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Posts: 5874
| Seriously. I was accused of being a Muskie Elitist by somone on WalleyeFirst, Yesterday. All because I mentioned the guy that killed 6 BIG muskies this past fall, and that because of it, I would not fish his bar walleye tourney.
While I acknowledged his right to kill the fish, and stated that I did not begrudge him keeping the 58" fish he caught, I did question why he had to kill the other 5. Especially because we are in the age of graphite reproductions that are cheaper, and look much better than the skin mounts.
The answer I got from a potential future member of the C&R Musky(That is Catch & RELEASE Musky Club, in case he didn't know what he is wanting to be part of) was that I am a Musky Elitist, and that it is the guys right to kill legal fish.
Then when I defended why I brought this up, I was accused of having a me attitude, and that I was jealous. When somebody defended my support for the fishery and increased size limits, the post got dusted.
So, Am I a Muskie Elitist? I say not by a long shot! |
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Posts: 1769
Location: Algonquin, ILL | Shep: See I told you so , You are just a Trouble Maker, How Dare you question someone keeping 6 Muskie's in a season we all know that Muskie's eat all the Walleye's, Crappies, and Bluegills in a lake and that's why Joe Fisherman can no longer go out and catch 50 Crappies a day, or limit out on Walleye's everyday, so keeping those 6 Muskies is actually helping the Lake(s).
So Yes you are an ELITIST you actually care about our rescources, just treat some of these guys like Teeth" Ignore them and they will go away"
Have a great season, Hope to see ya on the water
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Posts: 154
Location: Appleton, WI | The good news Shep is we are full, so hopefully we stay elitist!!! |
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Posts: 224
Location: Madison | Shep - 5/22/2007 7:56 AM
Especially because we are in the age of graphite reproductions
That's the part I don't understand with guys who keep fish. Why kill a fish when you can get a replica for no extra cost? It makes zero sense.
I imagine some of the guys who keep fish think the repros might be more expensive so it's an education issue with some people. But there are certainly people who know better who still elect to keep fish for whatever reason. Why? |
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Posts: 5874
| The guy is a taxidermist. Go figure. |
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Posts: 29
| First of all, I have never kept a muskie that I have caught (I was always going to keep my first 30 pounder but have caught a couple and released them all). Maybe there will be a size fish I would keep someday.
Anyway, I keep reading that reproductions cost the same as skin mounts. I don't believe that at all. I am holding a brochure from the taxidermist that is doing my deer head from bowhunting last fall and it says that he does muskies for $6.50/inch. I am also logged into the Ron Lax site at this time and a 1-sided mount of a muskie is $12.00/in. On a 50 inch fish the difference in cost is $275.00 at these rates ($600-$325). The only point of my post is that I just don't see how so many people can say the cost is the same. Sorry for getting off the topic of the original post. |
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I've never met a taxidermist the does any fish for $6.50 and inch, so I think you are not being fair in your comparison.
The last fish I had skin mounted was a Brown Trout, and 10 years ago it was $8 an inch.
I would think if you check around, you would find that costs are very comparable.
As far as the term "muskie elitist", it's been thrown around so many times, and many times on this website, that it really has no meaning whatsoever.
It's what people nail you with whenever you don't agree with them.
JS
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Posts: 618
Location: Bloomington, MN | Ron Lax and Joe Fittante are artists. I'm sure Mr. $6.50/inch's work is not even in the same ball park.
Edited by Clark A 5/22/2007 10:18 AM
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Posts: 8781
| Shep
If I had to choose between being called a "muskie elitist" by someone whose profession and my ideals didn't necessarily agree, or being called "that $^%& who kills every muskie he catches" by the people I respect and whom I choose to associate myself with?
Guess which one would allow me to sleep better at night? 
It's been my observation that a lot of people throw around a lot of negative labels at people they don't understand, be it calling someone a musy elitist, a cheesehead, FIB (that's me!) or any one of a hundred different things...
In the end nobody is any better or worse than anyone else... |
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Posts: 412
Location: Waukesha, WI |
Seriously. I was accused of being a Muskie Elitist by somone on WalleyeFirst, Yesterday. All because I mentioned the guy that killed 6 BIG muskies this past fall, and that because of it, I would not fish his bar walleye tourney.
A choice.
While I acknowledged his right to kill the fish, and stated that I did not begrudge him keeping the 58" fish he caught, I did question why he had to kill the other 5. Especially because we are in the age of graphite reproductions that are cheaper, and look much better than the skin mounts.
C&R Advocate
Advocate versus elitist. You can be a C&R advocate without being an elitist.
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Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | That's what you get for hanging out with those walleye guys. heh heh heh |
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Posts: 3147
| Im TOO good to be a conceded elitist
Edited by happy hooker 5/22/2007 12:24 PM
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Shep,
I missed this whole thing! Elitist you are not. |
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Location: Sun Prairie, WI | Personally, I C&R everything. From panfish to piggies, it goes back. It's just my choice. I have always fished that way. I don't look at it as being elitist or as anything at all except letting someone else have the fun I just had while landing a fish.
What bothers me more than someone keeping a hawg of a musky is someone keeping one that is barely legal. I would never question them or bring it up to them as long as what they did was within the rules. I did see someone keep a 34" musky last year that was legal, however I don't know the circumstance as to why it was kept. He was fishing for Walleye at the time. Maybe he gut hooked it and killed it, maybe he had never caught a musky and wanted to show it off. Perhaps he just wanted it out of the water thinking it was possibly eating all his Walleye, I don't know, nor would I ever call him on it. It's his choice not mine. I don't agree with it, but it's still his choice. I wouldn't get all over someone while jumping to conclusions. Unless I know the facts, I just move along.
Edited by gtp888 5/22/2007 1:11 PM
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Posts: 1270
| I would be a fraid to see what you get for $6.50 an inch! I have two 32" walleyes ath the taxidermist right now that are running $11.50 an inch, you might be able to find a cheaper mount but you won't find one any better and will have to look VERY hard to find one as good as this guy does fish.
Just out of curiosity would you still consider Lax or Fitante taxidermists? They are artists for sure but since they are not actually mounting any part of the fish are they still taxidermists? |
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Posts: 224
Location: Madison | I was under the impression that anyone could order a repro and paint it if they so choose. Is that right? So, what's to stop a guy who's been doing skin mounts for years to order one and paint it? As far as painting it goes, isn't it pretty much the same thing?
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Good painters are good at both.
My graphite was the 1st muskie repro that my taxidermist ever did. It looks great.
He's an award winning taxidermist, and has done dozens of muskie skin mounts.
He claims graphites are actually easier to paint, you just have to be a good painter period.
JS |
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | "It's what people nail you with whenever you don't agree with them. "
Its not so much that John as its what people nail you with when they dont have an intelligent argument to make.
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Posts: 29
| I googled up a few taxidermists (in WI where the other were that I saw) and it does look like the price runs around $10.00 or so for a skin mount and 12.00 to 13.00 for repro. I guess I stand corrected. Again, I wasn't saying anything except for the fact that this one guy was so much cheaper.
One quetion though, do the guys that do repro's really have every size available to the quarter inch to get it to match a measurement like if it was a skin mount? I agree that the repros look awesome but some that I've seen next to tha picture of the real fish look so different. I'm not starting anything, just curious. I caught a fifty incher last year that was all scarred up (probably from spawning), and with the real skin mount, I'm assuming those scars would be very visable. Would they also with the repro? I'm assuming they would be but the repro's I see all look so clean and perfect. Do any of you have one with some "character" marks on them? |
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| I think we spend too much time looking into other people's yards these days... |
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | Shep, you got guts and speek your opinion. I love ya for that. I guess I fall into your catagory. Proud to be here with you pal.
As for the repo's. The price is getting very close to the same. A skin mount is not perfect and will not stay exactly the way it looks when you bring it home after a few years. A repo will never shrink or change because it is not skin and bones. I believe a great artist can now get a mount so close to the real thing that it's just better to go with a replaca. Every year they are getting better and better.
Why is it that everyone keeps talking about it's the anglers choice? I agree it is. But is it fair to all the other fishermen who work so hard to catch their trophy to not have the cance to catch the fish you killed. Now days you don't have to kill a fish to preserve the memory. I have 4 replacas on my walls from 3 different artists. People can't believe they are fake. Rick Lax did my last repo and it is just awsome.
My point is; If a guy kills a fish or two or 6 he/she is being selfish and greedy. We don't own the fish, everyone does. Bcause you catch them, you can kill them? Thats just crap in my mind. Years ago it was different, you could not get the repo's in all sizes and colors. Now you can, for ABOUT the same price and you let SOMEONE ELSE catch that dream fish. SHARE THE DREAMS............
Am I now an Elitist? |
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Posts: 8781
| Koepp...
Not disagreeing but what do you say to the "it's a legal fish its my right to keep it" crowd?
(other than "yeah, well, there's a lot of people out there working very hard for increased size limits for that very reason, don't be surprised when a 48" muskie isn't legal anymore because too may people were keeping them") |
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Posts: 299
Location: Nowheresville, MN | Mikes Extreme - 5/22/2007 3:48 PM
My point is; If a guy kills a fish or two or 6 he/she is being selfish and greedy. We don't own the fish, everyone does. Bcause you catch them, you can kill them? Thats just crap in my mind.
I don't know where I stand on this. Keeping one or two trophies a lifetime greedy? No, get real. 6+ yes, getting greedy. Because you catch them you CAN kill them. Big walleyes get mounted all the time. A 10lb walleye may get to be 12 lbs. You just took that chance away from some other walleye fisherman. 12lb eyes can arguably be just as rare as a 50 ski in most systems. Greedy? how about 10lb bass, 40+" pike, 15" brookie? Just playing devils advocate.
Wood Tick brings up a good point, realism. Do they have all sizes, I still say no. In 2003 there were no replicas 52.25" X 22.5" available. Remember, I'm pretty sure replica molds must first be made from a real fish of that dimensions (I could be wrong). In my opinion, some of the replicas I've seen posted on here don't look anything like the real fish. I'm sticking my neck out here, but particularly those by Fittante. Heck there was even an advertisement in Musky Hunter showing the real fish and replica from a Green Bay fish I believe and they didn't even look close. As a person who has a replica hanging on his wall, I still struggle with this question. I still look at that fish hanging and wonder if that is what it really looked like. Fish also carry girth differently. Two 40 fish can be "built" very differently. Unless you take numerous measurements along the fish you'll never get an exact fit. You have to put your trust in the taxidermist that he did the best job he could. If I'm ever graced with a 40lb fish and I'm easily accessible to a taxidermist I will have a heavy decision. I also think the lake comes into question. Will a 40lb fish still live and continue to grow in Mille lacs or GB, most likely. But a ~500 acre lake in Vilas co., I don't know.
Nobody black listed Gelb for his fish, nor should he have been. It was a real trophy and he's released numerous "trophy" fish. Had that fish been his second muskie ever, and not built his reputation of releasing numerous trophies yet, would he be persecuted? I bet he would.
The answer is yes, this point of view and accordingly most die-hard muskie fisherman are elitists. So are those strictly dry fly fat-liners that scoff at those that dunk crawlers. There is nothing wrong with being called an elitist. It's a point of view and these are the folks that push for better regulations that make fisheries great.
Edited by tfootstalker 5/22/2007 4:46 PM
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Posts: 2112
Location: The Sportsman, home, or out on the water | I know who you are speaking about, Shep. And no, you are not an Elitist. You, as well as the rest of us on this board are conservationists, who want to perpetuate, not eliminate, the resource. Bravo to you! There is a licensed USCG Captain who guides out of Green Bay (lives in Green Bay, not Radloff) who also Killed 6 last season. |
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Having a replica that I know isn't exactly like the fish I caught, I don't care.
Not one bit, nada, don't even think about it.
It's not exactly the same size, shape or color.
Neither is a skin mount, they are stretched, often to a size bigger than it was, and painted, just like a graphite.
Big deal.
In a day and age where we know that C&R is what has made some of best fisheries what they are today, to know that and kill trophies is selfish.
What else would you call it?
Lot's of things in this world are selfish, everybody is guilty of it.
Calling someone else an elitist because they choose not to be selfish is just denying that you are being selfish by killing that fish.
JS |
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| Not elitist but many of us are becoming alarmist... |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Remember the MuskieFIRST Posting permissions? No personal attacks, etc? Still apply, and on all OutdoorsFIRST sites.
I wouldn't fish the guy's event, either. |
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Posts: 20218
Location: oswego, il | I am not an elitist but people who don't like muskies and kill them when they catch them are. I see people in indiana trolling with a big coolers in the boat. I know of several boats who target muskies exclusively for the express purpose of killing them. |
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Posts: 720
| Hi all,
I'm with BenR. Now a days there are to many people who are sticking their nose into other people's buisness. I agree with you Shep keeping 6 fish is greedy and selfish. However, it was within his right to do so. So you don't agree who cares certainly not the dedicated walleye angler that frequents that board. They already think we are all a bunch tools so you going on that board and dump some gas on their fire. If you did'nt want to fish the tournament then don't. We are small group compared too the walleye gang and like it or not we need those guys when it comes to dealing with the state and federal goverments on certain natural resourse issues. So for me I don't think your elitist, I just think getting into a pissing match with a skunk does'nt do our cause any good. Not judging your opinion on the subject of keeping all those fish Shep. I just think jabbing these guys does'nt help anyone. Then to come on here and getting these folks all wired up by trying to validate your position. I don't just understand that. If your secure in your position on these matters what difference does it make what those guys say or think.
Dave
Edited by Hunter4 5/22/2007 9:52 PM
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| Words of reason...thanks |
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