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| How many teams will be there?
What is the pay out?
Can you still get in? |
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| Try this:
www.wmtseries.com |
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| Landy and I are in. I believe there are plenty of openings yet. Now, if I can just get Jason to send a map detailing his best 20 spots, which lures, colors, depth, speeds, line, rods, reels, .......hehehe. You gonna fish it, Bill? If so, good luck.
Tight Lines,
Shep[:sun:] |
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| Well???????? |
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| Thank you![:)] |
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| Tom,
It might be too late for this event but... would you ever consider getting volunteers to be on-the-water judges (like the PMTT does) instead of the current transport, carry-up, measure and release method? I'm not speaking for any group here but I believe that there may be a number of organizations willing to search their membership for volunteers.
Just Curious,
Craig Eversoll |
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| Craig I am with you on that. Dont like the fact that I am done when I catch a fish. I like fishing as a team like the pmtt. I was going to fish this,going to oconomoc lake for MF1st outting instead. Good luck to all who fish the WMT and be nice to our resource. |
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| just wondering why they are having trouble filling these tournaments. I am thinking of fishing one or two yet. Would fish more but the p.m.t.t conflicts with some. What is it thats keeping the anglers away. I think for the number of boats allowed the payout is very good. I hope it grows more and plan on fishing more next year. Have a great tournament guys.
Don Pfeiffer |
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| Whats keeps our team away? The transport. We were going to do the one in Madison last weekend but once we saw that it was a transport, we changed our plans. |
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| I two would like to see a better way to regester a fish. |
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| What kept our team away was a catch 22 problem. They only had 22 boats the week before the event which meant we would have shelled out $260 for a shot at a pretty small pot of cash. They can't get the cash without the boats and the boats won't register without the cash. This is probably true of every new tournament.
I hope they find enough people willing to be judge boats out on the water in the future. I'm not a zealot about transport but I did witness a relase that is forming an opinion fo rme. One of their fish was released at the judge position in the channel after being trasported a fairly good distance. The water temp was much cooler at the release point then the location the fish was captured. The fish didn't swim away strong, rather coasted to shore and when we left 20+ min later was still sitting (gills moving) in approximately 1ft of water.
When we were headed out of the channel after this experience we saw a different boat with a giant rubermaid container on the floor which I presume was to be their livewell?? |
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| Just to be clear on my message... I'm not one of these "holyier than thou" types who claim that you have to use this net or that cradle or you can't hold 'em this way or that OR ELSE THEY WILL DIE! Just hooking a fish is potentially lethal and I'm sure that some of the fish that I've caught have died. Believe it or not fish do die and sometimes it's because we stuck 'em. But I just don't understand why we have to have rules that encourage excessive handling of the fish when we apparently don't have to (look at the PMTT's rules).
I've heard (no first hand experience here) several stories about the Rhinelander WMT event last year and now one here on this thread about poor handling of the fish and I don't understand why it has to be that way.
So, my question still stands... Will the WMT ever consider using on the water judges?
This is not an attack on the WMT. It would not serve their purpose to intentionally do harm to the resource that they rely upon. I just believe that there are proven, viable options that they aren't considering.
Craig Eversoll |
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| Its my guess that the thousands of folks that look at message boards have spread the word. Muskie anglers prefer to have judges or boatside witnesses and that is the reason the turnout is so low in the WMT. |
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| Jeff Hanson, a local guide and a friend of mine, just called me to say that he found a dead 34.5 inch muskie up against the docks at Olin Park on Lake Monona. Given that there was a 34.5 incher caught at the recent WMT and that Olin was one of the sites of the "judging" he drew some very specific conclusions.
There are many, many fish of that size in that body of water with quite a few anglers chasing them and certainly the fish that Jeff found may have nothing to do with the WMT. But I doubt that Jeff would have reached the same conclusions had the rules of the recent tournament encouraged less handling.
Craig Eversoll |
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| Tell Jeff to keep his eyes out along the shore and under the docks around the Muskel-Lounge for a 36.5"
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| Thanks tom for the congrats. I am glad to hear the news you mentioned. As I told you I am going to try and fish one yet this year and hope I'll get next year if your plan works as you hope. Good luck
Don Pfeiffer |
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| How would you feel if i put you in my live well and drove 60mph in 3 foot waves then thru you back in the lake after that???You probably wouldnt like it would you?I fished the PMTT trail last year and fished it because of the no transport rule,I feel the fishes health is number one in my boat.I dont want this to sound sarcastic but hey thats why im holding off to fish the WMT till it gets change.I was told by DNR that soon all tournys big or small must change to a no transport rule.Just my 10 cents. |
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| My question still stands... would the WMT ever consider using on the water judges?
Just a note... there were over 16,000 fatalities in alcohol-related crashes in 2000. Does that make it a good idea?
Craig Eversoll |
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| Tom,
I'll be sure to pass that info along to Jeff. However, the point wasn't that the dead fish was killed by the WMT, the point was that he (Jeff) formed that opinion based on his belief that a transport tournament, or excessive handling of any kind, can be detrimental to the resource and that the WMT's rules and regulations encourage excessive handling.
So, do the judge boats carry video cameras?
After this new (to me that is) info I'll rephrase the question... would the WMT ever consider using on the water judging techniques exclusively?
Craig Eversoll |
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| Tom:
What about the 36.5" that was captured near the power plant in warm water, transported to the channel and released in cold water where it didn't look very good siting in 8-12" of water last time I saw it?
Perhaps its not fair to cite specific fish but when will there be enough evidence to encourage you to at least solicit volunteers for judge boats and find out if you can get the support you need? |
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| Hello... testing 1, 2, 3, 4... check, check... is this thing on? |
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| Tom,
I just want to understand your position on this as the organizer of the WMT. If I understood your last post, your position is that a transport tournament is better for the resource than an immediate release tournament because the fish get to revive in an "oxygen rich" tank rather than the "oxygen poor" lake? Is that correct?
I'm also still interested in finding out if you would consider using on the water judges but perhaps the answer to the previous question would go a long ways towards answering this one as well.
Johnie B.'s point about paying the judges is a good one too. Volunteer judges may be somewhat positive thinking on my part. But if you have a pretty full field at $260 per I would think that paying judges wouldn't be an issue... at least it isn't with the PMTT.
Craig Eversoll |
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| Craig,
I have the same concerns you do and would really like to hear the reasoning for not having "on the water" judges exclusively. I would love to fish at least one of these events per year and haven't in the past and won't in the future until I hear good sound reasoning for transporting these fish. I think I have a hunch why the #'s participating in these are lower than desired, what do you think??? |
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| It's hard to read emotions into messages and e-mail which is why it can be a bad idea to have these discussions this way. I am in no way, shape or form trying to start a grudge match here - not that anyone is saying that I am. It's just that many folks have asked many questions and have not been able to figure out what the position of the WMT is on the transport issue. Maybe we're getting to the bottom of it with the oxygen thing here - I don't know.
If you've paid any attention to Tom's responses to these sort of things over the past year you know that he's a level-headed, intelligent individual. Like I said before, I have no doubt that he would not intentionally harm the resource that the tournament can not live without. I just personally believe that there are options that are currently in use in other tournaments that aren't being considered.
Lastly, please remember that regardless of how strongly anyone may feel about the transport issue you need to remember that Tom, and all the good folks that fish the WMT, are one of us. They are not the enemy. You may not agree with a position that they take but that does not make them on the same level with PETA. Treat them with the same respect that you'd like to treated with when you voice your opinion.
I thought I should say these things since I'm shooting my mouth off about everything else!
Craig Eversoll |
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| Thinker... or may I call you Wishful?
There may not be any science that says that transporting a fish is detrimental to it and maybe it even isn't the transport that I am concerned about here. It's more like the combination of all the handling of the fish. Out of the lake, into the livewell, out of the livewell, up the dock and into the tank, out of the tank, pictures, video, back down the dock and into the lake. How on earth can that possibly better than into the net, call the judge boat and back into the lake?
A couple of random thoughts come to mind after typing that paragraph; I've seen some pretty interesting "livewells". Have you ever tried to get a fish out of a livewell when it was ready to rock and roll? Have you ever dropped a fish? I have. Now try picking it up and putting it down at least 3 times each.
In regards to my "can't we all get along" speech, it doesn't mean we shouldn't try to understand and if necessary change things. I just believe we should do it in a way that improves out odds of standing together rather than falling apart. That is easier said than done and you'll always find those that would rather fight than switch even when the facts are overwhelmingly against them (that statement is not aimed at Tom or I as the "facts" just aren't there).
I'm trying to keep an open mind here, not trying to force my opinion on others, but I can't seem to find the answers I'm seeking. Again, maybe the oxygen comment is the beginning of the answer but I'm waiting for confirmation of that. Right now I don't believe the science exists to prove or disprove either side of the discussion. In that void I'm left to form my opinion based on what I believe is common sense.
Craig Eversoll |
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| Tom
I for one want to thank you for addressing this issue as politely and thoughtfully as you have. Your reasoning seems sound and a lot of the questions I had have been cleared up. Thank you. |
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| Tom,
Sorry to put you on the spot and to get grilled!
The post was not for that, I was just wondering about the tournement itself out on Pewaukee. |
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| Two ideas?
1)Roaming judge boats with large orange flags to shorten the travel time of transport and help on windy days.
2)Offer the contestants the use of cell phones to call in the release and get a boatside measurement.
A. This will make more folks willing to join your tournament, including myself.
B. This will allow the contestants to get more then two muskies in the boat in one day. If you leave the fish in the net and dont put it in your livewell, its not considered in your bag limit.
"Exsample to B". You catch a 38", then one hour later in the morning you get a 34". The way it is now, the tourney is all done for the contestants and you have to live with that score or pitch the 34" back and try to do better. That is something most tournament anglers are not willing to do. The contestants of the WMT that won the tourney were done at 10am and had to wait it out all day to see if there measurements would make it. Having a chance to get a "Third" kicker is what makes the breaks the tourney and makes it more fun for the contestants.
I dont have a problem with tourneys, infact I enjoy them. But in all things, there is room for improvement.
I dont think marine radios are the best approach, for many PMTT events are being won by folks listening to channel 10 and going to the hot area and catching fish. Cell phones would help a lot to prevent other contestants of cutting in on the action, when they have not done there homework. I have been a judge boat in a PMTT event and I saw 33 boats leave there morning patterns on one section of the lake and run to the area where judge boats were being called.
Cell phones with roaming unmarked judge boats would be the the best way to solve that problem. Then a few roaming marked judge boats to handle boatside transporting.
Make some inprovements to assist the contestants and the muskies involved and I would be happy to fish a couple of your events, because they are on some good waters. |
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| I too would like to thank Tom for his polite response. Based on his previous postings I would expect nothing less.
Now that I clearly understand it, I respectfully disagree with the position of the WMT regarding the increased handling of the fish. I also admit that the "facts" just aren't there to prove or disprove either side of this discussion. Remember that until recently our "experience" told us that gut hooking a fish did not cause any harm to the fish.
I haven't fished very tournaments as of late but I can tell you that my experiences with the transport type (and yes I've fished them before) wasn't as positive as what Tom has portrayed. Again, I believe that it's the excessive handling that leads to problems more than the transport itself. Either way we're once again talking "experience" here and the actual data is somewhat lacking. Maybe if we tagged fished caught in tournaments that would actually lead to some conclusions based on facts. I honestly don't know the solution to the data issue.
I agree with Tom in regards to not politicizing our sport - I know that I am certainly not trying to do so. But I would also so say that healthy discussions do need to take place in order for our sport to progress.
Best of luck to you Tom, the WMT and the fine folks who fish it and I sincerely hope your assumptions are as accurate as I know you believe them to be.
Craig Eversoll
Bill - I don't see that anyone is getting grilled. I think this was a pretty clear cut discussion about something that everyone here cares about - muskies and the management of them. |
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