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Posts: 331
Location: Stevens Point, Wisconsin |
FYI,
Would be a great step FWD by WI DNR is this goes through! IMHO
By Jim Lee
Gannett Wisconsin Newspapers
MADISON -- Quick-strike rigs would be required of most musky anglers using live bait under a fishing regulation change proposed by the Department of Natural Resources.
Musky anglers will vote on the proposal, along with several others affecting their sport, during this spring’s statewide fish and wildlife rules hearings set for 7 p.m. on April 16 in each county.
A favorite technique of musky anglers -- particularly in autumn -- is to trail a large sucker behind their boat while casting artificial lures. In the past, the traditional method would be to attach the bait to a single hook inserted in its mouth.
When a musky attacked the bait, anglers often waited up to a half-hour for the musky to swallow the bait so a proper hook set could be obtained. This often resulted in a musky that could not be released with a favorable certainty of survival.
Quick-strike rigs, which have become increasingly popular, typically contain a single hook inserted in the suckers mouth, along with a trailing treble hook attached to the sucker's back. Thus when a musky strikes the bait, there is a good chance an immediate hook set will be successful and the odds improved that a musky can be safely released if desired.
The proposal, which would require all anglers to use a quick-strike rig when using live bait larger than eight inches, is among 25 potential fishing regulation changes to be voted on, including:
-- Extend the musky fishing season in the southern zone until Dec. 31. The boundary between the southern and northern zones is Highway 10. This change would prolong the musky fishing season on Lake Winnebago and most associated lakes from the current Nov. 30 ending.
-- Eliminate current restriction that places a 36-inch maximum on landing net openings. The change is sought by musky and salmon anglers.
-- Increase the minimum length limit for muskies caught on the St. Louis River and St. Louis Bay in Douglas County to 50 inches.
-- Increase the minimum length limit for muskies caught in connecting waters to Madison lakes to 45 inches.
-- Change trout and walleye bag and length limits on Keyes Lake, Florence County in an attempt to reduce the smelt population.
-- Remove five miles of the Prairie River (from R&H Road to Highway 17) in Lincoln County from Category 5 to Category 4 at the request of local anglers.
-- Establish a 14 to 18-inch protected slot for bass on Mission Lake in Marathon County.
-- Reduce the daily walleye bag limit on Butternut Lake in Price County to one fish more than 14 inches.
-- Change the northern pike regulations on Crystal Lake, Sheboygan County, to no minimum length with a five-fish daily limit.
-- Require a background check on applicants for angler education instructor, similar to what is required of hunter, boating, ATV and snowmobile safety instructors. In those fields where a background check is currently required, about 19 applicants annually fail, according to the DNR.
The Conservation Congress has submitted proposals for fishing rule changes, including:
-- Raise the minimum size on angler-harvested muskies on the Wisconsin River in Lincoln County between Kings Dam and Pride Dam to 40 inches.
-- Close the catfish fishing season on the Winnebago system from Dec. 1 to April 1.
-- Change northern pike regulations on the Winnebago system to allow the taking of two pike daily, with one larger than 26 inches. Current regulations allow two fish with a 26-inch minimum size.
Prior to the voting on fish and game rule changes, hearing attendees will vote on delegates to the Conservation Congress from their county.
All voting will be by electronic ballots. No hand counts will be taken.
Those registering for the hearing will be given a white ballot for DNR rule change proposals and a blue ballot for Congress questions. Only pencils may be used to mark ballots. Only those registering at a hearing site will be allowed to vote.
Citizens may also introduce resolutions that can be voted on in their county. If acted on favorably, those issues may become statewide ballot items at future hearings.
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Posts: 2068
Location: Appleton,WI | I believe these are some steps forward for the WI DNR and am excited to see a few changes. |
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Posts: 1270
| It sounds like this law would have as much gray area as the current "position fishing" law. The last thing we need is another law! |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I'd vote for the new quick strike regulation. |
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Posts: 107
Location: milwaukee | I'd also vote 'yes' for the quick-strike reg. Based on what I read here, the guys that have been perfecting circle hook (not 'single', 'circle') techniques will be able to continue on. |
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Posts: 299
Location: Nowheresville, MN | "Eliminate current restriction that places a 36-inch maximum on landing net openings. The change is sought by musky and salmon anglers."
What?? |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Didn't know that, eh? |
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Posts: 8781
| So technically a Frabil Big Kahuna is not a legal net??? |
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| Doesn't a cradle violate that restriction?
Add me to the list of people who didn't know that regulation existed....or why?
Beav |
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Posts: 9
| I am for most of these chages including quick strike rigs, going to higher size limits for muskies in Wisconsin on certain lakes is always a good thing and extending the musky season in the southern part of the state.
I would also like to find out how I would go about getting a higher size limit on muskies on Silver Lake in Kenosha county and have that on the voting as well this year. Thanks in advanced.
Doug Kloet
http://www.muskymagictackle.com |
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Posts: 1270
| As for the 36" opening on landing nets I did not know that nor did the 5 Wardens I asked about it this winter!
I will say it again that there is to much gray area in the proposed law.
What constitutes a quick strike rig?
Must the hooks be set immediatly?
If so what is considered immediatly?
Does this also pertain to ice fishing?
Does a 9" night crawler now have to be on a quick strike rig?
How does a circle hook fit into this regulation? Even though they are not tha popular in musky fishing circle hooks are gaining popularity in catfihing circles.
Education is the key to this, not a new law. |
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Posts: 1270
| The Stowmaster musky net would not be legal either!
Like I said when I first heard of this "relaxing" of the size restriction on landing nets I asked every Warden I knew and saw at the shows and none of them knew there was any limit and they all said that they were not going to be writing tickets wether the limit changed or not! |
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Posts: 8781
| Education will not solve the problem of the guys out there who use single hook sucker rigs, let the fish swallow the hook, and then just cut the leader thinking that
A. the hook will dissolve
B. the fish swam off therefore it is fine
You can try to educate people, but the ones who are doing it will continue to do so because that's what they always did, and they will not believe that the fish die because they see them swim off with their own eyes. In this case the only way is to just outlaw single hook rigs. I don't think there's much gray area in a law that states "when using live bait over 8 inches a quickstrike rig must be used."
Can a fish swallow a quickstrike rig? Certainly, if you let it. But the rig ittself is designed to be used in a way that doesn't allow that to happen. When the fish takes the sucker you set the hook.
As for circle hooks? I don't se that becoming an issue as long as the 8" rule applies.
Edited by esoxaddict 3/19/2007 12:38 PM
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Posts: 1270
| So does my 9" night crawler now have to be on a quick strike rig?
What is the purpose of requiring a quick strike rig if the hook does not have to be set immediatly? |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The point of a quick strike IS to have 'quick' hookset. |
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Posts: 1270
| Sworrall, I agree with you and I only use quick strike rigs but my point is that unless the law is written a lot more specific that that it is above this law would be so full of gray area that enforcement could be a nightmare! I don't think that any of us want another law written like the position fishing law. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The rule change is designed to end single hook, J style swallow rig use. Education as to what a Quick Strike rig is about will be paramount. |
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Posts: 1270
| Sworrall, Not trying to argue but since no one will answer my simple question about a 9" night crawler I will assume that no one knows for sure. This tells me that nobody really knows the particulars of this proposed law. As I said before it sounds liek a lot of gray area. |
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| About time, larger than 8 inch live bait as stated |
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Posts: 999
| Im still not understanding the 36 inch maximum on the net, are they even sure they dont mean a 36 inch minimum on the opening of the net?
Mr Musky |
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Location: The Yahara Chain | reelman - 3/19/2007 4:17 PM
Sworrall, Not trying to argue but since no one will answer my simple question about a 9" night crawler I will assume that no one knows for sure. This tells me that nobody really knows the particulars of this proposed law. As I said before it sounds liek a lot of gray area.
Are you serious? I don't think anybody is going to care how big your night crawler is. I will bet my last nickel on the fact that a warden will never measure a night crawler.
The purpose of the law would be to help protect the resource. J hooks that are swallowed kill the fish. If it means that circle hooks that are swallowed can't be used, so be it. Quick strikes are a much safer method. Everybody that supports C and R should support this. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The obvious intent is Live Bait used for MUSKIES. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Do we know if the way Musy Time has presented it is the way it will be brought up at the hearings? Not criticizing Musky Time for posting (thanks for doing so!!), but it looks like that is what was printed in the newspaper, and it may not be how it is written for a proposed law. Anyone know?
One other thing....I think if you have a ton of questions, you should attend one of the hearings and you can voice your opinions and get the questions you want answered.
Edited by Pointerpride102 3/19/2007 6:01 PM
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Posts: 52
| I'm not for any new laws myself but the educational factor of this might make the wardens work a lighter. I think that although the rigs work, it's simply going too far. What do you do if you are around sturgeon? I think they use big single hooks on them and there are, for example, sturgeon in some of our musky waters. Would this apply to Native Americans as well in the spring who use set-lines and single hooks?
I've used circle hooks with great success. But I really think this might be going too far.
Was wondering if the proposed slot limit for pike in northern pike got in? Lake Superior needs it. |
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| If someone wants to kill a fish, they'll find a way to do it. It's not the J hook's fault that people use them the way they do. I use single (non circle) hooks all the time, they are perfect for forage smaller than 8 inches. 99 percent of the shops don't even carry the style hooks anymore. I'm afraid of more laws that are grey. It will affect me and I don't kill fish. I use quick strikes with large suckers always, but not when I'm using a bluegill or a chub and I'm casting them. It's too grey and will cause futher unnecessary contraversy in the future. Wash this one away, it's dangerous.
My suggestion is to spend the same amount of effort educating people on proper morals and more ideal size limits for all species.
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Posts: 1270
| I agree that anybody concerned woith C&R should use quick strike rigs. I do myself. My problem is a law that is written so vaugly that know one knows for sure what it means.
I'm sure when the position fishing law was written it was clearly to prohibit trolling, but it has morphed into 100 different meanings depending on which Warden you talk to. I would not be opposed to this law IF it was clearly written to pertain to muskys only and did not have any gray area. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Here is how the proposed changes are worded and how they will appear on the ballot. These were the musky related changes that I could find. I couldnt fint the 54" proposal for the Green Bay system, but I hope this helps:
(If approved, these proposed rule changes would take effect on April 1, 2008, unless otherwise indicated.)
Question 1: Eliminate Maximum Size Restriction for Landing Nets
Currently, landing nets must be 3 feet in diameter or less in order to be legal. There are many commercially available landing nets available that exceed 3 feet in diameter, particularly for muskellunge and salmon anglers. This proposal would eliminate the size restriction on landing nets and would allow the use of any size net to aid anglers in landing a legally hooked fish. Landing nets of any size are already prohibited for the capture of fish that are not already hooked.
?? Do you favor eliminating the size restriction on landing nets?
Question 2: St. Louis River and St. Louis Bay Muskellunge Regulations
The St. Louis River and St. Louis Bay are large water bodies capable of producing large muskellunge for anglers. Increasing the minimum length limit to 50 inches would help meet proposed goals for 20% of angler caught fish to be larger than 45 inches and 5% larger than 50 inches.
The capacity of these waters to produce meaningful numbers of large muskellunge is currently not being realized. The population is low density, the water body is large and forage is plentiful. Recent angling reports indicate that some fish are reaching the 50-inch mark but more intensive fisheries netting surveys and angler diary reporting show that very few fish are currently larger than 45 inches. A high-quality, low-density population can be maintained without impacts to other fish populations.
Minnesota has already approved and will institute a 50 inch minimum length limit for Minnesota waters of the St. Louis River and St. Louis Bay in 2008. Increasing the minimum length limit to 50” on the Wisconsin side would also maintain consistency between the states. Anglers and law enforcement agents would not have to deal with different regulations depending on what location they fished on these waters.
?? Do you favor increasing the minimum length limit for muskellunge from 40 inches to 50 inches on the St. Louis River and St. Louis Bay, Douglas County, Wisconsin (border water with Minnesota)?
Question 10: Muskellunge Regulation Extension to Madison Lakes Connecting Waters
The current restriction on harvest of muskellunge in lakes Monona, Waubesa, and Wingra is a 45 inch minimum length limit. The fish that frequent and migrate within the Yahara River, Upper Mud Lake, Murphy Creek, and other tributaries are of lakes Monona, Waubesa, and Wingra origins. This regulation provides a consistent level of protection from harvest while fish frequent these waters. The regulation allows fish to recruit into the trophy class consistent within the spirit and intent of the lake regulations.
?? Do you favor increasing the minimum length limit from 34” to 45” for muskellunge in all tributaries to Lakes Monona, Waubesa, and Wingra, including the Yahara River upstream to the Tenney Locks, and Murphy, Nine Springs, Starkweather, and Wingra Creeks?
Question 36: Extension of Southern Zone Muskellunge Season
The objective of this proposal is to gauge public interest in increasing muskellunge fishing opportunity for anglers by lengthening the season from November 30 until December 31.
The Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources has greatly expanded the range of muskellunge in Wisconsin by stocking. Originally, the range of muskellunge in Wisconsin was concentrated in north central Wisconsin, waters in the Chippewa River basin, and in the Mississippi River. The expansion of the range has included southern Wisconsin waters and anglers can now enjoy fishing for muskellunge 41 lakes and 4 rivers managed for muskellunge south of Highway 10. Interest in musky fishing has also increased dramatically in recent years and we notice more fishing pressure directed at muskellunge in the fall months right up to the close of the season on November 30. Musky anglers have requested the Department to extend the season, so they can have additional opportunities to pursue muskellunge in the late fall. The Department believes that this species is adequately protected by appropriate regulations in this part of the state, so we do not think this proposal will hurt the populations.
?? Would you favor extending the muskellunge season in the southern Wisconsin zone from November 30 until December 31? The opening date of the season would remain the first Saturday in May.
Question 37: Use of Quick-Strike Rigs When Using Live Bait Larger Than 8 Inches In Total Length
The objective of this proposal is to gauge public interest in requiring the use of “quick-strike” rigs when fishing with large live bait for large predatory fish such as muskellunge. A recent study conducted and published by DNR scientists concluded that when single hooks are used and fish such as musky are allowed to swallow the bait, mortality was more than 80% within one year, even when the line was cut and the fish was released quickly.
Use of live bait for angling of muskellunge is popular in Wisconsin. A traditional method utilizes a large hook through the bait fish’s snout, which requires the muskellunge to swallow the bait prior to hook set. Adult muskellunge (>76 cm; 30 in) were held in lined hatchery ponds and caught while fishing with live bait on 10/0 size single hooks. The leader was cut and the muskellunge was released when hooked in the stomach. Survival was monitored for up to 1 year. No immediate (< 24 h) mortality occurred. However, 22% of hooked muskellunge died within 50 days and 83% died within 1 year. Necropsies revealed extensive trauma to the stomach and other organs from hooks, along with systemic bacterial infections. Highest mortality on both hooked and control fish occurred over winter through spring. This peak mortality may be associated with natural stressors that occur during the spring spawning period. Mortality rates observed in this study are considered unacceptable for trophy management of muskellunge. Although use of live bait for muskellunge is traditional in Wisconsin, terminal tackle such as quick-strike rigs that hook fish in the mouth should enhance the chances a released muskellunge will survive.
A suggestion is to adopt language similar to that used in Illinois:
When using live bait, all live bait in excess of 8 inches in total length shall be rigged with a quick set rig. The hook shall be immediately set upon the strike. A quick set rig is defined as follows: a live bait rig with up to 2 treble hooks attached anywhere on the live bait, with single hooks prohibited.
?? Would you favor requiring use of quick-strike rigs when using live bait larger than 8 inches in total length?
Question 82: Size Limit on Muskellunge on the Wisconsin River
A large number of muskies are being harvested from Lake Mohawksin and the Wisconsin River between Kings Dam and Pride Dam in Northern Lincoln County. At present the size limit is 34”. These fish are being harvested before they reach their peak spawning and growth potential. Allowing these fish to reach 40” prior to harvest will benefit the natural reproduction and size ratio of muskies on the water stated above.
?? Would you support a 40” size limit on muskellunge on the Wisconsin River between Kings Dam and Pride Dam in Northern Lincoln County? |
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Posts: 1270
| Don't a lot of quick strike rigs have a single hook on the front of the rig? As I read it those rigs would be illegal.
What constitutes "immediatly set upon the strike"? Will you need to keep the rod in your hand to set it immediatly or can you have it in a rod holder and take 5 or 10 seconds to pick up the rod and set the hook? If 5 or 10 seconds is OK what about 30 seconds or a minute?
Does this mean that if you are using a bait over 8" ice fishing you would need to have the tip-ups right next to you so that you could "immediatly set the hook upon strike"?
As I have asked many times before, does this mean that I need to rig a 9" night crawler on a quick strike rig? Traditional crawler harnesses use single hooks and as I read it would be illegal if this law passed. And a 9" crawler is not as big as you think, often times after being trolled for a bit a crawler can be 12"+.
AGAIN I WILL STATE THAT THERE IS WAY TO MUCH GRAY AREA IN THIS LAW. ENFORCEMENT WOULD BE A NIGHTMARE FOR THE WARDENS. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Reelman,
I agree with some of the points that you bring up. There is some gray area. Instead of just saying that this is going to be a useless law, my question to you is how would you write the law so there would be less gray area?
My intent is not to attack you reelman, but with all the complaining about how poor the WI fishery is and how the WI DNR sucks at managent and blah blah blah we need to offer ideas on better wording for things or other ideas. To gripe and complain about everything and not offer CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions will get absolutely nothing done and just burn bridges with the people in the DNR.
So do you re-write the law to say just live minnows/suckers that reach 9 inches? |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Let me try to make understanding this a bit easier...
The idea is to take out single hook sucker rigs.
If this passes I don't expect enforcement to be much of an issue unless you are using one. |
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