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| This weekend my 10 year old son and I where going to fish the Pewaukee Musky Classic
(Milwaukee Chapter MI fund raiser tournament) when he came home from school with a note from his teacher saying that he lied about having his math homework done when he didn't.
My wife said that she did not want him to fish this weekend with me.
What do I do, ground him next week and let him fish or fish solo and teach him a lesson?[:((] [:((] |
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| Bill as a father of 4 ages 19,18,12and 8. I will tell you that life lessons, as crazy as it sounds sometimes win out over fishing. Better to raise a good MAN than a good fisherman. He has to learn a lesson, and sometimes its hard to be the DAD.
Larry [:blackeye:] |
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| If he is anything like my 10 year old....and I show him pictures of what he missed.....He will not lie about homework again. |
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| Is this his first offence?
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| been the proverbial bast##d many times with a 20 and 12 yr old... the right choices are often not easy or popular, but they're still the right ones- sorry kid, you're grounded!
steve
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| Fish solo...a lesson learned the hard way is a lesson LEARNED....he will in time understand.... |
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| I raised 5 boys, and can tell you that if one can get through to one's son, and let him know what he did wrong and WHY EXACTLY it was wrong, the lesson will already have been learned. The fact he was caught, and humiliated, is probably enough. Plus, he knows Dad is mad at him, and I'm sure from seeing you two together, that mortifies him.
Guess I will break from the group and advise to take him fishing, and while out there, make him listen one more time to the "don't do that again, trust is everything" speech while there.
One only has a finite number of days to spend on the water with one's son. I lost a boy when he was ten, and would take back every single day I punished him and replace the punishment with a day together, talking it out; if only I could. |
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| Fish solo, and you'll never have that problem again.
Even my 6 year old votes for "No fishing trips when you lie to your teachers."
Beav
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| A teacher will soon be giving some advice.
As a teacher, I do feel that his homework should be done, but when, and are there any other conseqences that would fit the crime? Perhaps he can spend the 1st part of the day doing "extra" homework.
Your son should learn that you feel that school is important, and he has responsibilities there, things that could be discussed during a father/son bonding outing, and serve his punishment for lying in another way.[;)] [:bigsmile:]
just my 2 cents from a teacher who likes to fish.
connie |
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| Hey bill, the age and reasons behind the event all play into it. He may not understand the work and felt this to be the easiest way out. I lost my father unexpectedly some time ago, and miss those days on the water. I think nature is a great class room and time to speak. Kids are kids, and the weekend is aways away. I am sure there are somethings he would like to do between now and then. If you keep him home, it ruins your day and maybe what the wife had planned. No child needs that guilt...not a parents, just sharing some thoughts...Ben Remer |
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| Bill, it sounds to me like you now have two dilemma's. First and foremost, you and your wife have got to agree on a punishment. If she won't bend, don't fight it. Also, whatever the two of you decide, be sure that your son knows that it is both of your decisions and explain to him why you are doing this. After 32 years of marriage and two twenty-something boys, this has worked for us. Good luck! |
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| Let your wife not take him to something she had planned to do together, if that's the sort of punishment she wants for the offence. Take yer kid fishing; every moment of quality time you spend with him will help him be a better person. |
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| Just let the kid fish! Every kid when there younger makes a mistake or 2 and will learn with the humiliation that comes with it. You know how bad they feel when "Dad" gets mad at them for what they've done. They feel they've let "Dad" down and won't let it happen again.
Take every oppurtunity to fish with your boy as much as possible because someday you'll miss those days!
Brett Carroll |
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| As a 21 year old which makes me not too far off this subject, just let the kid fish. Make him do some homework and make sure it's all done before he can go fishing. I used to get away with this stuff all the time, if it's his first offense then make him do all his homework, make him think he isn't going fishing, but then take him. The fear of not being able to go is much worse, and when you take him he will appreciate it even more. If you don't take him he might regret it.
As for Esox69 (steve) man I am glad we are friends and you aren't my pops...LOL (although you did straighten my a$$ out on one thing), and thanks for that.
-Phil Cali |
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| Just to add to Phil's case and possibly help yours, I'm 19, so it wasn't long ago I was getting in trouble for the same thing!
Let him fish, he could win the tourney for you!
Brett Carroll |
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| I agree w/ Mr Sworrall - life is so uncertain, don't miss this opportunity. The stern lecture in the boat will do more to shape his future conduct than a week of sitting home. However there has to be a penalty. Take away something he enjoy's or give him additional chores or even additional home work. If he's having problems in math, he needs the extra effort to help him through it.
Al Warner
www.icantplayfindmyfoot.com |
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| Bill,
I agree with Worrall and Connie, take him fishing, he'll know he's there under "tainted" circumstances anyway.
There is other ways to discipline him that is fair but I think you can do more good with a 10 minute chat in the boat.
Make his punishment firm and fair but take the time to spend with him, never know what next week could bring...?
Good luck,
Mark |
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| If wife and you can work it out,let him fish.Maybe get the teacher view too.Extra home work,lack of TV,games,and work around house ( outside of usual stuff) could be answer.Life is short but learn accountablitiy is VERY important.I'am not a parent but I do know that time spent together means a ton to both sides.Blummer |
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| I have a solution. Torture him.[;)]
Take him along, but make him do his homework while YOU fish.
Don't let him bring any gear and make him convert all of the fish measurements from inches to centimeters.
Make him read a book aloud to you. The possibilities are endless [:devil:]
Beaver |
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| As a math teacher myself, there are a few things that bother me about this situation.[:(]
First: to all of you who think ADDING homework is a good thing....STUPID IDEA!! Reason being, is that you don't want to turn off a student from school by using more homework as a punishment.
Second: One of the biggest things that bothers/undermines teachers is the lack of follow through from parents when their son/daughter screws up. I am not saying you are not following up with a consequence, because you are considering options. The choice is up to you.
Third: The repercussions should fit the offense. Lying to anyone is HUGE in my book. It is of the utmost disrespect, not only to the teacher, but also to the parent.
My suggestion: Find out what steps were (if any...it happens) taken at school for lying to the teacher. Add to that action by whatever means you and your wife feel serves the crime. In my honest opinion, if he enjoys fishing as much as we all hope, the CONSEQUENCE of NOT fishing the tourney fits well. Let him know that NOT fishing the tournament is the consequence but that you still love him....it's just that by his lying, your hands are tied. You were put into a position which you really had no choice. There will always be more tournaments, and fishing time together...it's up to you to capitalize/create those opportunities and make the opportunites happen. As for the incomplete homework: if he gets no credit for it, make him do the assignment. Don't let him off the hook. It only puts him behind..and math is definitely a subject that if you get behind, it will be felt for weeks.
THEN: MAKE SURE HE BRINGS HIS HOMEWORK HOME EVERY NIGHT...EVEN IF HE SAYS HE IS DONE. If he doesn't bring it home, run is A$$ back up there and get it. BE CONSISTENT WITH THIS AS WELL!! MAKE SURE IT IS DONE and make sure it is done with work shown neatly. Make sure he does it in a public room in the house where you are at, but with no distractions like TV that can slow him down.
The lesson that needs to be taught is to DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. Messy: Do it over. done in pen: do it over. Lots of mistakes: Do it over. Any mistake: Find the correct answer. Not done on time, lose a privelige of some sort and do the assignment anyway. The teacher can only do so much..you need to be strong at home by setting consequences for their action!!
Just sitting him down for a talk does not work. In most cases when I have seen this occur, the kid just rolls his eyes and thinks: "o.k..here we go again.." The talk goes in one ear and out the other. A TALK IS NOT A CONSEQUENCE. Its a way of not disciplining your kids. They see no gain from the talk. What they see is no consequence for the crime....and by only being "talked to" they can probably get away with it again...and they will try again as well.
Please notice that I try NOT to use the word punishment...it is designed that way. A punishment is somehting you do to a person that is highly negative, a consequence is something that still lets you hold him/her accountible for the action. There is a big difference in the way you handle the situation. A consequence lets him know that the action is not acceptible, but that you are not mad at HIM...only his action.
Tough love sets the boundary. you break or even bend on that boundary, you will have alot of work ahead of you...especially when he gets to Jr. High. Be tough, be strong, but also loving by being honest about wehre you stand. Make sure he knows you are mad at his BEHAVIOR...not at him. He may get mad at you alot at times for disciplining him, but by the time he is 24 or so, he will begin to realize and appreciate you being a father to him.
Steve Vaerst
Mathematics teacher
St. Paul, MN. |
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| You want to play you got to pay,tuff luv! Solo time lesson set in stone!Just ask Handyboy! Jeff |
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| Bill,
I have first hand experience on this one!!!
This is a tough one. I have an 11 year old son that just hates school, and what makes it even tougher is that they don't live with me anymore. He was a very good soccer player, best on his team. Two years ago he was doing very bad in school and had to go to summer school or fail for that year. We decided to keep him out of soccer for that summer to try and teach him a lesson, we tried to take away the thing that matters "MOST" to him, thinking that would wake him up!!!
Well I have to tell you, that didn't work, he is still doing bad in school, and to make matters worse, he doesn't play soccer anymore. I tried punishing him by telling him that he will not step foot in my boat till he does better in school (he didn't go fishing all of last year), the little sh!t head is still failing this year. Let me tell you, HE LOVES TO FISH WITH DAD!!!!
I think like Steve has mentioned, "LIFE IS TOO SHORT", take him with you and make him sit in the boat and not fish till he can't take it anymore!!! Keep on him the whole morning, tell him over and over how disappointed you are in him and that he had better not do this again!!! Take a break and sit him down in the boat and have a good heart to heart with him, give him a "BIG HUG", maybe even a good cry (like I'm doing right now, man I miss my boy!) and tell him how much you "LOVE HIM"!!!
Then tell him let's go kick some but and win this tournament!!!!!!!!
Good luck with the boy and in the tourny!!!!!!!![:bigsmile:] |
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| All the guilt you guy's are putting on me!!!
He knows he did wrong, but I still feel he should NOT fish this weekend to learn a lesson.
As tough as it is on me and the wife, he needs to know that his school come's first.
Thank's for all the advice but there will be other tournaments. |
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| Does this mean I can fish with you this weekend?? |
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| steve v. you hit the nail on the head. My son was slipping a bit and what you said is what we did. With the exception of him and I slipping out tuesday night for a few hours. My views go both ways. Tuesday night is a day where mikey raised his first nice musky(aprox 40)and turned to me and said "dad my knees wont stop shaking". This was a father/son moment that I will remember for ever. On the other hand the way the teacher views this problem is the correct way(my wifes way). We would march right back to school if there was even the slightest chance that he was stretching the truth. Both of my kids teachers know exactly what we expect from our kids and dont mind if we call and check up on them. I thank god that we have caring teachers that will go the extra mile to keep our children focused. Good luck bill,I would take him and give the time you spend together getting that trust father/son relationship to the point where he would never let something like that happen again. Trust between parents and children is the most important thing as these kids get older and exposed to some of lifes challenges. Build that trust,take him fishing. Unless it was something that has been happening for a while and serious reprocussions are in order. [:blackeye:] |
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| Bill, if it is any help to you in feeling less guilty. I will tell you a small tale from when I was a youngster. Now we are going back a ways to my grade school days 10 or 11 years old I guess. School lunch cost $.95 a week back then. My mom would give me a buck as lunch money for the week. She asked me where the extra nickle was. Well you know that I bought a candy bar with it, payday I suppose. Told her I lost the nickle. Small town you know, guy at the store sold me out. Only spanking on the bare behind I ever got, from dad no less. Not for swiping the nickle but for lying about it. Guess what? I remember that lesson to this day, 40 years later. I don't lie any more. Hope this helps, Mike[:((] |
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| My Dad's method worked well with me as far as making me into a good person but I never did get good grades in school. I'm holding about a 3.4 in college now so it all worked out in the end. What my father did to save my education was introduced me to books that I liked to read. I bet I read 150 books through high school. No text books though. If you just cannot get a kid interested in school that may help.
That dosen't sound like the case here though. All of my Psyc professors would say fish solo.
I would say that each parent knows their own children better than any one else. Therefore you know better than anyone what the punishment should be.
I read in a Psyc book once that if the child is honestly sorry for what they did you should ask them what their punishment should be. They usually choose a harsher punishment for themselves than you would give them. Has any one tried that before?
Brian
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| oh let that little man go fishing (cough) more lines in the water! take something else away. never know when large marge
comes rollin' through!!![:praise:] |
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| BILL...DO NOT FEEL GUILTY!!! I myself learned that lesson...my Dad left me at home on opening day of trout season many years ago for a screw up I did...I never forgot it!!!! There was no guilt on my part nor on his...That evening we talked + from the experience I realized that I needed to do the right things in life or pay the piper...as time went on I screwed up at times...many times but always knew the results were from bad choices I'd made + that I was loved regardless. My own son will be 6 in 2 weeks + is already playing the wife + I like a ping pong match but we are determined to stick together + show him that we expect him to follow the rules...VMS gave very sound advice; wish we had more like him in our schools here![::)] |
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| MuskyFever,
The issue you mention is one that concerns me. If he has not improved in school, even after going through some revoked privileges, there might be more to the situation. He may have a tough time in school...it happens (more often than we would like to see nowdays) In all honesty, I would check into some things a little more. At age 11, he can still be molded and formed fairly easily without major confrontation, and if given the right assistance, can do really well...but you have to be strong and supportive.
couple of things I would consider: First, check out how he does with reading (grades, performance, listening to him read, and the like) With the the way reading is being taught in school these days, it would not surprise me if he struggles with it. I would be willing to wager that he learned to read in a way that was way different from how we learned years ago. The idea of Phonics (like the commercial and the way we learned) went out the door as being too repetetive and "boring" to the kids, so they went to what is called whole language (I believe). I don't know all the details about how it is taught, but it definitely is NOT doing kids justice. They come into Jr. High/middle school lacking in reading and comprehension ability.
The lack of reading ability is a point that will lead to struggles in all other subjects. It would be worth checking into because YOU are the only advocate for your child....you push until he gets what he needs. Granted, I do not know your son, but your description leads me to believe there is more than just not performing in school.
There are plenty of ways to support him as you go. Depending on how well off you are financially, you can take him to a separate learning center where they work with the kids in areas they are lacking. It's amazing how just a little extra "boost" makes BIG improvements in school. They test the kids to see where improvements need to be made and then create a program just for them that emphasizes on those areas.
The idea of getting him into reading things he likes is GREAT!! It motivates him to read and learn.
It's amazing how the basics/fundamentals help in learning...without them, students struggle and hate being in school because nothing comes to them easilly.
Steve.
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