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Posts: 331
Location: Stevens Point, Wisconsin | Just wondering if anyone else has noticed over the past couple of years, the progress being made in WI to protect and enhance our musky fishery.
Remember a few years back the big push to increase the size limits on certain lakes to 50 inches in Vilas and Oneida counties? Many were very upset at the outcome and I have to admit that at the time, I was very depressed and remember thinking all was lost.
But then recently I started thinking about all the rule changes, size limit increases, advisory questions and proposals directly affecting musky waters in Wisconsin over the last couple years. We are making progress in increased size limits and better regulation. We are making progress and it is encouraging! Many of the proposals on the spring hearing ballot this year again have a Musky theme. We might not be making leaps and bounds but we are moving in the right direction! I applaud the efforts of all those individuals and clubs that have and are working hard to improve the musky fishery in Wisconsin!
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Location: Contrarian Island | I would agree there is a slow movement towards protecting and enhancing the musky in WI...it really comes down to the local clubs and a few people stepping up and moving things forward. Guys that did all the work on the Pelican change, the Fox Change, and now pushing for the 54" change...the Cap City club and the guys involved in getting the 45" size limit here really need to be applauded. |
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Posts: 5874
| Yup, progress is slow here in conservative WI. I stated several years ago that I didn't think trying to get all those lakes in Vilas and Oneida raised was a good approach. Too much at once. Now we are picking them off one at a time, and it seems to be working. Thanks to lots of people who started things, and saw them through. Too many to name here.
I am a bit concerned that the 54" limit on GB is not going to be enough, though. I know of one guy that bonked 6 last fall alone, including a 54# fish. I don't begrudge him that fish, but why the other 5? He's a bar owner, and taxidermist, so that answers part of that. |
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| As stocking, research, and conservation director for my Fox River Valley MI Chapter 39 club I am working with the WDNR in SE WI to introduce muskies into new lakes and watching slowly as size limits increase across the state. The pace of change is slow, but the more we can collectively do to improve the Wisconsin fisheries, the better. There is a tremendous amount of armchair quarterbacking that goes on but fisheries biologists need to research what is indeed best for the long-term health of the entire fishery (including muskies). Enough old world behavior and old world thinking |
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Posts: 743
| Shep, that's part of the problem, if you dont begrudge that guy who loves to kill all his legals, then you are not helping your state. Peer pressure will go further than "slowly educating"..
some people cant learn..some people wont learn. If you and others make even the smallest excuse for that guy, well then, you might as well have an excuse for every one who kills them in WI.
WI finally has a chance to gain something like a Mille Lacs....(Green Bay). But if the locals keep treating it the way they do..it will be just another WI lake with an occasional big fish...Nothing special.
You can't justify keeping all your 50's...you cant.
Edited by tomcat 3/20/2007 3:40 PM
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| Boycott his bar see how soon he learns C&R. Stuff like keeping that many big fish just slows down progress |
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Posts: 999
| I have been pondering on how Wisconsin does things so slow which I totally agree on and im starting to think that the musky community isn't even towards the top of the food chain when it comes to Funding. I was told that musky fisherman and women only make up ten percent of the total fishing population for WI and the other gamefish 90. So Musky's only recieve ten percent of the funds when it comes to stocking and research and that's how it is. WI anglers have to rely on the all of the local musky clubs along with the Musky Alliance to kick in the rest of the funding for the stocking and research programs. I dont understand where they get their numbers from? I can see in area's of the state where there isn't alot of musky water around there's probably not alot of Musky fisherman but where do they get this ten percent from is beyond me. I've never been asked if I fish for muskys or not have you? If you go buy a small game license they ask you if you duck hunt. Is it fair that we only recieve a small amount of funding????? I think that's why everything is happening so slow in WI. They really dont have a clue how big this sport really is and what it's potentials could be! So much potential with all the water and it's going at a snail's pace as far as stocking programs, research, and size limit's.
Any thoughts?
Mr Musky |
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Posts: 101
Location: Northern Illinois | That guy keeping all those trophy muskies is a misguided glory hound. How are we to break Louie Spray's record if people don't release these monsters. I don't begrudge a guy keeping one for the wall, I've got one myself. You just have to draw the line somewhere. I'm all for raising the minimum size limits, especially on lakes that have shown their fish genetics have a history of producing huge muskies. The DNR must use caution when stocking, you really don't want an inferior slow growing small strain to mix with historically superior stock. |
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Posts: 5874
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For the rest, the biggest reason things move so slowly on these issues, is the Conservation Congress/Spring hearings process itself. Purely political, it leaves important regulations up to the public to vote on. How silly, when the state has wildlife and fisheries biologists and managers on it's payroll, and they are not able to do their jobs.
Whatever happened to the Musky Stamp initiative of a year or two ago? I thought that was a great idea. Did it come up for a vote at the spring hearings, and get defeated? A great source of funding for muskie programs, and would only really affect those who target muskies. Just like the waterfowl and salmon stamps.
So I encourage everyone to attend the spring hearings and be heard. Speak up, and then vote.
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Posts: 52
| What's wrong nothing about Minnesota? It's going to be interesting if it happens when a Minnesota records turns out to be a Wisconsin fish. I'm big on habitat and water quality myself and would like too see more in that area like zoning laws and pollution regulations. Next in line a database for quanity and classification of baitfish.
Not sure what's the problem about 50+ fish. You can go down to Muskytale and see huge musky spawn, last year over 50-inches. Genetics are there so it's in part biology and how we care and use our resource. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | So a 54" minimum size limit is on the agenda for Green Bay. That will work one hell of alot better than insulting Wisconsin Muskie anglers in general or attacking one specifically. Want to see something positive done? Help us get the word out about this proposed CC question.
Increased size limits have been going into effect every year on Wisconsin trophy waters. This Spring Pelican goes to 50".
It isn't ANYONE'S right, obligation, or anything else to decide who 'justifies' anything. I'm really tired of that line of garbage. All the self appointed Muskie Protectorate Brigade Members should actually DO something to assist in regulation change here and wherever else you and yours live; joining the real world ACTUAL conservationists who have done just that like Reef Hawg, Nwild, Mike Roberts, Treats, and a host of others who make far less angry, inane noise and achieve far more real results than the Self Appointed Computer Monitor Muskie Cops ever will.
In the process, these 'for real' conservationists are getting it done for our future trophy Muskie fishing in the states where they reside. It doesn't fly to try to work both sides of the fence. I'm sick of the self righteous crap handed out by a few fringe 'C&R EXTREME' yokels who are far better at being critical than achieving ONE single thing they insist to be so important to them.
Less noise, more action. Do what we can in the real world to get more trophy water protected. Learn the difference between trophy water and that which isn't and will never be and the WHY of it all. Work WITH the DNR and the general public to achieve our goals. Understand the social issues, biology, and resulting management issues our DNR fisheries biologists have to work with instead of presuming to lecture ACTUAL scientists from the unwashed Computer bully pulpit. Understand that we as Muskie anglers are in the extreme minority. That's exactly what many of us are doing in Wisconsin, Minnesota, and other states.
Mr.Musky, in much of the muskie world, we are 5% of the fishing population. |
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Posts: 1536
Location: God's Country......USA..... Western Wisconsin | Was going to post reply but Steve has reflected my sentiments to a tee. Well said my friend, well said. |
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| wheresthelove - 3/21/2007 6:40 AM
sworrall - 3/18/2007 7:35 PM
This is a publication, not a personal soap box. We would welcome any fishing information you wish to share, answers to questions you wish to provide, or conversation you wish to contribute.
Past that, we have fairly stringent posting permissions that prohibit personal bashing, pointless arguing, vendettas, rude or untoward banter...you get the picture.
Steve's post carefully avoiding personally singling anyone out and attacking them as a person. it specifically identified actions that he found objectionable and presented alternative suggestions. passion? sure.
that, my Indiana friend, is the very definition of being straightforward without being personal.
there's a huge difference between saying "you're wrong" and saying "you're a bad person."
what Steve did was the former.
constant stereotyping of all WI anglers as fish-killers is the latter.
"Deeds Not Words"...
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Sorry to express my opinion.
Edited by MikeHulbert 3/21/2007 8:40 AM
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Location: The Yahara Chain | sworrall - 3/20/2007
It isn't ANYONE'S right, obligation, or anything else to decide who 'justifies' anything. I'm really tired of that line of garbage. All the self appointed Muskie Protectorate Brigade Members should actually DO something to assist in regulation change here and wherever else you and yours live; joining the real world ACTUAL conservationists who have done just that like Reef Hawg, Nwild, Mike Roberts, Treats, and a host of others who make far less angry, inane noise and achieve far more real results than the Self Appointed Computer Monitor Muskie Cops ever will.
In the process, these 'for real' conservationists are getting it done for our future trophy Muskie fishing in the states where they reside. It doesn't fly to try to work both sides of the fence. I'm sick of the self righteous crap handed out by a few fringe 'C&R EXTREME' yokels who are far better at being critical than achieving ONE single thing they insist to be so important to them.
Well said, sir.
Self Appointed Computer Monitor Muskie Cops  |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | i'll echo the message from lakesuperiorkid ... he's onto something i think could provide balance. of course we all want what we want for our reasons, but not unlike indiana the stocking, funding and research isn't just for the hard-core focused angler but for the general tourism business and this doesn't exclude other states. if there were more harvest in minnesota coupled with the solid fisheries and baitfish, the stocking class continues to grow and support the change ... of course this assumes all is within reason. wisconsin would do well to focus energy on habitat and forage base to support an already healthy number of fish with the capability to grow .... there are two sides of this and both will help ... one is of course the support of higher limits and continued education of the positive results of catch and release ... the other is in support of making the current waters the best they can be to support natural reproduction and the growth of the fish in the pool.
the time to call the genetics argument ridiculous has never had more support from evidence. let's focus on the water and what's in it and grow lots of big fish instead of focusing so much on the fish that survive the current conditions.
in no way do i support harvesting big fish, but we've got to deal with the reality and be constructive. making our own laws will never do anything but separate us from the very people we need the support from and if you call fishing in today's water bad, well you've lived in another planet than i have the past 42 years. it's better than ever and continuing to improve dispite what seems to be the popular vote.
actually the best thing for us locals would be for people to believe half the stuff written to keep people driving through so we can continue to fish the waters that are unique to their own and fun to fish. |
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Location: The Yahara Chain | MikeHulbert - 3/21/2007 7:25 AM
WI will always be WI...
Why do you think we all travel to MN now to fish/guide.
People find every reason under the sun to justify keeping a big fish....yet look down on people who stand up for strong catch and release ethics.
WI will always be WI.....They need to stop killing their fish, and their big fish.....
Pretty simple to me.
I don't see anybody justifying the fish that were kept on the Fox. I see some locals being led by Dennis Radloff working very hard to get a size limit increased.
I fail to see how all of the childish remarks about Wisconsin are accomplishing anything.
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Sorry to have an opinion
Edited by MikeHulbert 3/21/2007 8:40 AM
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| Mike, people will and are starting to travel back to WI because of the fishery turning around. Now is the important time for size limit changes. Trust me, if I wanted to catch a world class fish I wouldn't go to MN. I'd stay in WI. If we don't protect these fish that are growing in the Bay the stocking effort is futile.
There is just as much harvesting in MN. Look at the no more muskies group over there. You don't think they killed fish? I'm willing to bet you stop and fish WI in five or six years because of all the big fish it's putting out.
Ty |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Sorry to have an opinion
Edited by MikeHulbert 3/21/2007 8:40 AM
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Mike, Mike....
You try to simplify, reduce, and encapsulate more than 100 years of muskie history here in Wisconsin into a couple negative, totally unfounded, mean spirited attack phrases.
Believe me, harvest (especially of big fish) is a happening in Minnesota. It's happening in your state, too.
You go to Minnesota because of the burgeoning new or reasonably newly discovered Muskie fisheries there. You follow the big fish reports, and can do that because of your profession. Those waters will peak, just like many here did, and if harvest, water quality issues, spawning habitat, and all the other issues effecting the muskie population are not controlled they will decline. Fortunately, there is a dedicated group of folks in the Muskies Inc clubs over there doing their best to protect the fisheries you now guide.
That's fine. What you said in your last post, though, is EXACTLY what I was addressing.
Don't you DARE challenge the personal support and efforts over the last 25 years to promote and accomplish a strong C&R ethic. You were still googling at a baby toy when the first group of Muskie Conservationists were beginning the long road to getting C&R where it is today. It's because of those folks work across the range of the Muskie you HAVE the fisheries you are fishing today.
Then you edit your post to say 'sorry to have an opinion?' What's that? Your opinion is just as valid as mine, or Sled's, or Bytor's. The rest of the folks who posted here have no problem trying to answer challenges and questions about their stance and beliefs, why should you?
The process of making progress is a slow one, and Sled and Bytor have done a good job pointing out why. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | but no different than what's going to become of delayed mortality from lack of experience, the trolling pontoon tours or the walley protectors in minnesota. the "fishery" can be the priority and "grow" fish to support losses with current stocking efforts. wisconsin isn't the only place where muskies are being taken in numbers. the musky will never become the bald eagle ... so how do we grow the renewable populations in numbers?
hillbillies and tourists aren't exclusive and have their own understanding very different than ours and they are found in indiana, wisconsin, minnesota and missouri ... and the entire sport operates diffently in the real world than in the boats of musky fishermen. changing something you have no control over is a tough thing to do and is a whole lot more complicated than what gets written and discussed "within" the community of musky fishermen.
the guys that penetrate the areas where problems that threaten them are need to have a broader sense of the issues including funding purposes by the state agencies and the things important to the novice crowd of tourists, or the bass and walleye protectors that become a threat and walk a mile in their moccosins to get anything worthwhile accomplished. they don't know any better and believe their own arguments are right ... how do we change them? ... not by sending the predominant "site" message for sure.
it's like putting protest marches on spearing ... talk about motivation to bring out people who otherwise wouldn't be out! ... threatening and calling foul is an approach with predictable outcomes.
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Posts: 8781
| This is like watching someone bomb cast a suick into the wind and waiting for the inevitable "bzzzzzOTTT* sound!! It's just a matter of time until someone has the mother of all backlashes and everyone else has to stop fishing and try to help them get it out because there's line all over the place...
There are several people in this sport who are responsible for GETTING THINGS DONE that help ALL of us catch more fish and bigger fish wherever we go. Those people don't seen to be bickering back and forth about what the issues suppsoedly are, arguing about what's wrong with WI, etc. They're doing what has to get done to make things BETTER.
Seems the rest are on the internet bickering about things they don't have a CLUE about, only that they heard it in a bar somewhwere and it sounded good. Questioning each others professionalism, apologizing for having an opinion instead of trying to justify that opinion with some facts or research... Its like a bunch of school girls arguing about whose hair looks better. Do yourselves a favor, find out who is out there making a difference. Then listen to what THEY have to say, and form your opinions. And for crying out loud, if you're acting in such a way that undermines their efforts, that makes us all look like idiots, that sets a rotten example for all of us as anglers and people, please shut up already.
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | hey Jeff ... you just threw the suick in the wind |
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| yeah, but he's got one of those fancy magneto-brake reels that are backlash proof.  |
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| Looks like my post got yanked allready! O well. Minnesota will make many fisherman famous, Fisherman wont make Minnesota famous the DNR has allready done that. Enough on that.
Mr Musky |
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Posts: 299
Location: Nowheresville, MN | Mr Musky - 3/20/2007 6:00 PM
I dont understand where they get their numbers from?
They really dont have a clue how big this sport really is and what it's potentials could be! So much potential with all the water and it's going at a snail's pace as far as stocking programs, research, and size limit's.
Any thoughts?
Mr Musky
Phone and mail surveys.
This sport is growing and has become important especially within the last decade. However, to think that it is pursued more than panfish, walleyes, and yes even bass, is silly (trout may even be more popular). There are more boats on the Wolf River from Shawano to Lake Poygan during one day of the walleye run than musky boats in all of the state on opening day.
People do not like change. The money has to come from somewhere to go somewhere. How do you justify taking away from something that has been for decades (i.e. walleye stocking)? The only solution to this problem...a musky stamp or similar. |
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| I do agree that were way out numbered but I think were still higher then five or ten percent. And how many people are multi-species anglers?
I also agree the a Musky Stamp would be the best thing for the musky fishing since C&R became popular. 1. It would help out the much needed funding. 2. It would eliminate the little Johnny syndrome because you would be required to have a stamp to keep a fish. 3. You would really see how many anglers do musky fish!
I heard this idea was brought up a few years ago along with a grouse stamp and was shot down immedietly.
Mr Musky |
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Posts: 52
| Thanks I think we do need to change from this endless genetics debate and focus on the conservation of the musky, which of course has implications for other fish as well. You take the right water, the right forage, take care of it, and the fish will respond if they are genetically diverse to handle the changes that come around. I'm going to also echo the fact that not all of our fish are going to get 50-inches. I don't care about Nancy Lake since it's just a snapshot of brief study. Some of our waters will never have the right elements to produce huge fish. Way it goes so that's a good place to have lower size limits and send people off who want to keep a musky. That's a good place for them. And there are people that nothing better than to come to a flowage and at least see musky. Does everything have to be 60-inches? No. Some waters have low alkalinity and that affects things. When this musky debate got going it appeared to be nothing but trophy fish in everyone's eyes. Well, they take a lot of them out as well I am sure. Where does that take you eventually? Hook lots of them that die and sink and you never see them either.
This really reminds me of the coaster brook trout thing. It was all genetics, get the right fish, the magic bullet, and off we go. Well, go where. The habitat is completely destroyed so waste another 23-million brook trout to accomplish nothing. Get on the habitat and that's a much better start. We lost Musky Bay here to years of sedimentation and landowners played a big part of it and so did development. So you got good genes and nothing for them. You got to have both. Chief River was bought up finally. It's just not the sport fish that used them it was also the bait fish that spawned as well.
Catch-and-release has benefited everyone and in every catergory of fishing. It is a good useage-ethic. You know we are not back in the by-gone days when our lakes were younger and they had to stock just to keep up with the 30-inch fish being taken. Most of our lakes could easily produce them if they stocked that heavily again. We got more people now and better stuff to fish with. Things are better and bigger right now in waters that can produce those fish.
I just agree that this genetics thing has been batted to death. Sloss knows his stuff so work on the parts of the pie and put the energies where they need to go or not go. Again, I still like to see a forage database for our waters in terms of types and quanities. That might be down the road. If I am wrong I stand corrected. |
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Posts: 556
| in my opinion i think they both have muskys so its cool. I think alot of people are just defending the state they grew up fishing in and miss the point of fishing. having fun ,thats it people have fun! to me fishing is the most important thing to me ill fish anywere lol i fished in one of those puddles you get because the ground is still frozen and had a blast testing out my lures. |
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