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Posts: 71
| when doing the figure eight when is the best time to figure eight the bait very fast with quick turns???and when is the best time to figure slow and lazy with extremely slow turns???ive heard that there is certain times when it is better to figure fast to get the fish to turn on the bait.but then ive also heard that at times its better to figure eight very slowly.and also how deep should i have the rod tip in the water???and how much line should i have out from the tip of the rod to my lure in order to not spook the fish???
Edited by musky12 2/1/2008 11:18 AM
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Posts: 2024
| Scrap the "time of year" mentality. Focus on the fish's mood. If the fish is RIGHT behind your bait going into the 8 hit him with some SPEED. If it's a little further back, slow it down and maybe go deep. There is no one formula for doing a figure 8. You have to let the fish tell you what to do when. With experience it will get easier. You should have about 18" from rod tip to lure, or something in that ball park. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Bury the rod in the water up to the cork.. deep is good.
Ya, if the fish is "hot" speed it up, and ALWAYS on every cast, do the 8 for sure.
Jerome |
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Posts: 462
Location: Madison Wi. Chain | just learn to do a good figure 8 every cast. You can make adjustments once you have learned how to make a good figure 8 every time. I have not heard anything about time of year and type of figure 8. BG |
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Posts: 71
| so i should figure 8 every cast even if i dont see a fish attack or follow?would it be wierd if i figure eight topwaters? |
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Posts: 8773
| Man, what a question... It took me three years to catch a fish on a figure 8, and I had all those same questions, drove myself nuts over it. Last year most of my fish were caught on the 8. What changed? I stopped worrying about what to do, and just did it. What I mean is this: Do a figure 8, and make it a big one. Forget the how far how fast what time of year is it crap, it did me no good at all. Probably fried 10,000 brain cells thinking about it, all I got was a headache, and lost a bunch of fish because I was so worked up over making sure I did everything perfect during my 8 I forgot to watch the stupid fish...
So there's my advice: chill out. watch the fish. Sooner or later you'll get one to eat on the 8. Then another, and another, and another. I'm not a whiz at it or anything, but I believe what I am about to tell you:
The only way to learn a good figure 8 is to catch some fish on a figure 8.
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Posts: 93
Location: Minneapolis, MN | Figure 8 topwaters, yes. Drop 'em down. |
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Posts: 580
| I'd recommend that you check out a great article about the in's and out's of the figure 8 in one of the summer Musky Hunter magazines by Cory Painter. I think it was the July issue from this past summer. The article pulls together many of the concepts in a very straightforward, easy-to-apply manner. |
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| how much line should i have out from the tip of the rod to my lure in order to not spook the fish???
i've actually hit fish with my rod-tip before, obviously that doesn't help get them to eat, but i also don't worry about the rod tip spooking the fish away during the figure-8 process - particularly fish that are hot behind the lure. i reel up to the leader.
if you leave too much line out, the lure will cut the corners of your figure-8, removing the advantage of making big turns with your rod.
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Sometimes you won't see jack !,,, then all of a sudden there She is,, so yes ALWAYS do the 8 or at least a good circle or L..
And top water baits are the best to do the 8.... Scares the shnit out of you when they hit on top water while doing the 8. Very, very cool....
Get into this" habbit "on every cast to boat more fish thru the season.
Jerome |
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Posts: 431
| Somebody asked if they should do an 8 even if they don't see a follow. Absolutely. Do 1 or 2 turns to see what pops up. You'll be surprised at how many follows you don't see, unless you're in super clear water. As others have said, do a deep 8. The best tip I can give is keep mixing it up. Don't keep a constant speed and size of the turns. A lot of fish will hit when you give them an extra burst of speed. It took me a while to catch my first figure 8 musky, but I boated 3 over 40" last year on LOTW in one week on the figure 8. It's all about persistence and being ready. With topwaters, I have had success 8ing a topraider, but trying to 8 a bait like a jackpot is tough. |
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Posts: 313
Location: On your favorite spot | esox50 got it right, gotta follow the mood of the fish.
when i first started out, i had no clue how to do the 8. nothing helped me out more than seeing it done successfully by someone else!!!!!!!!
when in doubt, faster is usually better, don't give up right away if they disappear, don't be afraid to really slash that water with your rod either, sometimes it takes a quick hard jerk to wake them up. when that fish is HOT on the bait, she won't care about anything else.
i like to figure 8 my topwater on the surface, haven't had much luck sub-surface. check out Pearson's 'Muskies on the Shield' for some good surface bait action, he loses a big one a figure 8 on the surface.
finally, always think about how you're going to set the hook on the 8 when she does hit, if you don't plan a little bit, you're apt to end up with wet pants, a dropped jaw, and a really really sick feeling in the pit of your stomach |
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Posts: 97
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan | The mood of the fish is most important like everyone has said. There will be times when you can do everything wrong but the fish will still hit and there will be times when you do a perfect figure 8 and they wont hit. I do a big circle instead of an 8 because I can make much wider turns with the circle. I think this helps because sometimes while turning on a figure 8 you can take the bait away from the fish and turn the fish around too much. The biggest thing I noticed this last season that caught me more fish was to speed up and elevate the bait in the turn going away from the boat. The turn is still wide, but I speed the bait up and bring it up in the water column. I think this resembles a bait fish to them because when I see bait fish getting chased by a predator they always go near the surface and even jump out of the water trying to avoid the predator. Again, the fish's mood is the biggest thing but as a general rule I go high and fast when the bait is far away from the boat and deep and slower when close to the boat. Theres a segment from Linder's Angling Edge called 'Musky triggers' or something that gives a good demonstration of what I am talking about. |
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Posts: 431
| If you want a good figure 8 story, my dad raised a low 40s fish last year on a bucktail on some shallow rocks. It followed his 8 for a while before peeling off. I immediately cast a jake out, and it followed me in and followed my 8 for about 5 turns, but it was acting kind of weird, like it would lose the bait periodically and then come back. It peeled off and went back to the rocks. I cast back again with the jake and it followed again. It followed my jake for another 5 or 6 turns, acting weird again, before it finally nailed it. I brought it into the net and found out it only had ONE EYE. The other eye was completely closed up, almost like it had never had an eye. It couldn't see the bait when I was going a certain direction. It was really healthy, but kind of weird. |
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Posts: 1046
| Baits like a weagle/doc, hawgwobbler, creeper are most times a bust if you dont trigger the strike before the bait gets back to the boat. I do a short L and recast. On the other hand topraiders, globes, and those type baits are very conducive to figure 8`s and I have always had my best luck going subsurface. That 18" of line out rule works perfect, except for large billed cranks, I increase to about 3`-4` for the best in 8`ing. |
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Posts: 1245
Location: Madtown, WI | Thanks Matt for the plug...if anyone is interested in the article PM me and I can send you a PDF of the article.
Its NEVER too cold for speed....as a lot of folks have mentioned..the mood is critical.
However, I have seen lazy LATE fall muskies come unglued when speed in the 8 was added.
Cory |
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| just read the fish, it takes tons of encounters and follows to learn how to read a fish...never underestimate how fast a lazy fish can speed up on a bait..water temps do not factor into it..when they want to eat, they will eat.
be ready when the do. |
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Posts: 170
| Yep...Cory's article is a good one to read! The "only" time I have seen a "slower" approach work, is when a fish came up several times (must be using a slow rising bait) and she wouldn't go, until a stop and slow "death rise" of the suick/bobbie type bait was put in front of her...then she committed. Otherwise (as in 90%+) of the time, speed really seems to trip em. And yes, the attitude of the fish is crucial. If she's bumping her nose on the bait as you're appraoching the boat, and speed is added, just before the turn, you can almost bet she'll eat. Well over 50% of my fish caught last year came on an 8. |
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Posts: 2089
| I look at it like it's a game of "keep away" and I'm going to win. Speed Kills!!!!Lots of practice helps. Hone your skills and be perfect EVERY time. Boatside manner is a big part of the game. Never slow the bait down at boatside either. In the wild, think about what happens when the prey slows down when being pursued by a predator.....it's dead.If that bait slows down as it approaches the boat.....she's gone. Not giving the stupid fish intelligence, but I think they realize something's just not "right". I don't do a complete 8 on every cast either(unless I see a fish), but I teach clients what I call trigger points. There are 3 trigger points and if she doesn't commit(show herself) from those, then I'm casting for her sister. Boatside stuff is one of the most exciting aspects of muskie fishing, but it can also be the most frustrating. Keep practicing and have fun!! Steve |
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| lots of good info, but I can honestly say that the day I started speeding up my 8's in a way that was more of taking the bait away from the fish, my hookups went up.
I had what I thought was a lazy follow, 6' behind the bait and deep, but when I whipped into the 8, the fish launched itself toward the bait and I hooked up.
I don't think a lot of people give the fish their credit on how fast and explosive they could be. Slowing a lure down to match a slow moving fish has rarely worked for me, ripping it away has produced much better. |
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Posts: 170
| I think I read a statistic once that a muskie can go from 0-35 mph in like 6 or 8 feet. May not sound that fast, but that is some serious "acceleration"!! |
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Posts: 71
| thanx guys ill give all this information a try when the freakin ice goes away and i can fish for muskies.... |
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Posts: 59
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | Cal taught me a trick that worked well for him, instead of increasing the speed or the lure on the inside corners and slow on the outside, do the opposite. It worked for me on Eagle they'd hit on the inside corner going slow. |
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| Figure eight fish just add to the mystery behind these fish. Like it was mentioned above, with what we would call a perfect 8 the fish looses interest and sinks but you can turn start an 8 after stopping, accidentally bang the rod against the side of the boat or make too tight a turn and have the fish hot and kill the lure. I had one follow me while I walked around the perimeter of my 14ft boat the whole way and back again over 50ft of follow then just sink away. Eights, like hooksets, are free. Do them. |
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| I always speed up right next to the boat on every cast, thatll trigger there attention useally..than just read the fish...in a matter of seconds youll be able to tell... |
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Posts: 313
Location: On your favorite spot | yeah, careful not to hit your rod on the boat, right Nick? |
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| Been there, done that...had a nice 4 footer chasing a bucktail around the 8 till i hit the boat than managed to hit the outboard....needless to say i lost sleep that night... |
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Posts: 94
| I'm new to this figure 8 thing, are there any good clips online that show closeups of the exact movements? I've found one, the one below, are there any other ones? And does it work with any kinds of lures such as spoons, crankbaits and jerkbaits too, or is it only for bucktails?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPsFfcsPKaM
Edited by Petey21 2/7/2008 7:56 AM
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Posts: 344
Location: Musky Country | High,slow, far out from the boat as possilable.
Fast, deep close to the boat.
Oval not eight that my 2 cents lol |
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Posts: 8773
| Best description I can come up with:
First off a figure 8 is a 3 dimensional activity...
1. As you are reeling in your bait, when its about 15 feet from the boat, swing your rod tip out to the side (your left if your reeling with your right hand) as a "prep" for the 8. This direction change will often trigger a following fish. Speed up your retrieve a bit here too.
2 As the lure approaches, gradually speed up more, and pull the bait left to right towards the center of your body, parallel to the boat.
3. Continue speeding up while bringing your arms closer to your body and pulling the bait towards you. This is one of the fastest points on the 8.
4. While doing this you will also naturally pull the bait down in the water. Don't be afraid to exaggerate this motion and put the rod way down in the water, but be careful not to whack the boat or the fish with your rod. (done both, usually scares 'em off) Also avoid making abrupt moves, bending over etc. This will also scare off quite a few fish. 4. is the deepest point of the 8.
5. When you reach the point where you almost can't go any further, bring the lure out and away from the boat. You will also bring the lure up in the water column. (Since your rod and arms are of a fixed length, You HAVE to or you'd fall in)
This is the start of what I call the "hot zone", where a lot of fish seem to eat, also known as "high and on the outside".
Some guys slow down here. In a way you kind of have to -- if you tried to speed up and/or go deep coming around the outside? *SPLASH* In 'ya go. At least I would, but I'm kinda clumsy. This turn, where the lure is near the surface, is the end of the critical zone. Not that they won't eat elsewhere on the 8, just that this seems like a favorite spot.
6. You're outta arms and rod length, gotta come back. This is the top part of the figure 8. From here you're just making the shape of an 8 as many times as it takes to get that fish to eat. The changes of speed and direction seem to be trigger points.
7. Speed up, go deep
8. Low point, some guys actually bury the rod in the water up to the reel.
Attachments
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 figure 8.JPG (18KB - 160 downloads)
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