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Posts: 2089
| I'm curious as to what you guys think of a guide charging a "gas surcharge". I guide on big water and did not raise my rates this season. With gas going to be pushing $4 a gallon this season, I've been seriously contemplating a surcharge.Could not have forseen such a dramatic jump in gas prices, thus not changing rates earlier.Or....... do I just contact everyone and let them know of the impending $25 charge? Expenses are out of control. Fill the tank? 51 gallons X $3+ a gallon.MINIMUM of $ 150. Hmmm. I'm interested to hear the responses.
Steve |
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Posts: 8865
| Steve,
I honestly think you'd be better off raising your prices. Obviously you couldn't predict ahead of time that gas was going to be as high as they are predicting. Nobody would argue with you if you changed your rates because of that, but I think some might argue with a surcharge, since gas is technically "part of the deal". Sort of like going to a restaurant and having a $5 charge on the bill for cleaning up your table or pouring your coffee.
Either way I would consider keeping the rate the same for the guys who have already booked. Same deal -- everybody will understand that gas costs are eating into your profit, but you KNOW people will get upset if they booked you at $350 and later on you went and raised the prices.
If it were me I'd go to $375 for all future bookings, and keep the people who have already booked and sent deposits at $350. Maybe mention on the water that you're thinking of getting a smaller boat because gas costs are killing you. That just might get a few people to give you a bigger tip at least.
You're going to have to come up with something to say to the guys who say "Look at him, he puts a 53" in the boat and now he thinks he's worth $375!", though
I've heard a lot of guys criticize guide rates, because they think you're MAKING $350/day. Sounds like a lot until you factor in payments on your truck, payments on your boat, buying rods, reels, tackle, insurance, gas for the truck, gas for the boat, and the fact that you're only working 150 - 200 days a year.
Edited by esoxaddict 5/3/2007 2:20 PM
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| A lot of guides just have the customer re-fill the tank at the end of the day at whatever resort they launched from. Seems like a fair deal to me. |
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Posts: 1316
Location: Madison, WI | I wouldn't mind paying a gas charge, but if the guide is out there all day fishing along side. I don't think it should be a full refill charge. They are using the fuel as well enjoying the time out. |
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Posts: 2378
| I dont blame you man, but that's going to be a tough one to sell to some people.
"By the way even though the price was $XXX when you booked, you OWE me another $25 because gas is so #*^@ expensive"
I see that being responded to very negatively to by some...possibly bad for business in the long run.
I suggest following EA's advice and upping the price for a day right now for anyone that isnt already booked. Not sure what you can do about the ones that have already booked other than hope that they realize the situation and pony up a little more at the end of the day.
Or you could just drive slower and use less gas...hehe
Edited by BALDY 5/3/2007 3:13 PM
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| I don't like Gas Surcharges at all. The lodge I went to last year tried to do it but I was like no way. They agreed. If you made a commitment I think you have to stick to it. I would say its fine on unbooked days where you let them know up front but anyone who booked before should be set. |
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Posts: 91
Location: Wausau | I don't think a surcharge is all that bad. It should be a percentage of what the gas costs that day. If prices come back in line the surcharge goes away. If you raise your cost across the board and book someone for late July at the higher cost due to the price of gas today and the prices come down they might come in July and say hay the price of gas is down I want a refund for that increase. I would hope anyone who books you for a day and spends anywhere from $12 - $25 for a single bait isn't worried about a few extra bucks for gas. It would'nt stop me from spending a day in the boat with an accomplished guide. |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Gas surcharges are VERY common in business. It's the safest way to get back to the original cost when fuel goes back to "normal" levels.
Magruters comment: "I wouldn't mind paying a gas charge, but if the guide is out there all day fishing along side. I don't think it should be a full refill charge. They are using the fuel as well enjoying the time out."
Sir, it's obvious that you've never guided a day in your life. Ask any guide and they're pretty much ALWAYS rather be fishing alone or with their friends. My wife used to use that argument on me when I would occasionally guide and count it the same as if I were out with my friends (even though I gave the family the money). She thought it was a "day on the lake" for me and nothing but fun and games. If the guide is doing it right (whether they're fishing or not) it's work. |
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Posts: 8865
| Here's what you do:
1. go on a diet
2. start a vigorous cardio program
3. stop shaving
4. At least once during the day, make a hard turn, back off the throttle, and yell "%^$& LOONS!!!"
Then turn to your clients and say "I just don't understand why they don't get out of the way anymore, almost like they WANT me to hit them!" (make sure there's not a loon in sight when you do this)
5. When your clients decide to eat lunch watch them eat. When they notice you've been staring at them, say: "man, if you don't mind, could I have a bite of that sandwich? I spent all my money putting gas in the boat... again. I normally wouldn't ask, but it's been like 3 or 4 days since I had anything to eat and it's starting to affect my ability to drive the boat. And I keep having weird dreams about running over loons in the boat...
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| Steve,
I would look at your cost of fuel daily...or as close as you can come from last year! Figure out what your pricing is going to be for X # of gallons. Use that as your baseline...say $2.75/gallon. Then, if the gas DOES go up to $3.75, and you ran 16 gallosn through your boat, you can feel good about charging a $16.00 fuel surcharge. It is no one's fault...it just happened! I wish we'd just take over the Irqui oil fields and we'd be fine! Let the customer know BEFORE they come to book you as a guide! If you were to guide 200 days this year, and the fuel was an extra $20.00 per day, that is $4,000....that's a lot. A client on the other hand, will only be handing over a $20.00 bill.
Now as far as resorts charging a fuel surcharge, I think they have the right. You only surcharge the difference! But if you take a place like Andy Myer's Lodge, who puts 1,100 people through each year. And they all use 40 litres of fuel a day, times 6 days, this is 264,000 litres of fuel! If the price of fuel went from .80 cents per litre, to $1.25 per litre, Herbie's fuel bill would go from $211,200 per year, to $330,000...over $100,000 MORE per year! If each person who came to the resort was surcharged a percentage of the increase, it would keep AML from raising their prices. If the fuel came down in the fall, like it does, there wouldn't be as big a charge there either.
Does any of this makes sense? Or did I just ramble?
Donnie |
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Posts: 94
| Steve
You have every right to charge a fuel surcharge. Most every industry in this country and around the world, that uses fuel, is charging a surcharge. You just need to decide at what price level you need to start charging and call all your clients and notify them. Keep it simple, charge your clients for the cost difference when the price reaches $3.00 and above or what ever you think is right. For example if gas cost you $3.50 the day of the trip and you used 20 gallons charge them an extra $10.00 as a surcharge. If you let your clients know about it in advance they shouldn't have a problem. I don't think anyone would want you to lose money, I wouldn't if I was one of your clients. If they do have a problem with it they can always request a refund on any money they put down and you can fill their spot with a client that understands.
Chris |
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Posts: 239
Location: Madison, WI | I've fished with guides that have a flat rate plus gas. Makes sense based on the fluctuating cost of fuel. That guarantee’s you will be paid accordingly for your time and effort and eliminate surcharges and/or raising your rates. You’ll be able to quote customers approximate fuel costs based on how far you travel and price per gallon at the time.
Most guides are $xxx per day. No problem there but if I book at a agreed upon rate and the fuel surcharge is later added I would not be thrilled. I would recommend a deposit refund option if you do up the ante for those that are in the books.
I'd most likely pay the surcharge. $25-$50 split in 1/2 between 2 clients, it's not that much....
Edited by cpr fish 5/3/2007 4:42 PM
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Posts: 2865
Location: Brookfield, WI | Makes sense to me, Steve. It will be what the market will bear. I doubt you're the only well known guide in the business running a few numbers before the season starts and cringing a little bit, so consequently I doubt you will have many complaints. I know if I had a trip booked I'd be thinking about how the rise in gas prices is going to affect the people I hired. Plus, it's not like you're fishing a 200 acre Lake X.
I would do it. You might lose a couple dates, but not many I bet. Be up front and honest. I think if in any way you do it where clients think you're being kind of weaslely about it, then you might run into trouble.
We've met and you don't seem weaslely to me. You're just not shaped right. 
I do have one other idea. Call it a Ma'amcharge. Maybe clients will think you're bringing some chicks.
Kevin
The area has been cleared. We're good to go.
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| I like the idea of guides charging a flat rate + gas fee based on current prices. With gas going up and down so much why not say it is for example $350 per day, and then a charge for gas based on what was used and current gas prices.
Seems like the best way to do it. my 2 cents |
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Posts: 2089
| Guys,
I really appreciate all the responses. Keep 'em coming! Steve |
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Posts: 227
Location: Maple Grove | If the rise in gas is causing your operating expenses to get out of control you will need to raise your prices. I too would shy away from a gas "surcharge". Just bake it in...everyone else is (Airlines, Shipping Companies, etc...) Marketing 101...
Value=Benefits/Price. Keep putting fish in the boat and your customers will still be there. |
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So what do you do if gas goes below the surcharge figure, say you tack on money if it's above $3 a gallon, do you give a refund it is goes below, or pocket the profit?
I would be leary of a system of pro-rating gas expenses with a surcharge.
Your clients are already going to be paying more money in gas just to go on vacation, an extra fee may just cause more to scrap the guide trip, or it may come out of your tip. It also may deter them from booking in the future.
You have to consider how many more clients you may gain by being cheaper than others who are looking to charge extra for gas as well.
When you are in a business that involves using fuel as a major operating exepense, you have to be prepared, some years it'll be up, some down.
Believe me, I know, we use about 30,000 gallons of propane a year in our business.
JS |
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Posts: 1516
| Interesting question how much gas do you use per day? Donnie's idea makes cents. |
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Posts: 218
| It seems that you have already entered into a contract when you booked the date even if you did not get a deposit. Would you lower your rates if gas went down to $2.25 in mid July? If you even have to think about your answer, I don't see how you can think about a rate increase. Keep gas prices in mind when you set new rates or book new dates but honor your commitments as a professional should.
Ray |
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Posts: 51
Location: Aitkin, Blaine, Minnesota | I would be annoyed if someone changed the deal on me. I would however personally factor gas into better tip especially if the guide was really working the water. We all know gas is up. I would guess there will be a fair share of your patrons that will tip you better or may even offer an extra "gas" bonus. One other thing, there is nothing worse than hiring a professional (in anything) that bitches about the costs involved in practicing their craft/ servicing me. As with any bidness decision some will agree and will not, good luck tough call.
Remember, your clients are also getting screwed as they are driving up, down, or sideways to get there paying for gas all the way.
Another topic is how will it affect the boat whores out there who never offer to pick up the gas??? You know who you are!!!!!
Edited by MuskyFeverMN 5/3/2007 8:13 PM
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| The Schwan's company was adding a dollar to each order as a gas surcharge recently. Maybe they still are, I'm not sure. The rep said nobody made a stink about it. |
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| i understand the thought, i really do.
that being said, i've got a 90-mile round trip daily commute. i "have" to drive this distance every day to do my job.
my truck averages 15 miles/gal, so it's 6 gallons per day to get to work and back.
at $2.50/gallon, that costs me $15/day ($150/2wks)
at $3.50/gallon, that costs me $21/day ($210/2wks)
no matter how much gas costs me to drive, i get the same amount in my paycheck every 2 weeks.
as much as i'd like to do so, i can't tack on a gas surcharge to cover the variable costs of getting to work.
i signed a contract with my employer to do a certain job for a certain rate of pay.
when gas prices go up, my income goes down, plain and simple.
if you do charge a gas surcharge, my guess is that you will most likely see a smaller tip from many of your clients. most people are budgeting a certain amount for the guide trip to cover your rate plus the tip. just because your rate changes does not mean that everyone is going to change the total amount they budgeted at the time they booked the trip.
another thing to consider: what are the majority of the other quality guides in your area doing? you don't want the word to spread that you're charging more than them and drive potential clients to someone else. some money for a day is better than no money, right?
btw, my solution was acutally to join a van-pool.
i pay around $70 every 2 weeks to ride to work.
this saves me about $250 every month at current gas prices!
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Posts: 2089
| Very interesting comments all around. I've heard over the years about resort and lodge guides charging a "gas surcharge" or gas was the responsibility of the client. I WILL NOT charge extra for gas this season or next. Bring on $4 a gallon! I've heard the 225E-TEC H.O. is fairly fuel efficient. Lets hope. Thanks for the responses and helping me make an easy decision even easier.Some guys I've talked to have suggested just "fishing closer" and not running as much. Sorry, no can do. I am committed 110% to do whatever it takes to provide the best opportunity to score. If that means Vineland to 3 mile to Wealthwood, then by all means. VIVA LA POND. Steve
Edited by Steve Jonesi 5/4/2007 7:22 AM
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Posts: 561
Location: Monee, Illinois | Steve I would say no to start, but let your clients know that you are not charging this surcharge even though gas prices are getting out of control. If they are any kind of decent clients they will make that up in the tip at the end of the day.....Just my 2 cents.... |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | I'm usually a very poor tipper. If a guide told me he was thinking about surcharging, and decided not to, I might be tempted to increase the tip a bit. Of course, if it was one of those days where we made a 5 minute run, dropped the troller, and spent the day on one spot, I'd have to think hard about it. If We had to run all over the lake to get me on fish, now that's much different. m |
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| Mikie you make a good point but just knowing what it's like where Steve guides, he burns a lot of gas in a days time. Steve, I hope you get good tips to make up the costs and not charging extra says a lot about how considerate you are of your customers. |
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| I'm looking at it on the whole. Lambeau, very good point...I understand we need to pay for gas to get back and forth to work...agreed! The difference is this...Jonesi won't be charging the people extra gas in his truck, just the boat! Why? Becuz it is the tool that gets his clients from point A to point B.
Trucking companies charge fuel surcharges now...without them, we'd have every small trucking company go belly up like the late 90's. The shippers know up front, so they understand there will be the charge! You can settle for second best, hire a guide (or trucking company) who doesn't charge a surcharge...and you'll get what you pay for!
Does this make sense?
Just my 2.27 cents Canadian worth!
Donnie |
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| what are the other guides on Mille Lacs doing? Lee, Greg, Hamernick etc?
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| The shippers know up front, so they understand there will be the charge!
this is the key point.
guide clients who booked their trip at a show over the winter would not be expecting a gas surcharge. some would be fine with it, some might get upset about it.
in reality, you're probably talking $20? i personally wouldn't be upset about it, but i've seen many people get bent in a knot over much less than that - especially if they weren't expecting it up front.
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| Lambeau,
The fuel surcharges companies are getting charged fluctuate daily. The base rate for the haul is $x,xxx.00. Then, the surcharge, will fluctuate between 3-25%...almost daily!
I think if any guide were to just tell his clients, via e-mail, phone call, etc., that if prices jump up very high, there might be a fuel surcharge. But, I wouldn't wnt Jonesi buying a lesser boat, or smaller truck, or fish fewer spots because it's costing him TOO MUCH to stay in business! Like I said yesterday, I'd rather drink a few less Scotch and waters, then to see a guide go out of business because he's spending an extra $35 per day in fuel, when I'm fishing with Steve, Lee, Greg, or anyone else for that matter.
Your thoughts??
Donnie |
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