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| I'm a member here. Love the boards, learned some here. My biggest fear with the internet is evenetually with the internet there will be no secret lakes anymore. I feel that if a lake is less than a certain size say 300 acres for instance it should not be allowed to be commented on unless its already known as a musky lake.
How many secret lakes are there out there that people would be crushed to see on the internet boards. Lakes people have fished there whole life due to one post could be ruined. I"m sure many of you have these lakes in your backyard, ontario, other not so well known musky states, and hard to access lakes. What do other members think about this.
I think if it could voted on that certain lakes should have immunity from millions of views by outsiders.
What do you think? I could be wrong here but i'd be crushed to see my lake x on a board here and would probly be so disgusted I would never post again. If moderators were to notified via PM of there small lake being revealed this could solve the problem. I'm not talking about big lakes here I'm talking lakes that never get fished. |
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Posts: 7036
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Interesting thought: that we would regulate your speech MORE than we are already accused of doing. That MuskieFIRST (and thereby WalleyeFIRST, Icefishing FIRST, SalmonFIRST, and all future projects would need to be rolled in I would suppose) would say that some types of positive information sharing SHOULD be allowed, and some should be deleted, to protect that information from some, and keep it only in the hands of others.
Example, I and my old crew started fishing Lake Webster in about the year 2000. On a BUSY day, there would be maybe 3 maybe 4 other muskie boats out there. What you're saying is that since the fishable acreage (outside of the backwater area, though I knwo there are fish there, too) is about 400 acres (which really is still a pretty small lake) this lake should have been kept SECRET from the masses. An example of the fact that the masses truly are going there: I went to Webster with my father last June, on a Wed., to try to avoid the crowds. There were 30 boats chasing muskies.
Ok, so some sort of "gag order" would have been imposed. Allow for the thought that somehow word on the Webster area was ONLY spread by the internet (which a large bit of the hype about this lake was developed through this site and others). Me and my crew, and those that were already fishing the lake would be the only people to fish this lake. So many others who have had such enjoyment on this small gem of a lake, would not have. Their fishing opportunities would be more limited, and they might not have had a chance to get some of the experiences that are very specific to Webster lake. But, me and my friends and a few others would NOT have had to deal with the crowds. Lucky us, too bad for everyone else.
So, back to your point. I'll answer the question for you from OutdoorsFIRST: we're not going to be policing the site to keep people off of lakes. If you want to safeguard your secrets, that's your choice, but we're not going to serve to do this for you. MuskieFIRST is about positive information SHARING, not withholding. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | i have a couple of gems that are certainly known by many ... but ... when i take people there it's their choice for who they talk to and how they send the message. i think if people who are "taken" to a lake by someone that has some understanding of it that it just makes sense to consider that they "learned" it and didn't "find" it and respect that when they communicate. now, there are responsibilities that i take on myself by taking people to these places and it's really my own fault if i bring attention to them. but, if i'm going fishing anyway and somebody is with me i want to go somewhere worth going to ...
last year i was introduced to some other waters by some guys ... again, solid producers that many people know of ... but for me i just went fishing with some guys that took me to some great water, we scored, had a great time and that's all i need to say about that.
in a nutshell, you take your own risks bringing people places ... the key is whether you either bring them back or take them to another good one ... and it's all about how you either talk or don't talk.
the good thing is most of these fish are getting released and the "pressure" is all relative eh? for me though i'd rather be welcomed back again or if i was on the water at the same time as the "host" ... i'd rather earn a wave from a friend than otherwise. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | member:
in your post you say that a lake should not be allowed to be commented on if it's under 300 acres and not "known" as a musky lake....hate to break it to ya but if there are muskies in a lake I can guarantee there is more than one person who knows about it...so asking the moderators to delete threads or mention of lakes that are small and might be someones "lake x" i don't think is really going to happen, nor should it...your lake x might be well known to another handfull of guys half way across the state...the internet, email and word of mouth spread lake names pretty fast these days...best bet as I have found out, is only share those lakes with a very very select few and try to impress upon them (without coming across as a hard*ss) that you would like the lake name to not be repeated and to respect the fact you were taken there ....as in, next time i'm there i don't want to pull in and see you and a couple other boats of your buddies on it...good way to ruin a friendship! 
those who know me, know i go out of my way to find such lakes...and i'm fortunate to have a few i would somewhat consider lake x's in that a couple are private and one is semi private and one is just out of the way...have i seen these lakes mentioned on posts before..one i did..and i just let it go...there are lakes all over the musky world that don't get fished hard and have lots of good fish...just try to keep your lake x as quiet as you can is all you can do....
half the fun for me is searching for these so called lake x's and finding out they really are worth the trouble finding...i'm looking forward to this summer as I may have just uncovered another one to add to the arsenal...
fishing a lake in northern wi with good muskies and being the only one on the water on a saturday in july is what it's all about!!
Edited by MSKY HNR 4/6/2007 10:26 PM
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Wouldnt that be taking away someones constitutional rights of freedom of speech? If your 'lake x' isnt putting out numbers of fish as well as a large proportion of BIG fish, I think you are safe. |
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| What I am saying is a lake that no one fishes for muskies period. A lake you take no one too. If you take someone to a lake X it's a risk you take that they will reveal it, I understand this.
Unless you fish a lake like this it is hard to imagine but they are out there. A lake 4 times better than any known public lake. What I am saying is its very sad that someone may have fished a secret lake for 30 years with there family and then a nonmusky fisherman will come onto this site and ask a question like this
"I fished Lake X today and saw 3 50"ers fishing for crappie do any of you fish this lake for musky?"
First any musky fisherman in the area will be there tomorrow and will most likely not even help this new fisherman out. If the lake is 60 Acres are you going to make a posts when you plan on fishing the lake the upcomming week?
If you don't make accomidations as a board of unlimited information you will have members no longer post period. So essentially you'll have nonmusky fisherman revealing spots. Is this really what you want for your site? If you don't have a Lake X revealed to you on this site life will be the same tomorrow as it was today, but If your 60 Acre lake X gets revealed and fished out how will you feel? Horrible. Unless you have had a secret lake for a long time it's hard to fully grasp but i'm sure others feel the same way.
I guess its impossible to keep Lake X secret forever but I'd think MF would want to help their Members who post here daily in some type of manner as opposed to a non musky fisherman spilling the beans and not fully realizing what their post will mean for the lake.
thanks for your time. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I think you are sort of over analyzing it...i've been visiting this site for a few years and I can't think of a time when a non musky guy came on and ruined it for someone...maybe there have been a few posts/threads that mentioned someones lake x but i wouldn't lose sleep over it...they still have to go there and catch them...and that isn't as easy for some as others ! |
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| Pointer,
Not at all. Unless you know a lake like this it is hard to imagine. Also think about how many things you are not allowed to say in your posts right now and rightly so.
If 90% of members said they do not want lakes under 100 acres to be allowed to be reported on I would think the board would want to accomadate this. How about a private lake you live on by yourself that is accessible by river that holds 55"ers? Right now no one fishes the lake but if revealed your lake will have 3-4 boats on it every day. Think about it if you were the owner of the lake. I dont think you can honestly say that there isn't something wrong with this.
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Location: Contrarian Island | the lakes are there for everyone to use...even if they are "private" with no public access if there is a waterway to get on them...it is fairgame...you are worrying too much about it if you ask me...humans are creatures of habit...sure a few might try to get on your lake x if they hear about it...they go there, get skunked, don't see a fish and go back to fishing the lakes they always fish... |
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| HNR,
I'm from the USA but if you live on a private lake in ontario think about it. Someone from the states does not care if they reveal your lake because they may fish it a few days a year. Same thing happens with hunting spots with people who travel from far away and only come to the area for a few days as opposed to someone who lives there.
I've seen so many yearling bucks shot by out of towners that it is really sad when I lived in a rural area. Samething holds true for fisherman. They are less likely to respect the land and also the fishery. I currently live in a big city and I'm guessing if you are from the city and don't have a true lake X you will be opposed to this idea but if you live in a rural area you'll have a much different perspective. But I do have a lake X up North that no one fishes at all.
Not trying to argue here just want to see what others think |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Ok...Like Slamr said, take Lake Webster...just a few years ago there wasn't anybody out there...now it's a zoo...am I to blame...sure for some of it...but guess what, there are still fish caught everyday...just adapt...
I have other lakes that I fish on that I would like to keep quiet...and some are 3000 acers... I have taken people to these lakes and have had great success...and if other show up...oh well...the fish are still there... I just need to learn how to adapt and catch them.
The problem I see with "Lake X"'s is, people don't want others going out there and catching a bigger fish than they have caught...Most people won't admit it...but this is a big reason why. Musky lakes are always being fished, explored or beat by new people every year. Just remember the musky brain is about the size of a pea...
Go fishing and don't worry about what everybody else is doing.
Oh yeah...Hey Nelson...what are the names of your WI "Lake X"'s.....LOL
Edited by MikeHulbert 4/6/2007 10:59 PM
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Location: Contrarian Island | I do live in a city but I fish a bunch of lakes in northern wi that i would consider lake x's...so i think saying people from the city wouldnt agree with you is false...
it's a free country, if someone wants to come on here and babble about this hot lake they found..so be it.. they are only hurting what they uncovered..if you look on the "reports" page you will notice that it is 99% of the lakes that are very very well known...musky fishermen are a secretive bunch for the most part...
bnelson.
HTrain,,,my lake X's are....
Trout
Lake Tom
Kentuck
and North Twin!!!
Edited by MSKY HNR 4/6/2007 11:03 PM
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Posts: 117
| I think i am gonna vent on this sublect and i would like to thank Slamer on his comment on education and not with holding..
I have seensome people who i went on trips with that dont understand the concept of fishing. And be it bass or Muskie fishing some people i know dont take it seriously than all the people on this site. Be it from the person who dont know why he aint catchin fish cause he dont know how to adapt to the species or he's there trying to make an a$$ out of him self and not get any fishing done. Plus patronizing people who concentrate on the water and try there 200% everytime they go out. And even if we wont catch a fish that day- then so be it! As fishermen (of any species) even if you didnt catch anything that day you thank God you living,breathing and fishing enjoying the outdoors (hey...we even enjoy it when we are freezing our a$$es off)
People who are not all the above i will be MORE than happy to share secret spots and "lake X's" with them..
Waho...did i jump over my point? I hope you all understand where i am coming from.. |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Not a chance.
First, there are plenty of small lakes out there kept off the radar by most. I have told so many people about some of my favorite water it's crazy, but no rush to the lake occurred.
Second, you are saying a lake will be 'ruined' because it's known. Locals already know it, and don't need this board to educate themselves. If a small lake is talked about here, chances are most won't bother with it, I'm the proof of that several times over. If someone tries it, most everyone here will be CPR.
Third, you are talking as if bait shops, newspapers, magazines, word of mouth, and other forms of communication don't exist. They do.
Fourth, most folks who ask a question here or ask for help or information get exactly that. Don't underestimate the good will of most Muskie anglers.
Fifth, this is not a free speech forum. MuskieFIRST is a publication, and we'll do our best to steer the content the direction our visitors seem to be the most comfortable/happy with reading. We openly share information as a community, and will continue to do so at each person's individual discretion. Don't want to talk about your favorite Lake X? Cool, don't, but respect those who do.
Owner of the lake? if the lake is privately owned, no one can fish there. If not, it's publicly owned by definition.
Sure, I have a half dozen I keep pretty quiet, but only a couple I won't tell ANYONE about. Those are Keith's little gems, and I respect his wishes.
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| If you have a lake X in a state that doesn't have many musky fisherman it would be horrible. Take a 50 Acre lake revealed in Tennesee. Now you've got non musky guys throwing husky jerks at them on there 8lb mono. Think about this in depth.
I know I killed the first musky I caught on accident to to poor CPR. Fished the lake a week later and saw a fish of the same size floating and I was sad, and then I realized I was the one who killed it and I was pretty sick. Its going to happen eventually here on MF that lakes will be revealed in areas that are not known to have muskies. I just don't like that in no circumstance could certain info be pulled off.
I think there should be some limitation to this and I think others may feel the same way. When contributing daily to MF and making this site great we could be supporting a site that will eventually reveal our Lake X and be the downfall of a lake so dear to us. This is something I'm not willing to do. It's just not worth it.
As I said a lake NO ONE FISHES FOR MUSKY! |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | You are on a board where everyone fishes for muskie. I have absolutely no idea how you think we could control what folks want to offer for information. It's simply not possible, and wouldn't work, no matter what.
Our moderation staff has enough to worry about without assigning them the job of being the Lake X police, and EVERYONE'S perception of what Lake X IS could be different.
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| Dre,
This is exactly what I'm afraid of, I think we may agree on this, this is what you said.
"I have seensome people who i went on trips with that dont understand the concept of fishing. And be it bass or Muskie fishing some people i know dont take it seriously than all the people on this site. Be it from the person who dont know why he aint catchin fish cause he dont know how to adapt to the species or he's there trying to make an a$$ out of him self and not get any fishing done"
Will not take long for a 50 acre lake to be hurt substantially with these type of people. I have no ill will towards people who are fishing to enjoy the outdoors but at the end of the day a dead fish is a dead fish. |
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Posts: 574
| And I suppose that people only fish for muskie with 8lb line on lake X.
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | What?
So fishermen who have no idea how to look for or catch a Muskie will for absolutely no reason frequent a rabidly specific Muskie board, learn of a tiny Lake X talked about in one of a quarter million posts, rush there totally unequipped and kill 'your' fish 'on accident'?? All due respect, you are WAY overthinking this. |
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| No it happens like this. Lake x gets revealed and now there are 3 MF members on it every weekend. 1 of the 3 members tells Joe the local Gas Station owner he caught a 50". Joe says "Holy crap I didn't even know there were musky in that lake." Joe tells son who fishes bass about this and now Joe's son is out tossing a 8" orange suick bought at wal-mart on his spinning rod.
This is not a fantasy story. This is a true story i've seen on another public lake. Sure the lake was public and it didn't bother me all that much because it was a public lake.
I got incredibly lucky finding my lake X and the lake doesn't get fished for other species either. This is not a usual situation.
I'd say maybe 5% of musky fisherman have a True Lake X that no one else fishes. So this idea may not go over well on this thread. You will eventually lose members though and the quality of posters will demise over time unless you have some sort of secrecy on lakes less than 100 acres. Just my thoughts. |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | No, we won't. You are obviously concerned about keeping a lake secret, do that. Don't post it here. If someone else does, guess what? It isn't a secret.
MuskieFIRST is not going to be the Lake X Assigned Protectorate. It's an impossible task to determine how big every lake mentioned here might or might not be. Also, it's an open invitation for lots of fights over what Lake X is Who's Lake X, which we do not encourage.
There are other fishing websites out there (LOTS of them) that display a heck of alot less interest in conservation. If you are concerned about this board, you REALLY NEED TO WORRY about those other guys. Suggest this on a Reports style site, and you will get laughed off the forum, literally.
Short answer is no. |
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| basically MF would not substantially lose anything from making a rule which states that lakes less than 100 acres are not allowed to be reported on. On the flip side I know of atleast one true diehard musky fisherm who no longer posts due to this reason alone and the more I think about it the more I think he may be right.
reports on big lakes like vermillion, leach, chip flowage, LOTW and even lakes of 1000 acres are not a huge deal but when you allow really small lakes that are extremely sensative to harvest numbers who are riding the fine line of having a self sustainable population be reported on its not a good thing.
Take 10 mature females out of a 60 acre lake every year and how are things looking for the future of the fishery?
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| Sworral,
Missed your post before I posted mine. This is the only site I post on. Its hands down the best site and I am a big member. I'm not talking about having a lake X debate i'm talking about an objective lake size in which should be immune from any reporting. This would not hurt MF in any way. IMHO
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Unenforceable, and again, not going to happen for that reason first, and a ton of others after. |
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| it sounds like you are the only one fishing your lake x ...so WHY are you worried about it getting posted about here? if you are the only one fishing it then keep your trap shut...problem solved...i agree with others that you are worrying way to much about nothing...
go fish. |
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Posts: 3864
| I keep my Lake X's to myself, except when I take buds like Al, Papa, Lynn, etc. These are always little lakes or certain small stretches of rivers. |
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Posts: 324
Location: Bloomington, Illinois | member - 4/6/2007 11:50 PM
I'd say maybe 5% of musky fisherman have a True Lake X that no one else fishes. So this idea may not go over well on this thread. You will eventually lose members though and the quality of posters will demise over time unless you have some sort of secrecy on lakes less than 100 acres. Just my thoughts.
So, in order to protect the so-called lake-x of 5% of musky fishermen you want to impose a rule on the other 95%? Seems a bit selfish...I maintain the doomsday scenarios you are referencing (a kid with a Zebco 33 and a Walmart suick) are much more likely to occur from word of mouth locally than from any message board...If you are lucky enough to have musky water that others don't know about, good for you...Keep it secret...Just don't expect MF to enforce your secrecy...That said, have a great season...And just so you know, any message board can trace the IP address of your computer and find out who you are...Some secrets just can't be kept 
matt |
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Posts: 956
Location: Home of the 2016 World Series Champion Cubs | Hey "member", you said it yourself..."joe at the gas station tells his son who fishes bass." Why should we think he's going to switch to muskies????? You said he was a bass fisherman. There are hundreds of thousands perhaps even millions of bass guys. Most of which wouldnt even consider for a second to cast for muskies . Though if he coincidentally WAS interrested in muskies he can learn about lake x on this web site in addition to Conservation, Catch and Release, proper fish handling etc etc etc. You must remeber this site and others do many great things that benefit all that is muskies. A new muskie angler....great. Consider him/her a new resource as well. Perhaps he/she will some day be stocking fish and caring for the fish/ecology etc as a result. Maybe even in your beloved lake-X. If you keep fishng and hunting to youself I assume your children/grandchildren will never experience lake x either. thats the attitude that will be the demise of all husting /fishing sports. There needs to be growth.
Karl
Edited by KARLOUTDOORS 4/7/2007 9:35 AM
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| No problem here. Just wanted to bring the idea up. I thought some may feel the same way. I am probably too overprotective, but like I said i'm referring to very small lakes. This is a small lake on a national forest that you need to hike into with a kayak to fish. Tuff to CPR. In all honesty I am more concerned about these small lakes in general than mine in particular, especially small ontario lakes. And yes I do care more about the future of a fishery than people's temporary enjoyment of the resource. I think my type of thinking in this manner may be wrong but it is how I feel nonetheless. Not looking to debate this, it's just a gut reaction I will always have.
I know of another 150 acre lake X that very few people fish for musky, but thus far it has stayed low on the radar. Not as much worried about this lake because it's already known by a few but I still don't tell a soul.
I don't know the moderators personally, no big deal if I did. I thought this may be controversial so in a google world I figured it would be better to not sign in.
goodluck. |
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| Karl,
I probably don't come across right in my posts but I meant to say that it's not someones fault for killing a fish if they don't realize it's going to happen. It just happens eventually.
I was the bass guy at one time who leaned there were muskies in a lake by my house and didn't use the right gear and I killed fish on accident and the fishery is worse off because of me.
Even the best CPR guys will eventually have fish die on them
I'll leave this post to rest
goodluck |
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