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| Jump to page : 1 2 Now viewing page 1 [30 messages per page] More Muskie Fishing -> Muskie Biology -> Yahara Chain observations (Bone Lake brood) |
Bytor |
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Location: The Yahara Chain | There was some talk last year as to why are there 50" plus fish caught in the Milwaukee area and not in the Madison area. The implication being that there is something wrong with our fish since they have come primarily out of the Spooner hatchery. Well after doing a little bit of research last night and this morning it became pretty obvious to me as to why we aren't catching 50's in Madison. First off when you are talking to me about our lakes here in Madison please refer to them properly, which is the Yahara Chain of lakes. There is no Madison river, there is no Madison chain. I get a little anal about doing things properly and the proper name for the chain of lakes that resides in Madison Wisconsin is the Yahara Chain. Here is the stocking history of true muskies in lakes Monona and Waubesa: Monona did not have a substantial stocking until 1988 when 1417 fingerlings were put in. It did receive a few true strains in '86 (27) and '87 (543). Then tigers were stocked again in '89 and '90. Starting with the 1991 stocking of 2625 fingerlings, true strain muskies have been stocked into Monona. Waubesa did not receive any true strain muskies until 1992 when 1500 fish were put into the lake. Our local fisheries manager believes that the majority of the bigger fish in our lakes are a result of these stockings from 1991 and 1992. The few 50" fish that do get scene by anglers once in awhile are probably from the fish that were put in during the late 80's. Conversely the Waukesha county lakes have been receiving true strain muskies for a lot longer period. Pewaukee has been getting them since 1972 and Okachee since 1982. We obviously don't have a forage issue as the people that fish here know how fat our fish are. When I look at the stocking info and then factor in that the huge Wisconsin fish that are caught on Mille Lacs were all stocked from 1984-1987. I come to the conclusion that we aren't catching 50's here in Madison yet because our fish are still young and they haven't reached there maximum size yet. The data from the C & R info from our club shows that the average size caught goes up every year and IMO it will continue to increase for about 8 more years. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the fish that reside in our lakes. I am fully confident that Dr. Sloss' work will show that the genetics of the Wisconsin fish have not been compromised. sworrall - 11/27/2006 3:17 PM What's your overall average from the Madison Chain this year? Looks to be pretty good, I'd guess! Steve asked this to a couple of different fisherman on the general board. My average on the Yahara Chain was 41.5" this year, my best average to date. My average is helped out by the fact that I don't fish Wingra which has some separate non genetic issues IMO, overpopulation and forage issues that have lead to stunting of that fishery. Here is an example of our very healthy,Bone Lake brood, fish here in Madison. Edited by Bytor 11/30/2006 11:46 AM Attachments ----------------  wauby46 5 web.JPG (15KB - 189 downloads) | ||
| Lockjaw |
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Posts: 147 Location: WI - Land of small muskies and big jawbones | |||
| esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8775 | So the fish are smaller because people improperly refer to the Yahara river system and surrounding lakes as the Madison Chain?  Troy, what you are saying has a lot of merit in my opinion. There are a few other factors that I think are worth mentioning: 1. The recent trend in larger fish corresponds with the recently imposed 45" size limit. It's been what, 3 years? And now all of a sudden everyone's average is going up. HMMMMMMM... Genetics aside, what are the odds of a fish reaching it's true growth potential in an ecosystem where many smaller fish are harvested due to low size limits? 2. I believe you have to look at WHO fishes those waters as well. You fish there, as do may others from here. There are a LOT of "recreational" anglers. What I mean by "recreational" is that you're going to get a LOT of muskies caught by people who either A. don't have a lot of experience with them, or B. aren't musky fishing I'm certain that happens on Pewaukee, but I believe its to a lesser extent. Inexperience + light tackle + catching the fish of a lifetime (a 35 incher) = a pretty high mortality rate. Don't get me wrong -- the stocking reports reveal a LOT about what is going on on the Madi- err. YAHARA chain I just feel there is more at work than the history of stocking alone. 3. I also believe (and this is purely speculation) there are water quality issues present on the Yahara Chain that we're not seeing in the Milwaukee area lakes. The watershed in Madison is in some trouble as we all know. Pewaukee, Okauchee, and Oconomowoc are a little more isolated from urban runoff, where as the Yahara Chain basically gets ALL of the runoff from the entire city of Madison. Factor in the amount of development on the lakes, and the runoff from that, and the coal fire power plant (can you say mercury contamination???), and I can see where there might be growth issues with the fish in the system. When the local news agencies are urging people not to let their dogs swim in the lakes because of toxic blue green algae, one has to wonder aout the effect this has on the fish. I'm not trying to make the Yahara chain out to be a sewer or anything, but I sure wouldn't eat the fish either. I fully believe the Yahara chain is going to continue to improve, and here is why: 1. We're addressing the water quality issues. They're retooling the power plant, aren't they? And they've outlawed the use of phosphorous based fertilizers. Cleaner runoff = less fertile water = less algae. 2. We've addressed overharvest my enacting a 45" size limit. 3. C&R education is allowing for more fish to be released healthy that otherwise would have died. 4. Stocking of different strains of fish and the corresponding growth studies will eventually tell us what fish we need to be stocking (if it matters) The forage is there. The acreage is there. If they can grow 50's down on the Fox Chain they can grow them ANYWHERE. Remove pollution, overharvest, and delayed mortality, and ther is absolutely no reason the Mad (I mean YAHARA) Chain can't support a population of 50 + inch fish.  Edited by esoxaddict 11/30/2006 2:43 PM | ||
| RB |
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| sworrall |
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Posts: 32885 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | |||
| BNelson |
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Location: Contrarian Island | Troy I still like to call it the Madison Chain!! cuz it's in madison and they are connected....now I know that gets you riled up I just might have to call it that more often ! Anyway...the chain is coming along nicely...I think the timing of the 45" size limit was perfect! We are seeing some nice fish show up...As Cory said to some of us today...it used to be a 40"er raised eyebrows around here...now you don't get a second look or a question about where or what bait til you get up in the 43-44 and above range... Will it ever be a 50" producing factory..no...I don't think so but will there be alot of 40-48" fish in here..yes, that I do...this weekend was sure an eye opener of all all the fish we contacted and most were pretty darn big...they have the forage and the room to roam... I am very optimistic for the next few years out there....what is my avg size this year? not sure really, I would say it is right around 39-40 though...hard to keep it up as there are alot of smaller fish to be caught which IS a good thing as we need those small fish in years to come.... The local muskies inc club and the DNR have done a great job with the chain and it will be interesting to see how the Leechers do.... is it May yet? | ||
| firstsixfeet |
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| esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8775 | |||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32885 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | |||
| Bytor |
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Location: The Yahara Chain | |||
| Pointerpride102 |
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Posts: 16632 Location: The desert | |||
| bn |
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| sworrall |
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Posts: 32885 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | |||
| esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8775 | On the WHAT chain, Brad? I predict there will be a few in the coming years, but I don't see it ever becoming a hog factory. Considering the limitations of the ecosystem and the amount of human influence in that area, I see a limited potential for growth. | ||
| Bytor |
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Location: The Yahara Chain | bn - 12/4/2006 9:52 AM big fish on the madison chain are fairly conditioned and they sure are hard to fool... I agree, except I would substitute VERY for fairly. These YAHARA CHAIN fish see a lot of lures. Edited by Bytor 12/4/2006 12:00 PM | ||
| bn |
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| Pointerpride102 |
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Posts: 16632 Location: The desert | |||
| bn |
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| Pointerpride102 |
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Posts: 16632 Location: The desert | |||
| lambeau |
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| esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8775 | |||
| bn |
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| bn |
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| esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8775 | Brad I still disagree. I believe that the health, longevity, mortality rate, and ultimate size of the Yahara Chain fish would be improved if the lakes weren't quite so... toxic? I also think that there's a fair amont of harvest and a fair amount of delayed mortality on the chain, which again is a result of location. Lots of fish caught in warm water by guys who may have never caught one before. Maybe stating that it was a "limitation" of the ecosystem wasn't the best way to put it. As Lambeau stated above -- it's the human influence that's causing the problems. All the goose poop certainly doesn't help, either. I read somewhere that a single goose puts as much phospohrous into the lake in one day as an entire chemlawn application... I have no doubt that if you removed all the factors I just mentioned, there would be many 50" (and over) fish to be had on the chain. That siad, I would be very suprised of someone doesn't catch a 50" next year. With the number of fish being caught in the 47 -49" range lately? 50 will fall. I'll call you when I catch her! | ||
| lambeau |
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| esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8775 | |||
| bn |
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| no stocking history isn't enough to make a prediction but being on the water and seeing what is out there is....there were tons of 44+ fish caught in 06..more than I bet any other year yet...with the size limit we have, more and more big fish will be there to catch...with the advances of the anglers learning more and more how to best handle the fish delayed mortality I feel is inconsequential to the # of big fish...sure there are some joe shmoes who don't know how to handle fish and there are those that ignore the 80 + degree water temps but that happens everywhere... The water quality of the madison lakes is actually not all that bad..sure they get green and lots of algae but to call the water quality poor is a stretch... 50 in 07 is my new motto! you aren't gettin her EA...cuz I am... | |||
| esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8775 | You can't, Brad. Because I'm going to catch her first, and when I catch do? *BONK* To the wall she goes! relax everyone, I'll put her back. somewhere | ||
| lambeau |
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| esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8775 | |||
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