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Posts: 11
Location: Wisconsin | My fishing partners and I will drag a sucker as we cast while moving around the lake with the electric motor, as I assume many of you do. We typically fish on "trolling leagal" waters. would this method be considered trolling, therefore illegal on non-trolling waters in northern Wi? We are not looking to bend the rules. If it is against the law, we won't do it.
Thanks,
Mike |
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Posts: 2894
Location: Yahara River Chain | What you just described is trolling. Using the trolling motor to go around the lake dragging a sucker is trolling. The only way you can use a trolling motor on non-trolling lakes in WI is if you are drifting and need to make small corrections in your drift. This is considered "positioning" fishing which is allowed. |
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Posts: 176
Location: Tomahawk, WI | Here we go again. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | yup, here we go again!
I use suckers in the fall but mine are straight down over the side of the boat with 1-2 oz of lead to keep the line vertical...I'll continue to do it that way whether I get a ticket or not... now the guys with 3 -4 out on bobbers dragging them around...I think they are askin for it! |
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Posts: 32924
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I think Brad nailed it. |
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Posts: 176
Location: Tomahawk, WI | I agree. Hope this ends it. If you want to view all the arguments, go look in the archives. |
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Posts: 1086
| Interesting topic. One that I haven't seen in the years past...and for the reason that I say that is, I don't see nor read all topics all the time on this board due to time limitations.
I'm in Indiana, where we don't have the trolling limitations/laws that the Wisc. folks do.
If it's not too painful and not too much trouble, and without stepping on anyones toes and not to bring up a topic again that appears to have been talked about a lot and probably beaten like a dead horse...I'm asking in a kind way, for my, as well as others, education...what's the difference if there's a sucker straight down under a boat and you're moving around the lake vs. a sucker straight down beneath a bobber that's 20-30 feet behind the boat and you're moving around?
I'm afraid I'm opening up some past dead issues. I apologize for that in advance since that seems to be the case.
Just seems odd that there's a difference of that boat being beneath the boat vs. being beneath a bobber? Is the number of suckers under bobbers the culprit?
Just curious. |
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Posts: 176
Location: Tomahawk, WI | Mack, sorry if i came off negative, but you are correct, the topic was beat to death. I believe the conclusion was, it would be up to your friendly local game warden if it is considered trolling or not. People have contacted thier game wardens with conflicting answers. |
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Posts: 5874
| I have the same stance as Brad. Imagine that!
The difference is that the law is written that your line must be verticle where it enters the water in order for it to be considered position fishing.
You can find a lot of discussion on this if you do a search here. Stupid rule and poorly written. It all depends on the warden you contact. Some will say if you have a sucker and TM in the water, you're trolling, and they will write the citation. I'd take it to court and win it. |
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Posts: 1086
| Not a problem. Trust me...I know what it's like to constantly rehash the same topics over and over and over again on here with new people coming on to the board everyday wanting to ask the same questions that have been covered numerous times.
What I find to be a challenge when looking in the archives for certain topics, such as this, it's tough to find what you're looking for, unless the topic of the thread has the keyword or you're able to have a very, defined word to search for to find what you're looking for so that it helps minimize the number of found results. Sometimes...I find that topic I'm often looking for have been buried within another thread that started off as a totally different subject, hence, it can be time consuming going the route of the archives.
No worries. Thanks for the short, sweet, simple explanation. That's all that was needed.
Sounds like such a fine line up there. I'm glad we don't have those limitations and restrictions down here. I'm sorry those that are up there in those areas, do.
Carry on. All's good.... |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | I have discussed this with various DNR personel including the Warden Supervisor for Oneida County.
The actual position fishing law states that you may use a trolling motor to move about a piece of structure while maintaining a vertical line most of the time.
What does that mean? First off it means no floats. If you are using a float or bobber if you will, while also using your trolling motor you are by definition trolling. The bobber at that point is no different than a planer board.
If you use the tactic Brad outlined above you are legal, as long as you maintain a vertical line most of the time. You are allowed to stray from vertical occasionally, but the line must be vertical most of the time. To accomplish this you must slow way down, and fish areas very methodically.
To legally fish suckers on nontrolling lakes you need to lose the bobbers and maintain a vertical line while working slowly about structures. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | Norm...or use lots of weight! I think some of my bell sinkers are 2.5 oz and those suckers stay down!
I can't wait to hear the first clicker go off of the season....guys that don't fish w/ suckers or don't like it sure are missin some fun stuff!
click click click clickkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
I've seen some guys from IL (no not pickin on IL guys) on a lake I fish that had no less than 3 bobbers out...they are using quick strikes and do release the fish and seem like nice guys but part of me wants to call the warden on them...what would you guys do?
Edited by MSKY HNR 10/23/2007 10:01 AM
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | I've already been in that situation this year Brad. They too were from IL. So I simply said, sir, you are trolling, trolling is illegal in Wisconsin. He got a bit upset and tried to say he was position fishing. I said sir, no, not when your trolling motor is on constant. He proceeded the way he was going until I said sir, I have the warden on speed dial, I don't have an issue making the call. He quit pretty quickly.
But if I were you Brad, a simple reminder to them first, if they don't listen, then take further action. You can always call the warden, and the warden should keep confidentiality. Or just call the DNR tip line. |
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Posts: 8824
| Brad, I'd call the warden. They probably have no idea that what they are doing is illegal, but still. You don't want to ruin anyone's day, but if they're dragging suckers around on bobbers like you described, they ARE trolling. |
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Posts: 5193
| It is trolling and like someone said some game wardens might write you a ticket.Bill |
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Posts: 1086
| nwild - 10/23/2007 9:52 AM
I have discussed this with various DNR personel including the Warden Supervisor for Oneida County.
The actual position fishing law states that you may use a trolling motor to move about a piece of structure while maintaining a vertical line most of the time.
What does that mean? First off it means no floats. If you are using a float or bobber if you will, while also using your trolling motor you are by definition trolling. The bobber at that point is no different than a planer board.
If you use the tactic Brad outlined above you are legal, as long as you maintain a vertical line most of the time. You are allowed to stray from vertical occasionally, but the line must be vertical most of the time. To accomplish this you must slow way down, and fish areas very methodically.
To legally fish suckers on nontrolling lakes you need to lose the bobbers and maintain a vertical line while working slowly about structures.
Great explanation. Thanks! :thumbsup: |
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Posts: 578
Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | .
Edited by C_Nelson 6/7/2008 8:53 AM
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | Here is the actual definition of position fishing from the DNR regulations.
“Position fishing” is fishing from a boat where the fishing line extends vertically into the
water while the boat is maneuvered (forwards or backwards) by a motor used to position
or maintain the position of the boat over underwater structure. Position fishing is allowed
statewide in all waters
To be in the spirit of the position fishing laws the line needs to extend vertically into the water, impossible when dragging a bobber.
While the results are basically the same, the bobber does make it by definition illegal.
Edited by nwild 10/23/2007 10:27 AM
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Posts: 1086
| Do I dare ask what you are or are not allowed to do in WI in regards to using the drift from the wind to move you down a breakline or across a weed flat, all the while, soaking a sucker, on a down rod, directly beneath the boat all the while casting? That allowed?
I love using the wind to drift fish if the wind is blowing out of the right direction to allow you to move your boat down a particular breakline or structure area...
What's the law on using the wind for boat movement? |
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Posts: 32924
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Chuck, Norm is correct. Use a bobber and pull it along, and the definition goes from position fishing to trolling, as stupid as that seems. |
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Posts: 578
Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | .
Edited by C_Nelson 6/7/2008 8:54 AM
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| I just wish we could drag suckers. In Mn you can only have one line in per person. I need to cast!!! Once in a while when my son is with he will take a break and drag one. But he is in school again, just at prime time!! How mad do you think mom would be if he were to play....hooky .? Good luck out there!
Clint |
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Posts: 5874
| Chuck, you will lose that arguement with some wardens. Hope you don't meet up with a Cletus type Warden. His position was, "If you are hunting or fishing, you are doing something illegal. It's my job to figure out what that is." Not saying you won't win in court, but you don't win arguements in the field. Don't ask me how I know 3 times.
As for driffting, no problem. Put out your bobbers. Just make sure they are pulled before you use that TM. Remember the verticle line thing.
As for calling a Warden? I wouldn't. Why bring attention to your lake, and potentially you. Threaten to call, maybe. But unless they are really doing something bad, like over harvesting, or poaching, spearing, etc, I would leave it alone. Just my issues with avoiding Warden contact.
My own experience is that I catch more fish with the sucker next to the boat than I do when using bobbers out behind the boat. Just me, but muskies aren't skeert of the boat, so why go through all the hassle of trying to get baits away from it?
Edited by Shep 10/23/2007 2:37 PM
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Posts: 1086
| Shep - 10/23/2007 2:34 PM
Hope you don't meet up with a Cletus type Warden. His position was, "If you are hunting or fishing, you are doing something illegal. It's my job to figure out what that is."
You know...it's really unfortunate that that most likely is the case with most C.O.s/Wardens. Such a bummer. I mean...every time I'm in my boat and every New Year, at the start of the year, I always go through my checklist to make sure I've dotted my "i's" and crossed my "t's" to make sure I'm in compliance with anything and everything that I can think of as to NOT be doing anything wrong. I always obey speed limits and lake rules, lines per person rules, everyone in my boat having a license, having my DNR State Park permit on my hull along with the boat reg numbers clearly visible with contrasting colors from my hull with my annual reg sticker, carry the necessary lights, fire extinguisher, the number of life jackets to the numbers of people that my boat is C.G. regulated for, flares and flare gun, yada, yada, yada, yada...I could go on.
It's sad that people C.O.s and Wardens out there will go out of their way to nitpick those of us that put and honest effort into our passionate sport, yet, could probably find some, small, "red tape" b.s. type of a thing to ruin our day, month, year, season etc.
I can't tell you how many times I see others out there blatantly doing stuff wrong that visible from clear across a lake....yet...it's those of us that try....get "harrassed."
Fortunately, knock on wood, I haven't had any issues....yet.... |
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Posts: 32924
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Oh for crap's sake, now we are going to complain about law enforcement 'harassment'? I spend quite a bit of time in the woods and on the water, and have never been what I would call harassed. Checked, yes, and for what I SHOULD be checked for. That's about it. Obey the law...no worries nit pick or not. Openly challenge the law as some apparently wish to, and you got no complaint when you get a citation.
Get 'into' it all you wish Chuck, Shep's dead on with the 'vertical line' interpretation. Is it a good law? No. Does it make any sense to bar us from trolling up here? No. But Lord save anyone who tries to get any of that changed. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | I agree with Steve, I've never had any bad run in's with wardens. If you are friendly to them, they will treat you the same way. Ask them how the day is going, what they have observed etc...it will get you a long way. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | I agree that one needs to be careful to have lines vertical. I pick and choose the lakes to use floats on now.
As far as harrassment, it happens on occasion and those are the ones we remember. Dad and I were harrassed so vehemently by a local warden and his Sheriffs deputy friend last winter that it prompted us to write letters to their supervisors(made us feel better anyhow even if they didn't read them). They accused me of too many lines out, berated me for such, searched my property, criminalizing my every step. Then, when they finally realized the 4th tipup they had counted, was another guy who was set up a couple hundred yards from me, they walked away. That happened to several people on Petenwell and surrounding waters over the past couple years, and a few threads were started on various ice fishing sites regarding such. I hate to complain but just wanted to say that both sides of the coin get flipped on occasion.
In the warden in questions defense, I would guess he has somewhat quelled the renegade nature we witnessed by now.
Edited by Reef Hawg 10/25/2007 4:44 PM
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Posts: 32924
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | So does murder and mayhem, but it's not the norm. |
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Posts: 578
Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | .
Edited by C_Nelson 6/7/2008 8:55 AM
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Posts: 11
Location: Wisconsin | My encounters with wardens have always been fine and I plan on keeping it that way. As stated in my original post, we're not looking for loopholes. If you're not supposed to do it, we won't. Thanks for the input everyone.
Mike |
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