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Posts: 27
Location: Montreal, QC | I heard a lot of guys, who called themselves "musky fishermen", saying that they "caught" fishes when they were on a guided trip and it make me wonder what you guys are thinking of a "guided fish"?
Isn't a bit like saying that you had a good night when, in fact, you hire a hooker (i mean... not the lure)? You paid a professional to do it. Another example, you were on a trip to Mexico and take a charter. You happen to reel in a swordfish. Would you call yourself a "swordfish fisherman"?
A guide literally do most of the job for you: driving his costly boat to the right locations and showing you the appropriates technics for the body of water you were on at this time of the year. For me, a "guided fish" is something nice and fun to have, but nothing to be proud of, as i don't feel like i earn it... |
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Posts: 1316
Location: Madison, WI | if counting fish means that much to you, you're doing this for the wrong reasons.... imho. |
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Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Lots of very accomplished anglers hire guides to learn the area or new techniques. Who really cares, anyway, when it gets right down to it, a nice fish caught when guided is still a nice fish. |
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Posts: 1270
| If the fish is caught trolling I think the argument might be able to be made, although I still don't agree, but if the fish was caught casting I don't see any merit to the argument.
Can you "count" the fish that you caught because you heard someone say that the fish on lake X were snapping? You went there because of other's advice so you really didn't do all the work according to you. What about using a lure that you read about on the internet or were suggested by a salesman? Again you used other people's advice so you didn't do all the work.
Personally it kind of sounds like someone has a bone to pick especially by the "costly boat" comment. |
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Posts: 27
Location: Montreal, QC | Magruter - 7/8/2008 3:54 PM
if counting fish means that much to you, you're doing this for the wrong reasons.... imho.
I think you understand it the wrong way: by counting, I don't mean the numbers, i mean something to be proud of, cause it take a lot of work, time, effort and patience... |
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Posts: 1530
| its who is on the rod reeling and fighting. makes sense to me. guides work hard for their clients. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I get a kick out of questions like this...Saumon...let's say you fish with a buddy, you are fishing in his boat, out of the back or front for that matter if he let's you fish up there and runs it from the back..you catch a nice fish, are you being "guided"...? you aren't paying him...but you weren't running the boat and maybe even fishing in front...to some extent we ALL our "guided" at times..unless we only fish solo and never fish out of someone else's boat...I have hired guides in the past and heck ya I'm proud of the fish I caught with them, I still had to make the right bait choice, the right cast, work the bait the right way, get the fish to hit and get it in the net...I now take quite a few guys out and let them fish in the front..and I hope that the fish they catch with me in the front while I'm playing "guide" they are proud of...good friend got a 51.5"er last August in the first 2 hours into our trip in the front of my boat while I ran it from the back...do you think he's proud...heck ya.
go fish.
Edited by MSKY HNR 7/8/2008 3:11 PM
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Posts: 27
Location: Montreal, QC | reelman - 7/8/2008 4:03 PM
Personally it kind of sounds like someone has a bone to pick especially by the "costly boat" comment.
Not at all. I have tremendous respect for the guides themselves. They do a very hard work: rain or shine, sometimes with peoples you don't really have fun with, chasing an elusive fish...The only question i'm asking is: for you, does a fish caught with a guide has the same value than one you caught by yourself? |
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Posts: 27
Location: Montreal, QC | MSKY HNR - 7/8/2008 4:09 PM
I get a kick out of questions like this...Saumon...let's say you fish with a buddy, you are fishing in his boat, out of the back or front for that matter if he let's you fish up there and runs it from the back..you catch a nice fish, are you being "guided"...? you aren't paying him...but you weren't running the boat and maybe even fishing in front...to some extent we ALL our "guided" at times..unless we only fish solo and never fish out of someone else's boat...
That's exactly why i'm asking this. When i sometime fish in friends boat and happen to catch something, i say "he put me on this fish". But the most memorable ones, although not necessarily the bigger ones, were thoses caught when fishing alone, wich happen half of the time. |
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Posts: 82
Location: deep in the slop | i have to agree with brad. furthermore i would say it is a pretty safe bet that 99.9% of us are "guided" from the beginning. what i mean by this is very few if any people just go pick up a musky rod and learn it all for themselves. many of us get into the sport from word of mouth, whether it be a family member or a good friend. these people who get us into muskies are also the ones laying the footprint of our techniques. when we first get into it, we go back to those spots that were shown because it is most of what we know. they are the ones showing us lures, depths, desired structure and so on. i guess that what i am getting at is, if you fall into this catagory, are not all the fish essentially "guided." there are a couple of guides that i fish with in vilas county. i am not their client but their friend. last year i gave one a tip of action i was having on a specific spot every night. he drove the boat that night and i got a upper 30 lber at the end of the feeding window. one of the most special moments in my life.
so i guess after my rant is all said and done. they are equally as valuable. whether it was a fish i was "guided" to or caught on my own, i get the same rush either way. |
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Posts: 20
| I've never hired a guide but I would assume that if I am paying to catch fish I would enjoy learning new stuff, and count every fish I catch and be proud of it.
Edited by bjb360 7/8/2008 3:49 PM
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| Count for what?!?
"i mean something to be proud of, cause it take a lot of work, time, effort and patience..."
That sounds like a pretty subjective standard, and only one that you can set individually. So "count" it however you want, eh? |
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Posts: 8834
| What if you fish a lake that you once fished with a guide? Does that make any fish you caught "count less" because they came from a spot or on a presentation that guide told you about? Does it "count less" catching a fish on a cowgirl because you heard about them from someone else than it would if you just stumbled on one in a tackle store and thought "wow, that looks like a cool lure..." Does it count less catching a muskie on a lake you heard about from someone else vs a lake you decided to try in case there might be muskies in it?
What about when you're fishing with a guide and you pick the lure? Or you say "hey, do you think that bar over by the point is worth anything now" and he decides to fish it?
Does a fish caught from the front of the boat count less than the back because you had first water?
What about how hard the lure is to work, or how accurate your cast was? I hooked a fish on a backlash once, did that count? I mean technically the lure was just sitting there, and the fish ate it anyway...
Or is it being able to run the boat and read the locator that makes the fish count?
If thats the case, than the guy running the boat caught the fish, even if he wasn't fishing?
Man, I am sooo confused now! Between the internet, magazines, guides, friends, bait/lake/area recommendations I'm not sure any of my fish really "counted". I almost feel guilty now for having so much fun catching those fish. Wait, did I even really catch them, or just sort of? |
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| Do guided fish count? Mine counted. If you don't think so don't go out with a guide or if you do don't count the fish. I think this topic has been done before. |
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Posts: 667
Location: Roscoe IL | If guided fish don't count then I aint payin! LOL!
Some of my best times on the water were with guides & we didn't catch squat. Sennett! .. No, I did get one last trip... Tanner! No, him to...
Chad! Some guy's just don't know jack!
It's all on how your looking at it bro. If it don't feel good then don't do it I guess... |
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | Of course they do........you are still doing the casting, hooking, and landing.
RM |
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| Casting: Yes, because the person who caught it actually had something to do with that fish hitting the bait.
Trolling: NO, NO, NO, trolling fish out of a guides boat, or even a buddies boat don't really count because all that person did was sit there until the rod when off then started reeling. |
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Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI | Trolling, absolutely not. Like the father and son I guided from Montana last year who both released nice muskies with me. I told them that they were nice fish, I was happy for them, but they needed to go cast to get their "first countable" muskies.
Even though I taught them how to sharpen hooks, line lengths for the depths we needed to run, how to recognize when a lure was fouled, etc., well enough to the point they were setting the lines, their fish still didn't count. Oh well, next time they'll hire another guide I guess.
Rowtrolling is still trolling so all of my clients over the last 15 years actually went home empty handed. Hire a casting guide.
Jeez.
JS |
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | Fishless days with a guide don't count either then. You must forget anything you learned. |
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Posts: 431
| I view every outing with multiple people on the boat as a team effort. If my dad catches the only fish of the day, we succeeded. I have also been "guiding" my dad since I was 15 or so, so I would hate to have to tell him that he hasn't caught a fish in 10 years.
On the other hand, I have never fished with a musky guide. However, I do think I would value a fish that I caught on my own more than a fish caught at the direction of a guide. This is a sport of figuring out variables and making adjustments, and I think that when I do that on the water it is more valuable to me. This might be the direction the original poster was heading in. |
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Magruter - 7/8/2008 2:54 PM
if counting fish means that much to you, you're doing this for the wrong reasons.... imho.
AGREED |
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Posts: 159
Location: NYC (and many weeks in MN during summer) | World record fish don't take into consideration the captain or guide, only the person "handling" the rod.
Of course a guided fish "counts", or in other words, should be a source of accomplishment. I think that most Muskie guys who hire guides, including accomplished sticks like stange etc, know much more than ordinary fisherman. Most of the guys hire guides for new, large bodies of water.
When I hire a guide, I do my homework on the body of water, first. I understand the forage and water clarity before I go so I set up a game plan before going out. I live in NY, but I own a map of just about every fishable body of water, plus the lakemaster chip for Minnesota waters. I know where and how I want to fish beforehand. A guide can pinpoint specific "now" spots based on the current water conditions.
Trolling is a different story altogether. Alone or guided, I don't put much stock in those catches anyway. Its not something I care to do much and can count the number of fish caught trolling in the last 35 years, on my left hand (excluding of course saltwater fishing).
Randy |
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Posts: 27
Location: Montreal, QC | momuskies - 7/8/2008 7:46 PM
However, I do think I would value a fish that I caught on my own more than a fish caught at the direction of a guide. This is a sport of figuring out variables and making adjustments, and I think that when I do that on the water it is more valuable to me. This might be the direction the original poster was heading in.
Right on.
And I never say that you don't learn with a guide. I was talking of fishes caught by yourself vs thoses caught when hiring a guide. |
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| A day on the water has different meaning to everyone. However, I personally feel more satisfied and a sense of accomplishment after catching a fish I feel like I earned and figured out on my own. To some, fishing is catching. To me, catching is the final piece of a puzzle called fishing, that is soooo much larger that the act of actually catching the fish. To many guiding is part of a larger journey in pursuit of learning as much about the sport as possible. To each his own. If they count for you, then they count. |
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Posts: 561
Location: Monee, Illinois | Yes |
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Posts: 170
| I caught my biggest fish to date, while alone in the boat. Was it rewarding, absolutely...if I would have caught it with a guide, yep, it still would have been. Learning water and certain nuances to a body of water is what is so cool about being with a good guide. If you're with a guide and you have a fish located, from there on, it's up to you and only you. Getting her to eat on a on 8 is up to you and rewarding and if there's someone else in the boat, no matter who, it doesn't matter.
So yes, I'd say they "count"...whatever that means???
Edited by JimLang 7/8/2008 8:37 PM
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Posts: 2024
| I wouldn't be too concerned about what other people consider "legit" catches. If YOU feel good about the catch that's all that matters. |
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Posts: 4266
| I've taken friends to lakes that they never fished before and under my guidance and with me positioning the boat, they caught fish. Do those count?
Beaver |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Sorno said it..... What Wisdom he has.
Jerome |
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Posts: 2361
| LOL, you guys should all recognize bait by now. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzz... |
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