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| 47 lakes and river change to a 48" min length.. Let's now hope that every 48" fish does not get the club to the head... Now that it has changed to 48", I would be in favor of limiting to 1 fish per year.. Guess that still would not stop the "clubbing pontooner" from killing fish, as there are new people on that vessal every day!!! |
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| http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/rlp/regulations/fishing/fishing2007.pd...
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | I saw postings at a few MN landings last year, regarding meetings to attend educating on this change. They have it right. Let the managers manage and get it done! The fact that they handed some of the smaller rivers the same regulations, speaks even higher to their desire to provide/maintain great Musky fishing accross the board. Check out the pike regs on some of the even small lakes over there too. I'd love to see a slot similar to some I've seen there, on my home water, and some more of the trophy potential waters here in WI. Big pike rule!!
Edited by Reef Hawg 2/19/2007 10:28 AM
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| also note
100% mandatory release on upper Mississippi River section |
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Posts: 32944
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Good deal, many of us have supported a minimum of a 48" limit for a long time for the waters over there. This will slow the numbers of harvested fish quite a bit. I really liked seeing the C&R only on the upper Mississippi, that is some incredible but potentially fragile muskie water.
We've had a ton of negative comments here about the fellow on the pontoon on Mille Lacs; who's hiring this guy if he's encouraging harvest? If he indeed has new people every day who are harvesting muskies that seems to run contrary to the norm over there. Is there any possibility he might listen to reason and hook up with a good taxidermist providing replicas? If not, is this boat headquartered out of a resort? Maybe the resort owner would respond to some replica/CPR/conservation education. I'm not sure how much actual biological harm is done by this particular guide, but it would be nice to get the guy to at least discourage unnecessary harvest especially in light of the work that went into getting the limit increased to 48".
Congratulations to the MNDNR and everyone who worked on raising that limit. |
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Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | I want to thank EVERYONE that took the time to send an email, write a letter, make a phone call, etc. in voice of support for the higher size limits. It truly made a difference. There were a few waters that were proposed that didn't make the jump, simply because of not enough support...or actually, too much opposition is more likely.
As far as the pontoon troller. He has said that he doesn't encourage harvest, but he also doesn't discourage it. He makes no effort to educate on the importance of catch and release. His stance is that it's everyone's right to keep a legal fish. So if his client wants to keep it, he's all for it. As a guide, he needs to be an educator, which he clearly is not when it comes to the health of the fishery.
Aaron |
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Posts: 32944
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I also will not be able to physically restrain someone from harvesting a legal fish. I can't legally do that. I do let the angler know out of the chute that MY boat is CPR. I REALLY encourage the angler to let the fish go and as a result have not had a fish harvested in my boat since 1984, so in a way I AM forcing my CPR ethic on my guide clients. In the past, I've given up guide fees for the day to get an angler to buy a replica and let a good fish go.
Again, congratulations on the size limit increase!
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| Lots of people deserve a huge congrats on this one.Way to go! Steve |
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| Sworral,
If you stop in the liquor stor in Malmo, you will see why people continue to hire this guy.. He has some extremely impressive pictures.. People stop in for a case of beer, see the pics, and wonder how they can catch a fish like that... In the pontoon it is easy, sit on your bucket and wait for the next rod to go off.. Like AWH (aaron) ststaed, he definatly does not discourage people from keeping fish. Most of the people on his "vessal" are first time musky fisherman. He does go out of a resort, but I will not mention the name here, as I really have no idea if they support his ehtics or not..
There has been plently of complaints about this guy, but what are you going to do?? I just don't understand why one would kill the resource they are making money on??? |
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Posts: 32944
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | If the liquor store will display fish pictures, maybe they will also display a CPR piece from Muskies Inc and a brochure from a Replica taxidermist. Change is a process, not an event. Maybe this fellow has no concerns about the fishery at all, maybe he does, but if his clients begin insisting on releasing the fish caught on that boat, a change will have occurred. I'll stop in there at the resort and the store next time I'm in that area and see what the store owner has to say.Maybe a little promotion in exchange for promoting CPR might be offered...  |
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Posts: 2089
| Gene Miller, the pontoon troller in question, OWNS said liquor store.He's also the local postman.You can't go anywhere around the lake and mention muskies, without his name coming up.To the locals, he's a hero and the best Muskie Man around.How much info you want? Steve |
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| FYI, there is 2 pontoon boats operating out of Barnacle Bills Resort..... that is the service that advertised "Even your Grandma can catch a muskie!"..I've been guiding for 13 years with 100% CPR... And a few pretty decent ones too! The hardest one to release is your first big one ...the rest of them is easy!!!Don't break the toy... |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Steve,
What do you mean, "How much info do you want"?
So he owns the store; will he reject placing a MI poster in there if approached in a reasonable manner? Maybe something on CPR promoting his store can be offered, too. Add a benefit to him, maybe he reacts positively.
If not, then let's take a look into other options that might be eventually more effective than what's been done to date. If a group of 'concerned anglers' does enough footwork, even the non muskie angling locals might see the light eventually.
Politics can definitely suck, but in this case, are probably the fastest and most effective method of getting the CPR ethic in the foreground. |
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| I think what Jonesi means "How much info do you want" is that this is just the tip of the iceberg.. He has plently more unethical practices up his sleeve than just keeping fish.... I know he keeps fish, but I have also heard of many more rumors of other stuff...
BTW.. it is quit funny that any bar you stop at on Mille Lacs, if you start BS'ing with some of the locals, they do think he is the "musky superman.." |
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Location: searchin for 50 | I was just wondering is it WRONG to keep muskies? and if so, why is it wrong to keep them. I know all about replicas. Just was wondering the thought process on this. I have only kept 1 muskie and that was because it inhaled the bucktail and basically committed suicide. |
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Posts: 32944
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | That being said, what can be done to begin the process of reversing the harvest mentality on that boat and out of that resort? It's been done elsewhere, and major advances have been made in CPR and respect for higher size limits. This might be achieved in a positive manner, in fact that's the only way to approach this IMHO as the opposite approach has already been proven ineffective.
If the same people responsible for promoting the angler's portion of the new 48" limit in Minnesota began a campaign around Mill Lacs (perhaps in concert with Muskies Inc) to educate the local anglers and tourists alike, there WILL be a positive effect. Are the locals talking negatively about the new size limits?
What else might be done? |
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| Yeah, what Josh said.How does one approach "God"?Pick your battles ring a bell?Gene is not the only pontoon troller either as Wayne mentioned.For that matter, Garrison Sports runs launches with a dozen people dragging suckers on single hooks rigs(not heresay, saw with my own lookers) along the Wealthwood weed edge.So many issues and I'm getting too old to fight 'em all.I think I'll just fish. Steve
Edited by Steve Jonesi 2/19/2007 2:07 PM
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| This guy was actually camped next to us at the cassino campground durring the Mesikhomer vermillion tourney,,,Alot of his trips are 'work partys not seriouis musky guys' akin to the walleye launch crowd,,,also heard more then once the clients have had to drive the boat back. He 'claims' to have a partnership in a local 'repo' biz and that he tries to get people to get repos instead because that would mean more $ to him. at least thats what he says |
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| I hope to see 100% cnr someday soon, no matter what the size.
Release them all!! |
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| I think we could post on this guy all day, I personally don't think it will get you anywhere.. Mr. Worral, if you can convince him to change his ways, more power to you.. This is not a new concept to him though... As for Garisson Sports, that is another issue, Mille Lacs is the only lake in the world that has a walleye style lauch boat set up to catch muskies... I have NEVER seen a lauch boat throw back a keeper walleye, do you think this lauch boat will throw back any muskies?? I think the 48" reg. is GREAT, thank you MNDNR... Now lets push for 54". |
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| What about a Muskie Stamp, akin to a Pheasant Stamp?
If we made it $25 or something like that, with proceeds going back into stocking, that might discourage people on a pontoon or launch from taking the outing in the first place if it is a one-time deal.
Would be a great funding source, too.
Just a thought.
SteveV |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Interesting.
Is it 'bad' to keep a muskie? That's an excellent question. My answers to that question have been roundly and rudely criticized over the last year by a few far FAR off to the right, but that's the way it goes, I guess. I've worked consistently to encourage CPR since the early 80's while respecting everyone's opinions and ideals in the process. Why take that course of action? Because I have a basic understanding of what it takes to obtain change. As Steve Jonesi insinuates, it 'aint easy.
The MNDNR has spoken as to what the minimum size limit should be on 47 bodies of water. I bet part of that decision is based on the known fact many of us will release ANY muskie, up to maybe even a world record. I bet part of that decision is also based on an estimate of how many muskies will be harvested over that size, and what the actual effect on the Muskie population might be. There were dozens of 'activist'-to-average muskie anglers working towards this, and congratulations are due. What about the 49, 50, 52, 54, 55 or even 56" fish? That decision, by Minnesota law, is up to each and every one of you fishing there whether you are a MN resident or a visitor.
If this fellow leaves that decision up to the anglers on his pontoon, and you feel that's a bad thing and want to support and promote CPR to a larger size on Mille Lacs, or even total CPR on the water he guides, it's incumbent for YOU to do something about it. If you do nothing but sit behind a computer and throw obscene comments like some now think is the way to enlightenment, you have no stake in the game and have no right to complain if a 55 gets harvested on that boat. Educate the anglers at point of sale at the resorts and stores on Mille Lacs. Get to them in local media like Chamber publications, etc. If the target anglers are online, maybe one can do something there too. Muskies Inc can help, that's part of what they do. In some cases, a local fisheries biologist may assist you with information helpful to your position.
As far as the launch putting a dozen single hook sucker rigs in the water at a time, that's a HUGE issue. We've worked collectively as concerned anglers, DNR, muskie clubs, and industry folks in WI to eliminate that sure-kill scenario, and have taken no end of crap from the fringes who are great at yelling obscenities but not so great at actually putting some help on the line in the process. we pretty much have eliminated the practice except for a very few. Eventually, we will see it as nothing but history. I'd get after that practice soon, if you are serious about protecting Muskies on that water.
I said earlier that effecting change is a process, and I think I'm right there. Education is the key, avoiding unecessary conflict that will do nothing but alienate. That can be done one on one for limited effect, or in a big way, like Muskies Inc. Those folks are the historical/traditional experts at forwarding CPR, and in most cases 'get it' enough to be effective at that charge.
Bottom line, is if you want change, it will take effort to acquire it. You will have plenty of tacit support, but real roll-in-the-mud help is pretty thin out there.
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| jclymer - 2/19/2007 3:01 PM
I think we could post on this guy all day, I personally don't think it will get you anywhere.. Mr. Worral, if you can convince him to change his ways, more power to you.. This is not a new concept to him though... As for Garisson Sports, that is another issue, Mille Lacs is the only lake in the world that has a walleye style lauch boat set up to catch muskies... I have NEVER seen a lauch boat throw back a keeper walleye, do you think this lauch boat will throw back any muskies?? I think the 48" reg. is GREAT, thank you MNDNR... Now lets push for 54".
I'm pretty sure there are some launch style trolling boats on St Clair if I am not mistaken.
I think sworrall is trying to point out that alot of people are quick to complain about it but are not willing to do the hard work to solve the problem. Area guides who come on here and other places regularly promoting the virtues of Mille Lacs and their guide services admit that even they are not willing to do the work necessary to battle the problem.
Well ... if someone directly impacted by it such as the area guides won't take it head on then why would anyone else? In my mind, it must not be that big of a problem if the major Mille Lacs Muskie Stakeholders aren't willing to deal with it. |
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| What are we to do?
I would never hire these guys nor recommend them. My cabin is on the North End. Whenever the pontooners come up in conversation with locals, I "educate" as best I can. The fact is alot people (present company excluded) simply dont give a sh@t. I control only what happens in my boat. I commend all of you guides on your efforts be CPR only. Make sense to me as your livlihood depends on it! |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | One has to start somewhere. I think the point here is that there's an issue been brought up regarding the pontoon boat trolling guides and the harvest of numbers of muskies. I've seen plenty of negative reference, but no real attempts to begin a process to deal with this segment of the Mille Lacs Muskie world. If it's truly a big problem to the population of big fish in Mille Lacs, then I'd think a group might be put together to look at what might be done to lower the impact.
There's a pretty active movement to deal with the darkhouse issues, which might just pale in comparison to the damage done by a launch business pushing single hook sucker use.
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| Minnesota dnr is "dead" and I mean "dead' set against a musky stamp
they are convinced it would cost has much to administer it has it would take in with no gain at all to the program'
might actualy work in reverse and show politicians how 'few' muskie anglers there are.
also because most muskie anglers release their fish some might not buy the stamp because who needs it you can say your fishing pike this would also not reflect the true number of muskie anglers.
its also felt there could be more harvesting has some anglers might feel the right now to 'fill' their tag/stamp once a year.
There is a study this year conducted by the U of Minnesota on how mant musky anglers there are in Minn, maybe after that is done we might have something to push for a stamp.
but,,,No way dnr wants a stamp right now!!!!!!!!!! |
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| Narrows,
I work hard for the Muskies on Mille Lacs EVERY DAY!!!!Give me a freakin' break.Most people have no clue as to the mentality regarding muskies on Mille Lacs.Walleye anglers STILL outnumber muskie anglers 20-1.I will not get into personal attacks and I will continue to educate, WITH TACT, every opportunity I get, be it the boat landing, bar or motel.Pick your battles or you'll lose 'em all.Any suggestions?I'm sure these guys wouldn't mind the hit to their bottom line in order to save a few fish.Yeah right.The economy isn't quite flourishing up there either.It's tough and getting tougher.Nuff said. Steve |
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Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Worrall, I couldn't have said it better myself.
One thing I'm going to be pushing for now that quick strike rigs will be legal is to outlaw the use of a single hook rig on any minnow over x".
Here's a question from a non-livebait fisherman. What's the bottom size limit that most people use for suckers? I you're using 36" suckers I don't want to hear it. I want a baseline I can go to the DNR with so we could possibly set a regulation in 2008-9. If we can put it in the books that you have to use a quick strike on any minnow of over say 10" then we've just done an end-around on the whole issue. Fight the battles in the manor that's easiest to win is my opinion.
Edited by Muskie Treats 2/20/2007 9:27 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | There you go, that's what I meant. Now if folks who actively guide or just fish Mille Lacs and other Muskie waters up there step in to help, even if it's just a letter or email, maybe the single hook issue can be solved.
Steve, I agree with the 'pick your battles' scenario. There several to choose from. I'm not saying any one person has to spearhead (although someone does), I'm simply saying that action at ground zero trumps everything else, and provides validity to arguments elsewhere.
Treats, let me know if we can help with an article or press release. |
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Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Actually, what would be beneficial is the report the WDNR did on hooking mortality w/ single hook sucker rigs. I know that it was published in a Muskie Hunter, but I'd like to be able to present the official study. If anyone has a copy or knows where it is let me know.
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