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| I have been on this site a few times recently and there always seems to be a heated argument going on involving the release of fish. This is purely a devil's advocate position, but what is the difference between keeping a legal fish and taking a large buck. That deer probably carries the best genes in the area, one of the arguments I see for releasing large fish. A lot of people say they take deer for the meat. In my experience the best tasting venison comes from a younger doe. The only reason I can see for taking a large buck is purely for the trophy vlaue. You want something to hang on your wall and show off. Can someone explain the difference between someone keeping a 50''+ fish and taking the 150''+ buck? |
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Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI | I think it lies mostly with the fact that, while both muskies and deer are renewable resources, it takes 5 years to grow a trophy whitetail, maybe 15+ years to grow a trophy muskie. Growth rates will vary between areas so those numbers are general.
Lot more deer than muskies too.
JS |
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Posts: 1058
Location: Medford, WI | Matt, I think the biggest differences is that muskies can be caught and released; whereas deer are killed instantly (or soon after they're shot).
(Jason makes a great point about growth rates and population size as well. Jason, are you going to be at the Milwaukee show at all? I need to pick up the new dvd and would like to talk to you again. I had talked to you or Gordy for a while in Medina, MN last year about smaller lakes by you and night-fishing.)
Edited by Medford Fisher 1/29/2008 9:47 AM
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Posts: 2894
Location: Yahara River Chain | The major difference is the fish is captured ALIVE and would have to be killed to harvest. Whereas the buck when captured is dead. The option to release a fish is possible and therefore we are (and do) releasing them. |
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Posts: 550
Location: So. Illinois | The quality of muskie reproductions makes it more appealing than getting a skin mount. They stand up better to time and you have the satisfaction of knowing the fish is still swimming. |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | You can hunt trophy Whitetails with a CAMERA if you want to "release" them.
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Location: Athens, Ohio | Besides the issue of water-bourne toxins accumulating in fish flesh (i.e. mercury and lead), I've never had a problem hitting a muskie with my car on the highway. Shoot all you want of them, please, but leave me some fish to catch. m |
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Posts: 4
| Actually the doe has 80% of the genetics.
I think the main reason is because you CAN release the fish.
I whitetail hunt for the trophy rack but I also love every ounce of meat. Another factor is the deers life span is short and if it wasn't harvested there would be to many.
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You're talking about animals that have completely different niches.
Deer are plentiful, opportunistic, prolific creatures that are in need of culling off to be healthy.
If more peolple hunted, we'd have a healthier deer herd with more mature animals. (with the right management)
Muskies do not fit that mold. They are a low density, slow growing animal that can be exploited easily by killing, especially in natural, non-stocked waters.
The most notorious example would be Wabigoon,which took about 20 years to really recover.
John |
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| I am not talking about the twelve thousand button bucks and does that are running around. I said trophy bucks. 150''+ Trophies. Why not take a picture and let him keep breeding even if his genetics don't count for as much. Cull the deer herd by taking the does and small bucks. This does increase the quality of the herd.
True trophy whitetails are not prolific and plentiful. The monsters we all want are elusive and hard to find like the 50''+ muskie.
Edited by muskydeceiver 1/29/2008 10:47 AM
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 6 years old is an old buck here. 20 years on a muskie is very possible. I wouldn't say there are more deer in most places when looking at numbers per acre other than the fact there are ALOT more acres of land than muskie water; it's the fact you can see them easily and hit them with a car like Mikie brought up. And, they get alot bigger than a muskie and taste one heck of alot better.
We have so many deer here now we can get tags during the season for $2 for antlerless. I'll kill enough every year to fill my freezer, and feel really good about it. Don't need another rack in the house, that's for sure....
If there were 1 deer average per acre that would be way too many, but I'd eat well until a disease wiped 'em out....
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Deer as a species are prolofic and plentiful, muskies are not.
If your questioning how to manage for trophy bucks vs. trophy muskies, than there are similarities.
What do people do on "deer farms", or whatever you call them.
They pass up deer until they are trophies, much like muskie fishermen who release fish to become trophies.
Trophy deer hunting involves killing the trophy, that's hunting. There is no "release" option to hunting. Photography doesn't kill, but it's not hunting.
I guess if a hunter wanted to, they could should tranquilizer darts at deer.
Not really sure where to go as far as answering "what it the difference between killing a trophy muskie and a trophy deer".
JS |
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| now that sounds like a fun sport.
shoot a deer with a tranquiler dart and run after him in the woods or field until he drops.
unless you are a marathoner, you had better mix up one hell of a cocktail. |
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Posts: 8782
| I'll try this one:
1. Deer: Cause many car accidents and injuries Muskies: Cause few injuries and no car accidents
2. Deer: killed with projectile, either from rifle or bow Muskie: Killed by blunt force to head
3. Deer: good table fare Muskie: Not so much
4. Deer: If left to own devices would breed to epidemic proportions Muskie: Not so much
5. Deer: Trophy is typically a male, who produces no offspring Muskie: Trophy is typically a female
6. Deer: Reproduce successfully wherever they are Muskies: Often don't
7. Deer: Can only be shot once Muskies: can be caught multiple times if released (can be shot once, though)
8. Deer: Will eat your landscaping Muskies: Won't
9. Deer: Covered in fur Muskies: Covered in scales and slime
10. Deer: Must often find it after you have shot it Muskies: Look in the net
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Posts: 2378
| Hoop - 1/29/2008 12:42 PM now that sounds like a fun sport. shoot a deer with a tranquiler dart and run after him in the woods or field until he drops. unless you are a marathoner, you had better mix up one hell of a cocktail. not as odd as it may sound...there is a ranch in New Mexico running catch and release elk hunts where you shoot the animal with a tranquilizer http://www.pearson-ranch.com/game-park-hunts.html |
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| Baldy,
I do remember seeing something about the Pearson Ranch on one of the boards a while back. Nice catch.
I believe that they use a transmitter to track them, don't they?
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Posts: 2378
| Not sure exactly how they do it...I didnt read too much. But they mentioned something about paintball elk hunts also...interesting |
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Posts: 1462
Location: Davenport, IA | Deer must be killed to make muskie lures. |
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Posts: 28
Location: mankato, mn | Hey baldy you've got me thinking now. Hmm, a catch and release hunting season. Just imagine the beautiful release shot you could get with the hunter holding the elk's tail with it's face into the wind as he comes to! haha...that's just too funny. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | What is the difference? Most guys going out musky fishing looking for the trophy go with the goal to release the fish. Most hunters I know go out with the goal to kill that trophy buck. |
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Posts: 2894
Location: Yahara River Chain | As some have said the deer is a prey item and the muskie is the top predator in its environment. Maybe you should compare wolf vs muskie? Or Mountain Lion vs Muskie? Both are rare and muskies can be released after capture. |
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Posts: 335
Location: Minnesota | This is a good post! For argument's sake, deer might not have been the best choice of comparisons for reasons as stated above.
What about 15 inch crappies? We have seen the transformation in walleye fishing from most people keeping 26" walleyes to now most people releasing them. Most people release 50" plus muskies now whereas 15 years ago most 50 inchers I heard about were killed. When will we quit killing trophy crappies? A 15 inch crappie is just as much a trophy as a 30" walleye and a 50" musky. The baitshops and fisheries professionals all talk about how easy it is to fish out a crappie lake and then 8 years later the crappie population comes back.
I also like the angle muskie! nut is taking with comparing top predators to each other too. Wolves are a good comparison because there are people who hate wolves and shoot them illegally to leave them rot.
Just more to think about.
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| Maybe deer weren't the best comparison species, but I think some people are getting my point. |
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If your point is that because it's O.K. (or maybe a better term is common practice) to kill trophy deer, than it should be O.K. to kill trophy muskies, than I don't get your point.
If your point is something other than that, please elaborate.
JS
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| I didn't say it was OK to do either. I was simply asking what the difference is. Why is it OK to take a brute out of the timber, but not out of the water? Simply for arguments sake.
I also wanted to say that I have contacted individuals at the Iowa DNR about the possibility of raising the size limit for muskies in the Iowa Great Lakes, a system that has shown it is capable of producing very large fish. They always ask me why it is up to me to determine what a trophy is. They go on by saying that a 40'' fish is a trophy to a lot of people. I am going to join a muskie club and hopefully then I will be able to get more people involved in trying to get something done. Other than that does anyone else have suggestions on how to try and get something going.
Edited by muskydeceiver 10/1/2008 12:23 PM
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Posts: 327
Location: In the slop! | Good luck with the IDNR...... |
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Posts: 8782
| A 40" fish IS a trophy to a lot of people. Not many of them are muskie fishermen, though. And while it probably won't do any good you might point him in the direction of a muskie magazine or even the Lax contest page here at MuskieFIRST, just to give him some perspective on what muskie anglers typically consider to be a trophy. |
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| the Iowa Great Lakes Hatchery is one of the largest exporters(State to State) of Muskies in the U.S. They export 10x of thousand yearly and now with the VHS resrictions one of the only States not linked to the Great Lakes that can export. They stock 649 every other year in Spirit and Okoboji for comparison. It's all about $ in Iowa not quality fisherys. |
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Posts: 406
Location: Stones throw away...finally!! | Good luck with the Iowa authorities. We have been trying for years to get a change. There is usually a spring meeting between all of the state chapters of MI and the DNR. Every year, same discussions...every year same turnout. They are not interested at all with anything we presented. They would rather sell them to neighboring states by the thousands. I have more or less given up on this state. I would rather drive 3.5 - 4 hours and fish MN than fish 20 minutes from home on an Iowa DNR "musky program" body of water. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Just for the sake of argument has been a real common thread lately. There isn't any real 'comparison', so if the intent of the thread is to eventually talk about raising size limits in Iowa, why not go there first? |
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