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| I've been talking with some of by buddies in MI and we've been noticing a disturbing trend. Over 1/2 of the speakers that come to our meetings have been absolutely terrible. Many come in without even a basic outline of what they want to talk about. Some have even come in and just asked if we have any questions without presenting anything as if they invented the muskie. This really disturbs me because 1. it takes its toll on attendence and 2. it almost feels like these people are stealing from the chapter. All chapters spend too much time fundraising only to get shortchanged when it comes to speakers.
If anyone here does decide to take a speaking gig at an MI chapter (or anywhere else) here are some suggestions:
1. Have an outline of what you want to talk about. Even if you don't follow it, at least it's gotten you thinking. Also, I said outline and not prepared speech. Don't just read straight from your notes, look at your audience and make eye contact.
2. Visual aids are always good. It doesn't necessarily have to be a powerpoint presentation (although for $200-$400 it's not a bad idea) but at least have something to share. Lure tuning tips, modifications, and maps are always good. You don't have to mark your honey holes, but if you're coming in to speak about a lake at least be prepared to give something away. After all, that's what you're getting payed for.
3. We all know that you should use long rods, no stretch line, and do a figure 8. We're paying you for your expertise not to state the obvious.
4. To words: Toast Masters. If you don't know what it is, find out before you take a chapters money.
5. If you wouldn't want to sit through your presentation, neither will the rest of us.
I'm posting as an anon because I don't want to call out specific people who have spoken at our chapter as some do come here. Feel free to add any other points that speakers should consider when putting together a presentation.
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | since you mentioned speakers I will add something to this. I wish the sport shows would bring in some new blood. Tired of seeing the same 7 or 8 speakers at every one. Maybe thats why I don't go anymore.
Pfeiff |
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| Personally I wanna hear fishermen,,,Al Lindner packs em in and he still talks in a heavy Chi accent not the profesional 'midwest' dialect.
Visual presentations in SMALL AMOUNTS,,,overhead projectors,slides etc put people to sleep 'literall" I rememeber at the Chi show couple years back a certain speaker who shall remain nameless had a powerpoint presentation and my buddy Eric counted 8 guys nodded off,,
I guess bottom line Id rather have truth then technique,,give me the hard pinpoint acurate info and I'LL stand in an alley to hear it |
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Posts: 20269
Location: oswego, il | I am the speaker director for FRV and line up the speakers. So far all our speakers have had good presentations and done very well. I usually ask what their presentation is before hand so I have an idea of what to expect well before I ever ask them to speak. I find the muskie shows to be a good tool for that. With that said though, our attendace seems to be dropping compared to our meetings in the past. My goal is to mix new new speakers in with more familiar ones. Big name recognition may be a part of attendace but who knows, they all did great jobs. |
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Posts: 561
Location: Monee, Illinois | Very well put, I do quite a bit a speaking on golf and have found that some of my PGA Professionals tend to stay on one topic. A great tool is a month or two before hand send out a little information card asking the membership what problems they are having or what they would like to hear about. I know you cant touch on everything but this will give you an idea of what they are interested in and help you get started on what you are going to talk about. Some presentors get hung up on point and sound like a broken record.
pga |
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| Hopefully any speakers who see it will not view it as malicious. Toast Masters is a terrific suggestion for those that have not been exposed to good training about how to prepare and deliver a high impact presentation. The original poster portrays the impact of poorly prepared and delivered presentations as a negative only for the attendees/chapter, but it also has a long term impact on the brand the speaker is trying to build for themselves. I hope many see this and consider joining their local Toast Masters club. In fact anyone in any profession that requires them to speak to a group should consider joining since it is certain to help them in their career. There's really no excuse since its cheap and there are literally chapters in every town.
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | i'll vouch for Toastmasters International from experience and also recommend the Dale Carnegie Courses. they WILL seem cheesey from the onset, but that is exactly the point. the training for public speaking is a systematic process that puts you in the comfort zone, logical and in control of you material by forcing you to be out of your element ... i do a ton of public speaking and the organization of thoughts, presentation of information and the summarizing of the material is a process that is easily learned ... probably not at the top of the list for most musky guides but definitely one that would separate one from the others.
another great starting point is The Seven Habits of Highly Successful People. Steven Covey went Oprah on us, but this piece of work that he did has a lasting quality and is a must read/study for anyone venturing into their own business.
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Posts: 2037
Location: lansing, il | sing of the times, i could be wrong but ive been watching this industry grow since i was a kid..what i notice as a person from the outside looking in is that much like guide services which have become watered down to the point of if you own a boat and catch a few fish someone thinks they are a guide...its the same with people giving presentations..i think its up to the person hiring someone to do the presentation to make sure they are going to get what they pay for...ask questions.....how long is your presentation? do you use video? do you do q & a, tell the speaker what you would like to have them do, after all its your money...yada yada yada....ask for referals...its the new era of CYA!!! |
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| great post.
identifies an issue and offers good suggestions for a solution.
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| I agree some speakers don't have a clue and the Sport Shows are so Old and stale I don't even go anymore,
What I would like to see at My Musky Inc meeting is a workshop or two have someone come in and teach us how to tie Leaders then everybody attending gets to tie and take home some new leaders, Teach Reel Maintenance everybody brings in a reel and learns how to PROPERLY maintain thier reel, These are the types of things I would like to see
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| I agree some speakers don't have a clue and the Sport Shows are so Old and stale I don't even go anymore,
What I would like to see at My Musky Inc meeting is a workshop or two have someone come in and teach us how to tie Leaders then everybody attending gets to tie and take home some new leaders, Teach Reel Maintenance everybody brings in a reel and learns how to PROPERLY maintain thier reel, These are the types of things I would like to see
complaining is useless unless you do something about it!
CCMI (Madison chapter) runs a "Muskie School" every spring...classes on everything from trolling, to fishing certain lakes, to (omg!) leader tying and reel maintenance. it's very well attended and enjoyed.
one of things that i've liked best about it is that the instructors have always been very well prepared, much as the original post asked for.
if you want instructional classes, take the lead, talk to your club leadership and start something up.
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | I've never spoken to MI, but have done so with many different kinds of outdoors groups. The problem with "How to" seminars that try to encompass product education is that there's too many products on the market, you're seminar would have to be 10 hours to try to help everybody the best you can. I made the mistake of having a seminar that taught people basic GPS skills. I advertised it as "Bring Yours In and You'll Go Home a Pro".........ha, mistake. I had 30 people show up for an hour seminar. There was probably 10 different kinds of units by 3-4 manufactuers. You do the numbers....30 people with an hour to show them how stuff works. I was there almost 4.
Seminar topics shouldn't try to cover too much, keep it focused on 1-2 aspects, speak about that topic(s), show a good Power Point presentation, answer questions and you won't look out to an audience that's head-bobbing, scratching their heads in wonder and yawning. Flying by the seat of your pants may work for guys like Gillespie, Maina, Bucher or Heiting (not that they do), but I'd get cans and bottles thrown at me for pulling that. |
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Posts: 32950
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I do quite a bit of public speaking. Believe me, for the average guy, it isn't easy. I'll list my comments as bullet points:
GENERAL Expectations----
* You will find a wide range of talent out there. A great muskie angler will not necessarily equate to a great presentation.
*Each Chapter has a person responsible for finding speakers. Look for the speakers other MI clubs have given good reviews. The best resource is the club reports in MI magazine.
* ALL public speakers have to start somewhere. The pay isn't always stunning, and many times you will get what you pay for.
*I bet my first seminar back in about 1979 was pretty rough. I'm glad no one booed.
*Don't expect revelations. It's been said already at your club, many times. Not much really new out there.
SPEAKERS----
* Prepare for your presentation as if you were preparing for a guide day or day on the water. Know what you are going to do and say. If you are using a piece of electronic gear for visual aid, know how to use it.
* Remember, there's little new out there. Find a new way to say what's been said.
*Address the club as if you are addressing your friends. You are. If you are nervous, say so, it helps relieve the moment.
*DON'T make your presentation a book club reading. When folks read, most times the tone and cadence is pure monotony.
* Give them the same information you expect in an article. Who, What, Where, When, How, and Why. Cover all that well and you have it nailed.
* Quality public speakers are really entertainers. If it feels boring to you it probably is to everyone, spice it up with stories that are relevant and maybe even funny. Laugh, if it is, everyone else will too. PLEASE don't show pictures of every fish caught, no one really cares unless the fish is really special.
* LOOK at everyone in the audience, ALL the time. Make them feel like you are talking to them personally.
* DO NOT TELL OFF COLOR JOKES. That's for Robin Williams, he's good enough to get away with it.
*If your presentation is basically a video, let the club know that in advance.
If you have something to show the group, like a lure, that is small enough that it's hard to see from the back, pass it around.
* MOVE some. If you stand there like a board, that's what you will look like.
Training is great, but most anglers don't have the inclination to take a public speaking course. Read up, there's lots of good reading that can help you improve.
PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS----
If I think I'm a Guide, and hang out the Shingle, I am a guide. I'll either be good and make it, or I'll be not so good and NOT make it. That's business. Poor public speakers with truly cool stuff to say are more interesting to me than great speakers with the same old same old. The highlight of my speaking 'career' to date was as MC for the last MI International Awards Banquet in Milwaukee, back in 1986 I think. Patty Slack bit me, hard. On-stage.
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Posts: 8848
| It all depends on what you expect from the speaker
I've been to a few dozen seminars, seen just about anybody you can name in the last several years.
I've made it a habit to take notes at all of them. Sometimes I write so much I can hardly keep up. Other times I have put my notebook away halfway through the seminar. Some are greatly entertaining, good for a laugh, and just plain fun.
It all comes down to why the speaker has chosen to do the seminar in my opinion. Some do it to promote their guide business, and show a lot of pictures of big fish. Some are there just to make a buck and show the exact same presentation everywhere they go. Some are there to promote their fisheries. Some are there because they truly enjoy talking about muskies, and still others are there because they have a real desire to teach people.
It doesn't matter how good of a speaker someone is if they are only there to promote their guide business. On the other side of the coin, someone with real knowledge to share can be a miserable speaker and still get their point across very well -- "I've had a lot of success fishing these areas at this time of the year with these baits in these colors"... Even a Q&A format is no guarantee you won't walk away feeling like you just wasted half an hour of your life -- it all depends on what questions get asked.
I think the bottom line is simple: The club is paying you for your time. Make it worth their while, no matter what you talk about or how your structure your presentation. The presentation is NOT about you, it's about THEM, and what they can take away from it.
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| I think this is a great topic some other points
Some of the speakers for muskies inc have to be "bugged" into speaking they really dont want to do it but because they have been so succesful people really want to hear what they are about I dont think we should expect them to take some type of speaking course we just want this opeertunity to hear them. For years I have tried to get Jason Long to speak at our chapter but hes not into public speaking but I dont care if he comes and speaks in Japanese we will hire an interpeter just to reap the benefits of his experience.
If we expect speakers to take a class like toastmasters or Dale C apart from subject dont we risk getting the same 'canned" presentation all alike..heres my introduction,, now heres my visual media presentation,,heres my joke,,heres my ending Q&A ,,I guess I enjoy the personality and spontinaity of these fishing guides.
I guess personally for me this sums it up
Person no 1 comes up to me at the dock and sez,,excuse me sir but thers a 42 incher over by that point that you might try your obvious and considerable angling skill on.
person number two comes up to me and sez "hey #######" theres a 51 incher over by that rock that looks like your bald head if your not too much of a moron and dont screw it up go try and catch it.
I definitly like 1's technique better but I still prefer the info #2 gave me
but I guess we all have our prioritys |
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| Sometimes people hear what they want to hear. I think that if we work on listening more than 80% of the time we might find the 20% that we missed to be of value.
I think its not the speaker as much as it is the student that need to work on trying to get the most out of an individual. We all have different levels of expertize from fishing to everyday life. ''If we all'' (including myself)would pay more attention to what is being said we would all walk away wiser.
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | I would then get people that are known as good speakers and good writers.
People who have done sport shows before, seminars at other establishments, schools, articles, etc....
Just don't hire anybody to speak, hire them because they know how to speak.
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Posts: 568
| First let me say this is about my expirence with musky show seminars , not MI club stuff. I'd agree with the original poster--about 50 % are terrible. I hate to say this but I don't even go to the closest show in the winter --the reasons --nothing new at all, the same people were in the same places as the first year. the same lures were for sell that could be ordered on-line or from a mag. And you had to pay to get in. The speakers seemed to be speaking to the group of anglers like they were crappie fisherman. The amount of BS is way too high. Another tip --try to be sober ! MD |
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| In regards to "Muskies Inc Club" speakers not sportshow or Tackle reatilers etc
If a long time Muskies inc club Guide or Non muskies inc Guide/Resort owner etc comes up to me and says "Wow I really had a great year with the things Im trying and on the lake Im fishing and I think that I can really give your membership some valuable info. Should I now turn him down because he dosent have the traceable "pedigree" of speaking training,known connections, and refer that to him.."Basicly in a roundabout way say your not good enough"
If we only allow 'known speakers with Known credentilas and close the door on everybody else arent we now portraying the image that we so long tried to get rid of,,an 'Elitest old boys Organization" I dont know that MI chapters want to go here |
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| Correct, Todd M and I find speakers for our Fox River Valley MI Chapter 39 club, and we need to constantly bring new people into the mix. We look to expand knowledge of different places to fish, and different techniques that are used to fish in different areas. We try to mix local area guides along with popular destination guides. The big name same old same olds are very good speakers, but new speakers also have insights to share. Some speakers are low tech and some are high tech, and that variety creates different learning and information sharing experiences. |
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | I know some people have help some semminar, with small topics, then a question type formart. Which if planned is a great idea, it is tough to speak to musky hunters, just because the vast difference in experience levels of people listening. So a speakers is wondering who he should be catering to in 1 hour. By opening the floor to listeners and asking them what they want to learn about, is giving the group listening information that they are looking for.
Troyz
Time to go hunting |
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Posts: 8848
| What are some things that speakers have done that you really liked?
What are some specific things that really turned you off?
Good/Bad/Ugly let's hear it.
BAD:
- Give the exact same seminar at a club meeting that you gave at the show. Uhhh that's great but we were all at the show, too.
- Nothing but a slideshow of all the nice fish you and your clients caught this year. Cool, so today I learned uhhh, that if I fish with you I can catch a fish and get my picture in your slideshow
GOOD:
- Explaining a specific area of a lake, how the structure lays out, when the fish usually move up on it and what presentations you successfully caught some fish on.
- Explaining how you modify some of your lures, why you do it, complete with pictures of said lures and passing them around so people can see them
UGLY:
- Showing up with video without making arrangements for a projector, running around trying to find one at the last minute when you were supposed to be speaking, only being able to wrangle one of those 13" screen/built-in VCR things, not having any audio so you had to hold your lav mike up the the crappy little speaker on the VCR, which meant the audience could either hear you or hear the audio, and only the front row could actually see the video.
Edited by esoxaddict 11/17/2006 3:32 PM
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | i guess it depends on how far they want to take their "career" ... folks like the Lindners and Bucher i will guarantee have sought out professional training in both public speaking, production, presentation and business managment. a smart guy in the boat who doesn't want to get better on the business end will be limited by definition.
surprises me a bit i guess to see people knocking education ... a convenient perspective |
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Posts: 1185
Location: Wishin I Was Fishin' | Power Points are great but don't just have a bunch of words and stand there and read it.
Donate some stuff from your sponsors for our raffles.
and something I'm not always good about...the organizer needs to contact the speaker one week before the date to finalize the details, arrange for multimedia devices, reaffirm cost and give directions.
Edited by Jomusky 11/17/2006 5:10 PM
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Posts: 663
| Some great ideas being expressed here. Thanks for the input. I'm just getting my feet wet at doing the speaking thing and my biggest dilema is how to present something different from what guys have heard a thousand times before. It reminds me of every golf magazine that I pick up that without fail has some article about how to cure your slice. Sheeesh!
Anyhow, I've had to do public speaking in my non-fishing life so that part doesn't bother me too much. I think one of the big keys that has been touched on by various posters here is how to present just the right amount of information so that you are covering a topic adequately but not boring the crowd to tears. I'm scheduled to do a presentation at a multi-species show this winter and when I asked the promoter if he had a particular area of interest he wanted me to cover the response was "how about... How to catch any species, anytime, regardless of conditions, GUARANTEED!" I guess that could be a simple one if we were allowed to use dynamite! However, I think I'll narrow it down a bit. Keep the ideas coming guys. |
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Posts: 20269
Location: oswego, il | As I stated before, I am the speaker director and myself and muskyboy scout for speakers. The responsibility rests on my shoulders to get qualified people to speak. It is my responsibility to know the presentation and cost before I decide to hire them to speak. I used the musky shows last year to get info on speakers and talk to people about speaking at our club. It is from that data of presentaion/name/price/topic/time of year that I base my decision to hire a speaker. I also discuss this info at board meetings. Sometimes I alter my decision to hire or not to hire based on feedback from other board members who have seen this person or that person speak.
Speaker fees seem to range from 150 for a local person on up to 500 dollars for top well known speakers and the top few echelon speakers, I have seen ask up to 750. INHO, I would not hire a speaker for over 300 bucks that did not use a powerpoint presentation. There would be a few exceptions to that rule for a known speaker who can do a spectacular job without that tool.
I am spending my club's money to do this job and alot of it. I need to get the best bang for the buck. More people means more at the door donations and more raffle tickets sold. We have an unbelievable amount of merchandise we raffle off each month and my job reflects on those raffle ticket sales. That translates into more money for the club, better speakers for the club, more money for programs like stocking which we are very committed to doing. |
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Posts: 32950
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | A blast from the past, the last MI Awards Banquet. Some of you old guys might remember this one.
Todd,
Your club features one of the best line-ups out there.
$750 is alot of money.
I don't use a powerpoint, I use an age old technique called 'educational lecture' style. I guess I'll forever operate in the cheap...  
I miss the International Awards Banquet.
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Posts: 20269
Location: oswego, il | Steve, when I said few exceptions, the two people that came to mind when I intentionally put that in was you and dick pearson. I only know of two speakers for sure that ask for that big sum, most of the rest are at or below 500. |
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Posts: 32950
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I was teasing ya, Todd. You do a great job selecting quality programs for your club! |
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Posts: 20269
Location: oswego, il | Steve, never took offense and we would like to have you down to speak sometime. When I did type that above though, I remembered your seminar at that one time milwaukee musky show they had in waukesha and thouroughly enjoyed it. No displys, no screens, computers or pictures, just you talking and everybody listening intently. |
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