|
|
Posts: 3863
| I have a Martin Rebel recurve, one of those little guys, and have it rigged for bowfishing. After MANY misses, I've started to get it right. Went wading along the shore and nailed 3 tonight, biggest was almost as long as the arrow, maybe 10 pounds. A buddy and I speared 4 a couple nights ago.
So, I'm slimed, though muskie season doesn't open here until May.
I'm killing the fish based on the premise that they are bad for the lake, i.e., they reduce the quality of walleye, bass and other gamefish populations. Would you agree with this? I'm a little concerned that I'm not doing anything useful, just killing innoncent critters. If I'm not helping the lake then I'm going to stop. What do you think? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 605
Location: Marshfield, WI | Last summer, I was talking to a guy that said he kills every dogfish he catches. He either slits their throat and throws them back or throws them on shore for the birds. He said the same thing as you about them eating all the other fish. He also said the same thing for pike, about them eating up all the perch and everything. He eats those though, doesn't just kill them like the dogfish. Day after he told me that, I had a 40" dogfish follow a musky bait in.
Krishna |
|
| |
|
Posts: 232
Location: Sun Prairie, WI | I would advise not to throw them back into the lake after killing them, the tickets my son and friends got were expensive. |
|
| |
|
| I suspect it's the same bs that people say about muskies eating all the gamefish in a lake. Personally I think dogfish are pretty cool... I've even caught one figure 8'ing a bucktail! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 605
Location: Marshfield, WI | yup, probably not a good idea to throw them back in the lake. I think that is what the guy did though. That same day I saw the 40" I had a smaller one hit a hounder on a fig-8. Just as we got the net ready it shook off. Probably 28" or so.
Krishna |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2112
Location: The Sportsman, home, or out on the water | kill them and feed them to your cats, bury them in the garden, whatever. Especialy if go to boom lake. There have been days where they would not leave my bucks alone. Think of them as out of state jet skiers, and treat them accordingly. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 28
| A local lake I fish with bowfin in it has a very healthy population of bass and pike so i dont really think they are harming the other gamefish or panfish. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Bowfin/doffish do compete with game fish populations. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | They most likely do compete, but is all competition bad? Do we know that they out compete game fish? I'm not really for killing things merely for the sake of killing. The argument of 'they are competing with all my game fish' sounds similar to the anti musky crowds argument that they are eating all 'their' walleyes (which is false). Just playing devils advocate a bit. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I didn't say 'out compete'.
Dogfish are a rough fish.
They do compete with game fish.
There's a difference between that and the 'muskies eat my walleyes' talk.
Gar are a rough fish, and a favorite target for bowfishermen. Ranger, shoot carp if you are worried about it. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3863
| Hmmm... Pride, "killing them for the sake of killing them" is all I'm doing if I'm not helping the lake.
Tonight, I'm going to have to wade out and gather up the dead fish because they are indeed laying on the lake bottom. I conked them on the head while on the arrow/spear and then heaved them out as deep as I could, which is not very far. They sink to the bottom and considering our clear water I suspect every one can be seen from the shoreline.
So far, opinion leans toward leaving the dogfish alone. What do others think? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2752
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Ranger, Have fun! If the MI DNR thought it was detrimental to the fisheries it would be illegal. You may want to consider using them for something other than lake fertilizer. Perhap's as fertilizer for your favorite potted plants.
I'm sure these guy's have a different perspective. Heck they even have recipes!
http://www.bowfinanglers.com/bowfininfo.html
Have fun!
Al |
|
| |
|
Posts: 654
Location: MPLS, MN | Whatever suits your opinion.
I love them. 2nd favorite after Muskie. If they grew in better populations I would specifically target them over Bass ect..
Plus why kill prehistoric fish? To me that makes them very uniqe.
Edited by Obfuscate Musky 3/27/2007 8:27 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 8776
| If its a non-native species that is proven to offset the balance of the ecosystem, by all means I say kill it. I'm with Ranger -- killing for the sake of killing is just plain wrong. Killing for the sake of eating is part of nature, don't have any problem with that. Killing something like carp? After seeing the damage they do to lake ecosystems, man, I have no problem spearing, shooting, gaffing, whatever-ing to get rid of them.
But back to dogfish for a minute... Steve, you said they are rough fish and they compete with gamefish... Are they detrimental to the lake ecosystem in your opinion, or just to the quality of the fishery?
(bad for the lake and bad for musky anglers aren't necessarily the same thing) |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | Why not just ask the local warden and/or biologist? They should have a handle on their relative worth in the system and how their numbers affect the balance of the fish assemblage. Also the legality of their disposal.
S. |
|
| |
|
| Kill them!
Why do guys post that they catch them on muskie lures and have them follow lures? Because they eat fish. Don't tell me that they don't, because I've seen them and I've caught them and have killed every one. I feel no guilt.
If I save some bedding bluegills or bass, I'm doing a good thing in my eyes.
They don't get to the size that they do by eating plankton. I see it as eliminating some of the competition. Are they a food source for other fish? Don't know.
I kill them when ever I catch them. |
|
| |
|
| I just read a couple of items that I searched up....Kill them!
Both articles noted that that have a voracious appetite for panfish and gamefish of all sizes and are very undesireable because of their "eating machine" way of life.
They and the Gar are the only fish left who are pretty much as they were when they were dinosaurs. They also cautioned that they eat anything and evrything, including the fingers and toes of fishermen who bring them into the boat.
They are not cosidered table fare...............so I say, Kill Them! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 561
Location: Monee, Illinois | Ranger in our private lake near Paw Paw we had a Dog Fish contest because our BIO told us that they have been affecting our game and pan fish. This was 6 years ago, we opened the lake for the weekend and ran a cash tournament. Over 150 Dog fish where caught and destroyed. Over the last 6 years I have never seen bigger crappie and bass and the pike are really starting to come on, perch and blue gill are really strong too and rock bass have made and apperence. I know you and I have talk about this before when we fished together. So yes get rid of them.....
pga |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | I dont disagree that they do eat other fish. And also do compete with other game species. But if you hook one, cut its throat and then toss it back whats the point? By you killing that one bowfin or gar are you going to extirpate them from your lake? Not a chance! For me I just dont see the point of killing it just to kill it. What does it benefit? How much have you changed the entire fishery?
Ranger, If you enjoy it by all means have at it. Sorno had a great idea about contacting a local manager and discuss the affects you may or may not have on the fishery. Take them home and toss them in a garden, grow yourself some big vegetables then you dont have to feel like you are wasting the fish.
Like others have said while I was writing this, if you stepped your efforts up to include multiple persons for an extended period of time you could reduce the population significantly. There you go....set up a bowfin shoot tournament and raise money for a local musky club!
Edited by Pointerpride102 3/27/2007 9:31 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 8776
| Well, Mike... Every one is one less. Will you erradicate them? Not likely. But stuff like what PGA took part in certainly can make a difference. As for killing them and putting them back in the water? I wonder if feeding the crayfish is a good thing... |
|
| |
|
| Killing dogfish to "save a few other specimens of more desirable species" is no different than the walleye guys who apply that sentiment toward muskies. So, applying that sentiment toward muskies is wrong, but applying it toward other species is OK? I smell a double standard here. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Jeffyd, that is sort of what I was getting at. Bowfin anglers may have the same sentiment towards muskies. Muskies compete with bowfin for the resource. Muskies compete with walleyes for the same resource, similar with Pike....quite the conundrum.
Addict, I agree, and ammended my post after reading what PGA posted while I was writing the original.....If Ranger could set something like that up with the backing of the local biologist a significant dent could be placed on the population.
Edited by Pointerpride102 3/27/2007 9:45 AM
|
|
| |
|
| Bass, northern pike and walleye compete with muskies, too. Maybe we should classify them as 'rough fish'... a completely subjective label by the way. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8776
| It's no different? For one thing, the presence of muskies in the ecosystem doesn't harm the walleye population. Then there's the distinction between game fish (desireable species) and rough fish (undesireable species), and the money spent trying to build sucessful muskie populations, the fact that there are size and posession limits for muskies and not dogfish, closed seasons for muskies and not dogfish...
According to the DNR the two fish are about as different as they come. I fail to see the double standard here.
Sort of like comparing eating a burger in a restaurant to eating your neighbors labrador, isn't it?
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | esoxaddict - 3/27/2007 9:55 AM
For one thing, the presence of muskies in the ecosystem doesn't harm the walleye population.
Not necessarily true if they are competing for the same forage. Muskies could out eat the walleyes. But walleye is not a top forage for muskies. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8776
| I suppose juvenile muskies and walleyes do compete for forage, I didn't think about that.
This is still one of my favorite quotes:
"Those stupid muskies are eating all the crappies!! I used to be able to go out on Friday and get FIFTY crappies for our fish fry! Now I'm lucky to get TEN! Stupid muskies are eating up the whole lake!"
Muskies, eatin up the whole lake, gotcha. Never met a musky with a belly like yours. And they only eat one at a time.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Right on Jeff! You get that a lot from people! My main point here was if you are going to kill the fish, at least do something with it...sure leaving it in the lake probably adds some organic matter to the lake bed and is consumed by different invertebrates, but if I were to kill them I'd find something to do with it. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8776
| I will never forget this as long as I live... (THIS POST COULD BE MISINTERPRETED BY SOME AS CONTAINING RACIAL OVETONES... IT DOES NOT)
This was round about 1977 best I can remember. Those of you who remember 1977 know what cars looked like back then, imagine a gold Pontiac Bonneville, maybe 1973 or so..
We used to camp at the marina on the South end of Silver lake in Kenosha County. Every spring big schools of carp would come into the bay and the creek to spawn. We'd assign a "lookout", someone to get up about 3:00 am and check the creek. If the lookout couldn't see the bottom through the carp, that lookout had the job of waking up everyone else, and out we would come, armed with spears, hunting knives, fillet knives, bats, golf clubs, and any other weapon we could get our hands on. Sometimes they'd be so thick you could just scoop them up and toss them on shore.
This became an annual ritual, and it wasn't uncommon for us to remove 100 carp from the lake in a single night.
Because I was the kid, I was the one who had the job of scooping them all up the next morning, piling them in a wheelbarrow, and dumping them way down the railroad tracks where they could rot and stink without offending anyone.
Well this particular morning, just as I was picking up the first few, a car (the big old Gold Bonneville) drives by, stops, backs up, and this dark complected fellow hangs out the window and says:
"man... them's all cahp?!"
ME: (all wide eyed) uh huh.
HIM: (more wide eyed than me) "WHA? You... you WANT 'EM?
ME: "uhhh... no?"
HIM: "Wuh... NO?!"
ME: (staring blankly)
HIM: "we take 'em?"
ME: "uhhh, ok..."
Well, this dude and his buddy picked up every last one of them carp, threw them in the trunk of that car and drove off with the back bumper just about dragging on the ground. As they were getting back in the car the guys buddy said "man... we been fishin down the river all mornin' caught ONE CAHP, man we come by here y'all got hunnert! We gonna EAT tonight!!"
They took em, and I guess they ate 'em. Hunnert of 'em!
The moral of the story here is pretty simple, and its what Mike eluded to in his last post... No matter what it is, how nasty it is, no matter that its been dead sitting in the sun, there's somebody out there who will eat it.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 3863
| Ok, thanks for the feedback everybody. I will contact the DNR, that's a good idea. Maybe I should mention that I'm seeing at least 30 dogfish in any 100 yard stretch of shoreline.
And I have determined a good use for the dead fish. There's this guy who borrowed $300 from me when he was in a bind. After 2 years he's paid $100 back and refuses to pay the rest. He lives in a trailer and I'm going to throw the dead dogfish on his roof. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | I guess that works, LOL! |
|
| |
