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Posts: 26
Location: Wisconsin | I am looking at buying a new boat and was planning on getting a Yamaha 4 stroke on it. Found a Ranger I like but it has a Merc. 4 stroke on it. This is a 90 hp. tiller and I do plan on doing some trolling, so the question is this motor as good as the Yamaha as far as being smooth and quiet and dependable or should I stick to the Yamaha?
Thanks,
Tom P. |
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| PM SENT! |
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| I bought a 75 Yamaha this spring. What sold me on it was the tiller handle. If you troll you will want to check it out before making a decision. |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | I had a 115 Mercury 4stroke. It was a 2002. Dad and I trolled a lot with it in early spring. I was able to troll down to anywhere from 1.9-2.1 pending conditions. The motor really did well for trolling. I've personally trolled with both kinds of motors. I did not see any difference in my opinion. There both awesome motors and will do the same performance wise. Now like what MadJim above said, the handles do vary. So I think the main thing is, figure out what you like and go with it. The Merc will do everything the Yamaha can.
Edited by Merckid 12/4/2007 7:19 PM
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Posts: 814
| The Yamaha has the best tiller handle setup in the business PERIOD! Also since you are looking at new motors the yamaha tiller will also come the the vts system which changes engine rpm's in 50 rpm increments. which is awesome for trolling and even in big wind when the trolling motor can't be used. The handle also has the tilt/trim right at the tip of the handle for easy adjustment....no more foot control tilt trim.
Edited by mskyhntr 12/4/2007 7:40 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Have you seen the Tiller Mercury hydraulic steering?
Just wondering. |
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| What's the difference from any hydraulic steering? |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | ANY? There are so many I assume...
New handle, new system, and tillers all the way to the big blocks with the handle and hydraulic steering standard. |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Dave Anderson, reigning 2005 Professional Walleye Trail Champion runs a 175 with the Hydraulic steering system. Also, two time back to back PWT champion and all time money winner on the PWT, Ron Seelhoff has been running the new or new last year Lund 2010 Pro Guide with a 175 Optimax with the Hydraulic Steering. He's arguably THEE best walleye trolling professional on any professional walleye circuit. Won the fourth event at Mille Lacs in 2006 with this rig and a Mercury 175 Optimax and the hydraulic steering. So, to answer your question, Yamaha does NOT have the best 'period'. Both brands are well built and are nice motors.
You mentioned the VTS system. Have you ever heard of the Smart Craft system? I believe Mercury was the first to design something like this. The VTS came after the Mercury Smart Craft gauges. You can also dial down in 50 rpm increments. PLUS, this is offered on the Optimax and the Verado motors by Mercury! As for your tilt/trim question, they have this button right on the handle to my friend. Sorry to say, if anything, Yamaha is playing catch up on big tillers. But, the Yammy is still a great motor!
Oh, I forgot to mention, the Smart Craft gauges are available on all larger models in an Optimax, maybe even a 75! |
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| TJ what does bieng a walleye pro have to do with hydraulic power steering on a smaller tiller setup? Also Mercury hydraulic power steering is not available on smaller motors until Jan 2008 check the website! The Mertens system on these bigger motors is available for Yammy too! Many 620 tillers out there with the power steering my friend. And the smart craft is another OPTION the vts is STANDARD for the smaller yammy tillers! Look at both handles if you can't see the difference theirs obviosly a problem. Also who's playing catch up? I have a 06 90 yammy tiller have you looked at a 06 mercury tiller handle? Big Difference
Edited by mskyhntr 12/5/2007 5:12 AM
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| Pro's don't always use best imo. They use what they get the best deal from the sponor on!
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| I agree with Bulldawger
Pro's don't always use what is actually the "best of the best" but what their boat company wants them to run and what motor company offers them the best deal.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | In this case both Pros are running THEIR choice of product, including the boat and motor. Both could run about any product they wish. In this case, TJ is absolutely correct.
I just looked at the Mercury Hydraulic Tiller handle pricing, some Mercs will be available with a dealer installed hydraulic system, and some with factory installed systems. That system will allow you to steer that big rig with a fingertip. Yes, the Smart Craft system is an option, but it does MUCH more than just set the speed. As far as the 'catch up' statement, I believe TJ was looking at the Smart Craft system, and Merc has had that available for years. The handle issue is debatable, and is a personal preference. If I had a choice of any tiller motor out there, I'd choose the fastest, most fuel efficient motor I can buy and definitely have the hydraulic steering installed. In this case and following that criteria, it would be an Opti Max. Read up.
That said, Yamaha builds a very fine product, and will continue to no doubt. Look at all the options, get in the boat on the dealer's showroom floor, and grab that tiller handle.
Guest, really now. Why did you select your boat brand, and what happened to that brand's entire Pro Team last year? HMMM, the company sold, and POOF, everyone out there who had worked their collective fannies off to promote that boat was pretty much left holding an empty sack. Just because you do what you do doesn't mean a true Nationally recognized Pro like Ron has to, wants to, or needs to.
Bulldawger,
When was the last time you spent a summer working hands on with In Fisherman and the sponsors of a National tournament circuit, and over 100 Pros? A lifetime's and more contact with engines, boats, and Pros in short order, and I speak form personal experience; I attend and work at the same events. Service trailers and the best of the best factory wrenches there, factory support personnel, the top Walleye Pros in the world, and all of this in an intense atmosphere where the product HAS to perform. Yamaha has a number of sponsored anglers, so if you want to be rude, you could make the same 'run what pays best' comment about them. I can tell you, it's a personal choice by most Pros what motor they run, and most are intensely loyal to the brand. |
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| I never said, "All Pro's", but some pro's do run boats or motor based on the deals they can get with one company over another company.
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | mskyhntr - 12/5/2007 5:10 AM
TJ what does bieng a walleye pro have to do with hydraulic power steering on a smaller tiller setup? Also Mercury hydraulic power steering is not available on smaller motors until Jan 2008 check the website! The Mertens system on these bigger motors is available for Yammy too! Many 620 tillers out there with the power steering my friend. And the smart craft is another OPTION the vts is STANDARD for the smaller yammy tillers! Look at both handles if you can't see the difference theirs obviosly a problem. Also who's playing catch up? I have a 06 90 yammy tiller have you looked at a 06 mercury tiller handle? Big Difference
Mr. mskyhntr, what does being a walleye pro have to do with this. Ummm...alot. These guys use there boats a lot. Some of these pros only troll, for an example, Ron Seelhoff. He does this pretty much tournament after tournament. He's had tremendous success. I did not say the Mertens system was not available to Yammies, no where in my post did I say that. I know they are. Personally, having the Smart Craft as an option, is in my opinion better. Some people don't want to pay the $1500-$2500 or whatever it costs for this. Some people just don't have the need nor the desire to pay the extra for it. However, the Smart Craft system does A LOT more than just raise your rpm's in small increments. The Smart Craft system is basically a brain to the outboard. With this system, it can give readouts that only could be known to a mechanic with a hooked up computer to the outboard. Now like what Mr. Worrall stated, you may think the Yammies handle is better, but your one person, not everyone thinks that. I'm partial to Mercury, your obviously partial to Yamaha, nothing wrong with that. But trying to say it's the only motor out there for trolling is wrong. Mercs do a fine job. It's all in preference.
Edited by Merckid 12/5/2007 10:33 AM
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Guest - 12/5/2007 10:19 AM
I never said, "All Pro's", but some pro's do run boats or motor based on the deals they can get with one company over another company.
You are very correct guest. However, I would have to say it has more to do with what circuit the pro is fishing. For example, the FLW tour is sponsored by Evinrude and Yamaha. The PWT is sponsored by Mercury. The guys that fish one or the other have contingencies on the line. Majority, and I mean probably 50-75% of pros receive nothing from these outboard companies. The ones that do are your guys like Keith Kavajecz, Gary Parsons, Gary Roach, and your really big names in the fishing world. Guys run a particular motor on a particular trail because of the contingencies that they can receive for placing in a tournament. For example, on the FLW side, running a Ranger or a G3 with either a Yammy or Evinrude on the back, you qualify for as much as $50,000 more running the proper equipment. That is why guys run certain product, not because there getting checks handed to them by these companies. Very few are in the fishing world. |
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| TJ I never said merc's don't troll ever...shoot I ran a mariner on my old boat trolled fine. But the poster was wondering about a 90hp 4 stroke...last I knew tourney pro's don't run around a lake with a 90hp. plus who would spend 2K on the smart craft system for a small tiller. My dealer charged me 20 bucks to hook up my yammy for a hour check for break in. That's a lot of 20 dollar hook ups to justify 2k for the smart craft system. So for this hp class I think yammy with the vts is the best bang for the buck. this imo. nothing against mercs. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The 90 HP Mercury, to answer the direct question, will troll down very nicely, and is already on the boat if I understand correctly. The Merc will be smooth, quiet, and dependable.
Hntr,
A couple of the PWT and FLW Pros used small tiller over the last few years to be more maneuverable and easier on fuel. Some of the events are not on water that command a larger rig, and the decision to run a small rig didn't hurt a bit and may have helped. I remember Danny Plautz running a 75 Merc 4 stroke (very similar to the 90 Merc), I believe, on a 17' Crestliner, in a PWT event this year. He cashed a check, too, if I remember correctly. Ron Seelhoff has used his smaller rig many times as well.
Comes down to brand loyalty and preference, really.
Seelhoff:
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/rankings_fisherman.asp?fmid=9396&r...
Plautz:
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/rankings_fisherman.asp?fmid=13445&...
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Steve Fellegy has run a Lund Pro-V with a 90 Opti in several events.
Here's some images of Mr. Ron Seelhoff at a PWT running his 75 Merc.
Pros use what is the best rig for the event, sometimes that's a big rig, sometimes it's a smaller rig.
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 Stevie F..JPG (79KB - 232 downloads)
Ronnie.JPG (93KB - 181 downloads)
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| look at the bottom photo...it looks like he has some kind of gear shift extension on the handle for shifting in and out of gear....something yamaha already has right up by the handle along with the vts and the tilt and trim. Look and the handle for pete's sake to features on the handle other than the throttle...like I said yamaha has their tiller handle nailed! |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | ummm...that boat is also 10+ years old. I bet there is options on the Mercs now, if not standard. I'm sure you can get those things just like back in the day. If they made extensions available then, I'm sure they make them available now! Not everyone requires an extension.
Edited by Merckid 12/5/2007 12:11 PM
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| TJ both motors are great running 4 strokes...but the handle is what give the yamaha the edge over everyone else here's a photo lets see that merc handle or any one elses.
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tiller photo.jpg (19KB - 968 downloads)
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'This is a 90 hp. tiller and I do plan on doing some trolling, so the question is this motor as good as the Yamaha as far as being smooth and quiet and dependable or should I stick to the Yamaha?'
Question answered, handle images aside. That answer would be yes on the smooth and quiet issues.
Another consideration; if the 90 HP Mercury is an 'older' model, there's a pretty good chance the powerhead is a Yammy anyway, they used to have a cooperative agreement.
And, unless I am reading this incorrectly, mercury will have exclusive rights to the Enginesteer system, so it may not be avaoilable with any other outboard.
Suzuki has a hydraulic assist handle for their 70 and 90 HP motors, which seems to work well. |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | They've been out awhile John. But now, looks to me Mercury has exclusive rights to the patent for applying power steering to outboard tiller handles. Remember, this is the not only upping Yamaha, it's adding the power steering to ALL models.
http://northamerica.mercurymarine.com/newsandevents/newsdetail.php?...
Mercury Marine to become the exclusive provider of power steering for tiller handle outboard engines
(Oct 02, 2007) -
FOND DU LAC, Wis. - Mercury Marine and EngineSteer have agreed to an arrangement that grants Mercury Marine exclusive rights to the patent for applying power steering to outboard tiller handles.
With this new agreement, Mercury Marine will become the only provider of power steering tiller handles for outboard engines. The power steering system will utilize many common parts currently used with Verado and OptiMax engines such as cylinders, hoses and the power steering pump.
Tim Merten, spokesperson for EngineSteer, believes Mercury Marine will become a dominate player in the (tiller handle) market by offering power steering for large outboard engines.
"EngineSteer is proud to partner with Mercury Marine in bringing this product to the market," Merten said.
This agreement follows another recent announcement. In June, Mercury announced that it will soon begin production of three new tiller handles designed for large outboard engines, including 75-115 hp Mercury FourStroke outboards, 75-250 hp OptiMax outboards and 135-200 hp four-cylinder Verado Digital Throttle & Shift (DTS) outboards.
The new power steering tiller handle allows for adjustable steering pressure with the touch of a finger and has zero engine feedback while steering the boat. A bypass valve allows the outboard to be manually steered when the engine is not running.
"These zero-feedback tiller handles will provide a great advantage to fisherman with large outboard engines," said Mike Reilley, product manager for Mercury Control and Rigging Systems. "We are excited to form this partnership with EngineSteer."
The new tiller handle will be available through any authorized Mercury dealer beginning in January of 2008.
Edited by Merckid 12/5/2007 12:25 PM
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| Still that's no different than me called up Tim Merten and ordering one for my Yamaha. And yes I Can order one |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | mskyhntr - 12/5/2007 12:47 PM
Still that's no different than me called up Tim Merten and ordering one for my Yamaha. And yes I Can order one
Did you not get the memo on that? It does say EXCLUSIVE. You may be able to get it, but it's going to be through a Mercury Dealer my friend.
(Oct 02, 2007) -
FOND DU LAC, Wis. - Mercury Marine and EngineSteer have agreed to an arrangement that grants Mercury Marine EXCLUSIVE rights to the patent for applying power steering to outboard tiller handles.
With this new agreement, Mercury Marine will become the only provider of power steering tiller handles for outboard engines. The power steering system will utilize many common parts currently used with Verado and OptiMax engines such as cylinders, hoses and the power steering pump.
Tim Merten, spokesperson for EngineSteer, believes Mercury Marine will become a dominate player in the (tiller handle) market by offering power steering for large outboard engines.
"EngineSteer is proud to partner with Mercury Marine in bringing this product to the market," Merten said |
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| Just got off the horn with Tim Merten felt the need since so info didn't seem right! Yes they are bought by mercury marine. But yes I can still buy directly through him or other dealers until their gone which should be by spring. What TJ failed to mention is that the other manufactures are also designing theirs as we speak so eventually EVERYBODY will have hydraulic steering available. NOT just mercury which me makes you think. And even if Mercury has theirs available first you think a 2000 option is upping the competition?
Edited by mskyhntr 12/5/2007 1:24 PM
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Didn't say they couldn't design there own. If you think about it, it's probably more cost efficient for Mercury to partner with Tim Merten. Oh, and of course other dealers will have them until there gone. Kinda like people getting other kind of outboards on a Brunswick owned transom until they were gone. But I believe that has changed again. Take a look in a Lund catalog, let me know how many motors aren't black. But, others designing there own, wonder why. Oh, that's right, they can't get there hands on a EngineSteer system. Wouldn't you think that would force them to make there own? |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | John, upping means exceeding in some kind of way. Mercury has exceeded everyone else in the ability to offer the Merten system. Yes, you can buy direct, and or left overs. However, seeing there partnered with Mercury, I guarantee you Tim Merten is not going to be able to give you any better deal or be able to undercut Mercury on cost. Does anyone else have an EngineSteer system available? Ummm...no, only if you buy direct or find a left over. |
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| If you say so remember we are talking about a 90 horse here.....I don't know to many people who have trouble steering it....even without the power steering. A friend of mine is 65 says its a sinch to steer. A money wasted option in my opinion on a 90 that is....and remember he is already looking at a boat with a merc on it so NO power steering and no smart gauges. So the yammy still looks to be the better tiller at this TIME! |
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