|
|
| The Fargo-Moorhead Chapter of MI held it's monthly meeting last night. One topic we discussed, was the stocking of fish into waters that didn't previously have them, particularly Pokegama, and Gull.
It was mentioned that at the latest meeting of the Minnesota Muskie Alliance, there was a discussion about "criteria" that arose. It seems that someone suggested that the DNR produce some type of criteria as to what type of body of water would be best suitable for Muskie stocking.
If I heard correctly, the DNR will write up some criteria to that effect, and that until it is written, there will be no more stocking of Muskies into new bodies of water in Minnesota. Goodbye Gull, goodbye Pokegama.(At least for this year).
I had to leave the meeting early, and I'm not sure if I have all of this information correct. If anyone was at that MMA meeting, or knows more information about this matter, I'd sure love to hear it. Who requested the new written criteria? Do we still have a chance at getting fish in either of those lakes this year?
Hope to hear more details. Thanks. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!?!?!?!?!?
You are correct in that the DNR is going to be expanding it's criteria for muskie stocking. We're going to be in a meeting this summer to go over it. Sportsman for Responsible Muskie Management is the group that pushed this agenda.
George and I will be meeting with the head of the DNR about this in the not too distant future to see if we can get at least Pokegama approved for this year. Remember, so long as it's approved this year we can always work to get fish in there this fall.
Drop me a line and I can fill you in more.
|
|
| |
|
|
The DNR does have criteria, and has for some time, since the early 80's I believe.
This group doesn't even know what research has been done, or have the faintest clue about all the parameters a lake has to meet to be selected.
They claim we need more research to prove that muskies won't kill everything, yet have no idea of all the test-netting that has been done which clearly shows populations staying stable or improving in lakes previously stocked.
Right now they are against stocking because they claim there is no research.
When they find out the research has been done, than they will claim the DNR doesn't know what they are talking about.
They are against muskie stocking period, they don't care whether or not it's biologically sound.
JS
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Sounds strangely familiar, sir. Best way might just be to get this in the open and air it out. My bet is the DNR over there isn't in any more of a hurry to end up on the public griddle than ours was here, but they undoubtedly already know all the facts of the matter. Any way we can assist? If not, that's cool too, but the offer stands. |
|
| |
|
| Why does the MN DNR keep bowing down to these kinds of groups? I thought it was bad enough when they reduced the stocking on Lake Miltona because of "No More Muskies". They now stock that lake at 20% of what they could, all because of the stink NMM made. Who gave "Sportsmen for Responsible Muskie Management" any credibility? Why should the DNR lift a finger to do anything they request? I have never even heard of them before, and out of nowhere they've got the power to pursuade the MN DNR? Wierd. |
|
| |
|
| Oops, I meant they're stocking 20% less than they could be. Sorry.  |
|
| |
|
| My solutoin was since "Sportsman for Responsible Musky Management", walleye acitivist. We should asked the DNR to stop stocking stocking walleye. Until they can show us the data that walleyes are not destroying MN trophy Perch fishery. You think he might back down if we could push to get walleye stocking halted?
Troyz |
|
| |
|
Posts: 518
Location: Cave Run Lake KY. | Muskie Treats - 3/27/2007 5:10 PM
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!?!?!?!?!?
You are correct in that the DNR is going to be expanding it's criteria for muskie stocking. We're going to be in a meeting this summer to go over it. Sportsman for Responsible Muskie Management is the group that pushed this agenda.
George and I will be meeting with the head of the DNR about this in the not too distant future to see if we can get at least Pokegama approved for this year. Remember, so long as it's approved this year we can always work to get fish in there this fall.
Drop me a line and I can fill you in more.
The Germans Bombed Pearl harber ???????????? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 175
| Chin Whiskers
Sic.... Animal House. |
|
| |
|
| Troyz
If you could get a moratorium stopping the next dark-house spearing season until research on the impact spearing has on Muskies that would really get their attention. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Guest, I like your idea.
Here's the problem: When they asked for the DNR's "plan" for stocking Gull they had nothing written down. They didn't really have their ducks in a row like they should have and they got caught on it. If they had we wouldn't be in this cat rodeo.
John, have you seen their criteria? What they have on paper is pretty pathetic and I'm for stocking muskies! I think it's 3 paragraphs and that's it.
The good thing about this whole ordeal is that the DNR's been pushed into creating a real muskie management plan. They haven't really done much in the last 20 year except keep the status quo. Now we'll be getting time tables for new lakes, thought on where to put them, a new look at resource allocation and some organization to the process that we haven't had in a couple decades.
BTW, the DNR is VERY unhappy about this whole thing and they are on our "side". Check out some of the discussions on the muskie research forum for more details on this subject. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3165
| I was at this MMA meeting just over two weeks ago,,,Its too bad that Pokegama and Gull got linked together ,,Pokegama was much farther along in the process to be stocked.
The crime in all this is that we all felt so bad because of all the work the 'Star of the North" muskies inc chapter has done on this the past 3+ years just because some bigmouth with no evidence to support his rants pops off,,,we really should challenge this guy to a public debate either in public or on one of the radio stations that have outdoor programs,,At the Gull lake public input meeting the muskie guys did a great job of picking apart his biased self spun view on muskie feeding habits,,I doudt he would get in the ring with us,Which would actually be a victory to point to
Edited by happy hooker 3/28/2007 8:33 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 382
| What is new DNR commissioner's (Holsten) take on this? How does a group like SRMM come in at the 11th hour and dismantled what the MDNR and MI have worked on the last few years? Has SRMM done anything to help the DNR in the past like MI has ( spring test netting, launch cleanups, donations etc.)? If the DNR is very upset about this, why can't they do something about it??
|
|
| |
|
|
Yah the criteria isn't a real indepth thing, basically a lake has to have so many litoral acres, have max depth of X feet, have a good forage base, have a pike population that is under so many per/net when sampled, and probably a few more things.
While there isn't pages of stuff, it's that criteria that made some awesome lakes today , that have great walleye, crappie, bass and northern populations to boot.
Bob Strand is the man who came up with the plan.
I am glad to hear that a long range plan will be developed, it'll be good to get exactly what we can expect out in the open for the future.
I just hope these guys causing the stink will accept what the DNR tells them, and not keep pushing the issue when they are confronted with the reality that they are wrong about the DNR not knowing what they are doing.
JS
|
|
| |
|
| Due to this being a joint resolution from all concerned interests (Spearer's, Anti's, NI same as Anti's General Public and Muskie interest) it will remove the voice of the squeaky wheels relevance to the stocking issue, unless all concerned members can agree to do this stocking of Pokegama of which we all did with the exception of one member of the group, he's gonna be a real problem for the next 6 months, I hope at the next workshop we can spend 20 min trying to get a resolution on that lake otherwise all stocking will be put on hold (as Treats stated) till the 2008-2017 stocking criteria come out after the August meeting. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Komer, we're working on getting an audience with Holsten in the next couple weeks. We're also probably going to have another meeting before this August to discuss Pokegama (nothing's planned yet but we're working on it). At the meeting I'm going to call a vote on it and hold all parties accountable. The spearers have been playing both sides of the fence and NI has said to John that it's all about Gull and has no opinion about Pokegama. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 382
| Shawn,
Thanks again for all time and effort in this. Check out this "really factual" letter that appeared in the brainerd dispatch last week. I don't see any real facts in there! It just blows me away that these even get printed. It seems that NI is also against slots to IMPROVE their own fishery. Gay
Teen opposed to muskie stocking in Gull Lake
COMMENTARY
By KIM CARPER
I've been a northern pike fisherperson since I started fishing in the Northern's Inc. fishing club when I was 11 years old. I fell in love with it right away.
I'm now 16. Over the years I've watched as the lakes we fished on were stocked with muskies and then slotted.
The first tournament I ever fished was on Little Boy/ Wabedo when I was 11. Now we can't have a tournament on that lake because it has a slot. The reason the lakes are slotted is because the size of the northern pike is decreasing and needs to be improved. I believe a big factor in the size decrease is muskies. When muskies are stocked in a lake that has northern pike it's been my experience that the size of the pike decreases.
One of the best lakes for trophy pike is Gull Lake. Now there's a debate over whether or not muskies should be stocked in the lake. I don't want to see muskies stocked in Gull Lake for the reason that too many lakes that once were trophy pike lakes have been taken over by muskies. Prime examples of this are Cedar Lake and Lake Alexander. Our club used to fish Lake Alexander, but then muskies were stocked in the lake and it's been slotted. Cedar Lake isn't far behind. There have been significantly fewer trophy northerns coming out of Cedar Lake in recent years.
As far as I know there is no scientific evidence that the presence of muskies leads to a decrease in the size of northern pike, but because of lakes like Cedar and Alexander I have good reason to believe it does. There are very few trophy pike lakes left in Minnesota. Two of the best are Gull and Whitefish.
Right now I can catch a 30-inch northern on Gull Lake. When I'm 30 years old I want to be able to do the same. I'm afraid that if muskies are stocked in Gull Lake the trophy northerns will disappear. I'm not opposed to muskies or muskie fishing, but I oppose stocking them in a trophy pike lake. If I want to catch a muskie I can go to Mille Lacs.
At our club tournaments the person who catches the biggest fish of the day gets a "lunker cap." I'm determined to get one of those hats and I would like as many opportunities as possible. If trophy lakes, such as Gull, are stocked with muskies, then future northern fisher people will have fewer opportunities to catch trophy pike.
I haven't kept up with the specifics of this debate, but one thing I keep hearing is that both sides are doing this for the future fisher people. So far I've haven't heard much from those future fisher people. As one of them, I'd like to make my statement: I'm opposed to stocking muskies in Gull Lake.
Kim Carper is a student at Brainerd High School and a member of Northerns Inc.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 670
Location: Otsego, MN | Maybe people shoudn't spear all the Northerns over 30 inches!
I know some guys who like to spear up in that area and they spear the "eaters" they leave the 30"+ pike alone.
I woudn't really consider Whitefish a real trophy pike lake I have fished it for 20 years and caught maybe 6 fish over 5 pounds and that's what I would target while fishing the chain.
I've caught more 10lb pike in Little Boy and Wabedo (lakes with a slot) in the last 4 years than Whitefish in 20.
Isn't the slot supposed to create bigger pike???
It's to bad stuff like this gets published because your gonna have uneducated individuals read it and it will give them just one more reason to hate muskies. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | What I found interesting about the above article when I read it is that Kim Carper’s (the author) dad is the main Northerns Inc. member who’s putting up the big stink over all of this. I wonder who really wrote the article? At the very least, it’s obvious where this information came from….Daddy!
I do like the fact that Little Boy and Wabedo were brought up. Two native musky waters. The argument of the article was that “when muskies are stocked” that’s when slots are put into place. Interesting. How do these two lakes even make the discussion then?
People like this are out to make the uneducated believe that northern pike slots only happen on lakes with muskies. When the fact is that there is absolutely no relationship between northern pike slots and musky populations. The fact that they are brought up in the same breath is a perfect example of twisting the facts to support your own cause.
Aaron |
|
| |
|
Posts: 382
| Pedro,
You hit the nail on the head, don't spear the big ones, but that's all they want to do year after year, then they wonder where they all went. You and I both fish the longville area quite a bit, I always get decent pike there fishing muskie. Every Lake in the Brainerd are has a "voluntary slot" on pike 24-36", and it's not MI insisting on these slots! NI doesn't like slots can they can't transport these fish to the weigh in on shore at there tournery's plain and simple.
Ben |
|
| |
|
| If the writer is 16 years old and started fishing at 11, then he/she only would have fished Alex and Cedar as muskie lakes. Both lakes have been in the muskie management program for over 12 years.
Tom B |
|
| |
|
| I liked these points:
He says "it's been my experience". He's 16. What experience does he have?
Also, in what way would the introduction of Muskies into a lake have to do with a slot limit on Northern Pike?
He mentions himself, how there is no scientific basis that leads to the decrease in Pike populations or size due to Muskies being introduced to the lake.
That whole letter is without merit, biased, and borderline ridiculous. Are there not huge Pike in about every great Muskie lake in the State of Minnesota and Canada? It was bad enough when we had to explain to the Walleye guys how the top Walleye lakes in MN just happen to be LOADED with Muskies. Now we'll need to educate the Pike anglers too?
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | "Troyz
If you could get a moratorium stopping the next dark-house spearing season until research on the impact spearing has on Muskies that would really get their attention."
heres were we go wrong...that sounds all good and dandy until its PETA wanting a moratorium on ALL fishing(or hunting) seasons until research on the impact of angling is done, then its HOW DARE THEY, WHAT NUTJOBS! we cant use the same tactics we demonize others for using, and then claim to have the high ground in this whole thing.
this fight must be fought, rationally, level headed and using FACTS and education as the tools.
the letter is a joke, so why doesn't someone from the brainerd area have their son write a letter pointing out the errors in fact from the previous writer and even list where the information can be found that rebuts that young mans assertions. then those same "uneducated", otherwise uninterested readers will be swayed to our side and look upon future claims by members of that org with a grain of salt. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Someone write that article, and we will:
1) Publish it, all OutdoorsFIRST Sites
2) Send it to all the sources we have in MN for press release and articles
3) Set aside a thread in the Research Forum for everyone to discuss the issues, and invite the Pike group to contribute.
Get the facts out there. Otherwise, the 'other' facts will be all the public sees. |
|
| |
|
| As Brainerd High School has a class called "Dark House Spearing" (i'm serious) and it sounds like this young man probably goes there...............your tax dollars at work people. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 382
| It's actually a decoy carving class (folk art) not a spearing class. At the end of the class the students get to test out the works in the spearhouse. I believe they get to go spearing once during the quarter/semester. As stated before, this young ladies father is a big NI supporter. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2378
| "When muskies are stocked in a lake that has northern pike it's been my experience that the size of the pike decreases. "
Hmmmm...Vermilion? Mille Lacs?
Yeah, the Muskies really put the hurt on big pike in those two systems.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | "It's actually a decoy carving class (folk art) not a spearing class. At the end of the class the students get to test out the works in the spearhouse. I believe they get to go spearing once during the quarter/semester."
sounds to me like something that should be supported not discouraged in todays age. what we should be disgusted by is when they start having video game classes.
Edited by castmaster 3/30/2007 1:11 PM
|
|
| |
|
| it totally depends on what they are being taught while carving I guess. If that teen is any example, not the truth obviously. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Baldy,
I fish the Walleye opener on Vermillon, and after we get our limit (about 10:00am) we head out for some incredible Big Pike action.
using spinning gear with 20lb. test line and fluro leader my kids and I find most of the bigger pike in the shallow bays in 2-3ft of water.
We use spinner baits,rattle traps, cray fish looking Raplas, and small spring dawgs, ect. and have caught many 34-44" pike that are as much fun to catch as some muskies.
Vermillion is loaded with huge pike and not really targeted much as far as I can see.
Jerome
|
|
| |
