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| There are no purists in Muskie fishing. Leave that elitist notion to the fly fishermen. No room for elitists here. You fish how you fish. Don't push your beliefs on me, I won't push mine on you. State them, OK. Let me decide whether I accept them or not.
You don't like taking pics of every fish? Fine. Don't. I do. Tell you what. I won't try to make you take a pic of every fish, if you don't try to stop me from taking my pics.
You don't like trolling? Fine. Don't. I do. I won't make you troll, don't tell me I'm wrong if I do.
You don't like more than one line per angler? Fine. I'll use whatever the law allows. I won't make you use more than one, let me do what I do.
You don't like fishing live bait? I can live with that. I won't make you fish a sucker, but let me without crying about it.
I don't like drinking much while I fish. But you may have as much as you want. Just don't push it on me. Lot's of time to drink when off the water.
I don't measure every fish, but some do. That's fine with me. You measure your fish, I'll measure mine. Or not.
Got any others? Let's get a list of your elitist peaves.
Then we'll send them to the fly fishers!
Edited by Shep 10/8/2006 4:57 PM
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Posts: 691
Location: nationwide | Shep,
Don't forget "if you say there's no fish in my lake that's fine . . . . don't fish it then".
Corey Meyer
Edited by muskymeyer 10/6/2006 3:13 PM
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| I ';.,
Edited by Sponge 2/27/2008 3:53 PM
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Posts: 8797
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Hold the tail support the belly
Hold the jaw support the belly
Vertical holds are fine
Don't remove the slime coating
Just release them in the water
Don't even net the fish
Single hooks are better
File off your barbs
Don't do this don't do that
We all want to see them swim off healthy, right?
If I see someone doing something that I feel is putting the fish in an unnecessary amount of danger (like letting it flop around in the bottom of the boat) or something that's just plain illegal or unethical I will bring it to their attention, but as long as I feel like whoever it is is at least trying to release the fish safely, I don't care if they do things differently. |
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Location: Stevens Point, Wi. | Life's too short, just relax and enjoy. Any way is better than no way. |
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| if the fish is fine and healthy and released and swims away healthy or illegal its not a problum by me what ever gets it done |
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Posts: 227
Location: Maple Grove | Spent some time in the fly fishing world in college. Small school in WI not too far from the twin cities. Got back to my 89 jeep cherokee one evening with a couple browns to throw on the grill when some other guy read me the riot act about not releasing the fish as he was loading his LL Bean gear into a "high end SUV". I took exception.
1. It was 2 of 15 I caught that night, the rest went safely back in.
2. I was in college, and boy is that one tasty cheap meal!
3. I was well with in the law
Not long after that my brother was responsible for infecting me with this sickness we call Musky Hunting. I knew from day 1 I would release every fish I caught. If another guy chooses differently and they are within the law so be it. Bottom line, I left that elitist mentality behind and have been fortunate enough to not encounter it yet in my new passion. |
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Posts: 3876
| Ha! As I was posting a response to this thread, suggesting Shep was taking a LIBERAL view on the issues, I was immediatly e-booted completely off the internet and had to re-connect again to post this. Dang, Shep, that's a pretty impressive editing measure.
I think it's interesting that you take the position, "Do what you want within the rules, but please don't legislate my vaues and hence my behaviors."
Rock on, Shepster, yer a good egg. |
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Location: Rhinelander. | you don't like tournaments, I do. I won't ask you to fish them don't tell me I should'nt. |
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Location: Wishin I Was Fishin' | Don't consider me an elitist if you see me with a fly rod and I won't judge you either. |
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Location: The Yahara Chain | When a kid catches a fish of a lifetime out of season on a sucker harness, don't tell him it doesn't count...and that he can't get a repo.
When the surface temp gets to 80 degrees don't tell me that I can't go fishing.
The repo and water temp police are just one step removed from the PETA knuckleheads. |
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Posts: 556
| Bytor - 10/7/2006 9:39 PM
When a kid catches a fish of a lifetime out of season on a sucker harness, don't tell him it doesn't count...and that he can't get a repo.
When the surface temp gets to 80 degrees don't tell me that I can't go fishing.
The repo and water temp police are just one step removed from the PETA knuckleheads. PETA= people eating tasty animals |
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Posts: 3876
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Edited by Ranger 10/8/2006 12:14 AM
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| i take a slightly different view on this issue...
i think it's absolutely fine to say to someone, (for me to say to you, or for someone to say to me) that i disagree with something you're doing, to say that i think what you're doing is wrong.
for example, i think using swallow rigs is wrong and i'm not going to shy away from saying so.
or someone might say to me that they think tournament fishing is harmful to the resource.
ok. that's ok.
however, i do think it's extremely important to voice disagreement tactfully, and to focus on the behavior and not the person. ie., "i think what you're doing is wrong" not "i think you're a bad person."
at the same time, i'm open to people disagreeing with me, and telling me such as long as they do so respectfully and can explain their reasons. then i'll listen to them. i might not change, but i will listen.
if they come at me aggressively i won't listen. there's a lesson in there somewhere...
i believe that when we praise ourselves for creating a valueless society ("i'm alright, you're alright") in which no one is allowed to disagree or to voice their opinion because it's denigrated as being judgmental, then we lose the moral compass which holds us together as a culture (or subculture, in the case of muskie fishing specifically).
having values is good, voicing them with tact is good. i WILL tell you if i think something you're doing is unethical or irresponsible, but you can count on me to do it with respect. i'm not being "elitist" if and when i do so, i'm simply being honest. |
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Location: LOTW every chance I get | Well said Lambeau! |
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Location: Maple Grove | yes, indeed. Like Shep said in the original post. "State them, OK. Let me decide whether I accept them or not."
I am always open to a conversation, but if you come at me aggresive with your input I will tune you out faster than I do a corporate trainer!
I need to get on the water! |
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Posts: 2361
| Shep - 10/6/2006 2:54 PM
There are no purists in Muskie fishing. Leave that elitist notion to the fly fishermen. No room for elitists here. You fish how you fish. Don't push your beliefs on me, I won't push mine on you. State them, OK. Let me decide whether I accept them or not.
You don't like taking pics of every fish? Fine. Don't. I do. Tell you whatt. I won't try to make you take a pic of every fish, if you don't try to stop me from taking my pics.
You don't like trolling? Fine. Don't. I do. I won't make you troll, don't tell me I'm wrong if I do.
You don't like more than on line per angler? Fine. I'll use whatever the law allows. I won't make you use more than one, let me do what I do.
You don't like fishing live bait? I can live with that. I won't make you fish a sucker, but let me without crying about it.
I don't like drinking much while I fish. But you may have as much as you want. Just don't push it on me. Lot's of time to drink when off the water.
I don't measure every fish, but some do. That's fine with me. You measure your fish, I'll measure mine. Or not.
Got any others? Let's get a list of your elitist peaves.
Then we'll send them to the fly fishers!
Shep,
I have to go with Lambeaus take on your post here. Your take seems to be that any method that is legal is fine with you, and that anyone objecting might be an elitist, though you will let them state their case?
Many things already being done and encouraged by musky fisherman would be considered to be elitist by some fisherman, ie releasing trophy, or even legal fish, fussing about single hook kill rigs(legal though they are), seasons protecting fish that are not reproducing, even though they spawn, high size limits, encouraged by us elitist musky fisherman.
The fact that we consider musky to be a GAME fish already puts them into an elite category, with elitists like us pursuing them. If they were carp, we would fish by any means conceivable, and keep them all, for any purpose we might imagine, including, fertilizing our wive's roses, and no one would care.
Most of the forward motion in musky fishing has come from some people pushing rather radical viewpoints into the public arena, and sometimes down a minority's throat(though they might recognize the value of those views and concepts later).
So, can't say I agree with you much about pushing viewpoints. I am willing to push mine regularly, and feel that this is the place they should be pushed, where they can be viewed digested and discussed. If I feel strongly about something in the fishery I am willing to speak up, pushy or not. Hope others are too.
Edited by firstsixfeet 10/7/2006 11:37 PM
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Location: The Sportsman, home, or out on the water |
today, I looked like Mr. Ted Nugent colided with Mr. Steve Heiting/ Mr. Joe Bucher, Slamr, or who the heck ever on this board! (Steve W., I omited you out of respect. lol) |
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| "If they were carp, we would fish by any means conceivable, and keep them all, for any purpose we might imagine, including, fertilizing our wive's roses, and no one would care."
No #*#*? Since when did we decide our fish, muskies, are more valuable than any other fish? By what measure?
They're all fish, muskies no better than carp than perch than suckers than bluegills. They're fish, beings alive while so are we. If you demand we pay respect, then you take it to the limit and demonstrate complete discipline by not doing ANYTHING to disturb them.
Carp are a better fish than muskies by most any measure, and maybe that's why I'm so riled up. Maybe I'm still defending Shep, I'm not sure right now.
Let's settle on this at 5:16am: Shep and CARP both require respect. |
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| Guess the original post has the ability to be read a variety of ways, but I'm in complete agreement w/ Shep; one only has to view the responses of past posts on occasion and see the attitude that is described; kinda reminds me of the time honored tale of the "Emperor's New Clothes"...not ALL peeps are tactful in their ways, and do present an elitist version of their thoughts...I don't think anyone is really being "judged", although when all one has to go by is a response or pattern of responses, then it is at times all the evidence on the table, and assumptions naturally begin to be formed...1 of 2 things happen when one sticks their neck out; either you lose yer head, or win the race... |
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Location: Rhinelander. | Shep made his point and some of you don't see what he's getting at I feel. I think and hope I do and that I state this right without offending anyone. He is just saying don't force your thoughts and feelings on others. Its not funny but actually sad as I hear other anglers bad mouth musky anglers all the time for trying to push their values onto them. I do agree with shep. Many of you look down at someone if they keep a fish, use suckers or like to troll. Its legal and if they decide to do any of those they have that right.
Its like tournament fishing as many of you are against them and many of us fish them. Its our choice and its Legal to.
Maybe some of you need to try some of these things and see if you enjoy them or not and I'm sure some of you have so no need to mention you have.
Pfeiff
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| Don Pfeiffer - 10/8/2006 7:55 AM
Shep made his point and some of you don't see what he's getting at I feel. I think and hope I do and that I state this right without offending anyone. He is just saying don't force your thoughts and feelings on others. Its not funny but actually sad as I hear other anglers bad mouth musky anglers all the time for trying to push their values onto them. I do agree with shep. Many of you look down at someone if they keep a fish, use suckers or like to troll. Its legal and if they decide to do any of those they have that right.
Its like tournament fishing as many of you are against them and many of us fish them. Its our choice and its Legal to.
Maybe some of you need to try some of these things and see if you enjoy them or not and I'm sure some of you have so no need to mention you have.
Pfeiff
Actually, I think most of us get what Shep is saying, we just don't agree fully with what he says.
I think most on this board would be willing to ban single hook rigs that were based on the square hook design, and musky swallowing, and would do it in the face of a vocal majority. I think that Muskies Inc. pushed the catch and release concept and the increased protections(size limits, bag limits, seasons)for the musky resource, and achieved their goals over at least a "reluctant" minority, but several were quite outspoken about resisting the C&R concept-and increased size limits, and this same group resisted some, not all, of the recent attempts at size increases. To totally respect Sheps view, all current regs would be left the same. He would prefer no change by pressure but it may take quite a lot of pressure to create some of the changes in the future.
Every change however is going to bump into someone's previously held beliefs, methods, viewpoints etc.. Change is not neccessarily good either, but for change to happen, somebody is going to get nudged. Hope it doesn't have to be Shep or me, but it will be somebody.
I am going to feel free to comment and push any time I feel ethical fishing behaviour is discarded in an effort to achieve whatever anglers think they might achieve by such. I don't really care what the laws say. My idea of fair chase may not be similar to others and my feelings about it are, "tough, we will both have to deal with it, and whether you like it or not, I will probably make my views known". My views on resource preservation and management are the same, as you are well familiar with my views on slot limits. I notice that you are perfectly willing to push your views on all of us about slot limits Don, and if you were actually in full agreement with Sheps statement, you would not want to rock our boat. I think it is a neccessary part of bringing the resource and its management to the full audience and interest group concerned with its enjoyment, consumption, preservation and future management. So Don, "Slot limit" us all to boredom, anger or changing size limits toward your goals, it's ok with me and I think it is important that you, the world record society, the Wisconsin size committee, and anybody else with a bug up their hiny they think important enough to push, bring it up here and present it. And feel free to push it. |
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Location: Brookfield, WI | It's my way or the highway. Fortunately, I don't have a way, so whatever your way is, is fine.
Kevin
Musky purist for life.
Edited by MuskyHopeful 10/8/2006 11:25 AM
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Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | If elitism is yelling at jerk off's trolling Vilas county lakes...then I raise my hand as an elitist. If I don't say something, its like me saying nothing and telling them its ok to do....funny how fast the lines come in and they head for launch after I say something.
If I obide by the rules, everybody should. By hearing..."mind your own business", I know I was right. |
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| I'm not talking ethics, here. None of the examples I mentioned differentiate because of ethics. I agree that the single hook kill rigs should probably be outlawed, because they kill fish. And for that reason only. Sucker fishing, by other methods, doesn't kill fish. More than one line per angler, doesn't kill fish. Trolling doesn't kill fish.
Now as to the dig on my views of celebrating a fish caught out of season, by accident. I held the same stance, whether it was an adult or a kid. Just because it was a kid doesn't make a difference. I still say it doesn't count. That's my opinion, and I'm not pushing it, merely stating it. You can disagree with my opinion, or not. But it's not the same thing. Neither were muskie fishing at the time, so it doesn't pertain to this discussion.
And Ranger, um, stop hoping I'm coming over to the left. I'm still quite conservative, and always will be. But, a politician, I am not, nor will I ever be. I'm very RIGHT about that! hehehe |
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Posts: 5874
| GMG, if you're yelling at true illegal trollers, no, that's different. I'm talking doing legal stuff here. If you observe a violation, well, then I guess it is your right, and probably your duty to say something to stop it.
Edited by Shep 10/8/2006 5:13 PM
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Posts: 171
| "they're all fish"......
True. But not all fish are created equal. Compare to birds. We shoot ducks (some of us anyway), but we protect bald eagles. Some species are more adaptable than others. I think muskies are proven to be less adaptable than carp (and pike and perch and bluegills).
(I'm no 'purist'....I caught a 22" sheepshead today and have announced it with pride. Plus they sure do put up a fight! But I'm still in awe of some of the pics on this sight. Wow!)
Best of luck to all.
Erieboy75 |
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Location: The desert | We cant shoot bald eagles?? OH man, guess I didnt have as good a weekend as I thought.
Catching a musky any time of year in my opinion should count, as long as you werent directly fishing it out of season. If I get a musky walleye fishing with an 1/8 ounce jig and 8lb test, you better believe I'm counting that fish. But like you said Shep, you are entitled to your opinion and I, mine, and I respect yours. |
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| When trolling is legal and some anglers don't think it is a good, valid or sporting method, you are indeed talking ethics. They have a different view of what is ethical in pursuit of a fish. There are several things that may be legal or very difficult to enforce that people might choose to do, that others might consider unethical. It is about ethics.
Taking pictures of fish in hot weather/hot water when the fish has absolutely nothing distinguishing about it might be considered unethical by some. It is not a purist argument, nor elitist, it does go to ethics, but your post is an interesting one, and I agree with several of your points.
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| Just to be fair wouldnt we be doing the same thing 'elitism" if we lump all fly fishermen into one catagory |
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