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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | I am just getting back into with a magnum 265 gallon tank. I got this tank with a stand, light and nice glass top for a deal. Now I am looking for advice. How many of you have fish tanks and what is your set up like. Pictures would be cool to see.
First off:How hard is it to get muskies, northern, walleyes, perch, etc for the tank?
Second:Whers is the best place to get fish?
I know Hoffers in Milwaukee has a permit to sell these fish but I have to wait till April or May. I need to get some perch, walleyes, gills, etc to get them growing before I get the muskies. I know with a huge tank like 265 the fish will grow extremely fast.
Can anyone help me with advice as to what I can and can't do as far as fish. I know permits are needed for the game fish if not purchased at a permitted store.
Just looking to get some fish going in my new magnum tank.
How many of you have fish tanks and what is your set up like. Pic's? |
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Posts: 7035
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Mike,
Hope the shoulder is getting better, did a quick search for you:
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=12...
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=27...
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=28...
I've raised muskies from a fingerling to about 22" and here's my suggestions:
-go overkill on filtration. more filtration = less muss and fuss with cleaning.
-no bass, especially smallies. they're killers.
-goldfish, not minnows as food. the minnows spread disease, the goldfish less so.
Good luck with it, see you at Milwaukee. |
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Posts: 2024
| Mike,
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=39...
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=29...
And search YouTube for tank setup ideas. Try "muskie eats goldfish" to see our VERY basic setup, but there's another one with a tiger that is a really nice setup complete with wood cover.
http://www.minnesotamuskiefarm.com/ sells perch, walleye, and other species in addition to muskies. Go to their "aquariums" page. I would consult an aquarist for species compatability (i.e. ability to coexist in same environment) if you plan on putting more than one species in a tank.
Hope this helps! They are a blast to raise. In fact, I will be driving to Bolingbrook, IL today to drop off our muskie that we've donated to the Bass Pro Shops there.
Good, SLAMR's links are different. |
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| Mike
I Had tank in my last house, had walleyes, crappies, muskies, and smallies. Smallies were definetly the aggressive one in the tanks. I know here in MN you did not need a permit to buy these fish. I would check with kaleps or a fish farm to see if the have any in there ponds. last years fish should be about 12". I would check online and see, someone in the milwaukee areas should have them. I know at times I would have to wait a while to get fish into the local store.
Good luck
Troyz |
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Posts: 89
| I've wanted to do this for a while now so this is great info, but have one question: should you cover the tank to keep them from jumping out? |
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Posts: 32876
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Absolutely cover the tank.
I'm lucky enough to have a source on my property for some of the fish I like to keep in a tank; a creek runs through and a small pond gets cut off if the water drops. I keep 'em until they get too big, or die of old age. This guy was tiny when I put him in, the crappie was almost too small to eat pinhead minnows. I had a couple perch, but they got up to 13" over a few years, seemed to just get old and die.
It used to be a legal fish could be put into a tank; now we cannot transport any live fish, so things are more difficult.
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Posts: 2024
| scott24 - 2/2/2008 9:30 AM
I've wanted to do this for a while now so this is great info, but have one question: should you cover the tank to keep them from jumping out?
YES! Cover EVERY opening. They will (and do) find ways to get through the smallest possible openings.
We were holding pike in a large tank where I work in the summer. The top of the tank had wire mesh covering it, held in place with 4-5 bricks (big cylindrical tank you sometimes see at State fairs) with a couple holes for aeration tubing. We dumped about 5-6 individuals in it one day, came back the following morning and two were dead on the dock. The bricks shifted slightly and the overlap between pieces of mesh disappeared leaving a giant gap. We could only surmise the pike kept jumping up and hitting the mesh, dislodging the bricks, until finally they created a big enough hole to jump through (too bad they missed the water)! |
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Posts: 101
| Hey Mike,
You are right on with Hoffers, they are able to get them. I'm in the same boat with you, but have a slightly smaller tank. I'm looking to get some fry this spring to start out with. We have a bunch of tanks at home, and even bred some fish for awhile.
The one basic rule, for a successful tank is to "start" the tank. Get it setup how you want it with logs, gravel, GOOD filer system (go with a good canister filter, or two), and get your setup complete. Once you have everything you want, you want to get your tank cycled, and established. If you are going to use live plants, you need fish in the tank or snails. You need to create the eco-system.
I would get it all in order, start the tank, let it sit for 2 weeks, doing water changes, and making sure the chemical makup of the water is right, then add some small feeder fish, live plants, and try out some bluegills that you can catch through the ice. If that survives a month or so, and everything is stable, no diseases, then start stocking some larger fish.
You also don't want to over add fish. Adding too many fish, too quickly can cause stress in a tank. Stress is the start of disease.
There is a site called monsterfishkeepers.com that has a few members that have tigers. One girl on there is doing pretty good. She is also in the Milw. area. You might get some solid advise from her. I'm about an hour north of you, and my local fish store is run by a good friend of mine. He was able to get some musky early last spring, but hasn't seen them on his list since. As soon as they come up this spring I am getting mine.
Good luck! If you do have any questions, or anything in specific that you are wanting to know just send me a PM and I can help you out. But generally speaking, the way I described above is the safest, easiest way to start the tank of our dreams.
~Dawg |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Here is one picture of our babies from 2005. They alive and well in a small private lake. They are from the Minnesota Musky farm Leech lake spotteds. We have a 55 gallon and had no problem raising 6 baby muskies to 14 inches. Deffinatly use well water and lots of filtration. I fed bait fish minnows from the local bait shop and also small goldfish. Also there is a pinkish minnow at the Pet stores called rudy reds or something like that. The little skis are very cool to watch when they are feeding, Kingfisher
Edited by Kingfisher 2/2/2008 9:08 PM
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Here is another picture showing the baitfish. We had them for a whole year. I had to treat them once for some rashes that they got from minnows or goldfish. I dont really know which cause it. They make great drugs you can add to the tank to keep them healthy. Kingfisher
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Posts: 2024
| Beautiful specimens, Kingfisher! We parted ways with our muskie today and I already miss him!
Make sure you clean all food in a saline solution. Add deionized salt to a pot and swirl your goldfish/minnows/fatheads. As your muskie goes in (or any fish for that matter), buy a bottle of "Stress Coat" with aloe vera and mix according to the directions on the box. This will help replenish lost electrolytes and reduce slime coat loss.
Go nuts with it! I'd LOVE to have a 265 gal. around the house! |
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Posts: 561
Location: Monee, Illinois | Mike shoot me a PM I have 4 tanks in my house right now and am adding a 5th Tuesday going salt water with this one. I have been doing tanks for over 25 years now. I have had barred and spotted musky and tigers along with walleye and perch and smallies, rock bass, largemouth bass, gar, crappie, albino channel cats among other fresh water fish. Gold fish are good but i got my musky trained to eat freeze dried Krill which is a lot easier than A. Setting up a feeder tank or B. Making a trip to get fish. You can feed them minnows as long as they eat them all right away. Ask muskyhunter (John Betty) about the time he saw me feed my musky Large Shinners, he loved it...
Pgaschulz
PS Add your email address or shoot me an email and I will attach some pictures I have right now [email protected]
Edited by pgaschulz 2/2/2008 11:30 PM
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | Great stuff guys. I am sooooo pumped to get this talk rocking. I am getting a custom stand built so I will not have my tank up and running for about a month or more.
I have two Emperor 400 filters already and I am looking for a canister to run with them. Low maintance and the electric bill is also thought. What would be my best choise?
Eheim Pro 3 2080
Eheim Pro 3 E 2078
Eheim 2260
FX5 maybe?
Watt is 30 or 50 watts. Should I be thinking about this? How much of a diff does it make?
My brother also has a bunch of fish. He lives on the lake and had a few ponds on his land. I know a few friends that also have muskies in tanks. Cool to watch.
I want to have a established tank by late March. Getting the fish early would be cool but with the new laws it might be a problem. Hoffers is my go to place unless anyone else can help me get some gills, perch, walleyes to get started. The ski's grow so fast.
[email protected] is my e-mail Bob.
Any and all advice is helpfull. Keep it coming............
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Posts: 30
| Definitely glad to find this thread. I had no idea anyone kept them in an aquarium. So now I'm already planning on setting up a tank. Can't wait to get one going! |
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | Just got off the phone with Bob(aka Pgaschulz). Wow, what a cool guy with so much knowledge of fish tanks. He has opened my eyes to what I need to see and which direction to go with my filter system and tank. He is a true aquarium veteran. Thanks for your help Bob. I will be asking more questions as I get into this 265 gallon tank set up.
Just another reason to come to MuskieFirst for all your fish needs. What a great family we have here. |
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Posts: 2378
| Koepp, I'm jealous. I wish I could find one that big.
I have a 125 right now, and I love it.
Got a Walleye, LM Bass, and a Bullhead.
Looking for some Perch and maybe a Pike or Muskie.
I will build my next tank. I've found plans on the net. Just need to find a place for it. It's gonna be BIG... |
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Posts: 89
| What are the dimensions of a 265 gallon tank? The weight is well over a ton so the distribution footprint would be important when locating such a beast in your home. Do any of you operate a smaller tank to raise bait fish as dinner? Scott |
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Posts: 561
Location: Monee, Illinois | Teach them to eat freeze dried Krill, I had my all my game fish eating it after one week of feeding. Then you dont have to worry about Ich or having to keep live fish on hand, night crawlers are also great, the musky loved them and so did all the other fish. If you want to learn how to teach your live fish to eat the Krill just shoot me an email....pgaschulz
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Posts: 170
Location: Chicagoland | For freshwater fish, especially musky, I wouldn't do anything under 350 gallons if your re looking to keep them for the long run. With a 250, you have to be very carefull not to overload the tank and make sure everyone has there own space. If you plan on keeping these fish it will take time and money. Try to get a good t5 light set that can grow some milfoil or elodea or cabbage to give the fish a comfortable environment. With a good amount of plants and wood in your tank, the fish will look healthier and likely exhibit more natural behaviors. I would be hesitant to mix esox with panfish, even though the musky farm site says its ok, because they will consistantly harrass the little guys, often t the point of death. I have never kept pike or muskie in an aquarium, but this is coming from 10 years of keeping bass in a 450 gallon aquarium with a blue cat (got too big) and some crappie. I tried to keep perch but they were not comfortable and ended up stressed to death by the LM's aggressive behavior. Another key point is filtration. Don't buy a overhang filter such as a biowheel, as these will be bad for any plants you put in, especially if your keep lilly pads. A Rena Filstar XP5 will probable do the trick, and again, is not cheap. From here, I can leave you with only two paths:
1. You go with tank that has minimal cover that is too small for the fish you keep, causing the fish to be unnatural
or
2. Save up some coin and get a setup that will blow people away when you show them. A well running aquarium that supports fish and is beautiful can be one of the most rewarding undertakings one can do, besides muskie fishing of course. Get out there, do research, and have fun! Another thing, you will learn that freshwater fish are much more intelligent than classic tropical tank fish. They will be companions as well as sweet things to look at. Bass will often learn feeding patterns and await your arrival to the tank front. Pike with walleye would be a sweet combo, and provided they have a good home to live in, they will be some of the best pets you ever owned.
-Live2Fish |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | I would agree, a bigger tank is always going to be better but like the last post state (EXPENSIVE) . We started with six 7 inch Muskies. We raised them for a year. We had one run in with a disease that we treated and everything was cool after that. We used a cannister filter for a 100 gallon tank for our 55 gallon tank. Also used only well water and artificial plants. Our goal was not to keep them forever. We put them into a private pond where they are all doing very well now at approximatly 30 inches in length. This is their third winter under the ice. They adapted well to a wild environment . They were all very good at catching minnows. The pond is a small lake really with lots of suckers, shiners and panfish. They are the only predators in the lake. Our goal was to get them to the minnow eating stage and release them into this pond.
If I were going to keep one for a long time I would want the tank to be long and wide enough for the mukies to turn easily and chase prey without being helds back by a narrow tank. To expensive for my budget to keep a 400 gallon tank clean and running . Kingfisher |
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Posts: 32876
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Muskies and panfish do very well together, as do Pike and panfish. I just make sure the panfish are large enough not to be mistaken as a possible meal. Bass, on the other hand, beat the heck out of crappies, gills, and perch as described above no matter what the size difference is. Bass are just plain mean.
Red Rosies will eat the fins off a 18" pike and harrass it near to death, don't feed those minnows if you can help it.
I feed irregularly, and never let the fish run out of prey in the tank if possible. This way they behave more like they would in the wild, I believe, without classical conditioning practices effecting behavior.
Keep in mind the fish need a regular 'daytime' and 'nighttime' as well, turn the tank lights off at close to the same time each evening if you can. |
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Posts: 462
Location: Antioch, IL | Hey Mike,
Some good advice given already. A few things I wanted to add/expand on. "Cycle" your tank with starter fish first. You need to make sure the nitrogen cycle is complete before you add fish that you will care about if they die. Get a decent liquid test kit (not those sh?$#y paper strips). You really only need to test the main four (ph, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates) I won't geek out and go into what and how the nitrogen cycle works (pm me and we can get in depth). DO NOT DO WATER CHANGES UNTIL THE CYCLE IS COMPLETE. 3-6 weeks depending on qty/size of fish, filtration, feeding etc. You will only delay the process. once nitrates are present in the 20-40ppm range should you do water changes. Change no more than 20-25% of the total water volume at a time. I would take the previous advise and stay away from live foods. They introduce disease, add extra waste and stir up the aggressive nature in animals you are forcing to live together in a tight space. As far as filtration goes, there is no such thing as too much. I would avoid the hang on style (they are for small tanks only.) for a 265 gal. tank you should at the very least set up a large wet/dry filter, sometimes called a trickle filter. It is basically an reservoir that tank water flows into through filter media and the pumped back into the main tank. I can show you how to build on cheap compared to buying one at a pet store. You should be turning the total water volume over at least 4-5 times and hour, so a 265 gal tank really needs a pump pushing approx. 1200gal/hour. Get a book on fresh water set ups and do some research on the net. There are some good sites out there. Learn your water quality needs and maintain them. I have attached a couple photos. One is a tank my company built for a residence in Galena and the other is my tank at home. I have always wanted to do an Indigenous but haven't gotten around to it. Too much fun breading corals.
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Posts: 1769
Location: Algonquin, ILL | Having had Salt, Reef & Fresh water Aquariums for the past 30+ years the best advice i can give you is as follows
1 - Stock your new aquarium slowly, this give your biological filter the oportunity to build up the bacteria needed to break down waste products without over loading the biological filters capacity.
2 - Most books suggest that after the Aquarium has cycled changing 25% of the water monthly, I suggest changing 10% weekly this will keep the water fresher by preventing spikes in ammonia,nitrites & nitrates
3 - DON"T OVER STOCK, this is where most people fail when starting up an aquarium, Sure it's nice to look into a tank and see schools of fish but it's a closed system not a river or lake where the volume of water to bio load is 1000x what it is in an aquarium, even with 10% weekly water changes we still can not match the what nature provides.
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | Great advice for all to see here.
I want to lok into making my own wet/dry setup. The pump I was loking into is a Mag Drive MD18 1800 GPH. I had to go higher because the lenght of hose is going to be about 5 to 6ft long off the pump. I am going to google the "how to build your own" to see what comes up. PLEASE feel free to e-mail me any pictures, opinions, options or set-ups.
I am looking to get my tank set up in a few weeks and would like to research everything until then to get the best set-up I can.
Live weeds might wait. I will go with wood, rock and plastic for now.
Any advice on painting the back of the tank or some kind of water resistant back ground?
I have my tank by a bay window so I want to block out as much light as I can. I will be running a huge shade also. Weight is about 3000lbs. It is set over the block foundation. Best support but bad because the light issue. It has to go there. Light will have to be blocked. I have vertical blinds now but still too much light. Maybe a huge pull down shade? Tank is 7ft x 2ft x 30-inches tall.
ONE other question? How tall should my custom stand be. 36-inches, 38-inches, 40-inches?
Stone level is also something I have had mixed opinions on. I am leaning toward "less is better" due to the fish crap and other stuff that settles into the gravel.
I am not going to go overboard with fish. A couple walleyes, perch, muskie, gills and nmaybe a few good bottom feeders. Any sugestions as to what would all be good to start with?
I have had mixed opinions on what to start with. Gills pick on the small muskies is one. Muskies will grow to fast and eat the small gills and others is another. What would be a good starter batch of fish. Then add what?
Hoffers has a permit to get all kinds of game fish. A reciept is all I need to have to keep undersize fish.
I plan to grow the fish and then give them away. Hopefully to a good home like some mentioned ponds, Cabelas, Bass Pro, etc.
Starting them small and watching them grow and live with each other is what I want to see. Maybe keeping a few select fish only is what might happen. Time will tell.
Great info!!!
Keep it coming here, e-mail, PM. I thank all of you for your help. |
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Posts: 1769
Location: Algonquin, ILL | I have always used Black construction paper as a background, you should be able to find it in rolls large enough to cover the back glass with one sheet at art supply stores, I like using Black because it gives a greater appearence of depth to the tank and the fish really stand out against a Black background plus it is cheap and non-toxic and easily replaced
Edited by JohnMD 2/5/2008 12:41 PM
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Posts: 462
Location: Antioch, IL | Mag-drives are good quality pumps. I have used and abused many. You are on the right track with an 1800, taking into consideration the head pressure. All pump ratings are based without any connections.
My opinion on the amount of substrate changes bepending on the tank and owner. If you are not going to try live plants (I suggest avoiding them at first) go with a lrger diameter pebble/stone. As far as how much depends on how hands on you plan on being. The more substrate you use the more surface area you will have for the benificial bacteria to grow on, but if you slack on cleaning you have more area for food and poo to trap and decay in. Always do water changes with a Hydro-vac to clean the substrate. Especialy when keeping larger, nasty predatory fish. (eat alot = poop alot). I suggest around 3 inches of even coverage. (More if you are trying fish that will dig beds - treat 'em nice and you may get babies)
I always do a black background for the same reseans as stated above, but I highly suggest spraypaint.
As far a decor. Personal preference as far as a natural look vs. odd colors and goofy stuff. Main thing is the more places a fish has to hide, the more comfortable they feel & the less they will use the hiding places.
If I could only say one thing about fish keeping. DO NOT OVER FEED!
in 25 years of experience with aquariums. Buiding custom tanks, improting fish, corals, inverts. maintaining 100's of aquariums for clients all over. the #1 cause of fish death is over feeding.
Good luck & keep us updated.
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Posts: 431
| I've been reading this thread because I always thought I would enjoy a large aquarium with native fish. Having not maintained an aquarium since I was in grade school, what should I expect as start up costs for say a 150 gallon tank. I don't need specifics, just ballpark. I might get more serious. Thanks. |
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Posts: 170
Location: Chicagoland | somewhere, depending on the stores around you, between $1000 to $1700 for the full set up with lights, filters, etc. However, you can easily make a trip to craigslist.org and search for tanks there. They are not always the highest quality, but boy are they got values... |
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Posts: 155
| We,ve gotten some Tigers from Hoffers in the past.But they only get them once a year or so... |
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Posts: 101
| Hey guys, just thought I would share my new guy that I finally got home last night. Not quite a musky, but an Orange Pike Cichlid. Just about as viscious though. Will eat anything it can fit in it's mouth! This guy tried to swallow another tank make, same species, same size before I got him. Now he lives alone, and eats frozen krill and shrimp.
I'm getting my musky in May!!
~Dawg
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