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| I'm looking at getting a new graph next year.
The Humminbird units with the side imaging look very cool, and they have me intrigued.
Anybody use one? Pros? Cons? |
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Location: Stevens Point, Wi. | Try getting in touch with Al Warner ( esox maniac). I believe he has one . |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | I am buying one this winter, no question about it.
I have been researching it a whole bunch lately, and have hit the Google group and the "unofficial" Humminbird Side Imaging website:
http://www.xumba.scholleco.com/
They have two units now, but a large (10.4") unit is due to be released in February 2008. They are pricey, but so is everything else on your boat...
I think I am going to buy the 997SI unit--perhaps at one of the musky shows this winter.
TB |
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Location: Waconia, MN | Luke, I have one. It's great, and I still haven't used all the functions yet. I Haven't had anything bad happen to it yet, so the CONS, I don't have. Hit me up, if you wanna know more. thanks |
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| I have been using them since day one and do quite a bit of training with them. give me a shout anytime and I can give you the scoop on a bunch of tricks like scanning the water with the side imaging and marking a spot off to the side with the gps. They are impressive and now for 08 the big screen will be available! 10.4"
Troy
920-810-4570 |
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| tricks like scanning the water with the side imaging and marking a spot off to the side with the gps.
this is a very cool and useful feature of that unit. not just "gee whiz" but has some real application for muskie fishing and marking spots on structure, baitfish location on breaks or suspended, etc.
i can do that on my Humminbird 917 now, but only with stuff that's in my sonar cone below the boat. the side imaging obviously gives you a bigger side-to-side range to be able to do this.
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Hi - I've got the Humminbird 997SI - I've had it since ~ June 1st and am still learning to use it. It's not cheap. But, I believe it's well worth the money.
Especially if you don't know the lake. Even if you think you know the lake you might be surprised! I can see stuff/structure/fish in one sweep that would take 100's of hour's to figure out with a conventional sonar.
You do have to learn how to use it, but I think it only get's better. Being an electronics/electrical engineer, I've already got a killer suggestion for Humminbird.
Here's a few shot's with my interpretation of what you're seeing.
#7 - This a shot from our late June Canadian trophy walleye hunt. During the trip the mayfly hatches were on. So the daytime walleye bite was nonexistant. We were coming back to camp from chasing pike & lakers when we came across this same area headed in for supper. There were zero fish showing. After supper at sunset we headed back out to chase some walleyes. We were still within sight of camp. There's a spine coming off from the north side of an island which you can just see in the lower right corner. That's ~ a 70' breakline on that spine tip. The interesting part are the stack of fish and bait in the deep water off the spine. These are walleye's (big walleye's). I hit the mark button. we set the planer boards out w/ floating 16cm Zam's ~ 50-60 ft behind the planer. Turned the boat and came back over the spot, fish on (27"), get everything back out turn back to the spot (29"), repeat, repeat, repeat, ...... all fish 22" or larger, the biggest that evening was my 29".
Look at the fish behind the left side screen data, also the bait fish and the stuff at the bottom. That's why I hit the mark button. I believe stuff at the bottom is the fly hatch. Yes, there were mayflies popping to the surface in 76 FOW.
The next are from the PI outing.
#10 - This is one of Landy's spot's on Clear. Landy-you guy's went back over there while Spencer and I were out on the hump at the end of the day. Those are log's and a fish crib on slope of the 12' breakline in the left view - the right view is toward shore (shallow flat)
The center double white line is the surface at the boat. The next line out from the center on each side is the bottom. The fuzzy stuff coming off the bottom is weeds- you can see them in the sonar split on the left. The fish crib is the rectangular thing about 2/3'ds of the way down in the left side scan immage.
#15 - This spot is well known to a particular north woods guide. The breakline edge you see in the right image is ~40FOW. The three shadowy objects are trees - not logs. If you look closely at the slope in the right image you can see some small white streaks- those are fish, i.e., either walleye's or smallies.
#16 The same spot going the other way (180deg).
#19 A very good example of what you miss with regular sonar. That small spot in the left side scan image has fish all over it. A couple are probably pretty decent. The lower left one (longest) might be a muskie on the deep water edge of that spot.
No- you can't have the GPS coordinates!
Oh yeah- if you lost a 15' section of dock, Bruce Beam & I know where it's at. It's sitting on the bottom in ~15FOW on the west side of a well known bar.
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 11/14/2007 9:44 PM
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Excellent post Al, although I only see two images...
But your textual story convinces me that I am making the correct decision in terms of buying one of these units. I have a spot picked out for it on the console!
EDIT: Now I have all the images. Wow...great post.
TB
Edited by tcbetka 11/14/2007 1:19 PM
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| That's amazing technology!!!! |
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Posts: 284
| I must be an idiot I have no idea what i am looking at in these pictures my Dad has one he uses out on michigan for salmon and has tried to explain it to me but I am still lost. If the center white line is the surface and the next one out is the bottom. How does all the other stuff end up beyond the bottom? Maybe if I do this I can explain what I think is being show and you all can tell me how wrong I am. I took the last picture and cut off the left side. Then flipped it so that the boat is on the top and the bottom on the bottom. Is this now showing me what I'd see if I was a scuba diver x feet away looking at the boat
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Location: Green Bay, WI | You are thinking in the wrong plane... Think of the center line as the track of the boat, not the surface. It *is* the surface, but don't think of it that way at first. Think of it as the boat being at the top of the screen, but don't think of the side imaging as just down looking--it also looks out to the sides of the boat.
Check out this site:
http://www.sideimaging.com/
...and click on the "Understanding Side Imaging" option on the left side of the screen. This is a good overview of how the images are generated.
In textual terms, as the boat moves forward across the surface of the water, a special transducer (usually on the transom) looks out to each side of the boat, at angles from almost 180 degrees out to the sides, down to almost right under the boat. So you are cutting a "sonar swath" through the water (the width of which depends upon the water depth--the deeper the water, the wider the swath), and the display shows the structure to either side. You can also just select one side to view at a time. It works just like regular sonar does; whatever returns are captured back at the transducer get sent back to the unit. The software then puts all those returns together and displays a semi-3D image.
The reason it looks a bit confusing might be because they always show the boat at the top of the screen, with a full screen's worth of data below. But you don't see *how* that came to be. When you start out the screen will fill (from bottom to top) with the side images as the boat travels forward. When you have gone far enough across the water to generate a full screen worth of data, the screen will be filled.
You just have to look at the images a while, and it will start to make sense. I was confused at first as well--because it's not like traditional sonar. However you can also display traditional sonar images (straight down) right along with the side image data.
In summary, while the boat is on the water's surface, the images you see below it on the screen are showing you a "side view" of the water you've just covered to either side of the boat. Check out the links I have posted, and just look at the images. There are very good explanations of what the images show in the photo section of that site I referenced in my previous post.
When I first started looking at these units, I thought I would never spend that much money (the 997SI is nearly $2000) without being in someone's boat while they were using it. But after looking at them in stores and studying the images on these sites for the past 2 months, I have no concerns whatsoever. I figure I have limited time to fish a HUGE area (Green Bay), so anything I can do to maximize efficiency will pay dividends in the end.
TB |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | THIS is exactly why MuskieFIRST encourages open discussion about products with no 'that stuff sucks, this stuff doesn't' themes. A couple threads back there was a question about the side imaging and some of the answers were less than informative. LOOK at those images, just plain stunning. Al, thanks for posting the images, Sue just said I can have one of these... |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | TB- Thanks for the a additional stuff. I didn't want to overwhelm the thread with a extremely lengthy post- I should have pointed out the little boat symbol at the top is the current boat position. As Lambeau stated you can get a relative position of all the objects you have passed. If you want to go back to any object hit mark - this saves a snap shot of the screen and enters a way point. Then pull up the GPS screen- If you go to cursor mode and place the cursor on the object or on the waypoint it will tell you precisely how far and which direction you need to steer.
f.ex. Spencer had a ~46" fish up on the leeward side of a hump in windy conditions. I hit mark when he said "fish, about 46". My trolling motor batteries were to low to allow us to hold on the spot. So I used the cursor mode to position the boat ~100' away on the windward side. Dropped my anchor & started letting out rope until we were directly on the spot. See the PI Outing tread for more details of that encounter.
All I can honestly say is what I know for fact. I'd spend the money again. Cost for me was ~$2400. I didn't shop around because I wanted a local source (Gander MTN in LaCrosse) They were great at keeping me updated on my order. Hummindird had a order backlog. SI Unit + Navonics Premium preloaded +weathersense + a high speed transducer (mounted in the bildge) & switch to switch between the SI transducer and the high speed.. Get the big screen- I looked at the smaller ones at Cabela's in Praire Du Chien. The new screen should be even better.
Oh yeah- I forget to mention it- The stuff on that spot in #19 is weeds, probably cabbage, i.e., you can tell by the length of the dark shadows they make. My guess is that they are probably 4-6' tall. Next trip to Clear, that spot is getting worked over heavy.
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 11/15/2007 9:33 AM
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Location: Madison, WI | Oh man the clarity on those shots are absolutely amazing! Thanks for taking to time to post Al. |
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| ESOX Maniac - 11/15/2007 9:19 AM
a high speed transducer (mounted in the bildge) & switch to switch between the SI transducer and the high speed.. Get the big screen- I looked at the smaller ones at Cabela's in Praire Du Chien. The new screen should be even better.
Do you need to run multiple transducers? Can the SI transducer still read down sonar at relatively high speeds?
Edited by BALDY 11/15/2007 9:29 AM
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Baldy- Yes, if you want high speed sonar operation. The SI transducer has to be mounted on the transon. It's much bigger than a traditional transducer, and obviously more expensive so I wouldn't mount it low enough to catch undisturbed water. The high speed kit- switch + transducer is ~$120. My SI transducer is mounted centered ~6" above the bottom edge of the hull and is relatively protected by the jack plate & motor. I can get ~7-9 mph with the SI before I get interferance from bubbles, etc.
Here's what rock looks like on the SI.
#4 is another rock spine off an island from our Canadian trip, in fact this one is ~ 200 yds long with multiple humps/spots. It ends in about 60-70FOW. I was running right down the spine. The reason I saved this shot was the bait fish stacked on the top of this hump /spot-on-the spot. What's really interesting to me is the location's of the fish relative to the bait & structure. The bait show's in the SI image as the cloudy looking stuff ~ 3/4 of the way down SI image, i.e., in the under the water column section of the view. They also show up in the sonar image as being right at the crest of the hump- look right by the number 2 in the depth reading. I really like this split screen setup when I'm searching structure. There are fish on both front & rear slopes, but the larger fish are in the upper right quadrant ~100' from the top of the hump. Where would you start fishing?
#6 This is another rock spine coming off a a relatively straight shoreline with a fast break to ~40'. The shoreline is actually ~100 feet to the left of the left SI image- deep water 70-80FOW is off the right of the right SI image. The interesting thing here is again a spot-on-the spot. Look at the pod of baitfish showing in the left SI image of the water column. Then also check out the fish on this little spine on a spine. Where would you start fishing? I went up shore turned out came back with the left planer board right over the spot - guess which planer got hit?
Two years before we were wacking big walleyes here at night w/ planer boards & Zam's. Yeah I could see the spine on my Eagle then, i.e., when I went across it. But now I have very different image of that spine.
I think Lambeau put it pretty well - this is not just gee whiz technology. This is the future of sonar fishing tools. This thing has drastically improved my ability to find structure, fish, and even to target specific fish. Here's another good shot.
#9. This I believe is a shot of my 15yr old nephew Brandon's second 41" northen caught on this trip.
We were just coming out of this bay after fishing the cabbage for northern's & walleyes. yes we were catching fish but nothing big. The bay opens up and has an average depth of ~7-9 feet w lot's of cabbage and a couple of small islands. In fact it's called Jackfish Bay. This shot shows the saddle across the entrance, it's only about 100' wide with this little patch of cabbage. What caught my attention was the long white mark in the lower left SI image. I realized this had to be pretty good fish. so we went out of the bay & turned back, I had Brandon set the right planer board about 75' out & the left rod just flat lining off the left side in the Down Easter. I then ran the reverse track, and when the Zam was almost to the weeds I put the boat in neutral and let the Zam come to the surface, when I felt it was clear of the weeds I put her back into gear at ~4mph. When that Zam came through the spot, the board went down- fish on! Brandon thought he had a ~24in'r on until she exploded on the surface. His second 41" x 17" fish in the boat & a very happy boy. His uncle was pretty happy too.
His dad (Bill) put it pretty well the night we were catching those walleyes in #6 in my previous post. He said: "You know Al, this almost doesn't seem fair, but it's sure fun!".
Have fun!
Al
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Good stuff Al, very good stuff...
In that second picture, I see the baitpod as a bunch of white dots slightly left of the centerline halfway up the screen (even with the number "30"), but is that the predator higher up and to the right of the centerline? Is that what you were referring to?
The GIF files reproduce these images as a bit blurry, but I think that's what I see. The actual screen view on the unit is fantastic! The baitpod is about halfway up the screen, just to the left of center--and the larger white (vertical) mark near the top of the right side of the screen must be a larger fish. Is this what you were talking about putting your planer over? The reason I ask is that there seem to be a couple smaller white lines across from the big white mark, on the left side of the screen (nearly even with the number "15". But I am thinking those two might just be structure, as they are sort of "squiggly" lines, whereas the larger white mark near the upper right-hand corner is quite straight.
I bet the 1197SI will be an incredible unit!
Thanks.
TB
Edited by tcbetka 11/15/2007 6:19 PM
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | What is the photo # you are refering too?
Al |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | #6 Al, sorry...lol.
TB |
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Location: Kronenwetter, WI | Pretty amazing stuff...and this is the first generation of side imaging technology? What are these images going to look like as the technology develops over the next few years? Photos/Videos? |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | TB- I hope this looks OK- The red arrows are fish. The floating log- I'm not sure what it is, but it's at least 20' long. It could be really sharp edge rock section. Those are the only reasons I can think of that it is so white. I hope this helps.
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 11/15/2007 9:35 PM
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Location: Green Bay, WI | OK Al, got it. The individual fish are somewhat hard to see in those pictures. The GIF images are grainy on the internet--and people should realize that the actual screen on the unit is ultra clear. Those displays are awesome.
I have been wondering though, if it wouldn't be best to simply wait for the 1197SI to be released in February (reported release date) and give that a serious look. It will cost about $6-700 more than the 997SI does, though maybe they will lower the price on the 997 some when the big unit comes out?
TB
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | TB - Yeah, I understand, the actual files are 1 meg bit maps. So I have to resize & save as gif's to get them under the MF 200kB limit.
BTW- I got a Lexar 4GB card for mine, i.e., I didn't want to have to worry about storage. Some of the other users suggested using smaller/cheap cards. I'm going to try the smaller cards next- 1 card per lake type of thing.
Here's another tree laying on the slope of a hump.
I've only been using this thing for ~ 12 fishing days total, i.e., actual time on the water is probably 100hrs. My next excursion is Petenwell, maybe this weekend. I'll post some more images if I see anything interesting.
It'll be interesting to see the new 1197SI. Besides the larger screen, I wonder what new features they have in it? If I were shopping again, I'd probably wait to see it.
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 11/16/2007 1:40 PM
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Location: Kronenwetter, WI | Since the dark area on either side of the boat's track is the image from the traditional cone, it stands to reason that the wider the dark band--larger area of cone coverage, would indicate great depth? In other words as the boat moves into deeper water the dark 'cone zone' would become wider...yes? |
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| this may seem like a silly question and maybe it is answered above or something but I didn't take the time to read all the stuff....why can't Humminbird "flip" the image on the screen so it's horizontal and not sideways to make it easier to interpret/read? Is that a feature or option with these units? Sorry, every time i look at those images I want to turn my head and it just seems weird to me they can't put the image on the screen like it is in the water???!! know what I mean...?
anyone else think the same thing...? |
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Location: Kronenwetter, WI | I just got done watching a bunch of videos off the hummingbird site:
http://www.sideimaging.com/
I'm not sure how you are thinking about the imaging, but check out this link theres alot of info there.
I'm sold but not loaded with $$....just looked on ebay the 997c's are starting at 1600 each.... |
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| BN - yes I know what you mean, however, if you think of the picture as off to the "side" and try my little exercise it may help. Picture yourself at the wheel looking at the screen and either mentally or actually make your arms stick out to the sides - while looking at the screen. When you can visualize what is going on the way it is show it will be much clearer. It is alot like reading your current graph and realizing that the "new" info is coming from the right and not the left. A eureka moment that does not happen right away but comes with experience. I recall my first "fish finder/depth finder" and how I really couldn't do anything but look at it as a literal display of fish or depth....an accomplished "fish finder/depth finder" reader can tell you so much more right? Bottom composition, thermoclines, of course fish etc. An almost psychic ability begins to emerge as a person gets really comfortable with their graphs. Now think of the "side imaging" that way for a minute and realize it is a whole new learning curve. My point is that if you struggle, back up and take a deep breath and come back at it with a fresh perspective - when you "see" it clearly the first time you will be floored.
Also, I think that the screen shots that show only one side image i.e. either left or right are much harder to interpret than having both sides up and using the black vertical line as a mental cue that the line is the boat. Practice makes perfect and after awhile I think that side imaging will be a must have if it isn't already.
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| yah, I went to that side imaging website and that helped my "visualizing" of what was on the screen..I think the best thing for me to do is get in the boat with someone that has one on waters I know and go play with it...my luck I'll love it and have to splurge on a couple units...
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| I am looking at purchasing an earlier model, not sure of the number but I think it is a 800 series. I was told it was one of the first models. It is a really good price but I'm leary of it being such an early model. Does anyone have one of these and what features would I be giving up with this model vs. a newer one. Is it best that I just save up and get a new one? The price is less than half a new one and it has never seen a boat yet.
Need advice??? |
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| You guys are to get me in hot water! Now I have to get one. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!
I have been on the fence, but after reading this very informative and helpfull post just clinched it. |
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