning areas. This will occur from 8pm-??, but likely will finish around 11-12pm.
Edited by MuskieE 8/12/2008 9:24 PM
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| why are they spotlighting?
Thanks |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | muskie! nut - 8/11/2008 1:52 PM Due to VHSv stocking is no longer an option. The only place the WDNR can get eggs now are from the GB/Fox River and when VHSv showed up in the Bay of Green Bay, that put the end to taking any eggs from there. Actually, taking eggs from the bay is an option. Both Michigan and Ohio have reared fertilized eggs from VHSv positive adults and produced clean fry/fingerlings. |
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Posts: 999
| Guest, they are spot lighting to look for spawing pairs under the cover of darkness. |
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| The question is how much natural reproduction is occuring. From what i've read it is very minimal. With fishing pressure at its highest its ever been this is not a good situation. |
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| muskie! nut - 8/11/2008 12:52 PM
......... and when VHSv showed up in the Bay of Green Bay, that put the end to taking any eggs from there.
This confuses me. If the fish "here" could/do already have it, and any fish you stock here from somewhere else eventually could/will have VHS......why can't they harvest eggs in the Fox like other years and stock the results of that back into the bay???? This way, whatever diseases are there, only get put back in, and, so what's the danger?
There's been some discussion on the success of the spawn on the Fox, lower Bay, et al, but to me it sure seems that the fry would fare far better in a hatchery than in the muck at the bottom of the Fox.
I guess you'd have to decontaminate the hatchery, but at least you keep putting fish back into the system. Especially considering the poor to non-existant reproduction in the lower bay, and the danger VHS poses to the fish in there now. "Clean" eggs are going to be hard to come by from now on, at least ones from GLS waters which seem to be the hotspots for VHS. They do these little on-site hatchery wagons for other fish. I was there to take photos when they released a couple dozen tiny little lake sturgeon into the Manitowoc River last fall. Eggs were tanken from fish below the Shawano dam that spring and reared in this trailer along side of the river until they were let loose that fall. All these things are is an tank and a filtration system inside a vendor trailer like you see at the county fair selling corn dogs. Water goes in from the river and gets dumped back into the river. Sure seems like decontamination would be pretty easy.
I guess I'm just hoping that the recovery in the lower bay doesn't become a flash in the pan and a story I'll tell my kids about one day, rather, one that I can have them experience themselves some day.
-Eric
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Posts: 999
| The Wild Rose fish hatchery is where these fish have been reared in the past has been under reconstruction so there wasn't any room to raise musky fingerlings this year or last from what I've heard. They used the majority of their availible space for the great lake species of salmon and trout (spotted carp) so hopefully in the near future they can raise spotty's once again. I personally wish they could just stock a bunch of Kaleb's fish hatchery musky's in the bay for a year or two to suppliment the spotty program. It's quite obvious how the Kaleb's fish did in Mille Lacs. The Kaleb's fish are also the ones that are stocked in Shawano each year. (one of the Kaleb's old female spawners that died this year was 57 inches!! And she was a WI strain like the rest of the Kalebs) There's more then enough money availible to stock the bay with whatever strain but with the limited stocking last year (1,000 throughout the entire bay) and none this year this is only going to hurt the program stocking wise. |
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Location: Yahara River Chain | muskie-addict - 8/15/2008 8:19 PM
This confuses me. If the fish "here" could/do already have it, and any fish you stock here from somewhere else eventually could/will have VHS......why can't they harvest eggs in the Fox like other years and stock the results of that back into the bay???? This way, whatever diseases are there, only get put back in, and, so what's the danger?
-Eric
While true, it you take eggs from a water that is contaminated and return them to that just water and only that water, you would be fine. BUT.....
I have heard it takes over a year to decontaminate a hatchery. Of course, If they take the fertilized eggs to a inland hatchery and the eggs are contaminated with VHSv (actually the water) it would infect not only the hatchery but all waters downstream that hatchery discharges its outflow into. The WDNR is not about to risk doing this.
Edited by muskie! nut 8/15/2008 9:15 PM
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Posts: 999
| Just another great reason why they should stock a "variety package" of different strain of musky's in this water. I personally would like to see them stock "other" strains of fish into this large system to see if "ANY" of these different strains can reproduce. Why limit yourself to the Lake St. Clair fish.... Again because of the PAPERMILLS we have hundreds of thousands of dollars to play with here that ISN"T being spent on anything but research right now. I say stock it with whatever we have, we cant afford to lose 1, or 2, or 3 years to see what this "VHS" is going to do. If there so concerned about the VHS then the 54" inch size limit would have past through the Great Lakes Commitee with flying colors, and avidentely they weren't too darn concerned about it.
Mr Musky |
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| The fish are not from St. Claire. Please no what you are talking about before you speak. |
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Posts: 133
Location: Lake Tomahawk, Musky Central, USA | So what's the update on VHS these days..did they pin point where exactly it came from? Can anyone direct my lazy butt to a site giving that info? |
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While true, it you take eggs from a water that is contaminated and return them to that just water and only that water, you would be fine. BUT.....
I have heard it takes over a year to decontaminate a hatchery. Of course, If they take the fertilized eggs to a inland hatchery and the eggs are contaminated with VHSv (actually the water) it would infect not only the hatchery but all waters downstream that hatchery discharges its outflow into. The WDNR is not about to risk doing this.
Riiiiiiiiiight, which is exactly why I ask why they can't use these hatchery trailers like the one they used for the Manty River sturgeon. Again, those baby sturgeons were brought in from Shawano, moved to Manitowoc Co, hatched and reared in the trailer next to the Manitowoc River by Branch or Cato....can't remember....where they were ultimately released last fall after spending a summer in that trailer along side the river. The scent of the water being pumped in on the fish imprints on them, in the hopes they'll return there to spawn there some day. In the case of the muskies, same thing. Park that baby at the Fairgrounds or at the Coast Guard station, somewhere it could be safe behind a locked fence. Preferrably multiple trailers at multiple sites so the fish return to different areas of the bay and river, not all in one spot. Water goes in from the river....gets pumped back into the same river. VHS in, VHS out.
I'm not going to pretend to know anything about stocking or VHS here, but this has worked for sturgeon. And I can only speculate here, but I'd surely think that a small hatchery trailer wouldn't take an entire year to decontaminate. The state is telling us to wait, what.... a couple weeks or less (after draining all water from our boats) before going from a VHS water to a non-VHS body of water. Again, I'm no expert here, but seems like if you dry that baby out, you'd be back in the hatchery business in a few weeks. Of course, that's if that trailer wouldn't rear Fox River/Bay muskies again next spring.
Anyway, loooks good on paper. Perhaps muskies don't rear well in trailers or something. Seems like someone would have thought of this already if it was do-able. Just throwing it out there.
-Eric |
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Posts: 1270
| I'm confused. The WDNR doesn't want to harvest eggs from Green Bay because of VHS but want eggs from Gorgian Bay? Isn't this all the same water? I know it's far away but doesn't all Great Lakes water basically co-mingle? |
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Location: Yahara River Chain | reelman - 8/16/2008 1:46 PM
I'm confused. The WDNR doesn't want to harvest eggs from Green Bay because of VHS but want eggs from Gorgian Bay? Isn't this all the same water? I know it's far away but doesn't all Great Lakes water basically co-mingle?
The spreader of VHSv in these waters are the trout and salmon. It just may be that they do not go into that water????? I'm just not sure. |
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Posts: 1270
| I thought there were several different carriers of VHS including species that are warmer water ones like sheephead. Plus I don't really know if the muskys of the Bay really ever get up far enough north to get to cold enough water were the salmon are or visa versa.
Not trying to argue with you at all, just trying to figure this thing out. |
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Posts: 2893
Location: Yahara River Chain | reelman, carriers yes, but they do not travel like trout and salmon do. Those fish you mentioned may live their entire lives in certain areas of a lake and may not travel out of a bay or river.
Another words, ft the trout and salmons were immune to this virus, it would take years for it to spread throughout the entire Great Lakes.
I hope that cleared things up. |
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| If I'm not mistaken, and I could be, I thought the reason they weren't going to bring in any muskies from Georgian was in case there was/is/could be different strains of the virus up on those waters that would be brought to Green Bay.
Which is kinda silly to me, since there are frieghters moving water around the great lakes every day, not to mention whatever they're bringing in from the Caspain, etc., on a daily basis.
To me, this is just like the emergency minnow rules WI put in effect. Great, so I was forced to dump my minnows at the end of the day (which didn't have VHS anyway), so I didn't spread VHS that way.....but my motor, bunk carpeting, trailer tubing, bilge, livewell, etc., brought water, and possibly diseases or exotics from the lake I was just at yesterday to the lake I'm going to today anyway.
In our muskie scenario....what's the difference if eggs or a stocked fish brings it when the next ore boat or frieghter hauling cement, gravel or coal docks on the Fox and pukes her ballast water into the river after traveling through the Great Lakes?
Obviously stopping or slowing this disease is the goal, I get that. I just think everyone should play by the rules then. Side question: wasn't some of the money generated by the BOTB Tourney earmarked for stocking, and what's happening to that money now? Waiting for "clean" eggs? |
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| Mr. Musky. The eggs came from fish from Indian Creek in Michigan. Indian Creek is no where near St Clair. It is in the northern part of the state. While the fish are of the native great lakes strain, they are virtualy land locked and could probably not make it to the great lakes. St Clair has nothing to do with where the fish came from. |
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Posts: 999
| I apoligize, I was told it was a tributary to St. Clair, thanks for setting me straight!
Mr Musky |
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Posts: 113
Location: Green Bay, WI | Although the majority of the eggs came from Indian River area of Michigan there was one year in which some eggs came from Lake St. Claire. I believe it was for diversification just like they want to do with the Georgian Bay eggs that the DNR tried to get back to Green Bay last year.
The money from the botb tournament run by Muskies Inc. hosted by the local chapter Titletown went to the Georgian Bay project. Titletown/Muskies Inc. along with the Wisconsin DNR paid the money in hopes of receiving the fry from Canada. The project worked out great but the Feds did not lift the restrictions on bringing fish and eggs across the borders even though these fish were tested and were found to be VHS free. The fish were released into Georgian Bay. Wisconsin was willing to take these fish but obviously couldn't. We are hoping the restrictions are lifted in time for this year. I haven't heard anything one way or the other on this.
The last thing they want to see in the re-introduction of these fish is natural reproduction. This year they wanted to spot light in the spring but this didn't work well with the high water levels that we had early this year. There was probably other reasons also. David Rowe the fish biologist for the area contacted me about 3 weeks ago about a new project that he was proposing for the next 2 years. The DNR project would have the DNR capture 10 females from the river and 10 from the bay early in the spring and inserting a transmitter in them. When the fish spawn the transmitter would be deposited with the eggs. This transmitter would work for 60 days giving time for a graduate student working the project to find the areas take samples and ultimately find fry confirming natural reproduction. David has a grant for the 2 year project that will cover the graduate student he asked the Green Bay Coalition if we could come up with funding for the transmitters and some gas for the graduate students boat. Approximately 3750 a year. Titletown along with Packerland had their meetings this past week and they voted in favor of supporting this project. I'm just waiting to hear from the other area clubs as they have their meetings. Hope this helps.
Jay Zahn
Titletown Muskies Inc.
VP-Communications Muskies Inc.
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I also understood that one stocking event used St Claire as a source. |
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Posts: 2893
Location: Yahara River Chain | Jazon, have you heard anything about the proposed 54" size rule that went through the CC Hearings in April????
As a presenter here in Dane County, I have not heard a thing about it. |
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Posts: 113
Location: Green Bay, WI | Have not heard anything. I know last year the hearings for these issues took place in the end of September. I will post as soon as I hear anything. Hopefully it gets added to the questionnaire next spring. Then we have to rally the troops and get out and vote this thing in.
Jay Zahn
Titletown Muskies Inc.
VP-Communications Muskies Inc. |
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| jazon - 8/17/2008 7:18 PM
The last thing they want to see in the re-introduction of these fish is natural reproduction.
Jay, did you really mean the above statement, and if so, why? |
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| Any true biologist would never in there good conscience stock a non native salmonid species in the great lakes. Yet salmonids are the glory fish of the great lakes. Some biologist will argue on end about the dangers of stocking musky from different watersheds (Which I think may be a valid point) and then turn around and stock fish from half way around the world.
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