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| I have a cabin on Mille Lacs and see many huge fish. Many 50 inch plus caught. Some kept. I often wonder what the potential is of the fish caught and kept.
Are we searching for a world record that has never been caught or we hoping that someone let 'er go in that 45- 55 lb range. Like Jodi Dahms (SP) fish.
I often dream of that 60 inch open water warrior that could test the scales. I just want to know if she has battle wounds and hook marks or is she smarter than us and eludes the masses throwing plugs up here?
What are your thoughts? |
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| I think those monster fish exist, because I have seen some over the years. 4 in particular spanning over 30 years, the most recent last September in the US and another last October in Canada. I know others that have seen monster fish like me, and that is what keeps them going back to those areas for the rest of their lives.
I question whether one of these true super tankers will ever actually be hooked though because the real monsters are typically places we never fish. I think they stay deep around pods of baitfish in most big water systems most of the year, and you might see them shallow spawning in Spring or just might happen to catch them in transition in late Fall trolling, deep cranking, jigging, or soaking a sucker.  |
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me and the D were just talking about this tonite..i completely agree.....deep, never showing up, and honestly, probably never seen a bait. |
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Posts: 32930
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | What are they doing out there, hiding? Smart fishes...  |
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Location: 31 | Steve C., I'm having trouble understanding how you think record fish are out there hiding or whatever and yet you've seen 4 record class fish? I'm assuming they followed your bait? That makes no sense to me because it's either one or the other, not both, right?
For the record I have never seen a muskie remotely approaching 60lb, let alone 70lb in 30 years... the last 10 or so exclusively fishing some of the best water in the world. |
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Location: The Yahara Chain | If you truly want a world record, you should be fishing on the St Lawerence. Out of all of the Canadian waters it has the greatest chance according to Dr. Casselman's work. I would love to see Casselman do some analyzing on Mille Lacs. If people are keeping fish out of there they should get the clethirum (sp?) bone to him. He doesn't need a very big sample, I believe he told me six large specimen's, to develop a potential size limit for a given body of water. It would be very interesting to see what Mille Lacs upper size potential is, it could be greater than even the trophy Canadian waters. It is truly amazing how many huge fish are coming out of Mille Lacs.
I don't hear as much talk about Tauchen's huge fish as I do about the fish Jonesi's client caught, but Lee caught a 55.5 x 27 this fall. It was also a barred fish as well. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Can someone contact Lee for a picture? Sounds like a new front cover to me. |
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Location: Minnesota | I realize deer are a different subject but, size increase is the same if you "let them go". I have seen studies with whitetails that if you do not harvest 2-3 yr old bucks your entire strain of large antler producing bucks wil get much much larger. It comes down to harvesting deer to optimize for potential food also which does not matter IMO with muskies but similar effects would be seen. Many deer in Iowa have been watched for years and look a the records being broke over the last 10 years due to smart hunting. Again, I know this is potatoes vs apples but I think the muskie community would see similar results. Not to mention, BIG fish give birth to fish that WILL get big themselves. Seen some good studies looking at the growth rate and average size of pike in lakes too. I will see if I can dig that up and post the pdf.
James
PS-My goal someday is to own a 20-50 acre lake and product some wolrd record bass and crappie. Maybe if that day comes I will throw in a muskie and feed her some trout
Edited by Grunt Lures 12/2/2006 10:00 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | As with deer, what Muskies have to eat, water quality/environment quality, and much more effects growth and ultimate size potential. Mortality rates are considerable with NO fishing, up to 30% of any year class every single year.
Whitetails are, of course, a different subject, but there are certain factors that connect. Here in Rhinelander, we have absolutely no mast crops or farm crops near my land. In the area I hunt, the deer are browsers. Minerals in the soil are not good, so without supplementing, our deer at 6.5 years score OK, but no where near what they could in central Illinois. I've shot some big boys here, P&Y, sure, but B&C are rare. We began a mineral supplement program a long time ago, which has helped. Muskies are limited by similar factors;forage and water quality and chemistry, etc.
Pond grown fish might get big, and might not. One can take the same fish and grow her large in one pond, while siblings do not get as large in others. That's a study in itself!
My two cents:
Want a record fish? Look to the waters that have everything the Muskie needs plus a lower angler mortality rate. Large waters tend to offer both for obvious reasons. Mille Lacs' largest enemy in producing a world record might just be us. Then again.... |
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Location: 31 | Troy, I agree... the St. Lawrence is the number one place and head east there a couple times of year in search of something like Tom & Co. just caught. The problem for me is the distance and amount of time it takes to learn that water on your own, how I would love to live a little closer. What's your thinking on what Lee's muskies girth would have been if killed?
I also think there's a lot to be said for what might happen in Green Bay if the fishery is allowed to develop... same with Mille lacs and other areas and agree what Steve hints at with us being our own worst enemy for giants. It's a very exciting time for muskies in the United States proper now.
Oh, you guys might find it interesting I also fish a system that has very high mortality due mainly to spearing with precious little muskie angling pressure and of course a known history of producing 50lb muskies. My thinking is that, firstly they are there because you cannot catch them where they are not. Secondly, the density population keeps the angling pressure low which is a big plus. Third, it also allows the few remaining fish to feed with no competition for the abundance of high-protein food available.
Early on I just slammed big fish and looked like a genius... lately... a donkey could've done as a good and I sometimes catch myself questioning why keep going back there because it's a lengthy drive from my house to catch nothing. I know the answer why and have even seen results, it's just brutal to fish at times... but once in awhile... Bam! |
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Posts: 561
Location: Monee, Illinois | The world record will be caught on a Zebco 202 snoopy poll baited with a wax worm....
Classic |
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| Jerry, in response to your question I have seen 4 60 inch class muskies in my lifetime, two shallow showing no interest early season and the other two follows casting late season. I don't estimate weight until I see the girth of the fish or actually girth it. Some monster upper 50 inch fish with upper 20 inch girths have been caught and either released or kept this year. I have been told about sighted muskies in Canada that were easily over 60 inches long. These sightings are rare, and these fish likely will never be caught.
Super size muskies are out there, but we won't know if a 70 pound musky really exists until one is caught and verified. Do I believe it can happen? Most certainly yes. Do I think it will happen? Most likely no. I just lost a fish that left a 9 inch jaw mark on sucker two weeks ago in Vilas County. Right now I am here in Canada during the December full moon period. Your best chance at a big heavy fish are big heavy fish waters. It's all about genetics, forage, and habitat!
I believe in Big Bertha, just don't know if she will ever be caught.
Steve
Edited by muskyboy 12/2/2006 3:00 PM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | fish a lot and some great water ... last year i saw a 50 pounder for the first time with Cal and Bette on Eagle and it was shocking for me ... catching would have been great, but standing on the deck after she disappeared was enough of an experience to never forget it. this after seeing probably 16 4' plus fish that day and Bette catching 2. the 50 lb. i think is THE rarity and then it's a matter of timing to push the scales to the mid 50's ... maybe there's a freak out there but it's sure fun to live them through the stories of the guys fortunate enough to catch them this year. |
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Location: Appleton,WI | I have seen 2 mid 50 pound fish in the last 2 years.You need to fish big water.oh..and put in a lot of time.They are out there and you will see a 55-65 pounder in the next year or two.Just my thoughts. |
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| I think a 60 pounder from minnesota is right around the corner. Could happen at any time from canadian waters. I've seen 1 fish that had a real shot at 60 inches , At least 56 inches, could have been bigger , it was just way way larger and longer than anything I've seen before in over 15 years of fishing in Canada. I've seen quite a few big fish in this time , this fish was in that special category , not related to 48-50 inchers. But you need big girth for that 60 pounder. I think it will happen soon , but getting actual weights on these superfish is tough , most guys are releasing them. MD |
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Location: 31 | This is an interesting thread, but in my mind until a 70lb is caught, kept and verified it flat doesn't exist because one has never been captured by any method - ever... and precious few 60lb. As an angler this is sometimes hard for me to accept because the 70lb number is so ingrained in our culture, it's what I've dreamed of catching from day 1. My heart is in the right place, and I would love to see one caught... but by my brain tells me to believe otherwise. Oh, and so much for the naysayers who claim they would not keep a record because of the grief involved, the reception of Tom's fish certainly paints a different picture.
This lean statistic also holds true for the 60" or 30" benchmark, precious few of those anomalies have been truly verified. I do not want this thread to regress to arguing about records, so I will mention something more recent. We've all seen a shift from exaggerating the length to exaggerating the girth lately, one particular fish that was claimed to have a 30" girth comes to mind for me. It's splashed all over and being used to promote a business... and there is no way the thing was even close. Our willingness to allow (and even help promote) exaggerations like this really bothers me... why, heck I don't know? I guess I just flat hate the bull because it takes away from truly magnificent creatures like Tom Gelb's.
I'm apprehensive to share my own catch details because that's not my thing, it is however pertinent to the conversation and perhaps allows anyone interested a better peek of my mindset.
The longest fish in my boat is 56", with every 1" increment of measure captured beneath it with a nice stack of 50-51" and several 52's. The 56 was the longest fish I think I've ever personally seen alive, not by a long shot obviously but close enough. A couple of years ago I had a fish on that got off that I guessed mid-50" with an impressive girth (after I calmed down) and it just dwarfed a 49 1/2" we released about an hour before. As a matter of fact it actually looked twice as big as the 49 in the water... made it look puny... but I knew better. So for me it's certainly easy to understand how someone would mistake a mid-50 for a 60, or even a low 50 for an upper 50. I think MD's response is very sincere and honestly falls under this category, I could almost feel the excitement in the boat with you there too:)
The largest girth in my boat is 25 1/4", and I'm confident I've seen a fish or two with a larger girth than the 25", but not by much... that is certainly a tough bell for me to ring because it's difficult to get a perspective on the girth in the water. However, about 10 years ago in bright sun this one particular fish followed up... saw the boat... turned sideways... took a poop and boogied. This tub was barely 50" and was not even in the same league as the one mentioned above, which I'm confident was in the 45 to 50lb class, but certainly no heavier than Tom Gelb's fish
I found it so refreshing that Tom said: "I knew it was a 35- or 40-pounder, but when I finally got it netted and saw its side, I knew I had something special," because this has been my experience as well. Until you get a hold of it and have the experience to properly identify the size based on other fish you've handled... it's a real tough thing. I think you could double that with the excitement of a big fish follow or one getting off. Who knows... maybe I'm all wet with my guesses on those fish above?
So Steve, I hope you better understand my frame of reference for questioning you listing "4 in particular spanning over 30 years" under this world record class topic. FYI, I'm still scratching my head here to Steve because if you're seeing these fish with regularity, they can certainly be caught. I don't understand why you would say you feel they can't be hooked? I'm rambling here- hope you guys enjoyed the fish stories.
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Location: Appleton,WI | Jerry I agree with you 100% You dont know what you have till its in the net.I thought my 51.5 was 48-49".but the next day I did see a fish I believe was a super tanker 56-58" easy.I thought my dads 53.5" was maybe 50.My dad wasent gonna get the net for my fish he said it was only maybe 40" well that measured 47.There seams to be a perspective change in the water.(Bigger in the water).70 pounder is a fish that might not be out there.I have more confidence in seeing a low 60 pound fish.But that could change with the new waters being stocked.Could also come from a very low density lake not know for ski's but have a few roaming.This 70 pound fish brings out alot of good thoughts and ideas.Pretty interesting to read. |
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| I agree with Jerry that the girth thing is getting out of hand...in the last year or 2 the exaggerated girths being thrown around out there are simply laughable.... as for 60" fish swimming around....well I have to go back to the "superfish" thread...when a guy like Marc Thorpe chimes in and says he's never seen a true 60"er I have to seriously doubt those who claim to have seen more than a few ...If they are out there, they would be caught..they have to eat..they are not some sort of super musky with the intelligence of an elephant..it's a musky...things do look bigger in the water...I have not personally seen anything over maybe 54". I can just imagine what a 56 incher with a big girth would look like...I'd probably not even wager to guess how big...It would take an angler like Marc who has probably as many 54+ in his boat as anyone to say they saw a 60"er for me to believe it...sorry for being doubtful of you Muskyboy...but that is my opinion, a little buck fever perhaps?...IF they were out there they would be caught...now I'm not saying there aren't a few super freaks swimming around but not in the numbers some would lead us to believe...my 2 cents...go back to that Superfish thread for some interesting reading by guys who are true authorities on big fish....
I do think a near 60 lber will be caught in the near future...It won't be 60 inches though... |
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Posts: 155
| There were alot of fish posted this week Tom Gelb,s fish was truely awsome.But someone posted a 58x29 on muskystriker.com from the St.Lawrence.Both very nice.But are there bigger? |
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Location: Muskegon Michigan | I believe the longest on record was a 66 incher from Lac suel. It was under 50 lbs. Ken obriens 65 was verified. The supertankers are there and they are catchable and someone will eventully put her in the boat. I know of one man who has done it twice but has released her both times. You all know his name so I wont say it on a public forum. The Larry, Georgian Bay, The Ottawa and now I believe Green bay or Lake Michigan could put a 70 lber on the wall. Here is a picture of a great lakes spotted fish caught by my wife in 2004. It was 47 inches long and weighed between 25 and 28 lbs. It had been dog boned by a freakin monster that ripped its flesh back on both sides of the body. The side facing my wife was torn all the way to the belly from huge teeth. The range of width of the bite was between 9 to 11 inches . This was a upper 20 pounder that was thrashed and severely damaged by another huge Musky. They exist and its just a matter of time before one blows the Spray fish off the map. Kingfisher
(47 inch spotted bitten.jpg)
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Location: Muskegon Michigan | Also the Lake Nippissing fish was true hog. oh yes shes out there Kingfisher |
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Location: Madtown, WI | Here is the pic of the 58X29 from the larry.....2 inches shy of 60 inches....kinda puts it into perspective doesn't it.
Cory
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Location: Oregon | Holy smokes, that's cool!!
RM |
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| I think that was kept as well right? someone said 57 lbs? wow. that is HUGE ...could you imagine that thing following in your bucktail...i'd die...
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| It weighed 49 pounds
Match it against the length and girth see if it matches up |
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| Jerry, think positive. She is out there. We will catch her. She will blow Spray's lie of a record away. She will blow all our minds away when she shows herself to the world--be a believer man! |
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| Thanx C.Painter fer the photo.Now that I look at the pic it looks like a row troller too...Hmmmm... |
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| Guest,
Where did you come up with 49lbs? I only ask because that fish was kept.
Dave |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Watch this video. It will help you see what the possibilities really are!
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/play_wmv.asp?clip=479
I have seen a 60# fish. Had it hit me right after I caught my Personal Best, so I had a good basis of comparison; Keith saw it too, actually. I don't think I have ever seen one larger. |
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| It was kept and weighed and it came in at 49 pounds after freezing
I know all the speak about weight loss,but little documention exists about weight loss,so figuring it was frozen that night,it may have not lost all that much weight
Here's a little excersise for all
Weigh a glass of water,freeze it and weigh it agin,tell me the difference in weight loss?
Considering most living matter is composed of 97% fluids
For de-hydration to have an impact,flesh needs to dry(de-humify),freezing does de-hydrate flesh enough
Maybe someone can point me in another direction with my thinking?
Nonetheless some great big fish caught in recent years all over
BN,I think 60 incher's exist but I know of only a few credible people I believe released such fish,and they did not weigh as much as some pertain to see
Only 2 muskies ever caught that were 60 pounds(none were 60 inches),all these guys see em,maybe but I see muskies as a cold blooded species which vary in weight according to years,seasons,ability to feed peacefully and be non pressured and certain fledging fisheries which fsh are eating actively till the pressures overwhelmes the population and they become lure and boat shy and cease adequate feeding
The true Queen in my perspective lies between 56 58 inches but all the elements must be right and colide and that means someone being at the right place and right time
When I see a fish and we miss it,normaly within 5 days I catch it
Are their fish that do not eat lures or shy from the boat because of bad experiences,I suspect so,mainly cause I graph em,but who knows if they have not been previously captured?
Hope is all you have
As the the old saying goes
Put hope in one hand and shiite in the other and see which fills first
Like I said in the super fish thread,they all look big in the water,till you tape em |
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